Commander Birdsong
Crusader
very nice little piece of writing dangermouse...
reading "the master"
- Thread starter Commander Birdsong
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Commander Birdsong
Crusader
yes...
this is certainly an opinion held by many
and with a very substantial amount of eyewitness accounts to support the allegation
still there are very many highly intelligent people who are well aware genius and madness are known to dance a pas-de-deux in the human soul and we are unwilling to be blinded to the extensive genius in the life and work of a former commander of corvettes
and anderson is one of them. i was surprised when he did not receive a nomination for best director. speaking of various forms of reading, and "to read" is a verb with an endlessly rich semantic, people often try to read what the academy is saying in it's choices; "why was so-and-so overlooked? are they being snubbed? who dropped their panties to get such-and-such a nod for that lackluster job?" in this case i have to wonder if perhaps anderson's work might not have been too good to be nominated. i could see it as being seen as so great it might deemed to transcend competition...
which brings me back to the film's first two thrilling and stunning camera shots
does anyone recall the first two camera shots?
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
hello?
no one posting?
this can be a lively thread even if cmdr birdsong is the only one posting on it but it's certainly livelier if others post also
now...
does anyone recall the film's first two camera shots?
can anyone describe at least one of the film's first two camera shots?
no one posting?
this can be a lively thread even if cmdr birdsong is the only one posting on it but it's certainly livelier if others post also
now...
does anyone recall the film's first two camera shots?
can anyone describe at least one of the film's first two camera shots?
Mike Cameron
Patron
1) We start with a steady shot of the raging ocean. Greenwood's score crashes in.
2) Cut to a close-up of Freddy Quell, a navy solider in WWII. He looks out apprehensively. What he's looking at, we have no clue, and probably neither does he.
The first line of dialogue: "You know how to get rid of crabs? You gotta shave one testicle, all the crabs will go over to the other testicle. You gotta light the hair on fire on that one. When they all come scurrying out, you take an ice pick and fucking stab every single last one of them."
Last line of dialogue: "Stick it back in, it fell out."
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
thank you mike and welcome to esmb...
MissWog
Silver Meritorious Patron
It's been over a year since I saw it..soi don't remember the shots 
As for the Oscars.. PTA had some serious competition in 2013.. And I think Hollywood still wasn't ready for the movie or to acknowledge the subject matter..in a couple more years I think he would have faired better..I think an screenplay nomination would at least be in order.
As for the Oscars.. PTA had some serious competition in 2013.. And I think Hollywood still wasn't ready for the movie or to acknowledge the subject matter..in a couple more years I think he would have faired better..I think an screenplay nomination would at least be in order.
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
It's been over a year since I saw it..soi don't remember the shots
As for the Oscars.. PTA had some serious competition in 2013.. And I think Hollywood still wasn't ready for the movie or to acknowledge the subject matter..in a couple more years I think he would have faired better..I think an screenplay nomination would at least be in order.
director
screenplay
and cinematography, editing (!), costumes, art direction were all entirely plausible
but as a director, yes there's usually many very good and intriguing directorial efforts in any given year. maybe i'm just some dumb hick sitting here gollywogging but i look at what anderson does and see an answered prayer
an Answered Prayer!!!
who would give two seconds of respect to coreyden, miller or attucks as biographers of l ron hubbard?
the best you can say of their biographies is they are infinitely better than the CoS whitewash
and anderson has...
perhaps...
produced a seminal advance in the great art of Biography
i can't help but think of when marian anderson, another magnificent anderson, went to stockholm and the manager of the theatre said "her voice is too big for my house!"
i think the academy may have looked at his "MASTER!" and decided "his work is too big for our oscar"
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
well not exactly...
the first shot is of a calm (presumably) pacific from the fantail of a good-sized ship which is creating it's wake. i hitched over the bay to the old lake cinema on lake merrit in oakland for my first viewing just because they had it in 70MM as anderson intended and from the very first camera shot he BLEW ME AWAY!!!
