Scientologist attacking other scientologists

[Pheryn]

As far as perceiving silver cords, or beams of light or energy connecting people, auras, etc., there are many different cultures and traditions which teach about such things...so there is something very creative in our brains which allows us to "see" things apart from or different than "ordinary" reality. Ron didn't invent or improve on any of this. He did use it to enslave people.

Leland, it's fairly common for average everyday folks to occasionally have some visual hallucinations, due to all sorts of reasons. Excitement, lack of sleep, stress, low blood sugar, wishful thinking, on and on...We seem to be prone to it as a species! It's okay if it happened or happens to you. The MEANING you attach or associate with these experiences is what may either help or harm you! That's where you must be careful, and monitor your thoughts about the "experience" (or perception), a bit.

Here are some examples of phenomena that many different people have been curious about and wanted to explore. I'm sure there is a WEALTH of writing on the Internet about doing "spiritual" or "psychic" defense or self protection. I encourage you to read up about it Leland, and to experiment with practicing any of it which resonates with you. Bubble of white light, spiritual shield or armor, whatever is pleasant for you, a totem animal fighting for you, your ancestors surrounding you with hugs and love, whatever... Use it! You'll be taking back more of your power, and that is an important aspect to "peeling your Scientological Onion". NO ONE has any more control over your mind or your experiences than YOU do! Wish you all the best as you learn more about how creative our minds really are!

http://www.heartmath.org/templates/ihm/articles/infographic/2013/mysteries-of-the-heart/index.php

http://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-91/The-7-Chakras-for-Beginners.html

http://www.livescience.com/27978-astral-projection.html

http://www.psychicsuniverse.com/art...ing-spiritual-life/silver-cord-what-it-and-do

(I could go on, but you'll have fun exploring on your own!)

And if you have time on your hands, take a look at these two threads here on ESMB :

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?25973-Are-Theosophy-and-Rudolf-Steiner-Ron-s-Sources

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?24303-Walpurgisnacht-Witches-Night-Origins-of-Scientology

Forum seems to be a little derpy at the moment. So, if I 'unthanked' your post I apologize. xD

Anywho, I loved this post and I completely agree. But, I did want to add a little extra emphasis on the possible physical causes of visual disturbances. Can't hurt to get checked out to be sure. Personally, I see streams of light (multi-color)/beams/sparkles/flashes on a fairly regular basis. Although, not as much these days as a few years ago. I saw a doctor and we discovered that the things I was seeing were Auras. Little warning bells of a neurological event to follow. In my case, it would either be a migraine or a seizure and the auras could occur well in advance of the actual event. So, always better to be safe than sorry and investigate every angle just to be sure. Leave no stone unturned!

Just my .02

 

[ThetanExterior]

This thread has stirred-up a memory of some OT8s I knew in the UK.

There was a married couple who were both OT8 and "taking on the MEST universe and winning", or so they were telling everyone who would listen.

They were buying old properties, renovating them and selling for a profit. They asked me for a sizeable loan that they would repay in about four months.

There was no problem with repayment, they said. They had properties worth about half a million pounds and they also were expecting to receive money from another OT8 who owed them a sizeable amount. This money would be received before my loan was due so they would be able to repay me using that money even without selling their properties.

And...... these two people were OT8!!!! So how could it go wrong?

I lent them the money and felt I was doing something good for mankind because they would use my money to make more money and would spend that on Scientology. It would be win, win,

Long story short. In the next few months the property market collapsed and the other OT8 also failed to repay their loan to these two OT8s. Therefore they couldn't repay me.

They also owed over half a million pounds to various banks plus huge amounts of money to other Scientologists who had also lent them money and who now had problems getting up the Bridge because they hadn't been repaid.

This was a huge flap in the UK Scientology world and it was caused by these super duper OT8s.

In my experience as an OT5 and from my knowledge of people who are OT7 and OT8 I would say being "OT" is no different to being an average person and if you believe they can affect you with thought then you are granting them too much beingness (as they say in Scientology).

 

[Leland]

Thankyou Sweetness and light and George Layton for your concerns and suggestions.

