On ESMB and our responsibility...

[rolypolypudding]

Some, even many of you may recall when going 'in session' was a good thing,
a time to release the upset, fears, confusions and doubt.

Before you learned that your deepest feelings could be used against you, before you
learned to fool the meter, before you feared the question 'has a withhold been missed?',
you might have been happy, just that plain and simple and maybe rare feeling of happy,
to have a time that was all yours, a time you could finally express your self, and
have someone to listen, to you.

What a loss, to find that the listening was a sham, that the auditor didn't really care,
or understand, of even if they did understand, there was another goal there, the WDAH stat,
the command intention, the note under the door to route you to the registrar.

ESMB may be the only even remotely similar thing one of your fellow human beings may
have to that moment of release, of being able to itsa without invalidation or evaluation.

Don't fuck with it.

Thank you.

On a lighter note...

Fun, it's the real L12

This concludes RPP's serious moment for today.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Some, even many of you may recall when going 'in session' was a good thing, a time to release the upset, fears, confusions and doubt.

Before you learned that your deepest feelings could be used against you, before you
learned to fool the meter, before you feared the question 'has a withhold been missed?',
you might have been happy, just that plain and simple and maybe rare feeling of happy,
to have a time that was all yours, a time you could finally express your self, and
have someone to listen, to you.

What a loss, to find that the listening was a sham, that the auditor didn't really care,
or understand, of even if they did understand, there was another goal there, the WDAH stat,
the command intention, the note under the door to route you to the registrar.

ESMB may be the only even remotely similar thing one of your fellow human beings may
have to that moment of release, of being able to itsa without invalidation or evaluation.

Don't fuck with it.

Thank you.

On a lighter note...

Fun, it's the real L12

This concludes RPP's serious moment for today.

This wasn't my experience in the fz, and I doubt it was true of the tech people I knew in the Church as well. The auditors I had did care about their pcs, in fact by and large they were the most motivated people in the org to actually help others.

 

[asagai]

This wasn't my experience in the fz, and I doubt it was true of the tech people I knew in the Church as well. The auditors I had did care about their pcs, in fact by and large they were the most motivated to actually help.

When I was an auditor I cared. I had no interest in my WDAH stat, mostly never even recorded it! But I was well away from Ron's demanding stare.

It was only aftwerwards when I read Messiah or Madman and Bare Faced Messiah and things like that. that I realsed how these good intentions were so cruelly exploited by the slave-master to create his money making slave cult! I was hopelessly idealistic and stupid

 

[Carmel]

No, not so

What a loss, to find that the listening was a sham, that the auditor didn't really care,
or understand, of even if they did understand, there was another goal there, the WDAH stat,
the command intention, the note under the door to route you to the registrar.

.

God! Are you serious? I so hope that you are not!

I audited 100's/1000's of hours. I loved and cared for (to varying degrees), all of my pc's, except three who I refused to audit (and didn't continue auditing) in very short order.

The WHAH's stat was one that was never "mine" or a concern to me. And I can truely say, that I never comprimised on a C/S for a pc, that I didn't agree with - even if it was 1pm on a Thursday.

The odd c'nt who dared put a note under my door while I was auditing copped it big time. I made a point of doing the opposite to any request made in such a fashion.

I'm NOT ALONE in this . My fellow auditors at our org did the same. Amongst the insanity within the ranks, there were still those who cared and did what they would have wanted done for them - Please take that on board!

 

[Feral]

I don't believe that very many people who ever wanted to audit were short of caring or compassion. A chance at helping ones fellows was the bait on the hook. Although that integrity often got compromised and corrupted, like at flag where the auditors are plowing their Pre-OTs into the ground with endless sec-checks on six month "refreshers".

The church only got as far as it has on the backs of the beings that actually cared.

 

[Good twin]

I don't believe that very many people who ever wanted to audit were short of caring or compassion. A chance at helping ones fellows was the bait on the hook. Although that integrity often got compromised and corrupted, like at flag where the auditors are plowing their Pre-OTs into the ground with endless sec-checks on six month "refreshers".

The church only got as far as it has on the backs of the beings that actually cared.

Thanks Feral. This is a real sore spot for me. The only part that is difficult to let go of. I regret like crazy the unwitting betrayal I committed in the name of help. It doesn't matter a bit how sincere I was, or if what I did was effective or positive in some slight way. The bottom line is I led people in and gave them hope and kept that hope alive. Many are now trapped in a shocking reality. Every day I get email from my local Org showing me the latest contributors to the Ideal Org effort. It breaks my heart to see so many of the people I cared about donating hundreds of thousand of dollars that will effectively keep them living at poverty level for the rest of their lives. knowing that at least in part it is because they had wins in my auditing chair is a constant an gnawing ache. I have a hard time forgiving myself for this. ya know?

