Suppressive and Suppression

[gomorrhan]

At this moment I sincerely believe that the Church of Scientology is more suppressive than the people it is declaring to be "suppressive."

The Church of Scientology is doing more to suppress self-determinism than the society around it.

The Church of Scientology is on a reverse vector.

I feel very sorry to see the Church of Scientology go to dogs. At one time it gave hope.

Not now.

Signed,
Vinay Agarwala
.

I don't believe in "Suppressives", although I do believe that overwhelming counter-intention has a "suppressive" effect on a person. Even in the classic cases such as Ghenghis Khan, I don't think he was evil, I just think he was interpreted that way by those who were defeated by him.

The Church of Scientology is deceptive, and does attempt to overwhelm and undermine anything other than total compliance to their intention. I don't think they are evil, although I do think they are sociopathic (as most corporations are), perhaps worse than most, because their policies were defined by a sociopath who intended to smash his name into history.

"Smashing time for Elron".

 

[Vinaire]

I don't believe in "Suppressives", although I do believe that overwhelming counter-intention has a "suppressive" effect on a person. Even in the classic cases such as Ghenghis Khan, I don't think he was evil, I just think he was interpreted that way by those who were defeated by him.

The Church of Scientology is deceptive, and does attempt to overwhelm and undermine anything other than total compliance to their intention. I don't think they are evil, although I do think they are sociopathic (as most corporations are), perhaps worse than most, because their policies were defined by a sociopath who intended to smash his name into history.

"Smashing time for Elron".

Terms don't matter. I hope you understood what I said.

It is just a matter of allowing another to be. Or it is a matter of experiencing what one is doing to another and learning from it.

Why does COS protest so much against experiencing that, which it has been doing to others for some time now?

Where is the Golden Rule that was mentioned in The Way to happiness?

How juvenile, so immature and utterly irresponsible can the Church be? It continues to act the way, which then it protests when reflected.

Why be that way if you don't like your reflection?

.

 

[gomorrhan]

We decry most in others what we most object to in ourselves.

 

[Vinaire]

We decry most in others what we most object to in ourselves.

Alright then... What is Scientology all about?

.

 

[gomorrhan]

The activity of the Church seems largely about domination of their membership and extraction of assets from them.

The technology seems largely about establishing rapport and discharging unfulfilled intentions. The technology seems to have been subverted completely in modern scientology practice. I noticed this in the 1980's, and left. It could have been happening earlier, and from reports, was, but the general trend seemed towards helping people until the late 70's, when the activities of the Church seem to have overwhelmed the purpose of the technology.

 

