Restimulation on ESMB

[Vinaire]

As long as you guys cannot look at KHTK for what is, and as long as you associate it with Scientology, you guys are always going to hate me anyway, so I am not going to worry about it.

The main thing that might help you is to look at the betrayals that are sitting in your mind right now... one by one.

.

 

[RogerB]

If you want to go nuts, do what Vin says above here . . . . this is black tech he is practicing here.

It is based on a wrong indication and will only spin you in looking for wrongness, wrong whys, and the nastiest of generalities.

This is virulent nastiness he has posted above.

RogerB

 

[Alanzo]

Vinaire -

You are in some kind of a rage. It happens to all of us from time to time.

Take a break from ESMB for a while.

Chill.

 

[Gadfly]

As long as you guys cannot look at KHTK for what is, and as long as you associate it with Scientology, you guys are always going to hate me anyway, so I am not going to worry about it.

The main thing that might help you is to look at the betrayals that are sitting in your mind right now... one by one.

.

I actually looked over your stuff Vin and liked it. It has more to do with eastern practices of meditation than Scientology (as I recall - I checked it out awhile ago).

Vin, why even bother coming here?

This is a board about Scientology - and not about your theories on making a person become more aware.

Find a place on the Net, or find other people who are interested in such things, and talk to THEM.

I do post stuff about my opinions and views from time to time on "spiritual stuff", but I realized a long time ago, that only SOME have any interest in it.

In fact, I have posted recently about such things. Few attack me for it. But then, I don't attack them, and I don't try to ram it down their throats. I am "gentle" - you have not been recently.

But, this is not the place for me to post endlessly about my experiments with consciousness, meditation, Scientology alterations of my own creation, and related areas of observation. If I actually wanted to find an honest discussion about those things I would develop personal comm lines and locate areas on the Net with similar interests.

As anyone easily observes, you seem to often just SPIT OUT statements, with no supporting examples or explanation, and expect that these will be happily accepted without thought.

You speak way too often in generalities - "you guys". There are only specific instances and specific people, and the higher a person is in intelligence, the more he or she deals with and SEES the specifics and details. Lower intelligence people display endless confusion of details, and mix up all sorts of observations with other observations, resulting in vague think and constant generalizing.

There are as many different views about your KHTK stuff as there are people on this board. There is no "ESMB attitude towards Vinaire". That is only your delusion.

I got into Scientology because I was a "searcher". I was one of those types who studied astrology, Edgar Cayce, Alan Watts, Theosophy, magic, and so forth in college. I was on THAT path since High School. I was looking for the "truth". But, many people got into Scientology for other reasons. Actually, it always amazed me when involved in Scientolgy just how little experience or interest most Scientology members had in related subjects (the Occult tradition that Scientology was/is a part of - to me that is NOT a bad thing).

I doubt that many here are looking for answers of the type that Scientology pretends to provide. In that regard, there are few here who probably have any care or interest in looking at your stuff.

As I have not been here much over recent months (busy with other active interests both physical and spiritual), as a somewhat objective observer, you seem to introduce upset and interject "entheta". That is why I have labelled you before as possible "OSA". While you are probably not, and while you may actually be an ex-member in all aspects, you BEHAVE like an OSA agent at times. You display behavior that was taught in Scientology (attack, misrepresent, spit back buttons at posters based on what they post, etc). You "use" that "tech". Some see it, some don't.

Anyway, just saying.

When we talk about God, and meditation and how all of that relates to Scientology, well you and me seem to get along great. But this other stuff . . . .

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

This is getting tiresome!​

 

[Vinaire]

If you want to go nuts, do what Vin says above here . . . . this is black tech he is practicing here.

It is based on a wrong indication and will only spin you in looking for wrongness, wrong whys, and the nastiest of generalities.

This is virulent nastiness he has posted above.

RogerB

KHTK approach can never hurt anybody because one is not diving into the mind. One is simply looking at what is there.

Diving into the mind and looking for answers is what creates Dianetics and Black Dianetics.