 

[Carmel]

I don't believe that very many people who ever wanted to audit were short of caring or compassion. A chance at helping ones fellows was the bait on the hook. Although that integrity often got compromised and corrupted, like at flag where the auditors are plowing their Pre-OTs into the ground with endless sec-checks on six month "refreshers".

The church only got as far as it has on the backs of the beings that actually cared.

Fuckin good point Feral! Sad that that is true!

 

[Carmel]

..

(quoted post has been deleted as offensive)

Right back atcha! As is a common saying in ANZO land - please explain!

 

[byte301]

I was an EO and I cared about the people I got in my office. I never nattered about them or devulged any of their personal information.

I felt the auditors were the most caring people in the org. Auditing isn't an easy job. I only had one auditor I didn't like in the 10 years I was in. She had an abrasive personality and I didn't get along with her. But I can't say she didn't care about her pc's.

I think we'd do well to remember that most of the individuals in $cientology are good, caring people. I don't think that most auditors take a pc into session to get the dirt on them. There are probably some that do now under orders from Davey, but they are the VERY small exception.

 

[Pitbull]

(quoted post has been deleted as offensive)

Right back atcha! As is a common saying in ANZO land - please explain!

What I meant to say, Rollypolly, is that we really care about you!
We are here to listen. To empathize. To lend our support to
others in their search to understand not only their Scientology experience,
but their ongoing personal growth.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Thanks Feral. This is a real sore spot for me. The only part that is difficult to let go of. I regret like crazy the unwitting betrayal I committed in the name of help. It doesn't matter a bit how sincere I was, or if what I did was effective or positive in some slight way. The bottom line is I led people in and gave them hope and kept that hope alive. Many are now trapped in a shocking reality.

All of this is true, nonetheless the only reason those in the Co$ are trapped is because they choose to be. ESMB, Anon, Freezone, etc., all are ways of helping people to make new choices for themselves.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

All of this is true, nonetheless the only reason those in the Co$ are trapped is because they choose to be. ESMB, Anon, Freezone, etc., all are ways of helping people to make new choices for themselves.

Mark A. Baker

Escuse me, but I don't find this a very compassionate analysis of the situation many Scn staff find themselves in.

I was lucky I didn't get trapped because my EO at the time was a *shouty bitch whom no one would have been taken in by; I was also a member of another competing spiritual group at the time (which also had cultic aspects, but that's another story). If she'd been nicer I could have gone the same way.

LRH seems to have made it deliberately hard to leave the SO once you were on staff there, so saying the staff "choose" to be trapped misses out a large part of the picture.

*She had her good qualities too, but there wasn't any way she was going to recruit people for the SO. She eventually got drummed out for being out-2D with another staff member.

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

Hi Mark

"All of this is true, nonetheless the only reason those in the Co$ are trapped is because they choose to be. ESMB, Anon, Freezone, etc., all are ways of helping people to make new choices for themselves.


Mark A. Baker"

Since so many members are "shielded" from the "other" Options, I think it fair to say, that their "choice" to be either ON PURPOSE, or other intentioned, is made with inadequate or wrong information.

For example, until a couple of years ago, I only knew that there was "on Source" or squirrel. And since I had believed that Source was the only "way out" then the choice was thusly 'management determined'.

It was only the culmination of the "outpoints", that allowed me to see "source' as unworkable.

I got out because I didn't want to contribute to something that didn't help, and in fact actually harmed.

 

[cinamingrl]

poverty

Thanks Feral. This is a real sore spot for me. The only part that is difficult to let go of. I regret like crazy the unwitting betrayal I committed in the name of help. It doesn't matter a bit how sincere I was, or if what I did was effective or positive in some slight way. The bottom line is I led people in and gave them hope and kept that hope alive. Many are now trapped in a shocking reality. Every day I get email from my local Org showing me the latest contributors to the Ideal Org effort. It breaks my heart to see so many of the people I cared about donating hundreds of thousand of dollars that will effectively keep them living at poverty level for the rest of their lives. knowing that at least in part it is because they had wins in my auditing chair is a constant an gnawing ache. I have a hard time forgiving myself for this. ya know?

This is the worst and saddest part of scientology I think....the amount of money that people spend and give. Thinking it is going to save them.

I never spent a penny of my own cash in scientology. I didn't like their greed. I could see it on the faces of certain management when they saw me walking through the door of the org. It turned me off to donating anything at all. And I would never pay for my auditing or anything else. I was full-time and as far as I was concerned, that was the exchange (since they were always talking about exchange), they needed to be auditing me if I was working for free. And I stood my ground on that.

