So now what?

[Type4_PTS]

Depends on the laws. Give examples so that they can be compared against the U.S. Const.

Would you be OK with it if such laws didn't violate the U.S. Constitution?

I'm not going to provide examples. I don't think it would be wise posting a legal strategy onto a public message board which is monitored by OSA.

 

[PirateAndBum]

Most places have laws covering fraud.

Note the contracts you must sign to even do a service in the Co$. A fucking legal contract disclaiming most everything you could sue them for.

What a sucker I was.

Imagine arriving at your local Methodist church bright and shiny 11:00am Sunday morning to attend the service and you had to sign a legal contract waiving any rights you had over what happened when you sat in the pew?

mmm yeah that would go up like a lead balloon.

 

[WildKat]

I would not want to live in a society that can "stamp out" or otherwise eradicate Scientology. Or any other thing that some people enjoy, that someone else decides is bad or evil, like smoking or cheeseburgers or guns or any Belief System, no matter how full of shit it is.

As adults in a free society, we need the freedom to decide. (Children are another matter, and do need protection, but that's what parents are for.)

So while it is fine and just an exercise in free speech to stand outside an org with a sign that says "Scientology is a scam" or "David Miscavige is an SP", it is NOT OK to stand in front of the door and physically keep people from going in, or run around and burn down their buildings because you "know what is best" and want to save everyone. Too much like the Scientologist who runs around manipulating and lying to people because they want to save them or "knows best that they just really need Scientology."

Educating people, protests, articles, books, programs.....great.

Enforcement, eradication, "stamping out".... those are tools of a totalitarian "Big Brother Knows Best" type society that I do not support.

 

[JBWriter]

Most places have laws covering fraud.

Note the contracts you must sign to even do a service in the Co$. A fucking legal contract disclaiming most everything you could sue them for.

What a sucker I was.

Imagine arriving at your local Methodist church bright and shiny 11:00am Sunday morning to attend the service and you had to sign a legal contract waiving any rights you had over what happened when you sat in the pew?

mmm yeah that would go up like a lead balloon.

For those interested to read for themselves what the contracts alluded to above contain, here's a link to Anonycat's recent post. http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...ments-Assorted&p=753241&viewfull=1#post753241

FWIW, I've not yet read any poster's here state that Co$ requires a member to have his/her own attorney review the contract(s) prior to signature.



JB.

 

[Lermanet_com]

.
.
Move to France and take up French citizenship. Germany is a good option.
They see a scumbag cult. They treat it like a scumbag cult.

A smooth talking con man in Paris once sold the Eiffel Tower to a junk metal dealer.

LINK

And then sold it again,

"Fluent in five different languages, with over 22 aliases, a quick intelligence, and an almost hypnotizing charm, the Czech-born Lustig had been swindling people out of money and property for years. He began by plying his shady trade on cruise ships full of wealthy travelers. One of his favorite ruses was to pose as a producer of Broadway musicals, then prey on people’s secret desires to be in show business by getting them to invest in non-existent productions. By 1925, Lustig had racked up over 40 arrests, and was wanted by law enforcement agencies around the world."

Read the full text here: http://mentalfloss.com/article/1280...victor-lustig-sold-eiffel-tower#ixzz2REndL74J

 

[Osiris]

While I agree with much of what you said in your OP, I'm going to play Devil's Advocate for a moment.

We as a society pass laws with the intent to protect people from sexual predators. The CoS is a predator of another type.

Why shouldn't we pass laws to protect people from it?

They could make a law that made it easier to get your money back ...... if you think you made a spur of the moment decision .....

the only thing I can think of is like the 30 day cool off period for life insurance products in Australia ... where you can get your money refunded


They could also make a law to make it easier to get your money back ..... if you were just not happy ..... (for products selling spiritual, or mind improvement) .....

obviously mind improvement products work or doesn't work in the eyes of the person who receives it .....


Not allowing the Church of Scientology to claim church status would be a good start

 

[freethinker]

Really, what part?

Nope. Otherwise you could argue to charge ALL religion with fraud. You need to restudy (or study) the U.S. Const.

 

[Techless]

Nope. Otherwise you could argue to charge ALL religion with fraud. You need to restudy (or study) the U.S. Const.

Yep, agreed, you ain't gonna be able to write laws biased towards one religion if you can't prove some totally backasswords 'ideal' that it may have! And then, they all have some version of that contained within it seems. What seems to be an overall factor is that humans in general, don't wanna seem to take the stand and say it's rubbish...(definitely apart from the defrocked few!) cause it'll end up going against someone else's 'belief'.

I mean it's obvious that a few vast larger religions condone pedophilia or polygamy -right? Perhaps more than I know of. Why haven't they been shut down by law?

I think this is the reason why any actual law(s) are very hesitant to be written or passed these days - in our pathetically 'PO world' - cause you'd be treading on another's belief, even if it's a psychotic one - whose to say?

Scary shit indeed -

Then again: this is how/why they (religions) can get away with it. Very sad, (understatement of the millennium) but apparently true as far as I have seen.

