self determinism

[degraded being]

Yep, I am wanting to start a new game. This would include the determination of others. I can play my own game but that is no fun. I need freedoms, barriers and purposes and these require others.

What kinds of games do you want to play?
Businesses?
Auditing/training?
or what?

 

[lotus]

Well so where are you?

A little bit far , but not too much!

What would be the budget you can allow ( I feel greedy tonight)
We could complete the office - build the furniture - my design is already done.
Painting - molding - repair a drywall

Can all the flooring be changed????

Then the living, dining and kitchen. Kitchen cabinets are to only be resurfaced.

What I can help is paint edges, hold things to cut, but mainly to clean and give tools but I am funny and a real good cook!

 

[Veda]

I am not a member of Ron's Orgs.
I will discuss anything with anyone. Shoot me your questions. What does this board think of the confidential stuff? I don't have a problem with communicating confidential stuff. I don't rely on the opinions of others to make my decisions. I read the CBR processes and ran what read. The rest is immaterial.

The rest is not immaterial. Sorry, but your claiming ignorance - while also claiming to be completely open - just doesn't ring true.

Your claim to not be a member of Ron's Orgs is irrelevant. You're waiting for others to complete "CBR OT 17" - remember?

And your assertion that the Scientology OT levels are not evaluative is just plain silly.

I'll let the others chat with you for a while.

 

[Gib]

What kinds of games do you want to play?
Businesses?
Auditing/training?
or what?

very good questions.

I always thought my involvement in scientology in it's pure form,

would answer those questions,
and then I would just do them.

Why would I pose the question to a forum,

I need a game to play?

:confused2:

 

[degraded being]

very good questions.

I always thought my involvement in scientology in it's pure form,

would answer those questions,
and then I would just do them.

Why would I pose the question to a forum,

I need a game to play?

:confused2:

I don't think I'll get an answer for awhile though. Helena swished past and K has gone to play games with her, I think. My comm line is broked.

 

[lotus]

I don't think I'll get an answer for awhile though. Helena swished past and K has gone to play games with her, I think. My comm line is broked.

Exact

I too feel I am left aside ....
but but..wait
nobody puts baby in a corner - no!

[video=youtube_share;28A9Jgo92GQ]http://youtu.be/28A9Jgo92GQ[/video]

 

[ktmrandy]

The rest is not immaterial. Sorry, but your claiming ignorance - while also claiming to be completely open - just doesn't ring true.

Your claim to not be a member of Ron's Orgs is irrelevant. You're waiting for others to complete "CBR OT 17" - remember?

And your assertion that the Scientology OT levels are not evaluative is just plain silly.

I'll let the others chat with you for a while.

Anything that does not add to the value of a game is immaterial to that game. I don't recall having stated that I was completely open. No one has to be a member of Ron's Org to do the CBR bridge any more than someone has to be a member of the CoS to do the LRH Bridge.

It is quite apparent that you have not done the Scientology OT levels as LRH wrote them.

If you assess a list and get a read, then ask the PC a question about that read that is not an evaluation. The auditor has not told the PC what to think about his case. All auditing is run the same. Assess a list and run what reads to EP. If it does not read it is not run.

 

[Gib]

Anything that does not add to the value of a game is immaterial to that game. I don't recall having stated that I was completely open. No one has to be a member of Ron's Org to do the CBR bridge any more than someone has to be a member of the CoS to do the LRH Bridge.

It is quite apparent that you have not done the Scientology OT levels as LRH wrote them.

If you assess a list and get a read, then ask the PC a question about that read that is not an evaluation. The auditor has not told the PC what to think about his case. All auditing is run the same. Assess a list and run what reads to EP. If it does not read it is not run.

but if it reads,

that is a evaluation.

and may not be true.

for, asking questions to get a read, is but evaluation, what to think, or get an indication what to think of the pc, as an auditor.

 

[degraded being]

but if it reads,

that is a evaluation.

Yes, and if it does not read that is also evaluation.

 

[eldritch cuckoo]

Yep, I am wanting to start a new game. This would include the determination of others. I can play my own game but that is no fun. I need freedoms, barriers and purposes and these require others.

Heheh. Cults, games, cultic games... The age of cults is going to be replaced by an age of games. Amusing, this...

 

[Helena Handbasket]

I don't think I'll get an answer for awhile though. Helena swished past and K has gone to play games with her, I think. My comm line is broked.