 

[Terril park]

Thanks Feral. This is a real sore spot for me. The only part that is difficult to let go of. I regret like crazy the unwitting betrayal I committed in the name of help. It doesn't matter a bit how sincere I was, or if what I did was effective or positive in some slight way. The bottom line is I led people in and gave them hope and kept that hope alive. Many are now trapped in a shocking reality. Every day I get email from my local Org showing me the latest contributors to the Ideal Org effort. It breaks my heart to see so many of the people I cared about donating hundreds of thousand of dollars that will effectively keep them living at poverty level for the rest of their lives. knowing that at least in part it is because they had wins in my auditing chair is a constant an gnawing ache. I have a hard time forgiving myself for this. ya know?

You did good. You know it. You were betrayed!

Is there anyway you can write/mail these people and refer them to the FZ, ALan, or whatever?

 

[Good twin]

You did good. You know it. You were betrayed!

Is there anyway you can write/mail these people and refer them to the FZ, ALan, or whatever?

Yes Terril. I have been working on it. And myself. One by one just the way I found them. I have been handling on a case by case basis. I'm trying not to be authoritative or hold any fixed ideas. I just want to allow people to grow in whatever way they find that is appropriate for then as individuals. I am very glad there are options. One of which is to just say "to hell with it", and go bowling.
Flat out dissemination for FZ or Indies or Reality TV is way too similar and I am not ready for that gig by a long shot. Thanks for your support. I know you have good intentions.

 

[Terril park]

Yes Terril. I have been working on it. And myself. One by one just the way I found them. I have been handling on a case by case basis. I'm trying not to be authoritative or hold any fixed ideas. I just want to allow people to grow in whatever way they find that is appropriate for then as individuals. I am very glad there are options. One of which is to just say "to hell with it", and go bowling.
Flat out dissemination for FZ or Indies or Reality TV is way too similar and I am not ready for that gig by a long shot. Thanks for your support. I know you have good intentions.

I wasn't in fact reccomending dissem. Merely...orientation?

"to hell with it", and go bowling" works as far as I'm concerned. I was very
successful with that, though " bowling" per se wasn't my item.

However the grades are a scattergun approach to try and find people where they live and are. Telling someone to go bowling may not work
for everyone.

Its a bit like a Dof P interview. Find out what the person actually wants.
Let them know its there if they want it.

I presume those still trapped in the Church still want tech. It may be that they need to know they can get it without the COS bullshit. No hard sell, just letting them know its an option. Whatever tech, or hobbies. Most trapped in COS won't know that.

If all they wanted to do was go bowling, they're probably already doing that.

But I know from experience its a very tough job doing what you are doing. That you are even able to try shows that you are much loved.

 

[Good twin]

I wasn't in fact reccomending dissem. Merely...orientation?

"to hell with it", and go bowling" works as far as I'm concerned. I was very
successful with that, though " bowling" per se wasn't my item.

However the grades are a scattergun approach to try and find people where they live and are. Telling someone to go bowling may not work
for everyone.

Its a bit like a Dof P interview. Find out what the person actually wants.
Let them know its there if they want it.

I presume those still trapped in the Church still want tech. It may be that they need to know they can get it without the COS bullshit. No hard sell, just letting them know its an option. Whatever tech, or hobbies. Most trapped in COS won't know that.

If all they wanted to do was go bowling, they're probably already doing that.

But I know from experience its a very tough job doing what you are doing. That you are even able to try shows that you are much loved.

You amaze me Terril. For all the crap you get for just saying what you believe and trying to help others, you still stick around and say nice things to me. You have on more then one occasion said just what I needed to hear. You are a good friend. I appreciate you.
GT

 

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Hey, you guys and gals!

You amaze me Terril. For all the crap you get for just saying what you believe and trying to help others, you still stick around and say nice things to me. You have on more then one occasion said just what I needed to hear. You are a good friend. I appreciate you.
GT

Just want to say that I appreciate Terril too! Also you; Good Twin :dance2: , and many, many others as well!

So - even though I have zero reach for any of it - should anyone want to audit me or run some wild other stuff that they think is great...hell, PM me and we'll talk.

I can mock 'most anything up; and then run it like pouring shit through a tin horn.

And you think I'm kidding, don't you?

Roy, the Ep's EP

 

[Good twin]

Just want to say that I appreciate Terril too! Also you; Good Twin :dance2: , and many, many others as well!

So - even though I have zero reach for any of it - should anyone want to audit me or run some wild other stuff that they think is great...hell, PM me and we'll talk.

I can mock 'most anything up; and then run it like pouring shit through a tin horn.

And you think I'm kidding, don't you?

Roy, the Ep's EP

Nope Roy. I take you at your word.