Shooting Stars
- Thread starter afaceinthecrowd
- Start date
Boojuum
Silver Meritorious Patron
Wonderful thread!
afitc--Brilliant! Brilliant! Brilliant!
It's hard to say what I've enjoyed more.
Firstly, your understanding of the transition of the organization from the early days to the present is gold.
Your terrific observations of the LRH's family, which is sadly, sadly lacking in every commentary. One reads a sentence or two about MSH and Quentin, usually the same sentence and nothing about Arthur or Suzette and nearly nothing about Diana. Any detailed fate of the family members is a big, missing, huh?. LRH's kids and even MSH were the focus of a lot of interest but almost nothing is written about them. As I write this, the absence of information is in itself odd.
LRH's daily habits and treatment of those around him is just devastating to his character.
Your emphasis on LRH's lack of admission of guilt ever, is again devastating to his character.
In the end, Scientology's shortcomings all point to LRH--not a conspiracy, not mu's, not incompetant staff and certainly not the nature of our society. For some reason, seeing these details again and again reminds me of the true nature of what I was involved with.
I've got a ton of work to do but this thread just ate up about 3 hours of my life!!
Great stuff.
ESMB is amazing!! This thread and the Mayo's in one week!! Wowza!! Thanks Emma. Again and again.
afitc--Brilliant! Brilliant! Brilliant!
It's hard to say what I've enjoyed more.
Firstly, your understanding of the transition of the organization from the early days to the present is gold.
Your terrific observations of the LRH's family, which is sadly, sadly lacking in every commentary. One reads a sentence or two about MSH and Quentin, usually the same sentence and nothing about Arthur or Suzette and nearly nothing about Diana. Any detailed fate of the family members is a big, missing, huh?. LRH's kids and even MSH were the focus of a lot of interest but almost nothing is written about them. As I write this, the absence of information is in itself odd.
LRH's daily habits and treatment of those around him is just devastating to his character.
Your emphasis on LRH's lack of admission of guilt ever, is again devastating to his character.
In the end, Scientology's shortcomings all point to LRH--not a conspiracy, not mu's, not incompetant staff and certainly not the nature of our society. For some reason, seeing these details again and again reminds me of the true nature of what I was involved with.
I've got a ton of work to do but this thread just ate up about 3 hours of my life!!
Great stuff.
ESMB is amazing!! This thread and the Mayo's in one week!! Wowza!! Thanks Emma. Again and again.
Infinite
Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Auditor's Toad
Clear as Mud
Yes, Ted!!!
I was a Judas goat. I will carry that burden for the rest of my days.
I've written so many words here on ESMB and not one of them—not all of them—will ever put me to rest.
Face
In this long journey I call my life if I have only been able to learn one thing that would be to speak for myself and not even try to represent it as something that another would feel might anything to do with them.
That said....I have some things to say.
One of the things I have said to those nearest and dearest to me with whom I know I can trust showing my most precious of thoughts is this :
" I have never felt more right than I did as a scientologist " and now to come to the realization that I was never more wrong than as I was as a scientologist.
Hey, now, it wasn't that I didn't go down that path of my own free will and all that. I did all that to me. I get to look me in the eye and say I may have needed that lesson but, jeez, wasn't those years of arrested development ( AD ) a rather steep price to pay ?
Yeah, it was, But it makes no sense to me to waste another moment now on what I've already wasted so many years and so very much of my life.
I can do that.
But, ye Gods, the people I led down that path with me. The people I talked into their " next level " and all those PCs I got un-Red tagged that I knew damned well would not get the program I wrote to fix 'em but just got stuck back on post.
I can't count those numbers of the people I was the " Judas Goat " for.
Life Repair, Dianetics, Ned, Clear, OT level after OT level, course after course after course. All that.
How many times did I sit down and talk to somebody who was really to leave after some injustice and with more than one foot out the door got them to keep on going anyway? Too many.
Yes, I "helped" people get " up the bridge ". Does not matter what others did or did not do, I have to look at what I did.
When it became obvious to me I was doing the wrong thing for me, my family, my loved ones ? I left. I didn't go quietly. Both staff and public that I knew were aware I left. Some disconnected. Some disconnected with tears in their eyes, but disconnected.
To my way of thinking, I did things I now wish I hadn't, like KRs ( getting off other peoples withholds still sickens me ) and disconnecting ( major admission of ones personal weakness or getting told I had a dog in a fight when i just didn't ) ... anyway.
It comes down to moving on, behaving better, supporting those I love, being a friend to friends.
And, under "helping" I keep hoping one day I can do a little something that is just a small part of the monumental scale Face has been able to do for so many of us : put facts on the line that lets us all know the truth and be able to move on.
Infinite
Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Anyone who genuinely believes they had full reign of their cognitive functions and willingly chose on-going participation in the Scientology mind-fuck have not read this: http://paulsrabbit.com/levine.pdf
Sure, the Headleys' journey was their own but everyone who spent a significant amount of time in the cult will have suffered the same or similar restrictions on their ability to make rational decisions
Sure, the Headleys' journey was their own but everyone who spent a significant amount of time in the cult will have suffered the same or similar restrictions on their ability to make rational decisions
lkwdblds
Crusader
You hit the nail on the head!