As my bud, F Zappa has said: "it's the 'crux' of the biscuit"

Please get me onto the next planet...

Oh wait, maybe that one's not too good either...

 

[OhMG]

Really, what part?

Go study other major religions and you'll know.

 

[OhMG]

Would you be OK with it if such laws didn't violate the U.S. Constitution?

I'm not going to provide examples.

Because you have none that don't violate the Const...

 

[Idle Morgue]

Yup!!

Jesus, Mary and Joseph - please help me. I cannot believe there are people on this board arguing the fact that Scientology is a religion or not! Wow! Just fricken amazing!

 

[PirateAndBum]

Jesus, Mary and Joseph - please help me. I cannot believe there are people on this board arguing the fact that Scientology is a religion or not! Wow! Just fricken amazing!

IT IS!!!!

IT ISN'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OH YES IT IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FUCK YOU!!!!!!!

FUCK YOU TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ahhhhhh, everyone is so happy now.

Glad we've settled the matter. (for the 500th time)

 

[Idle Morgue]

Most places have laws covering fraud.

Note the contracts you must sign to even do a service in the Co$. A fucking legal contract disclaiming most everything you could sue them for.

What a sucker I was.

Imagine arriving at your local Methodist church bright and shiny 11:00am Sunday morning to attend the service and you had to sign a legal contract waiving any rights you had over what happened when you sat in the pew?

mmm yeah that would go up like a lead balloon.

Or how about getting regged for your entire bridge...then to be told you are illegal pc cuz you are on meds and cannot do any auditing or training unless you jump through hoops not doable... then taken to the regg again and shown "merchants of scientology chaos videos" and asked if would you like to donate to CCHR and the IAS? You can get the Bridge next lifetime! Where is the proof of lifetimes anyway - cuz someone's imagination said they lived before...

You can't get a refund! You are upset about the videos showing the world going to hell in a handbasket - so you give all your money to the cult.

Wow - sounds so spiritual, don't it?

 

[BardoThodol]

Just when I think the universe is about to end, a crocus pops up in the yard.

I get so confused.

 

[freethinker]

That is not an answer and studying religions isn't the answer to the fraud question.

The question was about the Constitution, did you forget or are you resorting to life in the government?

Go study other major religions and you'll know.

 

[NoName]

Most places have laws covering fraud.

Note the contracts you must sign to even do a service in the Co$. A fucking legal contract disclaiming most everything you could sue them for.

What a sucker I was.

Imagine arriving at your local Methodist church bright and shiny 11:00am Sunday morning to attend the service and you had to sign a legal contract waiving any rights you had over what happened when you sat in the pew?

mmm yeah that would go up like a lead balloon.

Out of curiosity, has Ted Babbitt word cleared "contract of adhesion"?

Seriously, that might be something to consider, seeing as how the people who are signing these contracts believe that their eternal salvation is at stake. But I dunno if there is any precedent on this in religion. I'm not very knowledgeable on that point.

 

[freethinker]

Adhesion contracts are voidable.

Out of curiosity, has Ted Babbitt word cleared "contract of adhesion"?

Seriously, that might be something to consider, seeing as how the people who are signing these contracts believe that their eternal salvation is at stake. But I dunno if there is any precedent on this in religion. I'm not very knowledgeable on that point.

 

[Panda Termint]

It's kinda pointless to argue about the religious nature of scientology in a world where Pastafarians have religious rights. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14135523

 

[PirateAndBum]

Or how about getting regged for your entire bridge...then to be told you are illegal pc cuz you are on meds and cannot do any auditing or training unless you jump through hoops not doable... then taken to the regg again and shown "merchants of scientology chaos videos" and asked if would you like to donate to CCHR and the IAS? You can get the Bridge next lifetime! Where is the proof of lifetimes anyway - cuz someone's imagination said they lived before...

You can't get a refund! You are upset about the videos showing the world going to hell in a handbasket - so you give all your money to the cult.

Wow - sounds so spiritual, don't it?

Hmm, well you could get a refund if you decided to give Scn the good old heave ho, but of course you don't cause the hook has already been sunk in your mind.

These are just part of the costs of saving the planet my friend. The end justifies the means. Parents need to teach their children to be wary of this kind of thing. Education is the only solution. Con-men have been around a long long time and I don't see their demise any time soon.

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. You still want to do it - well, keep your eyes open, and if you get burned don't be pissed at me when I tell you I told you so.

 

[Type4_PTS]

Because you have none that don't violate the Const...

OhMG, religion is not exempt from the rule of law, or as stated in this article:

The Free Exercise Clause does not create a right to avoid neutral, generally applicable laws. There is no First Amendment right to avoid the law that applies to every other actor. The Supreme Court affirmed this principle in Employment Division v. Smith, 494 U.S. 872 (1990), often referred to as the “peyote decision.”
http://www.americanbar.org/publicat...om/religious_governed_by_the_rule_of_law.html

Since you insist upon my giving you examples I've listed out some for you on this site:
[link edited due to Type4_PTS's request]