Thanks for the ESMB Housecleaning, Emma

[Lurker5]

Thanks, GB

Sweetness...WOW.

I had no idea. How awful for you there. How much things have changed in the US just in the last 5 years.

It's not like that here. It's so opposite of that, you can't even imagine.

Like - guys in pubs here think it's normal to say the most explicit things. They never even heard of a pickup line. Ugh! So that's not offensive here.

And bashing someone's culture, that's fair dinkem, just being playful. And heated arguments are normal, too.

There's no need for so much caution. Sorry, of all people, I should have caught on. But I really didn't know what everyone was so upset about.

Emma is probably asleep, I am just having a bout of insomnia at the moment. I can't speak for Emma, but -

Geez, she only meant don't blow off the Newbies. Zinj is only banned for 2 wks. The threads are still there, you know. In my mind, I think everyone will come back once they cool off. If they don't, then it's for other reasons, like - maybe needing to get a life going outside the Internet.

So ask Emma what she means by being nice. Get it clarified. And nobody is making the decision but Emma, you know? And Emma is really easy going on this stuff. She's just a little concerned about Newbies. That's ALL.

Ask her. Don't leave, just get it clarified. EVERYTHING WILL BE OKAY.

Thanks, GB, Whew . . .

 

[Gadfly]

No. You are certainly free to disagree. Social conditioning is brainwashing. I take your point that fundamentalist christians may be "nice people". I've known a few. Nonetheless they are "fixed" in their views precisely because of social conditioning. My point stands.

Mark A. Baker
p.s. nor did I suggest "banning".

Nearly EVERYBODY on planet Earth is "fixed" in their views in some way, and yes usually because of some form of "social conditioning" (often intentional, and often unintentional, but it works anyways). That will ALWAYS exist as long as there are at least two people who agree on a certain viewpoint and want at least one other person to share it with them.

The ONLY solution is for people to become aware of the conditioning, through education of appropriate materials, and through conscious introspection of ones own mental terrain. There is no other way to address and handle it.

That does NOT happen in the Church of Scientology, and has no such aim in almost ANY part of the subject (despite the assertions and claims of its author).

+

 

[degraded being]

My two cents:

As a Newbie, I was hesitant to come to this board, god forbid, it was the board that kept coming up with stuff I wasn't supposed to read when I did a search on the Internet about anything to so with Scientology. I had years of indoc about how this site, in particular, was not the site to come to.

Even when I got out it took me months to come here. The person who helped me the most, the one who got me to post here in the first place was,
Alanzo.

He spent hours and hours with me on the phone. He listened so kindly, so gently, and he and he alone got me to finally come here.

Now, I can see how Emma got pushed to the limit. I understand how she got pushed into a corner and that is unfortunate.

Although Emma never said Alanzo was uncivil or that this was the reason that she was banning him, others seem to think that is the case and for the record, I think he was one of the more civil here, actually.

Frankly, the gloating about how the troublemakers are gone is rather unbecoming.

Yeah the gloating by the high horse riders is ironic since better manners was supposedly the goal.

 

[Student of Trinity]

You act like CofS members are strange bugs or something.

To be candid, some of them do seem pretty strange to me. But mostly I just feel as though ex-Scientologists are like people from another country. I try hard not to take anything for granted, because I know that I know very little about their background.

People only recently out of the CofS seem like recent immigrants to the land I live in. They speak, as it were, with a strong accent. They seem to have some serious misconceptions about how some things work. And they seem pretty uncomfortable, as though they were wishing that their new country had more of the good parts of home — or that home had had more of the good parts of here, so they wouldn't have had to leave it. Most of all they seem lonely.

People who have been out for a long time are like successful naturalized citizens who speak my language fluently and are obviously doing well here; but when they get together with fellow expatriots, in places like this, I know that what they all share is stuff I know hardly at all.

So I try to listen respectfully and presume as little as possible. I'm not really looking at everyone as if they were bugs. But I suppose I am trying hard to be prepared to not bat an eye, if somebody should somehow pop out an antenna. Maybe that comes across much the same.

If so, I'm sorry.

 

[degraded being]

The people are what make ESMB worth being here for.

When they are here.

 

[AlphOhm]

To be candid, some of them do seem pretty strange to me. But mostly I just feel as though ex-Scientologists are like people from another country. I try hard not to take anything for granted, because I know that I know very little about their background.

People only recently out of the CofS seem like recent immigrants to the land I live in. They speak, as it were, with a strong accent. They seem to have some serious misconceptions about how some things work. And they seem pretty uncomfortable, as though they were wishing that their new country had more of the good parts of home — or that home had had more of the good parts of here, so they wouldn't have had to leave it. Most of all they seem lonely.