I think you have hit the nail on the head as to what was perhaps LRH's biggest failing. Your line, "interfering in every step" which I highlighted in blue above, pretty much sums it up.
How many outstanding personnel were gotten rid of? How many successful persons and succesful actions were unmocked by either LRH's personal interference or his Mission personnel showing up at a reasonably smoothly running Organization and changing everything?
The good hats would try hanging on, usually by citing policy but they would be thrown under the bus by a teen age cadre of immature youth who did not know their policy nor did they want to or need to know it. They had their marching orders to dismantle and destroy what they were told was corrupt leadership and they had no time to waste on discovering "the truth" of the situation.
In the final analyis, what we were told, "Its only true if its true for you." and "Scientology is the science of knowing how to know." were powerful magnets which got people to join up but in practice those datum were not actually allowed to be used (beyond the first introductory experiences) in Scientology organizations. The datum themselves were thrown under the bus just beyond the entry gates of Scientology.
It might be a cute cartoon. Some kid is promised a new pony if he chooses to go to kindergarten at a certain school. The kid is all jazzed and demands his parents sign him up. He is mounted on his pony, rides through the gates of the school, happily waving good bye to his parents. Once outside the view from the entry gates, the kid is asked to dismount and his pony is taken away from him. There is only one pony and it is used to lure all applicants into the school.
Lakey
I think you have hit the nail on the head as to what was perhaps LRH's biggest failing. Your line, "interfering in every step" which I highlighted in blue above, pretty much sums it up.
How many outstanding personnel were gotten rid of? How many successful persons and succesful actions were unmocked by either LRH's personal interference or his Mission personnel showing up at a reasonably smoothly running Organization and changing everything?
The good hats would try hanging on, usually by citing policy but they would be thrown under the bus by a teen age cadre of immature youth who did not know their policy nor did they want to or need to know it. They had their marching orders to dismantle and destroy what they were told was corrupt leadership and they had no time to waste on discovering "the truth" of the situation.
In the final analyis, what we were told, "Its only true if its true for you." and "Scientology is the science of knowing how to know." were powerful magnets which got people to join up but in practice those datum were not actually allowed to be used (beyond the first introductory experiences) in Scientology organizations. The datum themselves were thrown under the bus just beyond the entry gates of Scientology.
It might be a cute cartoon. Some kid is promised a new pony if he chooses to go to kindergarten at a certain school. The kid is all jazzed and demands his parents sign him up. He is mounted on his pony, rides through the gates of the school, happily waving good bye to his parents. Once outside the view from the entry gates, the kid is asked to dismount and his pony is taken away from him. There is only one pony and it is used to lure all applicants into the school.
Lakey
Ted
Gold Meritorious Patron
Wow! That's a mouthful, or a headful, or whatever gets full when the communication is satisfying.
Thanks, Toady!
What face is writing about seems to be a lifelong pattern.
I recently reread the interviews with Barbara Kaye (from the early 1950's) and it's deja vu all over again.
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/miller/interviews/barbkaye.htm
I recently reread the interviews with Barbara Kaye (from the early 1950's) and it's deja vu all over again.
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/miller/interviews/barbkaye.htm
Terril park
Sponsor
Might be good to look at and see if you did any good during your time served, help offset that which was not so good.
I understand what you are saying. I didn't get into such problems. I
was only on staff 3 years. Then coming back as a lone FEBC as ED [ a
post I definitely wasn't suited to] I quickly got a gut feeling that I'd have to get into the problem areas you experienced, though not seeing specifics, and left. Prior to that in HCO holding E/O was a much easier ride. Not in the main firing line for the key stats. Whenever I handled someone in ethics it
was always from the point of view of how can I help this person do better in life. Don't recall their even being a stat for that Lol!
Who you see here are among others two class VIs who deliver excellent
service to others. Carmello who achieves excellent results and Ted who
has done so also. Not sure if he still audits, but he's one of only three
auditors who I've been told personally is the " best auditor in the world".
Phil Spickler and Purple Haze are the two others both class VIII. Don't mean others havn't had this said about them that I havn't heard about, or people who think the same but never expressed it in so many words.
Just so as to not inadvertently tread on toes here, none of the four I mentioned do " pure standard tech" whatever that might be.
CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
gee shucks. what was your first clue?
as a PS on this thread. When I audited in the Co$, well prior to 1979, I wasn't a judas goat. We did not set people up for OT. We handled what the PC wanted who was sitting in front of us then and there. everything later was whatever it was.