I have not been hanging around with any Scamologists for over 13 years now. And just came here to ESMB earlier this year.

As far as the suggestions to protect myself....I tried all sort of things. I tried a couple times to get some help....from others (back a decade ago)

I basically did what I could

Different sorts of attacks occurred.....which I don't really want to talk about now....or here on ESMB in public.

But basically the attacks altered me.....both physically and mentally and spiritually.

When this first started to happen....13 years ago....I had some major suicidal thoughts......but didn't try it.

I was not able to sleep for about 10 years.....

I did eventually see a Phychiatrist......out of immediate need.......several years ago....

I did try some medication for awhile......and was able to sleep.

I am not on medication now....and don't think there is any suitable.....

But am able to sleep......somewhat better now.

I believe that I am being attacked pretty much everyday......So decided to Protest Scientology....and did so by going to Flag and protesting there.

So many different types of attacks have occurred over that last 13 years....I couldn't list them all here.....I have dozens of note books where I tried to keep track of what was happening, over the years.

Basically, now, I am being "blown up" from the inside out. over and over.

The attacks shifted from being outside of me.......ie, coming from a different location than myself, to coming from inside my "space." (so to speak ) This makes then much harder for me to deal with....and do anything about.

My attackers moved into my space. It became very confusing....to me.

It is a very debilitating experience.....physically and emotionally and mentally draining.....not to mention spiritually torturous.

I have not been able to work...or hold a job for 12 years. (besides a few things I was able to do....such as take care of my mother, in her 90's until she passed away.)

I was lucky to have a little money to live on.....but that will run out soon.

Anyway.....ESMB has helped some....but in other ways it has not.

But glad you are all here fighting and sharing your thoughts and info about the fight against Scam Orgs....of scientology.

 

[Pheryn]

This thread has stirred-up a memory of some OT8s I knew in the UK.

There was a married couple who were both OT8 and "taking on the MEST universe and winning", or so they were telling everyone who would listen.

They were buying old properties, renovating them and selling for a profit. They asked me for a sizeable loan that they would repay in about four months.

There was no problem with repayment, they said. They had properties worth about half a million pounds and they also were expecting to receive money from another OT8 who owed them a sizeable amount. This money would be received before my loan was due so they would be able to repay me using that money even without selling their properties.

And...... these two people were OT8!!!! So how could it go wrong?

I lent them the money and felt I was doing something good for mankind because they would use my money to make more money and would spend that on Scientology. It would be win, win,

Long story short. In the next few months the property market collapsed and the other OT8 also failed to repay their loan to these two OT8s. Therefore they couldn't repay me.

They also owed over half a million pounds to various banks plus huge amounts of money to other Scientologists who had also lent them money and who now had problems getting up the Bridge because they hadn't been repaid.

This was a huge flap in the UK Scientology world and it was caused by these super duper OT8s.

In my experience as an OT5 and from my knowledge of people who are OT7 and OT8 I would say being "OT" is no different to being an average person and if you believe they can affect you with thought then you are granting them too much beingness (as they say in Scientology).

Oh geesh. Sadly, it's very typical. I have to say though, if they were really 'taking on the MEST universe and winning' they wouldn't need a loan now would they? Never loan an OT --or Scientologist,period-- money seems to be the golden rule. Good grief, Scientologists really get screwed no matter what, huh? If it isn't the Co$ taking em for every dime they have it's their 'friends'.

 

[Leland]

This thread has stirred-up a memory of some OT8s I knew in the UK.

There was a married couple who were both OT8 and "taking on the MEST universe and winning", or so they were telling everyone who would listen.

They were buying old properties, renovating them and selling for a profit. They asked me for a sizeable loan that they would repay in about four months.

There was no problem with repayment, they said. They had properties worth about half a million pounds and they also were expecting to receive money from another OT8 who owed them a sizeable amount. This money would be received before my loan was due so they would be able to repay me using that money even without selling their properties.

And...... these two people were OT8!!!! So how could it go wrong?

I lent them the money and felt I was doing something good for mankind because they would use my money to make more money and would spend that on Scientology. It would be win, win,

Long story short. In the next few months the property market collapsed and the other OT8 also failed to repay their loan to these two OT8s. Therefore they couldn't repay me.