[cinamingrl]

~~~

That is perhaps the hardest thing to wake up to. They do not have any concern with your wellbeing. They use the lovebombing "concern" strategy simply to suck more out of you. They do not care about you or the public. They do not care about your spiritual wellbeing or your progress up the bridge. They can be damn good at faking it. In reality, you are just a disposable resource to be drained, and when you are no longer of use to them, suddenly, the "concern" is gone.

It was all fake.

LA

Oh this is so true. Isn't "lovebombing" what the moonies do? I'd heard that the husband of the ED who was the senior position for the PPO, used to be a moonie. He used to wear those orange robes, shaved his head and hung out at the airport. I'd heard that they use that "lovebombing" technique. Or is that a c of s thing?

It was as if as soon as I ran out of money, was "down-tone" and critical of them, they quickly lost all concern with me. So you are right for sure.

Sometimes I wonder whether those people who I was on staff with, ever read this forum. Are we allowed to name names?

 

[Voltaire's Child]

At this moment I sincerely believe that the Church of Scientology is more suppressive than the people it is declaring to be "suppressive."

The Church of Scientology is doing more to suppress self-determinism than the society around it.

The Church of Scientology is on a reverse vector.

I feel very sorry to see the Church of Scientology go to dogs. At one time it gave hope.

Not now.

Signed,
Vinay Agarwala
.

I think CofS is extremely suppressive. It doesn't just kinda do some stuff some of the time- it constantly breaks promises, rips people off and worse. It's just never going to be ok. This organization needs to go away.

 

[thetanic]

I think CofS is extremely suppressive. It doesn't just kinda do some stuff some of the time- it constantly breaks promises, rips people off and worse. It's just never going to be ok. This organization needs to go away.

"We always deliver what we promise."

Heh.

I agree with you, Fluffy.

 

[Vinaire]

I think CofS is extremely suppressive. It doesn't just kinda do some stuff some of the time- it constantly breaks promises, rips people off and worse. It's just never going to be ok. This organization needs to go away.

That happens when self-determinism is taken away.

It is impossible for this organization to correct itself because there is no self-determinism in it. It is structured to be totally robotic to the person on the top. And if that person on the top is robotic, you just have a big machinery like the MEST universe.

I feel sorry for the Church of Scientology.

.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

I think CofS is extremely suppressive. It doesn't just kinda do some stuff some of the time- it constantly breaks promises, rips people off and worse. It's just never going to be ok. This organization needs to go away.

With the added kicker that all the suppression is based on some form of "LRH policy".


Mark A. Baker

 

[Good twin]

I understand how you feel Vinay. I feel sorrow sometimes too. It's like even though I am not part of that group, it was part of my spiritual growth. I am sorry that it is not available without destruction.
But this is how I see it now. The Church of Scientology that we left is not the Church of Scientology that exists. If for no other reason, simply because we are not part of it any more. When I talk to the people here on this board to a certain degree I am talking to the historical figures of the church. They are not part of the church's future. It will never be the same. It's okay. Time moves on. I stayed way too long because I held on to that hope when there was no longer any evidence there was reason to hope. Whatever was pure about Scientology was there because we put it there. That is no longer allowed. It's over. I feel fortunate to have been able to find you, ALL of you, here. The people on this message board represent the heart and soul of what I was looking for in Scientology. So nothing is lost. I really love you guys.

That happens when self-determinism is taken away.

It is impossible for this organization to correct itself because there is no self-determinism in it. It is structured to be totally robotic to the person on the top. And if that person on the top is robotic, you just have a big machinery like the MEST universe.

I feel sorry for the Church of Scientology.

.

 

[duddins]

Hi Vin,

Although I believe that things are becoming worse, I believe that Scientology has been a suppressive group for a very long time.

"MY OWN DECLARATIONS"
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=4463

Although the above thread is very much based on my healing as an Ex Sea Org member, there is a great deal of evidence that the foundations upon which the entire operation was built, was/is suppressive.

I think of a stick and a rope and a carrot, hanging out in front of a starving horse......the horse will never get the carrot and will eventually die of starvation. But the rider gets to arrive at his/her destination at the horses expense.

People long to become better/happier people. Scientology promises this to it's public.