one looks at the first shot from two perspectives and it is likely many people saw those two perspectives in the reverse order of how i saw them
and...
many others saw only one of the two perspectives
on sight i recognized the physical perspective; the ocean contiuously receding behind a moving ship. and i watched it that way for awhile and then, having smoked a doobie before the show, i looked at it from the artful perspective of a flat image on the wall; a groovy-assed abstract-impressionist mutable dreamy phantasm of an image...
now i suspect many people on viewing the film for the first time did not immediately recognize the material reality of the shot and for a few seconds or many seconds saw the flat on the wall image and then had...TA DA!... "the flash of recognition" and saw the shot from the material perspective
others might never have even recognized the material perspective and just seen the abstract image
and others might have immediately perceived the material perspective and never considered the abstract perspective
now then...
i am certain, CERTAIN mind you, that the directuh INTENDED his intelligent and curious viewers to notice and contemplate both perspectives
remember...
that opening shot is twice repeated in the body of the film. once it is duplicated and once it is first duplicated and then the camera pans upward to the horizon
the director makes it clear this is an important shot, a shot to be comtemplated. a shot so poetic endless associations may be generated from it
but, as presumptuous as it is to speak of the director's intention...
i feel confident it was his knowing intention to begin with a shot that can be viewed from two distinct perspectives
because...
he is ardent to have his intelligent viewers consider EVERYTHING in his flick from at least two distinctly different perspectives
beginning most pointedly with his profound and powerful second shot
would anyone care to theorize about the two primary perspectives from which some one can view the second shot?
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Commander Birdsong
Crusader
and if you please...
i'm sure someone can advance at least one perspective for shot two
i'm sure someone can advance at least one perspective for shot two
Mike Cameron
Patron
You make a great point. I guess I was just looking at it from my own perspective, which can be shrouded by anger at times.
Me, I look at simply as a way of introducing us to a character in a moment when he's vulnerable and just being himself. I've never been in the navy or army and have never been at sea, so I'm sure someone with that background will see it differently.
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
anyone?
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
yes...
just so...
this is the PRIMA FACIE; "on the face of it" perspective of shot two
first it is (1)technical: the auteur introduces a character. this is just short of OBNOSIS grade simplicity; it comes from a knowledge or at least a sense of movie/director tech
and (2) analytical: "vulnerable", "being himself". you look into the prima facie perspective and see and speak. another might look into the prima facie and see speak differently
(1) is pretty firm
(2) is more open and fluid
anyone care to take a wild stab at a second perspective of the second shot of anderson's astonishing masterwork?
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
sorry?
for what?
having a different point of view, a different life experience, a different set of values and evaluations than i?
would this be something for to be sorry for?
maybe sorry for looking down your nose and seeing nothing but a deluded, smelly worthless piece of shit; a lowly object of your pity? some mangy hillbilly white trash rotted with his dissolute years; a ragged bit of flotsam painfully adrift on the hard concrete of the postmodern urban hellscape?
sorry?
sorry for what?
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
and what you would say of dodd you would say of hubbard...
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
and while you think of another perspective than prima facie for shot 2, how about a tantalizing taste of coming attractions on this thread?
all you nattering nabobs whined "the master" was too gentle about the SONOFABITCH!!!
you wanted a flick that says "Scientology Kills"
the more rabid among you wanted it to scream "SCIENTOLOGY KILLS!!!"
well...
if y'all would just make use of the captain midnight secret decoder ring your high school english teachers gave you you would quickly decipher the particular scene where anderson says clearly and simply "scientology kills" only he's soto voce about it saying "hush little baby don't you cry...shhhh...scientology...shhhh...kills...daddy's gonna sing you a lullaby"
all you nattering nabobs whined "the master" was too gentle about the SONOFABITCH!!!
you wanted a flick that says "Scientology Kills"
the more rabid among you wanted it to scream "SCIENTOLOGY KILLS!!!"
well...
if y'all would just make use of the captain midnight secret decoder ring your high school english teachers gave you you would quickly decipher the particular scene where anderson says clearly and simply "scientology kills" only he's soto voce about it saying "hush little baby don't you cry...shhhh...scientology...shhhh...kills...daddy's gonna sing you a lullaby"
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
and...
i am not going to tell YOU what particular scene says simply, directly, clearly, obviously, certainly (but not undeniably. of course, the immaculate and unblemished "plausible deniability" is impeccable)...