They also owed over half a million pounds to various banks plus huge amounts of money to other Scientologists who had also lent them money and who now had problems getting up the Bridge because they hadn't been repaid.

This was a huge flap in the UK Scientology world and it was caused by these super duper OT8s.

In my experience as an OT5 and from my knowledge of people who are OT7 and OT8 I would say being "OT" is no different to being an average person and if you believe they can affect you with thought then you are granting them too much beingness (as they say in Scientology).

Great story, thanks

I agree....Scientologist should be known as "committing financial irregularities" Scientologist love to do weird things with money. Their ideas of what to do with money would certainly not pass the "Prudent Man" test. (a legal term)

I hope you eventually got your money back....That is a lot of dough....

 

[shanic89]

I was not able to sleep for about 10 years.....

I did eventually see a Phychiatrist......out of immediate need.......several years ago....

I did try some medication for awhile......and was able to sleep.

I am not on medication now....and don't think there is any suitable.....

But am able to sleep......somewhat better now.

Hello Leland.

Sleep deprivation can do some awesomely scary stuff to the human mind. I would urge you to continue to see a psychiatrist if you could, just the act of talking to and having someone listen to problems can be incredibly helpful. Sometimes we need to say allowed what we are thinking to help us work through things and gather feedback on those thoughts from a professional, someone independent from our everyday life. If by chance you have been prescribed medication you should continue to take it, even if you feel there is no need anymore, you also have the option to have your medication reviewed if you feel it has some adverse effect on you, but it is wise to continue with it.

I have enjoyed reading this thread, there are some well reasoned polite replies, Jesus I might just have been getting ready to send out a cyber hug, I may be ill.

 

[Leland]

Yes Sleep Depravation is a terrible thing....it is just awful. And agree....it really affects a persons mind and actions.

I think it a terrible thing that scientology staff....are sleep deprived in anyway or amount.

 

[Pheryn]

Yes Sleep Depravation is a terrible thing....it is just awful. And agree....it really affects a persons mind and actions.

I think it a terrible thing that scientology staff....are sleep deprived in anyway or amount.

Yes, it's absolutely obscene. It's all by design. Keeps the S.O. nice and compliant. Break em down and then mold em into what you want. Just like 'libs' the sleep deprivation is abit of a carrot on a stick. If I just get through this 19 hour day and make this quota I'll get to sleep and have 6 hours off and all to myself...in 2 weeks. They rarely or never get it of course, but, it's the promise.

 

[Helena Handbasket]

I had to leave scientology because some within the hierarchy of the cult spiritually attacked me.

Some here, may laugh at this.

IMO, due to OT 7......this spiritual attacking is possible.

AS AN EXAMPLE: (but not why I left the cult)

I was hanging out with a friend one day, a well known Field Auditor and C/S in Los Angeles.

He had been on OT 7 for awhile....(years).

We were at his new apartment, in the Valley.....and he stated that he had to go "into session." He proceeded to go upstairs to do a session.

I remained downstairs....and hung out.

Shortly there after....I perceived a "beam" come down at an angle, from upstairs....and "fish" around in my space......"find" something.....and "altered it."

I won't go into details about what exactly happened to me. But of course, I thought my friend upstairs had done this.

Yes, it is quite possible that he was the source of that beam.

On the OT levels, it's not just about your own case any more. There is a vast "common case" that surrounds the planet and impinges on everyone. In particular, there are specialized entities called "three-way (and more) monitors" that connect people together. So he when he addresses his own upper-level case he can easily find an entity that you're connected to too.

I thought OT 7 and 8 were all about BTs?

I can't speak about the church's OT 8 but Solo NOTs does attempt to find and send away as many BTs as possible. Again, it's not like everyone has "their own" BTs.

Not that I know much about this person...or have read much about what he went through.....BUT

Ken Ogger, if I am not mistake, did write that he was attacked ... .

Ken told me he was attacked by having BTs "cast in" to him. This is called "black NOTs" (although I prefer the term "reverse NOTs") and is being used within the church to punish it's enemies.

