Scientology and Agression

[paul.spiritualquest]

I had a realization today regarding agressions and Scientology.

The point being the aims above the means. If you have the right to do anything as you are clearing the planet agression is at the order of the day.

I´m not talking necessarily about the OSA agressions, legal prosecution, and the other kind. Not about the hierarchy and how it is carried through. I´m talking about the much more subtle and constant level of agression kept inside the group.

It´s like a picking order, coming from the BIG HEN, LRH, DM to the people below, it picks the next hen on the row, and so down. Agression is a big part of the whole picture.

Think it over. The many times one has received agression without reason. And think over, how many times one created agression without reason. In the end, we were the SUPER GUYS, clearing the planet, weren´t we? I bet it almost never, but just on the extreme cases, read on a meter.

This is the stuff, the Rinder´s, Rathbun´s and so on, should be clearing first in their own universe. I´m myself making a retrospective of the instances, were I simply acted agressively out of the old justified paradigma of "agression" is ok, if the aims justify it, and how it destroyed my relationships and the existing love underneath. Is something very subtle, but I perceive it was a cancer I lived in.

I believe now that we contaminate the common human realm with negative thoughts and agression. Mental agression is no less contaminating than physical agression.

How far is the topic of Scientology inherently related to this underlying constant agression? What´s your experience? What´s your perception on this?

 

[paul.spiritualquest]

Scientology and Agression, part II

But Agression is not only the action, it is also thought itself BEFORE the action.

"This guy is so PTS". "He/She is so downtone". "He is a degraded being, he left the SO". "He is in doubt, per policy". "He can´t see". This and that.

Doesn´t this pollute the mental space of humanity? Doesn´t this constant AGRESSION of judging come back to one in some other or a very similar form?

So, think of AGRESSION, as ACTIONS, and the undercurrent of THOUGHTS within the group, in the Scientology companies, families, friendships, staff and SO?

Can there be true friendship with so much agression underneath? Can there be true confidence?

 

[Gadfly]

True!

The "aggression", as you call it, comes from the extreme pressure coming down the "command channels" (your "pecking order"). The FORCE and DEMAND, solely based on Hubbard's policies on executives and "product officering", is extreme in Scientology. It often manifests as anger and antagonism. THis attitude of relentless, unreasonable, persisting, Tone 40 DEMAND for PRODUCTION is based on numerous specific LRH policies.

I always disliked that about the official Church organization. THAT aspect was always clearly visible to me, from the early 1970s right up until around the turn of the century, when I stopped having anything to do with the imbeciles.

It is nearly impossible to have ANY empathy or compoassion for ones fellow man within such an environment of PRESSURE and frantic lemming-like production behavior.

The demand for products is CONSTANT. The pressure on staff is brutal. It is NOT a nice place to be.

The justification for such extreme behavior stems from the basic beliefs embodied in KSW. Within the Scientology framework, KSW "data" is where the notion of "the ends justify the means" directly comes from.

 

[paul.spiritualquest]

Pressure

Fully agree Gadfly,

only wanted to make the point, that Agression is deeper rooted than just administratively, but in the JUDGING system itself. The whole system is very judging, and this subtle Agression, besides the administrative one, shouldn´t be taken out of the picture either.

 

[Kathy (ImOut)]

But Agression is not only the action, it is also thought itself BEFORE the action.

"This guy is so PTS". "He/She is so downtone". "He is a degraded being, he left the SO". "He is in doubt, per policy". "He can´t see". This and that.

Doesn´t this pollute the mental space of humanity? Doesn´t this constant AGRESSION of judging come back to one in some other or a very similar form?

So, think of AGRESSION, as ACTIONS, and the undercurrent of THOUGHTS within the group, in the Scientology companies, families, friendships, staff and SO?

Can there be true friendship with so much agression underneath? Can there be true confidence?

Very thought provoking. To me it aligns with critical thought - not the LRH definition - but just thinking critically instead of with empathy.

Remember if a person was PTS how you would shun them. As if it were contagious?

 

[paul.spiritualquest]

Hi Kathy

Well, PTSness WAS CONTAGIOUS, in the sense, that "errors" ocurred around this people, so one became very ALERT. It was almost a self-fullfilling prophecy!! One was so much with the idea that somebody is PTS, that one was waiting only for the confirmation after the fact, that this person WAS PTS.

Two things were achieved:

1. The Scientology Paradigm was CONFIRMED. "Oh, yes, see he was PTS." I was right (very EGO confirming) and the Scientology paradigm was confrimed. (This second part being quitely confirmed.

2. SEPARATION
You were separated from your fellow man, it was not including, but excluding.

 

[freethinker]

True!

.