IMO, Scientology is suppressive because it has been run by suppressive people who make sure that the people they serve never become better people. Perhaps more arrogant people, but not better/happier.

Just keep holding out that carrot and they will keep paying!

Scientology gains what it ultimately sought to gain.....money and power over others.

DM is an SP by LRH's defintion. (He should know one, because I believe he was one.) DM has destroyed more than he has built in terms of fulfilled lives.

But, they have money and power! So, he can consider himself a success.

It is no mistake that he is the way he is. He is the proverbial product of Scientology.

My two cents.

 

[Axiom142]

At this moment I sincerely believe that the Church of Scientology is more suppressive than the people it is declaring to be "suppressive."

The Church of Scientology is doing more to suppress self-determinism than the society around it.

The Church of Scientology is on a reverse vector.

I feel very sorry to see the Church of Scientology go to dogs. At one time it gave hope.

Not now.

Signed,
Vinay Agarwala
.

So right Vinay!

I think hope is in rather short supply in the orgs right now.

I had a very similar realisation to yours, about a year ago. After all the years I had spend believing in Scientology, to suddenly realise that I could never achieve what I had dreamed of, was a devastating experience.

Of course, I felt used, abused and betrayed, but it was the thought that I could no longer keep making excuses for the ‘Church of Scientology’ and why it wasn’t delivering, that was the most soul-destroying. It couldn’t deliver because of it’s inherent nature. The suppression of self-determinism was very apparent and one of the things that I objected to the most. It is one of the reasons that I chose Axiom142 as my nom de plume.

Speaking of betrayal, I just noticed a couple of hours ago, that I still have an A4-sized piece of paper with a Hubbard Quote on it, pinned to the wall in front of me. It has been there so long, I have ceased to notice it. On it, it has ‘The Aims of Scientology’ and near the end it says:

“Man suspects all offers of help. He has often been betrayed, his confidence shattered. Too frequently he has given his trust and been betrayed. We may err, for we build a world with broken straws. But we will never betray your faith in us so long as you are one of us.”

(emphasis added)

Has this promise been kept?

Axiom142

 

[Good twin]

Yes, I agree that what Bernadette says is true. Only after leaving and fully evaluating my experience and involvement was I able to face this possibility.
However, I stand by my former post. Even though we were set up to lose. Even though we were manipulated into an elaborate con game. There was that burning hope. That sense of self that is spiritual and pure and good. To get through the absurdities that became part of our standard routine we DID have to consult our most trusting and faithful and purely spiritual selves. For this I have no regrets. I don't know if I would have found this elsewhere. The simple fact is I didn't. I found it in the belly of the beast that was and is the church of Scientology. The truth is, it wasn't all bad because each of you were part of it, and you added grace to the organization by being part of it. I am glad we all escaped or were emancipated, but I also am truly grateful that we ALL experienced it because we found each other here. I know that's theetie wheetie. I don't care. I'm glad I arrived where I am. Here. With you.

Hi Vin,

Although I believe that things are becoming worse, I believe that Scientology has been a suppressive group for a very long time.

"MY OWN DECLARATIONS"
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=4463

Although the above thread is very much based on my healing as an Ex Sea Org member, there is a great deal of evidence that the foundations upon which the entire operation was built, was/is suppressive.

I think of a stick and a rope and a carrot, hanging out in front of a starving horse......the horse will never get the carrot and will eventually die of starvation. But the rider gets to arrive at his/her destination at the horses expense.

People long to become better/happier people. Scientology promises this to it's public.

IMO, Scientology is suppressive because it has been run by suppressive people who make sure that the people they serve never become better people. Perhaps more arrogant people, but not better/happier.

Just keep holding out that carrot and they will keep paying!

Scientology gains what it ultimately sought to gain.....money and power over others.

DM is an SP by LRH's defintion. (He should know one, because I believe he was one.) DM has destroyed more than he has built in terms of fulfilled lives.

But, they have money and power! So, he can consider himself a success.

It is no mistake that he is the way he is. He is the proverbial product of Scientology.

My two cents.

 

[Axiom142]

I think CofS is extremely suppressive. It doesn't just kinda do some stuff some of the time- it constantly breaks promises, rips people off and worse. It's just never going to be ok. This organization needs to go away.

But Fluffy,