Part of this plan was to implant the command to commit suicide. (His death was some years after the initial attack.) He was also made to feel very uncomfortable, in such a way that would drive anyone to think of suicide as a possible form of relief.

Sure its possible.

But this started in the Summer of 2001.....I was fine until then.

And it has gotten worse....not better.

It's possible they've continued to push malevolent entities onto you. Once they have a toehold, it's easier to add more. The only thing I can recommend is Excalibur, which can be described as "NOTs with something extra". This something extra keeps your NOTs case from coming back.

Helena

 

[Leland]

Yes, it is quite possible that he was the source of that beam.

On the OT levels, it's not just about your own case any more. There is a vast "common case" that surrounds the planet and impinges on everyone. In particular, there are specialized entities called "three-way (and more) monitors" that connect people together. So he when he addresses his own upper-level case he can easily find an entity that you're connected to too.


I can't speak about the church's OT 8 but Solo NOTs does attempt to find and send away as many BTs as possible. Again, it's not like everyone has "their own" BTs.


Ken told me he was attacked by having BTs "cast in" to him. This is called "black NOTs" (although I prefer the term "reverse NOTs") and is being used within the church to punish it's enemies.

Part of this plan was to implant the command to commit suicide. (His death was some years after the initial attack.) He was also made to feel very uncomfortable, in such a way that would drive anyone to think of suicide as a possible form of relief.


It's possible they've continued to push malevolent entities onto you. Once they have a toehold, it's easier to add more. The only thing I can recommend is Excalibur, which can be described as "NOTs with something extra". This something extra keeps your NOTs case from coming back.

Helena

Thanks so much Helena. I've tried to stay away from all things "scientological".....but might have to open that door again.....and perhaps address it that way. I did do some things on my own....in regards to this ....some worked some didn't.

It an overview.....of the whole situation....I think "they" have harmed themselves much more....by doing this...than they have harmed me....But of that, I am not sure yet. I do believe that "they" do not understand the damage they have done to themselves..... AND perhaps due to their scientology indoctrination...actually CANNOT conceive of the damage they have sustained themselves....as they are not aware of that part of their beingness. Which I believe is an error of OT 6, 7 and 8.....and perhaps even lower OT levels.....Perhaps all the OT Levels.

 

[Demented LRH]

It is my opinion that there is a Secret Cult,,,,,within the Cult of Scientology.IMO, one of the avenues of attack, that this secret group, within the C of $ uses.....is to attack one's sexuality.For me.....as a heterosexual man.....that was to try to "spiritually sodomize" me....And or shove stuff "down my throat," as in some sort of spiritual " falacio."Another avenue of attack.....was to try to get me, as a spiritual being to "eat."IMO....this Secret Cult within the Cult of Scientology......"thinks" that there can ONLY be one "Man" or "Male Figure" within Scientoloty.AND that all others.....must therefore, not be heterosexual males.....but rather homosexual males....or women.

When I was moving my ass through EPF, so to speak, 20 guys used to sleep in the same room. Now, two of my EPF peers were saying that every night a strange figure would come through the locked dorm door and just stand motionless in the middle of the room. They were very sacred of this being, and dubbed it OT. I asked them to wake me up upon its arrival. They did wake me up, but I saw nothing. They were pointing at the empty space in front of me and saying, “He is here”. Then they told me that the being went to the corridor through the door. I checked the corridor, but saw nothing again. Perhaps, they felt they were telepathically sodomized, as you put it. But, being impervious to the telepathic influences, I felt nothing.

 

[RogerB]

If you look at the old reality scale, (I think it was that scale) It talks about lines and stuff. possibly you were just perceiving a line. Example - a friend of mine told me about being on a plane and she began seeing silver colored lines between the people on the planes - I always wondered what it was she saw, then while on the BC I read the scale and realized that was what she saw. My reality is this: There is the actual reality which consists of what the body can see and what the spirit can see. The later is greater in terms of being able to see wavelengths beyond what a body can. The body, because it is mest, and when one is being a body seems more real. Or shall we say physical. Then there is the scientology reality ( and each other religion / belief system has one too) with it's scrambled truth and lies, BT's and Hubbard's SF ideas, conjectures and mind control. Perhaps they overlap in what you perceived? Dunno.