I think I'll swish in again and try to answer this ...

LRH talks about games but not much. The best you can do is to look it up in the Technical Dictionary and find a lot of talk about freedoms, purposes, and barriers along with a picture of a backgammon set. It would seem to me this is a big not-understood area.

A game is something to do. It would seem that most of the time we are too busy keeping up with the demands of life to waste time playing games, but the fact is that we are either more or less successful in making life work -- in the ongoing struggle to make our lives just a little bit better, we experience the thrill of victory or the agony of defeat on a near-daily basis.

All of which keeps life from getting boring.

By working hard and competing with others (or with circumstances) we have a purpose. About the worst thing that could happen to a person is that they get into a state where they have nothing to do, no problems to solve, no books to read, nothing at all -- what I call "a hard wait". Just emptyness. A hard wait is so despised that people will actually invent problems that make their lives worse so they can work their way out of them. Prisons attempt to punish inmates by throwing them into solitary confinement which is an attempt to force them into a hard wait.

I suppose if someone has all their first and second dynamic problems solved they can always find something to do on their third dynamic. And so on.

The "dwindling spiral" is something we created to give ourselves the "game" of working our way out of it.

I realize I'm not being too clear about all this but that's what I've got.

Just my $.02.

Helena

 

[Claire Swazey]

You are absolutely right. Scientology is a game created by LRH for people to play or not. If you play the game you have to accept his determinism, while the game is being played. On CBR OT17 the game is completed and his determinism is run out. Time for a new game which CBR labeled OT 18-40. I don't want to play the CBR game though. That would be accepting CBR's determinism.

No, that shouldn't be it at all.

Nobody should be playing anyone else's game. And, in fact, philosophically speaking, were it not for the problems inherent in Hubbard's writings, it was supposed to be about freeing people from aberration, physical constructs, MEST, etc. One cannot be free if one is playing someone else's game. In fact, that's exactly what's wrong with many elder traditional religions.

 

[eldritch cuckoo]

Nobody should be playing anyone else's game. And, in fact, philosophically speaking, were it not for the problems inherent in Hubbard's writings, it was supposed to be about freeing people from aberration, physical constructs, MEST, etc. One cannot be free if one is playing someone else's game. In fact, that's exactly what's wrong with many elder traditional religions.

That's the reason why you couldn't find two Satanists agreeing on anything. That unifies us.

 

[strativarius]

Originally Posted by strativarius

Hi ktmrandy (bein' nice so I don't get m2 on my case...)

I'd be interested in learning where you derive this certainty that one's body is being 'run' by something you call a GE. Can you tell me where this assuredness comes from, and the source of your information precisely?

I'd say its beyond doubt that the body has many control systems.

To call it a GE is probably not a problem. Well not for me anyway.
It is merely a label.

Possibly Udarnik is most expert here.

Thanks Terril, but my question was addressed specifically to ktmrandy.

 

[strativarius]

Originally Posted by strativarius

Hi ktmrandy.

I'd be interested in learning where you derive this certainty that one's body is being 'run' by something you call a GE. Can you tell me where this assuredness comes from, and the source of your information precisely?

[highlight]I am the source of this certainty[/highlight].
<snip>
[highlight]GE's have a totally different goal for running bodies. They want your body to last as long as it can and avoid dangerous things[/highlight]. I on the other had live for dangerous things. So we had to have a few conversations as to how to run things.<snip>

As an authority on GE's, you must have at least a degree if not a PhD thesis kicking around somewhere. Please can you direct me to where I might be able to read your research notes? Thanks.

 

[George Layton]

It appears I have a different definition of SCN than most of the members of this board. Mine is the total accumulation of data that LRH presented to the world as SCN prior to 1980. The members of this board appear to think that SCN is the Church of Scientology, which has not followed Scientology as written by LRH since 1980.

There are many sources that attempt to color or change how you think or how you make decisions. Some can be reactive, based on things that have been done to you. Others can be decisions that you have made, in the past, that color your current decisions but you have forgotten you ever made.

An example of a decision you made could be; You had to eat peanut butter every day when you were small and you made the decision that when you grew up you would never eat peanut butter again. Now being older and wiser you hate peanut butter, but you don't really know why. If you find the original decision to not like peanut butter you will be freed to make the decision about whether you like peanut butter in present time based on current information. This would be restoring your self determinism regarding peanut butter.