Roger should know better than trying to freak people out.

.

 

[Sindy]

This is getting tiresome!​

 

[Veda]

-snip-

Most people on ESMB may be nice and funny, but they can't look beyond their noses. They get really upset very easily when their views are opposed. And that makes them dangerous.

-snip-

I can control their views about me easily. I can make them think positively of me; but I can make them think negatively of me also. This has been an intersting experiment.

It is interesting how gullible some people are here. Unless they learn to look I feel safe in keeping my distance from them.

-snip-

Oh. OK.

So, this is an experiment being performed by Vinaire.

Got it.

 

[Vinaire]

Dianetics, Black Dianetics, Scientology, Black Scientology, Knowledgism, Black Knowledgism... all these approaches get people to bypass the self-protective mechanism and dig into their mind. This is restimulative, dangerous and harmful.

Idenics is very safe because it is based on LOOKING, and thus, it helps people peel of the layers rather than dig into the mind... and, similarly, KHTK is very safe as it is based on LOOKING.

LOOKING and not digging should be the approach as it is very safe.

.

 

[Mystic]

As long as you guys cannot look at KHTK for what is, and as long as you associate it with Scientology, you guys are always going to hate me anyway, so I am not going to worry about it.

The main thing that might help you is to look at the betrayals that are sitting in your mind right now... one by one.

.

Vinnie honey, find out you have a chakra system and what the Rays of Divine Light are.

 

[AnonyMary]

Dianetics, Black Dianetics, Scientology, Black Scientology, Knowledgism, Black Knowledgism... all these approaches get people to bypass the self-protective mechanism and dig into their mind. This is restimulative, dangerous and harmful.

Idenics is very safe because it is based on LOOKING, and thus, it helps people peel of the layers rather than dig into the mind... and, similarly, KHTK is very safe as it is based on LOOKING.

LOOKING and not digging should be the approach as it is very safe.

.

Now, I can agree with this point about looking versus digging. Reading it prompted me to look at your blog. I read this:

KHTK 1A: Looking Introduction[Revised October 30, 2010]

This is a set of essays that have come to be known by the acronym KHTK (from the phrase “Knowing How To Know”). This is the first of the KHTK essays. It introduces LOOKING as the key to knowing how to know.

THEORY
Looking means to observe and notice things for what they are. To know something, you do not have to label it, or use words to describe it. You simply look and recognize something for what it is.

The key idea is:

LOOK AND SIMPLY OBSERVE WHAT IS THERE WITHOUT EXPECTING ANYTHING, OR ATTEMPTING TO GET AN ANSWER.

Any expectation will add extraneous thoughts to what one is looking at. Attempts to get an answer will also add extraneous interpretation to what is there. It is a common experience to have thoughts, labels, evaluations, opinions conclusions, etc., arise in the mind as one looks. When such thoughts are suppressed they color and modify our perception of what is there."..........

Why are you not applying the above to the situation here on ESMB which you feel so persecuted about? You are not applying your own tech to the situation. Seems to me that you are doing and saying everything it says not to do. You keep expecting agreement. Let it go. It works. You say so yourself in what you wrote there.

 

[Gadfly]

Vinnie honey, find out you have a chakra system and what the Rays of Divine Light are.

I got into Scn back in the 1970s, after having read a great deal about the Great White Brotherhood (Theosophy, Annie Besant, Madame Blavatsky). I especially liked the channelings of Alice A. Baily, and anyone who spends a little time reading her books can't but be amazed at the information coming from the Masters known as Hoot Koomi and DH (ascended masters supposedly living in bodies in Asia).

I like this alternative spin on Jesus, as opposed to the Christian perspective:

"Jesus Christ is known as Sananda in the inner planes. He is the Master of the sixth ray, the ray of abstract idealism and devotion, which is indigo."