Once, years ago in the mid sixties, I was on staff, and there was staff meeting about stats and production. The person running the event was an old SH OT VII( not sure how much goals listing etc she had gotten) any way, she asked all of us to think about clearing our city - in my mind a consideration popped up about how it was impossible - and I felt /perceived someone reach into my mental space and take the consideration away saying "you don't need that any more". The applause in the room increased suddenly, and I thought that whoever did it, did it to all of us more or less simultaneously.

So, things like that make me wonder: What really works and what doesn't in scientology?

Mimsey

Yes . . . Mimsey is on the ball here.

Alan Walter wrote that we have three levels of case to handle: spiritual case, mental case, and physical universe/bodily case.

They each process a little differently. And one can cause oneself difficulty if you process either of them wrongly with a tech that belongs to a different level/type of case.

I and others pursuing research on this have found what Alan wrote to be correct.

R

 

[Jump]

I don't think going back to anything scientological is a good idea.

Try some other ideas in this thread .. taking the medication, getting decent sleep, and a great one maybe in a different thread was helping other people. Could you teach classes on your various artworks?

I also agree that talking about these experiences is a good thing, but I do think they are a form of hallucination that will fade like a bad dream if you decide to put them behind you and move forward to other productive and enjoyable pursuits.

​

 

[WildKat]

I was a NOTS auditor and CS for many years. I audited and C/Sed people on the levels that deal with BTs and Clusters. I believed in it and thought that it was a workable technology. We used to handle BTs and Clusters in the body, on the body, and various distances from the body. You could put your attention on someone far away and locate one of these BTs and then handle it until it realized something and left.

The main thing here in my opinion is that agreement with L Ron Hubbard's delusion that all of these body thetans and clusters exist in the first place makes you susceptible to being the effect of them. One can mock up an infinity of BTs and Clusters. You can imagine them or mock them up, grant "beingness" to them, agree with Hubbard and all of the OTs that they exist, and you will then become effect of it all.

Voodoo in Haiti works in much the same way. The Haitians believe in it and are in agreement with it so when someone puts a curse on them, creates a doll in their likeness, and then sticks pins in it the person goes effect. If one were to make this doll in my likeness and stuck pins in it nothing would happen because I don't agree with it and don't believe in Voodoo.

Having been an Oat Tee for a very long time I have concluded that it is all false data and a fraud that L Ron Hubbard got us to agree with.

About four years ago I started to look at this in a new unit of time and realized that it was all bullshit. I don't believe in BTs and Clusters. I did believe in it at one time and because of that I could be affected by things such as you have mentioned in your post. However if you or another were to try and create an effect on me now by focusing your attention on BTs and Clusters in my space it would have absolutely no effect on me or the body. The reason I am no longer affected is that factually BTs and Clusters don't exist and I am no longer in agreement with Hubbard's statements about them.

By you believing in them and assigning truth to this lie you are bringing about a persistence that will continue until you realize you have been tricked, lied to, and coerced into believing in this fraud called Scientology and that includes BTs and Clusters.

Thank you Dean! This is just the best response to this whole subject. I think it bears repeating.

And I'll add my own input.

When someone is leaving the cult and suffering lack of sleep and all the stresses that go along with that, the mind can get pretty mixed up. I went through this personally. I was not sleeping well, not eating, and I imagined all sorts of crazy stuff that was "really real". My friends thought I was nuts, and when I look back on it, I WAS nuts!

But to go attributing any weird stuff to "OT's messing with you" is just to give more power to the whole sick mess.

My advice, get away from it. Do whatever you need to do to sleep (a Benadryl 4 hours before bed does it for me). Eat well. Get your focus on something else. Work on getting a life and stop obsessing on the "power of OT's".

There are none.

There is, however, hypnosis and the power of suggestion.