It is nearly impossible to have ANY empathy or compoassion for ones fellow man within such an environment of PRESSURE and frantic lemming-like production behavior.
QOUTE]

I think the above nails it in all situations Gadfly. A high pressure environment brings out 1.5 mentality anywhere.

 

[Kathy (ImOut)]

Well, PTSness WAS CONTAGIOUS, in the sense, that "errors" ocurred around this people, so one became very ALERT. It was almost a self-fullfilling prophecy!! One was so much with the idea that somebody is PTS, that one was waiting only for the confirmation after the fact, that this person WAS PTS.

Two things were achieved:

1. The Scientology Paradigm was CONFIRMED. "Oh, yes, see he was PTS." I was right (very EGO confirming) and the Scientology paradigm was confrimed. (This second part being quitely confirmed.

2. SEPARATION
You were separated from your fellow man, it was not including, but excluding.

Per LRH tech, yes, it was contagious. But since I've been out, I've never caught a cold or anything from people that were sick (PTSness). But I remember treating PTS people like lepers. And your original post got me thinking about all that. That's all.

 

[Telepathetic]

Hey paul.spiritualquest!

You bring up a good point here. I ,for one, was an angry hateful bastard while on staff and even though I pretended to be otherwise in front of the "public," I felt nothing but contempt for them and those who were not helping "clear" this planet.

Of course there were days when I didn't feel this way. But, as mentioned before on a prior post, the environment within the "church" made it difficult to act in a decent and reasonable manner. As you know, being reasonable was a no,no in that loony bin.

Hey, I see that you're fairly new here. Tell us your story, if you care to of course.

TP

 

[paul.spiritualquest]

Hey paul.spiritualquest!

You bring up a good point here. I ,for one, was an angry hateful bastard while on staff and even though I pretended to be otherwise in front of the "public," I felt nothing but contempt for them and those who were not helping "clear" this planet.

Of course there were days when I didn't feel this way. But, as mentioned before on a prior post, the environment within the "church" made it difficult to act in a decent and reasonable manner. As you know, being reasonable was a no,no in that loony bin.

Hey, I see that you're fairly new here. Tell us your story, if you care to of course.

TP

I still have connections to people "inside" and for another personal reason I can´t tell yet, but my story is definitely interesting and long.

I took over the "identity"-valence of a bit of a bastard over to business, and had quite a few problems with that. I´m not blaming the church or elron for that, they didn´t notice they were being mean, me neither.

 

[Gottabrain]

Spot on, Paul.

Scientology is a cult of exclusion of those perceived as "lesser beings". It is using the human flaw of pride to its full blindness of the value of others and intentionally making less of them and degrading them for the purpose of domination and feeding that perceived superiority. The "they are not like us, we are better" excuse is the same justification for war. A soldier can kill a "gook", but not a mate of the same ethnic background fighting by his side in the same unit.

The dehumanising of others by referring to them as "wogs" and "SPs" justifies these vicious, aggressive actions.

 

[Boojuum]

Great Thread

As a result of the COS, I embraced aggression as a useful thought and feeling. I nursed and exercised my aggressive compulsions throughout my Scio experience. Like the Evil Emperor in Star Wars, it was a lusty, powerful feeling to express anger. I was part of something that demanded control over any problem. The agressive nature was not justified, it was encouraged.

Then, on one of my frequent trips to ethics, I'd have to hide my aggression and become the servant until I once again could express my anger with a deep sense of righteousness.

Coming to terms with this aggression has led me away from the teachings of LRH. It's odd now that I think of it. In all the books, I can't think of LRH writing much about how being nasty is a good thing. In practice, going into rages was common in any COS setting.

It was nuts and it's taken me a long time to come to terms with my aggression. It's dramatically better than it was.

I've come to realize that aggression is a partner of very selfish people who are typically protected by an exulted position that affords them some narcissism. I can't count the number of people who probably still harbor ill will toward me from all the anger I unleashed, not the least of whom were my family.

It's getting better.

 

[Telepathetic]

I still have connections to people "inside" and for another personal reason I can´t tell yet, but my story is definitely interesting and long.

I took over the "identity"-valence of a bit of a bastard over to business, and had quite a few problems with that. I´m not blaming the church or elron for that, they didn´t notice they were being mean, me neither.

So, you became a hard nose "product officer" bait and badgering your subalterns. I know...we did some crazy things while being members of that mind fucking place.

 

[Telepathetic]

I understand, I also have family members and friends who are very much inside the rabbit's hole.

I'm just glad you're out and can again put to use the"gray stuff" up there.:wink2:

TP

 

[FinallyFree]

Paul; while I was on staff I considered it more "being at cause' and "making it go right" but I can definitely see the aggression. I was good at it. I did a lot of yelling, threatening pushing in my time for sure.