Maggie Wesley, in Santa Clara, CA circa about 1974, as a for instance, was a PC who started with my wife. Teri gave her some touch assists. EACH TOUCH of Teri's finger was painful. Maggie had systemic arthritis. She was 46 years old and couldn't get out of bed to go to the bathroom by herself. 18 months later, sessions with me about 6 days a week, each about 2 hours, she was jogging a PAR course (a trademarked exercise course) near her apartment. despite being on disability, and hence, losing it due to improved motion and capability.
so what if the stuff at AOLA was a lie. Results were produced routinely in the franchises. I can't speak for the org auditing. Results drove word of mouth. Word of mouth is what we used for advertising. No free Stress tests. People wanted what we sold based on word of mouth.
Ted
Gold Meritorious Patron
I have a hard time with delivering Scientology:
1) the depth of indoctrination of many scios leaves them in very poor case condition with fixed ideas and expectations that, I find, have little or nothing to do with actual auditing for their benefit. The first step then becomes clearing the weirdness implanted by "ethics" and admin procedures. I have seen the pc completely change valences when picking up the cans. Good communication about anything with no cans, a battle to get a comm line in when on cans. It's more than this old guy cares to deal with.
2) I have not yet resolved my concern with auditing. That concern is the question of what is being run in while auditor and pc have attention on running something out. Veda's comments about OT-3 is a prime example. I will relate from my own experience:
When I arrived on OT-3 I was ready for the action. Having audited many different pc's, each with a unique case, each with individual responses and so on, I was able to apply the processes given and do something good--I hope--for each. Easy pc's, tough pc's, so-called dog pc's, I readily accepted them all.
Additionally I had served briefly as Qual Sec in a Mission, and then went on to run my own Mission. I was well versed in ethics and admin tech even though much of it, I felt, was superfluous for my scene.
Add people and promo for years telling me I really needed OT-3, well I was thoroughly setup.
Three ran easy, as easy as auditing all those different pc's I had audited. Doing OT-3 was just a matter of doing the work of good auditing. Then I was done with it. I can't tell you how many hours I spent, but it was not quickie, and I never bogged.
Still "setup," I went onto 7EP then IIIx. Found a bit more to run, then done.
Do you see the setup? I was primed and ready for III because I was in the Hubbard mindset. Today, I am not. I have attempted to run III-style stuff. It goes nowhere. Hubbard would say, "No confront!" "Retread Grades," etc. Now I call, "Bullshit!" I have no interest. I have no interest because I am using a different mind, not the Hubbard mind.
So with auditing I want to know what is being run in on any pc while he thinks something is being run out. I am just watching out for the magician's slight of hand. Thus far I have resolved that two-way communication restricted by the auditor/pc contract expressed in the Auditor's Code is safe. TR-3/4 when the pc stalls, probably safe--up to a point. Repetitive processes to F/N cog, VGI? Probably not safe depending on the hypnotic level of the pc.
That's where I am at currently. Auditing pc's the "standard" route gives the impression that the church is good and it is just management that is bad. I am under no obligation or contract to fix Flag's broken products or support scientology or the church. But I will help anyone I take a liking to.
That's where I am at.
Ted
Gold Meritorious Patron
We used Life Repair for that purpose. Life Repair is just a marketing name. It is simply repair auditing. It is a most fun program for both auditor and pc when done right because it's ALL about the pc.
Auditor's Toad
Clear as Mud
I'm not going to name names but I knew, knew of, and got audited by some damn fine auditors.
Many times some people got hung up on what " class " an auditor was as if a IX had to better than an VIII which was supposed to be better than a VI which was supposed to better than a IV.
Baloney. I saw CS after CS pick a IV to auditor their spouse or kids when higher classed auditors were available.
There was always more to being an auditor who was extremely effective than just getting through the internship.
And there have been great auditors.
And I strongly suspect people gravitated to them for help long before they were auditors - and long after they ceased to audit " in the chair ".
Mark A. Baker
Sponsor
afaceinthecrowd
Gold Meritorious Patron
Welcome to ESMB, apocalyptic...so glad you are here with all of Us.
Your first post is a stunner and much, much appreciated.
Thank you...thank you so much.
Face
afaceinthecrowd
Gold Meritorious Patron
Yep...sure is for me. But, there is no full forgiveness without self forgiveness. I'm still workin' on it, one step at a time...being here with all Y'all is a huge help.
Face
afaceinthecrowd
Gold Meritorious Patron
afaceinthecrowd
Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks a bunch Boojuum.
The SO's callous treatment of children and parents is an extension of El Ron’s “Family” life, IMO. You take them out and play with them for an hour a day (if your stats are up) and then put them back in a “box”. Now I know that uncaring parents exist outside the confines of Institutionalized Scn, but IS dictates to the parent much of the terms and amount of the relationship a parent will have with their child…and the child is never consulted or considered as having any say in the matter.
I agree, ESMB is amazing and Emma's a golden peach.
Face
afaceinthecrowd
Gold Meritorious Patron
Ya...the FAP Triangle sounds good.
afaceinthecrowd
Gold Meritorious Patron
Man, whatta post, Toady...w-h-a-t-t-a p-o-s-t!
Your perspective always so down to earth and human.
Thank you.
Face