This needs to be done on all subjects, people, teachers, auditors, seniors, etc. Eventually you will make all decisions based on what is in front of you, not something from the past.

This can be achieved outside of the current Church of Scientology by anyone that practices Scientology prior to 1980.

When you redefine something you can turn it into anything you like and it could reaffirm itself in any experience you might have. For example look at hubbard's redefinition of the engram, first defined http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engram_(neuropsychology), hubbard redefined it as a symptom that only he could cure and away it all went into chaos. For each and every problem delve into the past so you can live in the now? Some people would say " I had enough peanut butter when I was a kid" rather then obsess with why they don't like peanut butter.

Three kids climbing on a barbwire fence, smiling at horsesin pastures green.
The corner of my eye glimpsed as I drove by and memorizedthe scene.
They’re not going to harm you, they’re simply your memories,and they don’t need to be erased or turned inside out.
They’re not going to harm you; they’re simply your memories.Gathering up the memories is what life’s about.
Sunrise shining through the changing leaves as I look downthe road.
Lighting up the world, waking up the birds, turning all thetrees to gold.
They’re not going to harm you, they’re simply your memoriesthey can be liken to reflections in the mirror.
They’re not going to harm you, no need to be afraid, simply thosepast times that we hold so dear.
An old friend passed away today, it hurt to see him go.
It comes with every single life; we all know that it is so.
They’re not going to harm you, they’re simply your memories,and they don’t need to be chased down or made out to be bad.
They’re not going to harm you, they’re simply your memories,reflections of times when you were happy or were sad.
I remember as child while wandering through a wood, a bearjumping on a tree.
I’m not all that sure that it wasn’t as frightened as muchas it had frightened me.
They’re not going to harm you, they’re simply your memories,they can be reminders of places that you’ve been.
They’re not going to harm you, they’re simply your memories,your minds picture album of the things you’ve done and seen.
You don’t need to turn them against you; you don’t need tochase them to another time.
You don’t need to interrogate them, gathering your memories neverwas a crime.

 

[Elronius of Marcabia]

I challenge the "including SCN" in that sentence. It may well be the goal of some well-meaning tech peeps, and some isolated writings/recordings of Hubbard's do include the words, but when it comes down to it? No. The real goal of Scn is increasing the Hubbard-determinism of its adherents.

Paul

well said Paul

 

[ktmrandy]

As an authority on GE's, you must have at least a degree if not a PhD thesis kicking around somewhere. Please can you direct me to where I might be able to read your research notes? Thanks.

I have no research notes. I ask my GE a question it answers.

 

[phenomanon]

Anything that does not add to the value of a game is immaterial to that game. I don't recall having stated that I was completely open. No one has to be a member of Ron's Org to do the CBR bridge any more than someone has to be a member of the CoS to do the LRH Bridge.

It is quite apparent that you have not done the Scientology OT levels as LRH wrote them.

If you assess a list and get a read, then ask the PC a question about that read that is not an evaluation. The auditor has not told the PC what to think about his case. All auditing is run the same. Assess a list and run what reads to EP. If it does not read it is not run.

Every Grade in Scn comes with a prepared series of questions to be answered by the PC. Having a set group of questions that lead to a certain EP is evaluative.
Asking any old question that you pull outta your a...off the wall... does not harbor the evaluation of your case that the prescribed list of questions does.
Running what 'reads' is evaluated by the Auditor. ( sometimes it is even the Auditor's read that you are running, or the read belongs to someone out in the hallway).Quite often an Auditor doesn't know how to read an emeter. So I would say that you are at the effect point for evaluation the minute you step into COS, or the FZ, or any other entity delivering Scn.

 

[phenomanon]

Anything that does not add to the value of a game is immaterial to that game. I don't recall having stated that I was completely open. No one has to be a member of Ron's Org to do the CBR bridge any more than someone has to be a member of the CoS to do the LRH Bridge.

It is quite apparent that you have not done the Scientology OT levels as LRH wrote them.

If you assess a list and get a read, then ask the PC a question about that read that is not an evaluation. The auditor has not told the PC what to think about his case. All auditing is run the same. Assess a list and run what reads to EP. If it does not read it is not run.

Jeezopete! The list itself is an evaluation. It also is another's determinism about what you need to look at to 'solve' your case. That you "have a case" is an eval.