Scientology explained

[lotus]

You know, once or twice a year someone comes by with a special message. Remember Kat/e? I honestly think those two could make a connection.

lol

Don't call the devil - please give us a break

What is missing here is a div 6 :confused2: so $cientologist can practice on raw meat!

 

[George Layton]

George, you have got things mashed up horribly. yes I have had a lot of personal gain from doing Scientology the way I did it. And yes, many many people were messed up doing Scientology the way they did it. My way of doing it is in no way a "purified form". It's just the way I found I could get good results for me and others, and it is very much a work in progress.

Everybody certainly does have the freedom to choose. In no way am I lessening that right. Where/how do you imagine that I am?

I look at the way the guys here say they experienced Scientology and I look at Jason Beghe's description of what he experienced and I see clearly that that is not the Scientology I did. What he and many on this board have experienced is the bastardized remnant form of the subject the the CofS in its ignorance is promoting as the real thing. And mush of this bastardized form is what Hubbard himself promoted while in his senile dotage.

So I say Hey, that's not what Scientology is or was ever meant to be. That's not what it needs to be. It can be done differently.

Do you have a problem with me doing that?

Not as long as you only do it to yourself.

 

[Anonycat]

The vague shadow of Hubbard's scientology is the garbage that the CofS has been promoting these last 20 or 30 years. The really good stuff ended in the late 1970s.

I was there. And it was the same shit, just a different color. That was real cult scientology. 57 senses of perfect memory for 4 quadrillion years. Power over MEST. No glasses. Telekinesis. Leaving your body with full control of time, space, location, and with 57 senses, all perfectly memorized just like the past 4 quadrillion years. Increase one point of IQ for every hour of auditing. Become Homo Novis, and return to your Wizard-like and ancient power. That includes the ability to create things, even thetans and universes. Was that "the really good stuff"? Seriously?

 

[degraded being]

DB, that's a load of really weak fluff you have there. Come up with something better.

Does that mean that you cannot deal with the contradiction between your assertions and the logical implications of them?

 

[Anonycat]

Anonycat, you asked me this:

Hubbard's 'Suppressive Person' doctrine, in that any person that is perceived to impede — directly or indirectly — the expansion of Scientology is seen as 'criminal,' with no regard of how honorable are their motivations. If someone criticizes some intrinsically harmful Scientology practices, this person becomes a 'Suppressive Person'.

In Scientology doctrine, criticism of Scientology doctrine is a high crime. By its creator, you should be destroyed, and the sooner the better.

How do you reckon with that?



And I answered you this:

Quote Originally Posted by Leon-2 View Post
hey, I work with the parts of Scientology that make sense to me. No ways will I take on and use the bits that don't, no matter if LRH in his holy exalted state says I must. I do what I do, not what someone tells me to do. And I hope that you follow the same policy in what you do.

So . . . what's your problem?

I reckon this answers you exactly with how I reckon with that.

And I'm not about top blow my gaskets. Keep the stuff coming - it's turning out into a great new year so far.

Okay, so if I'm understanding the bob-and-weave, you're saying that you take what you want to from the cult classes, and the writings of Source. And nothing else matters to you.

 

[DoneDeal]

I was there. And it was the same shit, just a different color. That was real cult scientology. 57 senses of perfect memory for 4 quadrillion years. Power over MEST. No glasses. Telekinesis. Leaving your body with full control of time, space, location, and with 57 senses, all perfectly memorized just like the past 4 quadrillion years. Increase one point of IQ for every hour of auditing. Become Homo Novis, and return to your Wizard-like and ancient power. That includes the ability to create things, even thetans and universes. Was that "the really good stuff"? Seriously?

I liked the severe reality adjustments. Cults are fun.

 

[Bill]

So quite obviously he himself didn't know what a Clear was. Nor how to recognise one. Like I said earlier - it [Clear] is undefinable.

LOLWUT!?

That has got to be the absolutely best cop-out I have ever heard from a Scientologist. "Clear is undefinable". Fantastic!

Attaining an undefinable state is right up there with erasing non-existent things and removing non-existent beings. If, instead of Scientology, you did absolutely nothing, you would get the exact same result -- you would still not have those non-existent "engrams", you would still not have those non-existent "body thetans" and you would still have attained an "undefinable" state.

You really are doing an excellent job of explaining Scientology. I couldn't do better myself.

 

[Operating DB]

Just a random thought but sort of on topic, maybe.

Recently I found myself thinking that given that the tech is oh so powerful and stuff why didn't Hubbard or someone else go to where Xenu is locked up in that mountain and handle all of his evil purposes, out-ethics, overts, ser facs, implants, etc. Just get him on up the effing Bridge? What then? Would OT3 need to be revised? Why isn't Xenu himself addressed directly by pre-OT's on OT3? If Xenu went clear and OT would he end up being an asset to this sector of the galaxy instead of a liability?

