Scientology is all bad

[Panda Termint]

I have read the thread. What's the problem? Just clarify it. One or two sentences?

What is it you would like me to clarify for your benefit?

 

[Boomima]

It seems that once you have been a Scientologist, you can never end a relationship, unfriend on Facebook, refuse a communication or ban a troublemaker because it's disconnection. It seems that everyone else in the world is still afforded that right, but when an Ex does it, it's called *disconnection*. It's ridiculous.

I think the greatest sign of not being a Scientologist any longer may be when you don't view everything in connection to Scn in one way or another. (Every jerk is not OSA.) There has been more than once I've wanted to reply to a thread here with "That's not Scientology; you are just being a jerk." I spent some time reading that drama and to be honest, the people I know who moderate message boards would have banned the lot long before you did. I don't know the entire story but they were disruptive, disrespectful, and rude.


I can guarantee that if you were an asshat in Professor Zinn's classes at Boston University, you would be disconnected from your seat and security checked right out the door. The answer to Scientology's thought police is not tone policing and unlimited amounts of patience for bad behavior.

 

[degraded being]

What is it you would like me to clarify for your benefit?

Who is it that violates board rules on politeness when posting to/about Mark Baker to an extent that astounds you in how it is tolerated?

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

How would you expalin the fact that Zinj's wife is in on staff, but he was not disconnected from her? I am waiting for your explanation. <snip>

Dox Plox

How about this for a "conspiracy theory" -- Zinj wants to shut down this website by forcing Emma into early retirement with his endless attacks on her. <snip>

You know that for a fact? OK, prove it. Even if he is, the only way this Board goes down is if the Mods and Us don't tend to our Business at hand. We Got great Mods and Great Folks and lots of Important Business to tend to...and it aint OSAOSAOSAOSAOSA witch hunts.

Wouldn't OSA benefit from that?

Osa definitely benefits if Folks here go runnin' off in unfounded, undocumented and fallacious OSAOSAOSAOSA witch hunts instead of tending to the good works that are routinely, day in and day out, rendered and done on this board.

Emma knows that. Emma's turning the Board over to others and it will continue.

My position re: Zinj and and support Emma and this Board is very, very clear and your welcome to go do a search of my Posts and read them.

You achieved one thing with your post -- now I want to fuck Zinj up so badly that I might go for it even if I'll be getting no help from anyone.

Go for it. I can't stop you. It's a free country.

Peace.

Face

 

[Panda Termint]

Who is it that violates board rules on politeness when posting to/about Mark Baker to an extent that astounds you in how it is tolerated?

Specifics? I wrote the post for Readers here and it's about personal attacks on a fellow ESMBer. I have little tolerance for intolerance!

I've said what I'm gonna say about it. I'm not going to name names, if I did that I'd probably just end up doing the very thing I'm speaking out against. If you really want to know the specifics of who did what, you'll just have to read a few of the threads where Mark Baker is being ridiculed and dog-piled and work it out for yourself. :confused2:

I hate it when someone arrives after the party is all over and then asks people to start it all up again so that they can party too. You should have arrived when the party was in full swing. Now, it's all over and you're just gonna have to make your own fun.

The end.

 

[Claire Swazey]

I think you might mean it's not odd behavior given past behavior. That's a different thing than a "critic of scientology" who devotes much of his time to criticising ESMBers and other critics of scientology. Surely, that's odd?

Illogical, yes. Odd, no.

I'll explain:

Scn didn't really teach me anywhere near as much of human nature as I thought. Not the way talking to my husband and coworkers have. For whatever reason. Anyway, for a long long time I'd hear about something weird or something horrible someone did- I like true crime stuff sometimes- and I'd talk to John and I'd say "Jesus. Why would..." and I'd be really wigged out, you know? And John would say "don't expect it to make sense. " and he'd often explain that the person in the news story was a nut. Crazy.