Channelers are an interesting phenomena, because so often the material transmitted has NEVER been contacted in this life by the person. For example, Edgar Cayce transmitted thousands of hours of information about health, herbs and natural medicines (and much else too), information that he NEVER studied or contacted in any form during his life. He was a devout Christian, personally not believing in reincarnation, yet the channelings dicusssed reincarnation as a matter of fact.

Alice Bailey was also raised a Christian, yet "she" wrote thousands of pages on intricate Hindu-based systems and practices, concepts she never contacted at any point in her current lifetime. She maintains that an entity living in Asia actually wrote the books, and that she "stepped aside" mentally as this other being took over her body to write the material.

Anyway, the Chakra system, Kundalini Yoga, and the theories of the "Rays" were all very apparent in those subjects. I found, and still find, great attraction to the various Masters who specialize in certain of the "rays".

When I got into Scn I wondered, "where is all THAT stuff"? To me, Scientology lacked and was questionable because it entirely omitted these aspects of an understanding of the universe.

Luckily, I always kept an interest in "other practices", ending up in ethics at least once a year because of a KR from a Scientologist or auditor about my interest and involvement with these other subjects. I was stable in my interests, and I always handled THEM on it.

I have contacted some of the masters, and some of the raw energy of the various rays during controlled meditations aimed to do so. All illusion? All delusion? Maybe, but some have the view that the door to other realities and dimensions exists entirely within the (human) imagination!

As long as I don't hurt anybody, and do my best to express "love" to other beings in my daily living, to me, it matters little what I think or believe. If only others took the same approach!

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Vinaire is having a meltdown....on a chatboard.

Nothing rare or unusual here. Happens from time to time on every chatboard.

This is common. Garden variety. Sort of painful to watch it unfold as someone comes apart online over trite stuff.

The downside is the poster is remembered by other posters as more than minorly unstable and thin skinned.

In the future just try to tip toe around and not get another meltdown started -and keep the giggles in the background.

 

[Vinaire]

Vinnie honey, find out you have a chakra system and what the Rays of Divine Light are.

Mystic Sweety, why don't you help me find that out!

.

 

[Gadfly]

Now, I can agree with this point about looking versus digging. Reading it prompted me to look at your blog. I read this:

KHTK 1A: Looking Introduction[Revised October 30, 2010]

This is a set of essays that have come to be known by the acronym KHTK (from the phrase “Knowing How To Know”). This is the first of the KHTK essays. It introduces LOOKING as the key to knowing how to know.

THEORY
Looking means to observe and notice things for what they are. To know something, you do not have to label it, or use words to describe it. You simply look and recognize something for what it is.

The key idea is:

LOOK AND SIMPLY OBSERVE WHAT IS THERE WITHOUT EXPECTING ANYTHING, OR ATTEMPTING TO GET AN ANSWER.
Any expectation will add extraneous thoughts to what one is looking at. Attempts to get an answer will also add extraneous interpretation to what is there. It is a common experience to have thoughts, labels, evaluations, opinions conclusions, etc., arise in the mind as one looks. When such thoughts are suppressed they color and modify our perception of what is there."..........

Why are you not applying the above to the situation here on ESMB which you feel so persecuted about? You are not applying your own tech to the situation. Seems to me that you are doing and saying everything it says not to do. You keep expecting agreement. Let it go. It works. You say so yourself in what you wrote there.

I am responding to Vin's writing here.

I have spent many hundreds of hours in self-created meditation experiments, aimed at just "looking". Looking "in" and looking "out" (using the physical senses and other possible sensory tools not physical). For example, I have done it with a nice forest scene.

First, I notice that I tended to focus in different areas. At the tree, at a branch, at a piece of bark. I noticed that looking was not as easy as it sounded. Look at what? So, I developed a sort of ability to "back away" a bit, sort of like watching a video game, where you are there watching, yet not focusing specifically on any exact thing other than what falls within your field of vision. Or, like looking through a camera, where you see only what is in the eyepiece.

It's tricky, just being there with your eyes, as a sort of camera lens, and looking at whatever falls within the field of the eyes range. In a sense you must step back a bit from the body and body senses, and see them as part of "out there" along with whatever the sense is registering.