"scientology kills"
YOU are going to tell me which particular scene says firmly "scientology kills"
i'll even give you a clue...
with sharp fierce irony it's the scene which initiates the segue away from the passage of the film where anderson pays most eloquent, poetic, dignified, elegaic, beautiful, gates of valhalla homage to the greatness of laffayette ronald hubberd...
i am not going to tell YOU what particular scene says simply, directly, clearly, obviously, certainly (but not undeniably. of course, the immaculate and unblemished "plausible deniability" is impeccable)...
"scientology kills"
YOU are going to tell me which particular scene says firmly "scientology kills"
i'll even give you a clue...
with sharp fierce irony it's the scene which initiates the segue away from the passage of the film where anderson pays most eloquent, poetic, dignified, elegaic, beautiful, gates of valhalla homage to the greatness of laffayette ronald hubberd...
Mike Cameron
Patron
This may or may not be the scene you had in mind, but I think it fits...
The scenes right after his argument with "Pig Fuck"... where we see Peggy ranting about dominating the environment and attacking enemies. Then Freddy goes and gives PF a beating. Freddy's actions, to me, were symbolic of the rage against critics that the blind faithful have. (And this segues into the Philadelphia segment...)
What's really interesting to me... Dodd disapproves of the harrassment of his critic. He says, "This is not the way... A horrible young man you are, this is acting like an animal..." To me this is PTA giving the character some humanity so we can sympathize with him. Dodd has many levels, he's not a black-and-white Hero, Anti-Hero or Villain. He's just a man, a hopelessly inquisitive man.
Most Exes probably would have written it so that Dodd approves whole-heartily, or maybe even he would have ordered Freddy to do it. But the way it's written feels much more realistic and true to life. Not true to history, mind you, history's a subject that's hard to nail down and recreate exactly.
The scenes right after his argument with "Pig Fuck"... where we see Peggy ranting about dominating the environment and attacking enemies. Then Freddy goes and gives PF a beating. Freddy's actions, to me, were symbolic of the rage against critics that the blind faithful have. (And this segues into the Philadelphia segment...)
What's really interesting to me... Dodd disapproves of the harrassment of his critic. He says, "This is not the way... A horrible young man you are, this is acting like an animal..." To me this is PTA giving the character some humanity so we can sympathize with him. Dodd has many levels, he's not a black-and-white Hero, Anti-Hero or Villain. He's just a man, a hopelessly inquisitive man.
Most Exes probably would have written it so that Dodd approves whole-heartily, or maybe even he would have ordered Freddy to do it. But the way it's written feels much more realistic and true to life. Not true to history, mind you, history's a subject that's hard to nail down and recreate exactly.
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
nice commentary...
wrong scene
wrong scene
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
howdy...
just got of san franisco's VA hospital after a week and a half. nohing serious, just some cellulitis on my leg
so anyway...
in the film's second shot anderson does in fact introduce the character of freddie quell. less obvious, though i recognized it on sight, i that he introduces his subject; l ron hubbard
a pair of eyes beneath a helmet peering over a barricade
freddie quell is always freddie quell but he does a lot of double and triple duty and this is the key especially to understanding the very beautiful and poetic metaphor woven into the opening passages...
just got of san franisco's VA hospital after a week and a half. nohing serious, just some cellulitis on my leg
so anyway...
in the film's second shot anderson does in fact introduce the character of freddie quell. less obvious, though i recognized it on sight, i that he introduces his subject; l ron hubbard
a pair of eyes beneath a helmet peering over a barricade
freddie quell is always freddie quell but he does a lot of double and triple duty and this is the key especially to understanding the very beautiful and poetic metaphor woven into the opening passages...