After a while I learned to stop freaking out about people like Casey Anthony or why Anne Heche had that weird meltdown or whatever. I'd be like, oh, I see. It doesn't make any sense. It never will make any sense. It's craziness. And I noticed that there's way more of it than one might think.

So, no, it's not odd, Panda, cuz a lot of people are really odd. Really really odd. But illogical? Yeah. And dumb. And destructive. And all that.

 

[Claire Swazey]

There's no nice way to say it.

People who, decades after leaving Scientology, still identify themselves as Scientologists, have been damaged by Scientology.

On a Message Board where most people are seeking to recover from Scientology, they - despite any PR and schmoozing skills - serve mainly as sources of confusion.

Yet, these Scientologists need our help too.

The difficulty is in how help them, while also lessening the harm they may do to others.

Bullshit.

My husband is an Indie Scientologist and he's about ten thousand times more sensible than a lot of people here I could name.

So are some friends of mine who also are Indies.

 

[Claire Swazey]

Why the hell should Face, or anyone else who got that 'outing', interfering crap go "back channel"? Is that what Terril was doing? trying to drive someone back channel. Sounds to me like trying to back someone into an alley where the damage being done will not be seen publicly. I seem to recall Terril's off-board and back channel interactions being used by him to claim friendship and affinity with a certain poster. That poster then had to come out and let people know how Terril was not a friend and actually disliked just so that the poster was not turned into a piece of fiction. ....a piece of fiction which served Terril.

I didn't say that face or anyone else should. I said "might be helpful".

We all have our own decisions to make in accordance with our internal dictates and our comfort zone(s), as the case may be.

 

[Panda Termint]

Illogical, yes. Odd, no.

<snip....>.

One Spock's "illogical" is another Kirk's "odd". Thanks for the response.

 

[Claire Swazey]

I read some of that nonsense. Here's what I got from his FB group - "Emma and Panda are big meanies and I am not inviting them to my birthday party!" Maybe there's some insight there but I'm not willing to delve any deeper. I don't get why Clare seems to be giving them a bit of wiggle room when they are far more harsh than anyone is to either Mark or Terrill.

Huh? What "wiggle room" did I give them?

Classes in M3 word clearing available upon request for those who may need it...

 

[I told you I was trouble]

This is actually a very healthy sign of healing taking place, and that folks getting back to "normal" social discourse, and feeling freer to speak their minds and be "critical" of each other and moving further out and away from the valence of "being" a Scientologist (and of speaking as if from a certain level on that blasted tone scale..)

Just trust me on this... it may seem counter-productive, but it actually is a good sign of folks recovering their authentic feelings, independent minds and freedom to speak.

:surprise1:


You reckon?

Thank goodness for that ... I thought I was getting worse and was about to chuck myself under a bus.

 

[guanoloco]

I don't understand this comment, can you expand?

Just noticing similarities. ESMB reserves the right to excommunicate those who break the rules.

It's not that the rules are unjust or anything merely that I noticed the similarities of wanting to not be isolated and what threatens isolation.

That's all.

 

[Emma]

Just noticing similarities. ESMB reserves the right to excommunicate those who break the rules.

It's not that the rules are unjust or anything merely that I noticed the similarities of wanting to not be isolated and what threatens isolation.

That's all.

Yeah ESMB reserves the right but very rarely bans anyone who "breaks the rules". You basically have to be a complete douche to get banned. There is a big difference.

Giant douches will eventually be kicked out of most groups...except a group formed to accommodate giant douches where the majority of the members are themselves giant douches. I've seen such a group & they all seem to be perfectly happy participating in their douchbaggery together.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Bullshit.

My husband is an Indie Scientologist and he's about ten thousand times more sensible than a lot of people here I could name.

So are some friends of mine who also are Indies.

Not only bullshit but it expresses an (almost) unbelievably arrogant and self-righteous sentiment also. Sounds very much like an evangelical missionary.