(Now, I'm waiting for someone to claim that they already audited Xenu to clear....LOL)

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

..

Originally Posted by Leon-2
...OT means "can do". You're as OT as you "can do". It has never meant anything else.

--snipped--

If someone does question you, or raise doubts, you can create a definition afterword that removes their objection. You know, you really are turning me around here. I can see the tech really works.

If you do have to define a term, keep it very vague, to keep lots of wiggle room.

Perfectly vague. Well done. It means nothing at all. There is a slight problem that even non-OTs 'can do' things, but still, it is vague and open to interpretation.
...unless of course you are starting your own religion.

PROBLEM: If the definition of OT is "can do", then Charles Manson is an OT because he can do terrorism and murders.

BRIGHT IDEA TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM: Scientologists can re-re-define OT as "Can do ethical things".

NEW TROUBLING PROBLEM: Ron Hubbard (the most ethical being in the universe) was a pathological liar, terrorist and sociopath who was a one-man crime wave for 36 years.

NEW BRIGHT IDEA TO SOLVE THE NEW TROUBLING PROBLEM: Re-re-re-define "OT" in a way that everyone can agree, which will make the state of OT a reality. For example, tell people that the new definition of OT is: "CAN OR CANNOT DO". That way, whether a Scientologist succeeds or fails, they will always show demonstrate themselves to be "OT" which is good for PR.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Leon,

If scientology were actually just about the tek it would have ceased to exist years ago because these days, as with everything, there are better alternatives that don't involve weird beliefs and a whole new language.

Scientology isn't just about the tek though, it has cult glue running through it ready to entrap a person from the day they set foot in the door and (as you well know) most of us "idiots" were caught up in it at a very young age and for that I feel very sincere compassion. People in general lose more than they gain and sometimes their lives are completely changed as a direct result.

There is nothing "spiritual" about scientology and it is almost laughable that anyone could still believe that there is (or ever was).

You do come here to sneer and laugh at us "losers" ... even in your OP you just had to add the bolded line below.

Posted by Leon.

OK, So I have a reputation here of being outside of the mainstream of thought on this board. Whereas most others have "left Scientology" - left it but unable to let go of it -

Do you also frequent other boards where people have been conned and are now laughing, chatting, occasionally snarling and deconstructing to "help" them by telling them they were/are idiots and pointing out that you were ever so clever because you escaped with the rent money ... or do you just hang on this one?

I understand that you managed to avoid the traps and I envy you for it ... but what is it that you want here from us today ... a medal?

 

[Balthasar]

Mine in red to bring * historical input in the information



I am saying this because this comes up in every 2nd or thirs post I am expose to.
If Hubbard were a genius\scientist\spiritually advanced being, why would he bothered screaming to fearfull entities he wanted to explode with a super high voltage e-meter when already half dead ??? He cared until his last breath about $$$$$cientology and that was what his life was dedicated to.

In the wog world, it is called a severe psychosis, and a sad fear of the disturbed being approaching death. Normal beings ussually find the courage to get through it , with normal fear, and ability to give up when they ensured to keep a peacefull mind and heart.


* may be considered as historical facts as corroborated by Kima and Sarge
Correct me if I am wrong!

Psychosis or not, disembodied entities exist and that's not only Hubbard who says so. The problem Hubbard had was that he opened his 'can of worms' and had not the means to deal with.

What you are perceiving through your eyes is the physical frequency of your body and therfore you perceive what you are tuned into. On the other side one can basically tune out of that physical plane and perceive alternative dimesions occupying the same space. Actually it can scare your shit out of you if you are not prepared for it. That's nothing to do with body thetans. Hubbard mis-interpreted what he was perceiving.

 

[JustSheila]

If Hubbard were a con why would he have bothered auditing himself even when already half dead?

He was overcome with dementia in his last years and ended up a horrible, screaming, out-of-control, nasty mess and a maniac. Talk about justice! In the end, he was so crazed, he believed his own bullshit - and even that didn't help him, only made him worse.

You already have the testimonies in Wright's book (have you read it?). That's about everyone who was there with him. Marty knows and he talked about it, too.

But oh wait! There's one more person who was there at the end:

Jesse Prince

Lucky me, I heard the details from him personally. I'm not saying a word.

Wait till you read his book. (You might just wake up out of this trance yet!)

 

[Bill]

The problem Hubbard had was that he ...

I can't count the number of times some wannabe guru/Hubbard has started some sentence with that phrase. It's the message they want others to have about themselves: "Hubbard had some good ideas but he was wrong about ... Now, I've figured out what the correct thing is..." They always speak in absolutes: "This is true". "This is fact". "This is what the correct thing is". No proof. No verification. Just another belief being stated as fact.