Second, I noticed that as I look at the tree I so often add something to the perception, such as "it is beautiful", "it is part of the cycle of life", "I am catching a moment of eternity", and so forth. I was adding "inner stuff" as I interacted with the "outer stuff".

I learned a long time ago to banish words and verbal thinking from my mind, but I was doing those things on a non-verbal level - but still doing them, copntributing to the perception in some way. For example, when any person looks at a gorgeous sunset and comments, "wow, that is beautiful", he or she is ADDING that entirely to the mix. The person is CREATING that feeling. It does not exist "out there" anywhere. In fact, if you go out in a space ship, a few thousand miles above Earth, there is no sunset to view! It only exists from this vantage point, in a body on Earth.

Third, I noticed that as I changed HOW I looked, it changed what I was looking at! (Theory of relativity applied to human awareness)

So I aimed to get rid of all these personal involvements as I looked. What is REALLY there?

When I hit moments where I took myself out of the loop entirely, well, it all just disappeared! All significance vanishes at that point.

When you take out and remove all extraneous interpretation, in other words vanquish your "viewpoint", everything goes away! Or, said another way, if a tree falls in the woods and there is nobody there to hear it, does it actually make a sound?

As I tried to explain elsewhere, as I currently see it, there is no reality or experience of reality without a viewpoint. And a viewpoint, ANY viewpoint, contains tendencies, traits, slants, opinions of various sorts, no matter how "high" or "advanced".

I came to realize that the aim to entirely vanquish the "self" or "viewpoint" was dumb. Why?

As I currently understand it, each of us are God's way of experiencing his amazing creation. Possibly, you are a part of God just as a rose petal is a part of the rose plant.

You, as a viewpoint, are part of "God" (God being simply all-that-is and the creator of all-that-is). Your job then is to become the best viewpoint that you can! Granted, slipping into nothingness is fun, beneficial and therepeutic from time to time (loosing ones personal viewpoint).

Of course, you can also do the same sort of examination internally, with ideas, feelings, body sensations, etc.

 

[Gadfly]

Mystic Sweety, why don't you help me find that out!

.

Vin, what is this game that you constantly play where you spit back in like manner whatever the poster originally says?

Mystic says, "Vin honey", and you spin it and send it back as "Mystic Sweety".

Anyone can look over your posts and see that you do that often, both with structure and content of posts.

What is interesting is that this is a textbook OSA trick. OSA staff are taught how to do just that when "handling" the Internet and "enemies"! The aim is to introvert and cave-in. Slimy motives indeed.

Either you are unaware that you do it, or you are intending to do it.

I don't expect any sort of answer. I am simply posting this to bring it to the attention of other observant viewers.

And, what is the purpose of your post? Do you really give a shit about finding out about the Chakras or Rays? And, as any slightly bright person already knows, the only valuable learning comes from personal interest and involvement with some subject.

I see so many of your posts simply as "throwing in a wrench".

I don't really care why, because I consider it useless behavior.

 

[Mystic]

I got into Scn back in the 1970s, after having read a great deal about the Great White Brotherhood (Theosophy, Annie Besant, Madame Blavatsky). I especially liked the channelings of Alice A. Baily, and anyone who spends a little time reading her books can't but be amazed at the information coming from the Masters known as Hoot Koomi and DH (ascended masters supposedly living in bodies in Asia).

I like this alternative spin on Jesus, as opposed to the Christian perspective:

"Jesus Christ is known as Sananda in the inner planes. He is the Master of the sixth ray, the ray of abstract idealism and devotion, which is indigo."

Channelers are an interesting phenomena, because so often the material transmitted has NEVER been contacted in this life by the person. For example, Edgar Cayce transmitted thousands of hours of information about health, herbs and natural medicines (and much else too), information that he NEVER studied or contacted in any form during his life. He was a devout Christian, personally not believing in reincarnation, yet the channelings dicusssed reincarnation as a matter of fact.