Mark A. Baker

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Just noticing similarities. ESMB reserves the right to excommunicate those who break the rules.

It's not that the rules are unjust or anything merely that I noticed the similarities of wanting to not be isolated and what threatens isolation.

That's all.

Mmmmm, and it's true that many of us are extra 'touchy' about it due to the added connotation that goes along with being disconnected from (banned) in the cofs (SP status is awarded) often just for being true to yourself and speaking up.

I suppose its just another one of those things we all have to work through at our own pace.

 

[Free to shine]

Just noticing similarities. ESMB reserves the right to excommunicate those who break the rules.

It's not that the rules are unjust or anything merely that I noticed the similarities of wanting to not be isolated and what threatens isolation.

That's all.

As does every Message Board on the internet.
This is a Message Board.

As Emma said:

It seems that once you have been a Scientologist, you can never end a relationship, unfriend on Facebook, refuse a communication or ban a troublemaker because it's disconnection. It seems that everyone else in the world is still afforded that right, but when an Ex does it, it's called *disconnection*. It's ridiculous.

I agree about the isolation aspect but I think that is an issue that needs to be looked at on an individual basis. ie seeing a similarity to the most dreaded of scientology practices with something that is quite common and acceptable in the normal world, "break the rules and you go".

 

[degraded being]

Specifics? I wrote the post for Readers here and it's about personal attacks on a fellow ESMBer. I have little tolerance for intolerance!

I've said what I'm gonna say about it. I'm not going to name names, if I did that I'd probably just end up doing the very thing I'm speaking out against. If you really want to know the specifics of who did what, you'll just have to read a few of the threads where Mark Baker is being ridiculed and dog-piled and work it out for yourself. :confused2:

I hate it when someone arrives after the party is all over and then asks people to start it all up again so that they can party too. You should have arrived when the party was in full swing. Now, it's all over and you're just gonna have to make your own fun.

The end.

"...I'm not going to name names, if I did that I'd probably just end up doing the very thing I'm speaking out against..."

Naming names would (have) meant that the person(s)? you object to, regarding lack of politeness is not left vague. Vagueness in this case means that all those who have "vigorous" interactions with Mark Baker have to start wondering if they are included in your objections or not, and thinking about when they themselves feel that Mark Baker has dished out the same sort of behaviour to them, that you object to. But it is difficult to make any defense that way, because you could them claim that they were not the person(s) you were talking about. Or you could do the Panda two-step and infer that what you meant is fully clear in a previous post, when it isn't.

All because you think that being precise will be impolite! I live in Asia, where politeness and "harmony" is valued more than being precise or presenting the real facts. It sucks and wastes a lot of time.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

Sour grapies!!

well for a minute I thought you had written "sour gropies" and I was wondering what you two were up to.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

... Vagueness in this case means that all those who have "vigorous" interactions with Mark Baker have to start wondering if they are included in your objections or not, and thinking about when they themselves feel that Mark Baker has dished out the same sort of behaviour to them, that you object to. ...

No, they don't 'have to' any such thing. Nonetheless, their own self-suspicion in the matter might itself be considered a reasonable basis for food for thought.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Mick Wenlock]

Just noticing similarities. ESMB reserves the right to excommunicate those who break the rules.

It's not that the rules are unjust or anything merely that I noticed the similarities of wanting to not be isolated and what threatens isolation.

That's all.

Actually it is not "excommunicate" - it is refusing to let someone into your house who, every time you let them in, insists on ignoring your rules and pissing on the rugs.

This site is not a religion, it's a message board. No-one has a 'right" to act like a prick or an asshole here any more than they would if we were sitting around Emma's kitchen table having some beers and talking.

I have worked as a doorman (aka bouncer) for a bar on East Colfax (people who know Denver will understand what that entails) and when I escorted people from the premises for being a prat I wasn't excommunicating them. I was just letting them be a prat somewhere else.