 

[DeeAnna]

Oh, Leland, so sorry to read of your distress! And it sure sounds like you have been doing everything you can on your own to try to combat this. Many people, when they have what seems to be an insurmountable problem, and they have been unable to solve it on their own, do indeed seek outside help. You may well be at that point. Since you already have some experience with seeing a psychiatrist, would you consider being seen once again?

The thing I like about psychiatrists - as opposed to psychologists - is that they are a medical doctor who then went on for more years of training. So they are capable of assessing not only what is going on with the mind, but also with the physical body.

As was pointed out in several posts, there can be a number of physiological problems that can alter our thinking processes. Especially as we get older. As a simple example, things like how we metabolize glucose can change. And metabolic changes can certainly have an effect on the brain and its function.

Do you have a physician whom you trust? Have you given any thought to having a thorough physical examination?

About five years ago, we had a case in my own family where a younger woman - late thirties - was evidencing what seemed to be a personality change. Unlike her prior personality, she had become quite short-tempered and even seemingly hostile at time. To make a long story short, she had a brain tumor. Thankfully it was benign and it was successfully removed.

I am not writing this to scare you, Leland. I just want to point out that there could be physiological reasons for your distress and that it is always good to rule out physical causes first!

 

[renegade]

I think that some of us go thru stuff like this and it is just part of the process of healing. Once you get closer to the end of the tunnel, there will be light and you'll feel better.

I believe that people who use their abilities in destructive ways, lose them quickly. Hope that helps.

 

[Free Being Me]

I can only reiterate what others have shared. Go see a medical doctor for a full check up, including a review of your diet, sleeping patterns and if need be seek out some counseling, Leland. Decompressing from $cientology brings out many emotional and psychological repressions. It took me years once finally away from $cientology and $cientologists to start reintegrating myself, much like reformatting a computer without any instructions. The residuals you sense and feel from the cult are there deliberately from Elcon misleading you into questioning your sanity and health in strange ways. A parting gift from a sociopath.

Be patient and gentle with yourself, you deserve it.

 

[Enthetan]

I'm sure there is a whole host of reasons why DM behaves in the manner that he does. It is my understanding that he's behaved in this way his entire life, he just has power now which seems to have magnified his existing behavior. Hate to over-simplify here, but, I think at it's core it boils down to his own insecurities and projecting them onto others.

The assumption here is that the reason why a person acts aggressively and cruelly towards others because he is insecure.

There are people out there who like being cruel and aggressive. Who feel pleasure in doing bad things to others.

In less "enlightened" times, this inclination was called "evil". But now we have been taught that there is no evil in the world (except for racist/sexist/homophobic/conservatives), just poor misunderstood people who need understanding and to be made to feel secure, understood, and loved, at which point they will become nice and share cookies with you.

 

[arcxcauseblows]

surprised this thread got many replies...

I realize what an insane joke these things sound like and i agree but they do happen to me so I'll describe it for s&g's, maybe it's just lack of sleep or food alergies, who f'ing knows

the sensations i get are never visual or have color, they're what I'd compare to how it feels outside before a storm, the atmosphere, the barometric pressure, stillness in the air from no wind, an almost static electricity feeling, or emotional pressure when a room gets emotional at a funeral or after a verbal fight, or music concert, or the presence or aura a celebrity has, or a bad cop, or whoever, it's very subtle, it sometimes has forms of a sphere emanating from a person or building

i don't pay attention to it, doesn't happen that often, kind of a curiosity or an occasional first world problem

when it does happen it makes me pause a bit because even though it's not solid or visual it's a pretty strong obvious sensation, only a few of these times do I highly suspect someone knowingly caused it to happen because of the circumstances of the situation and the timing of the sensation, one time it made me say things I didn't think, others it was like a ball of pressure gently pushing me away physically, or just a ripple like wave passing by

this would sometimes happen before I'd heard of scientology so i don't suspect this was conditioned or suggested on me from my time in the church

 

[Anonycat]

<snip>
I in no way think that OT 7's "auditiing" can "bring down the Berlin Wall" of some such nonsense. But I do think, that they can attack SOME individuals and or manipulate some individuals..on a personal level, spiritually, adversely........ And this must be stopped.

This is troubling news. I hope you work thorough it quickly and successfully. Best of luck, Leland.