Alice Bailey was also raised a Christian, yet "she" wrote thousands of pages on intricate Hindu-based systems and practices, concepts she never contacted at any point in her current lifetime. She maintains that an entity living in Asia actually wrote the books, and that she "stepped aside" mentally as this other being took over her body to write the material.

Anyway, the Chakra system, Kundalini Yoga, and the theories of the "Rays" were all very apparent in those subjects. I found, and still find, great attraction to the various Masters who specialize in certain of the "rays".

When I got into Scn I wondered, "where is all THAT stuff"? To me, Scientology lacked and was questionable because it entirely omitted these aspects of an understanding of the universe.

Luckily, I always kept an interest in "other practices", ending up in ethics at least once a year because of a KR from a Scientologist or auditor about my interest and involvement with these other subjects. I was stable in my interests, and I always handled THEM on it.

I have contacted some of the masters, and some of the raw energy of the various rays during controlled meditations aimed to do so. All illusion? All delusion? Maybe, but some have the view that the door to other realities and dimensions exists entirely within the (human) imagination!

As long as I don't hurt anybody, and do my best to express "love" to other beings in my daily living, to me, it matters little what I think or believe. If only others took the same approach!

When I was doing the so-called "OT levels" at AOLA in the 70s I expected some of this about chakras, Divine Light, Ascended Masters, Enlightenment, Divine Revelation, etc., to show up from Hubbard....

Of course it never happened as it was one of the purposes of the Hubbard-entity to NOT present this information. It was decades later after I had found the end of that fake "bridge" and began to meditate in a rather classical Buddha fashion that all this began to present itself to me.

The Ascended Master Alice was channeling, Kuthumi (Kut Humi), is the present active name of the being from history, Pythagoras. One of Alice's main contacts was the Master Djwhal Khul, often called "The Tibetan". (I find it really a giggle that the pronunciation of 'Djwhal Khul" is Do-all Cool.)

The first time I experience a "Kundalini blowout" I was sitting in a restaurant in the Joshua Tree area of California. Yeow! It didn't come to me as "Kundalini" but as "The Fountain of Hermes".

 

[Vinaire]

Vinaire -

You are in some kind of a rage. It happens to all of us from time to time.

Take a break from ESMB for a while.

Chill.

Alanzo, You are OK. I am OK.

Simple looking will dissolve all this restimulation for anyone. This restimulation was there before Scientology. It did not get addressed, instead got boosted up in Scientology, and it is now going on and on, on ESMB.

But an end can be put to this restimulation by simple looking, and by stopping to dig into the mind.

Everything will be fine. Everyone will be fine.

.

 

[FoTi]

When I was doing the so-called "OT levels" at AOLA in the 70s I expected some of this about chakras, Divine Light, Ascended Masters, Enlightenment, Divine Revelation, etc., to show up from Hubbard....

Of course it never happened as it was one of the purposes of the Hubbard-entity to NOT present this information. It was decades later after I had found the end of that fake "bridge" and began to meditate in a rather classical Buddha fashion that all this began to present itself to me.

The Ascended Master Alice was channeling, Kuthumi (Kut Humi), is the present active name of the being from history, Pythagoras. One of Alice's main contacts was the Master Djwhal Khul, often called "The Tibetan". (I find it really a giggle that the pronunciation of 'Djwhal Khul" is Do-all Cool.)

The first time I experience a "Kundalini blowout" I was sitting in a restaurant in the Joshua Tree area of California. Yeow! It didn't come to me as "Kundalini" but as "The Fountain of Hermes".

What is a Kundalini Blowout?

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Alanzo, You are OK. I am OK.

Simple looking will dissolve all this restimulation for anyone. This restimulation was there before Scientology. It did not get addressed, instead got boosted up in Scientology, and it is now going on and on, on ESMB.

But an end can be put to this restimulation by simple looking, and by stopping to dig into the mind.

Everything will be fine. Everyone will be fine.

.

Yes vinnie this little meltdown you are having will soon pass.