At least the CoS is consistent, you have to give them that.

It might need to go away, but it won't do that willingly. Perhaps we could wish for it being put away (as in the slammer) instead?

Axiom142

 

[Good twin]

Oh my gosh.
I suppose you ARE my favorite Axiom. Thank you for this.

So right Vinay!

I think hope is in rather short supply in the orgs right now.

I had a very similar realisation to yours, about a year ago. After all the years I had spend believing in Scientology, to suddenly realise that I could never achieve what I had dreamed of, was a devastating experience.

Of course, I felt used, abused and betrayed, but it was the thought that I could no longer keep making excuses for the ‘Church of Scientology’ and why it wasn’t delivering, that was the most soul-destroying. It couldn’t deliver because of it’s inherent nature. The suppression of self-determinism was very apparent and one of the things that I objected to the most. It is one of the reasons that I chose Axiom142 as my nom de plume.

Speaking of betrayal, I just noticed a couple of hours ago, that I still have an A4-sized piece of paper with a Hubbard Quote on it, pinned to the wall in front of me. It has been there so long, I have ceased to notice it. On it, it has ‘The Aims of Scientology’ and near the end it says:

“Man suspects all offers of help. He has often been betrayed, his confidence shattered. Too frequently he has given his trust and been betrayed. We may err, for we build a world with broken straws. But we will never betray your faith in us so long as you are one of us.”

(emphasis added)

Has this promise been kept?

Axiom142

 

[Axiom142]

Oh my gosh.
I suppose you ARE my favorite Axiom. Thank you for this.

You are welcome GT,

But I didn't mean to make you cry.

Being betrayed when you completely trust someone or in this case something, can be a very painful experience.

But perhaps I was at least partly to blame. I wanted to believe so much, I ignored all the contrary indications, overlooked the absurdities, forgave the broken promises. And I'm not the only one with broken dreams.

I got off lightly, not everyone will get out with their life, or sanity intact.

Axiom142

 

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Doublespeak is all over the place!

...deleted text...

Speaking of betrayal, I just noticed a couple of hours ago, that I still have an A4-sized piece of paper with a Hubbard Quote on it, pinned to the wall in front of me. It has been there so long, I have ceased to notice it. On it, it has ‘The Aims of Scientology’ and near the end it says:

“Man suspects all offers of help. He has often been betrayed, his confidence shattered. Too frequently he has given his trust and been betrayed. We may err, for we build a world with broken straws. But we will never betray your faith in us so long as you are one of us.”

(emphasis added)

Has this promise been kept?

Axiom142

Looking at the sentence in bold...in a "new unit of time"... WTF! Is he saying if someone changes their minds, departs, and is no longer "one of us" that they are then "fair game" and can be betrayed?

Yeah, it's always a good idea to look something over in a new unit of time...you just might find all sorts of stuff you never "duplicated" before. Just sayin'....

A pretty shrewd old physician once told me the following: "Son, man does not need language to communicate - he needs language to deceive!" I should have kept that in mind as I set out on my dn/scn "adventure"!

Roy/EP

 

[Axiom142]

Looking at the sentence in bold...in a "new unit of time"... WTF! Is he saying if someone changes their minds, departs, and is no longer "one of us" that they are then "fair game" and can be betrayed?

Yeah, it's always a good idea to look something over in a new unit of time...you just might find all sorts of stuff you never "duplicated" before. Just sayin'....

A pretty shrewd old physician once told me the following: "Son, man does not need language to communicate - he needs language to deceive!" I should have kept that in mind as I set out on my dn/scn "adventure"!

Roy/EP

Roy,

When I was typing it I had the same thought.

It could certainly be construed that way, couldn't it? If Hubbard was really such a nice person, why not just say "But we will never betray your faith in us." Sounds like a veiled threat in there, doesn't it?

I hadn't noticed this before either. You are absolutely right about looking over stuff in a new unit of time. I wonder what other 'interesting' statements we can find?

Axiom142

 

[EP - Ethics Particle]

You're gonna be surprised, dear Ax,

Roy,

When I was typing it I had the same thought.

It could certainly be construed that way, couldn't it? If Hubbard was really such a nice person, why not just say "But we will never betray your faith in us." Sounds like a veiled threat in there, doesn't it?

I hadn't noticed this before either. You are absolutely right about looking over stuff in a new unit of time. I wonder what other 'interesting' statements we can find?

Axiom142

Hate to use such a coarse analogy kids - but that kinda stuff; it's all over the place - just like stink on shit.

And I, who should have known better, totally missed it for over 15 years.

Roy, the commlaggy EPer!