God! So many people have figured out where Hubbard has "gone wrong" and now it's all good - if only you listen to this guy...

Thanks, I'll pass.

 

[Leon-2]

Not as long as you only do it to yourself.

Well if they ask me to audit them why shouldn't I do so?

 

[Leon-2]

Does that mean that you cannot deal with the contradiction between your assertions and the logical implications of them?

OK so assume that I am thick, because I truly do not get what you are trying to get across to me. Explain it more simply.

And BTW, the topic is not me, it is Scientology.

 

[Leon-2]

LOLWUT!?

That has got to be the absolutely best cop-out I have ever heard from a Scientologist. "Clear is undefinable". Fantastic!

Logically, you must have reached this exalted state or you would not know what "Clear" was. Congratulations on your attainment of an undefined state. Wow!

Attaining an undefinable state is right up there with erasing non-existent things and removing non-existent beings. If, instead of Scientology, you did absolutely nothing, you would get the exact same result -- you would still not have those non-existent "engrams", you would still not have those non-existent "body thetans" and you would still have attained an "undefinable" state.

You really are doing an excellent job of explaining Scientology. I couldn't do better myself.

You must be feeling like a five-dimensional pretzel by now. What on earth are you trying to say?

 

[Leon-2]

Just a random thought but sort of on topic, maybe.

Recently I found myself thinking that given that the tech is oh so powerful and stuff why didn't Hubbard or someone else go to where Xenu is locked up in that mountain and handle all of his evil purposes, out-ethics, overts, ser facs, implants, etc. Just get him on up the effing Bridge? What then? Would OT3 need to be revised? Why isn't Xenu himself addressed directly by pre-OT's on OT3? If Xenu went clear and OT would he end up being an asset to this sector of the galaxy instead of a liability?

(Now, I'm waiting for someone to claim that they already audited Xenu to clear....LOL)

well, maybe. I don't know.

 

[Balthasar]

addition to my previous post:

there is 2nd possibility that Hubbard mis-assigned something else. Now the following is my interpretation so don't try to kill me if you disagree.

I found that the body's cellular structure is matched by tiny 'thought thingies'. It appears to me that each cell has a spiritual or mental counter part. And these are interconnected and 'comunicate' to a certain degree with other body areas and their spirit counterparts. For this reason I find it not ideal, perhaps even dangerous, keeping on addressing one's body when solo auditing. I don't do solo auditing anymore since decades but when I did, I avoided addressing something on my body. Well, with the exception of OT3 where it was required to do so. OT3 doesn't go very deep so it doesn't matter. However, after OT3 I never interferred with cells. I didn't read this, I didn't study this anywhere and nobody told me to do it that way. I just observed that cells would react and so I kept away from auditing them.

Hubbard may have done it differently. I think he messed around too much with his body. That screwed him up.

 

[George Layton]

Well if they ask me to audit them why shouldn't I do so?

Because you don't know what state of mind your bringing them to.

Because the reason they believe they need auditing is they have been lied to.

Because your auditing might be coming from the vanity of the mind.

Because even though a person might want auditing it could possibly harm them further.

Because you might be wrong about having never been fooled by the mechanics of scientology and you need more help than those asking you for vanity.

Because it's not your place to save anyone from themselves.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Posted by Leon (OP).

OK, So I have a reputation here of being outside of the mainstream of thought on this board. Whereas most others have "left Scientology" - left it but unable to let go of it - I still openly declare that I am still very much a Scientologist. Not in the narrow sense advocated by the CofS but in a much broader sense, encompassing the entire context of Scientology as well.

Anyway, as my 2015 New Year opening gambit, I have decided to provide a question and answer service. If there is any aspect of Hubbardian Scientology that makes no sense to you or seems not to fit in with the rest of it the I will gladly explain it to you as best I can in plain English.

Equally if your question is about something which is a product of Hubbard's or the CofS's having other fish to fry then I will say so openly.

As an aside, what has really prompted me to start this thread - I had reason yesterday to re-listen to Jason Beghe's interview with that guy - the "show me a fucking OT" interview, and I spotted that most of the questions he was stuck on had quite straightforward answers which I would have handled him on right there when they came up - had I been in the Org there. But the guys who handled him were such morons that they stuffed it up.

So ask away. I will answer. What do you want to know?

OK so assume that I am thick, because I truly do not get what you are trying to get across to me. Explain it more simply.

And BTW, the topic is not me, it is Scientology.

Of course the topic isn't you Leon, perish the thought ... it's about us and what a cretinous bunch of stupid, ungrateful whiners we are.