You take no sleep, very little and poor food and add the pressures, demands, quotas, OW’s, e-meter checks, ethics handlings, the mantras they make up to keep you going "like only big beings can cause effects", etc. and you pour on the desperation you start to develop while on staff and the whole part about it being wrong to be that aggressive as a general rule goes out the window. Aggression is used as a tool for which has many purposes in scientology.

It is just another control mechanism. Control you - into aggression - so that you can in turn use your aggression to controls others and get things done. It trickles down.

You find out very quickly, after getting a ‘real’ job, that it is just not that serious. You also learn that the ‘aggression tool’ does not work outside of scientology.

 

[Wisened One]

Paul; while I was on staff I considered it more "being at cause' and "making it go right" but I can definitely see the aggression. I was good at it. I did a lot of yelling, threatening pushing in my time for sure.

You take no sleep, very little and poor food and add the pressures, demands, quotas, OW’s, e-meter checks, ethics handlings, the mantras they make up to keep you going "like only big beings can cause effects", etc. and you pour on the desperation you start to develop while on staff and the whole part about it being wrong to be that aggressive as a general rule goes out the window. Aggression is used as a tool for which has many purposes in scientology.

It is just another control mechanism. Control you - into aggression - so that you can in turn use your aggression to controls others and get things done. It trickles down.

You find out very quickly, after getting a ‘real’ job, that it is just not that serious. You also learn that the ‘aggression tool’ does not work outside of scientology.

GOOD points, FF, GOOD Points! I, myself while I TRIED to be 'aggressive' was never really able to pull it off. I was always told I was too 'sweetness and light' had 'non-confront of necessity-level' had 'non-confront of evil' was too 'theetie-wheetie' etc, etc. (Guess that's why I never held any high exec posts, eh? ). I always had high stats and got things done, tho. Just in different ways rather than by cutthroat agressive ways. More subtle, sly, cunning, sneaky, coy ways, sometimes.

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

If you weren't throwing people under the bus, you weren't being promoted. For the most part anyways

 

[Gottabrain]

Paul; while I was on staff I considered it more "being at cause' and "making it go right" but I can definitely see the aggression. I was good at it. I did a lot of yelling, threatening pushing in my time for sure.

You take no sleep, very little and poor food and add the pressures, demands, quotas, OW’s, e-meter checks, ethics handlings, the mantras they make up to keep you going "like only big beings can cause effects", etc. and you pour on the desperation you start to develop while on staff and the whole part about it being wrong to be that aggressive as a general rule goes out the window. Aggression is used as a tool for which has many purposes in scientology.

It is just another control mechanism. Control you - into aggression - so that you can in turn use your aggression to controls others and get things done. It trickles down.

You find out very quickly, after getting a ‘real’ job, that it is just not that serious. You also learn that the ‘aggression tool’ does not work outside of scientology.

Awesome post. Especially that last bit.

You're absolutely right. Aggression does NOT work outside Scientology! It makes enemies and even your friends will fear you. Fear and aggression only work as tools for cults - Scilo has it down to a science.

It took me YEARS to get rid of my aggressive way of talking, acting and treating others that I had "learned" in the Sea Org. This was one of the most difficult and painful parts of my "de-brainwashing" and joining the real world.

To find out how incredibly NICE people are outside of Scientology was a real mind blower. To discover they were better than Scientologists, had more love, humility, understanding and compassion than egotistic Scientologists, brought back my own humility and shame for having ever believed otherwise.

 

[tiptoethrutheminefield]

Finally someone brings this up

Anyone who's interested in this topic should read IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING ,about covert aggression. Many, many people play the game of life (or whatever it is!) for power. Period. They ARE aggressive and their aggression takes many open and hidden forms.

Are these types attracted to cults? I think they can be found anywhere. But to argue, as some here seem to do, that everybody who goes into Scientology is an idealist is pretty difficult, given the behavior of the organization as a whole. And, having been in it, I think we need to take a look at ourselves. It might have some relevance to the question:

Where do we go from here? Meaning, in our own lives and as people who have special knowledge about a social problem. What is our obligation, if any?

 

[Telepathetic]

Anyone who's interested in this topic should read IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING ,about covert aggression. Many, many people play the game of life (or whatever it is!) for power. Period. They ARE aggressive and their aggression takes many open and hidden forms.

Are these types attracted to cults? I think they can be found anywhere. But to argue, as some here seem to do, that everybody who goes into Scientology is an idealist is pretty difficult, given the behavior of the organization as a whole. And, having been in it, I think we need to take a look at ourselves. It might have some relevance to the question:

Where do we go from here? Meaning, in our own lives and as people who have special knowledge about a social problem. What is our obligation, if any?

The question to which I have no answer for but have asked myself often since I left.

TP