People who have been out for a long time speak my language fluently and are obviously doing well here; but when they get together with fellow expatriots, in places like this, I know that what they all share is stuff I know hardly at all.

So I try to listen respectfully and presume as little as possible. I'm not really looking at everyone as if they were bugs. But I suppose I am trying hard to be prepared to not bat an eye, if somebody should somehow pop out an antenna. Maybe that comes across much the same.

If so, I'm sorry.

This sounds like dub-in and an attempt to Dev-T us with generalities.




/muffled rofl


How many "newly outs" have you had interaction with prior to painting this picture?

 

[SweetnessandLight]

ALSO FREE ! Not only Alanzo and Zinji BUT let us free EMMA any and all MOD's ! Not to be left out-let us FREE all those caught up in the Sea Org--Class 5 orgs-Class 4 and below--can't forget the Missions-oops almost forgot the St. Hills and the AOs."Let Freedom Ring"--someone else said that awhile ago. And let us not forget the history of Australia and the USA where those imprisoned in England were sent to be free of jail and religious persecution---"OH CRAP"-- let us FREE everyone of all injustices--evil do-ers--and the unfortunates----"Give Peace a Chance"--someone else said that first. WE who have experienced the cos and it's failure of letting all folks be free want -LOVE-PEACE-and JUSTICE--even the "hotties" want to be free to be themselves and not just to be enslaved in being stereotyped by the misogynists. Of course all the above is a "dream" but aren't we ALL "dreamers" of what should be but isn't.

AMEN Uncle Same...Amen! More Freedom for all!

 

[TG1]

I dunno ... I'm a member of several boards and discussion groups and listservs on things non-Scientological.

And I gotta say ... the Scientological-topical boards are full of some of the touchiest, most easily butt-hurt people it has ever been my pleasure to communicate with digitally. And some of the most hysterical. And sullen. And downright mean.

And, of course, none of the above, either.

Mick Wenlock wrote a post today over at http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=522079&postcount=13 in response to a question from Mike Laws about what XSO folks go through after leaving the Co$. For the moment at least, Mick's post is helping me interpret what I've seen going on here this last week or so.

Most of the time, I have just wished that the most excitable people here would just STFU and HTFU and get on with the deal of working out your own shit while being reasonably nice to newbies and otherwise feeling free to speak your mind. Which is all I heard Emma saying. Anybody really, really, really heard her say anything different? I thought not.

Anyway, like I said, I'm meditating on Mick's post. If you haven't read it, you might find it interesting as well.

TG1

 

[SweetnessandLight]

I would say that giving food relief, education, shelter, medical attention, and fast responses to humanitarian disasters are valid purposes to serve.

Me too, Smilla! I like a religion with practical ministries that really WORK on improving conditions for all. Been very fortunate to be associated with some!

 

[Sindy]

I dunno ... I'm a member of several boards and discussion groups and listservs on things non-Scientological.

And I gotta say ... the Scientological-topical boards are full of some of the touchiest, most easily butt-hurt people it has ever been my pleasure to communicate with digitally. And some of the most hysterical. And sullen. And downright mean.

And, of course, none of the above, either.

Mick Wenlock wrote a post today over at http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=522079&postcount=13 in response to a question from Mike Laws about what XSO folks go through after leaving the Co$. For the moment at least, Mick's post is helping me interpret what I've seen going on here this last week or so.

Most of the time, I have just wished that the most excitable people here would just STFU and HTFU and get on with the deal of working out your own shit while being reasonably nice to newbies and otherwise feeling free to speak your mind. Which is all I heard Emma saying. Anybody really, really, really heard her say anything different? I thought not.

Anyway, like I said, I'm meditating on Mick's post. If you haven't read it, you might find it interesting as well.

TG1

I like it!

 

[SweetnessandLight]

To be candid, some of them do seem pretty strange to me. But mostly I just feel as though ex-Scientologists are like people from another country. I try hard not to take anything for granted, because I know that I know very little about their background.

People only recently out of the CofS seem like recent immigrants to the land I live in. They speak, as it were, with a strong accent. They seem to have some serious misconceptions about how some things work. And they seem pretty uncomfortable, as though they were wishing that their new country had more of the good parts of home — or that home had had more of the good parts of here, so they wouldn't have had to leave it. Most of all they seem lonely.

People who have been out for a long time are like successful naturalized citizens who speak my language fluently and are obviously doing well here; but when they get together with fellow expatriots, in places like this, I know that what they all share is stuff I know hardly at all.

So I try to listen respectfully and presume as little as possible. I'm not really looking at everyone as if they were bugs. But I suppose I am trying hard to be prepared to not bat an eye, if somebody should somehow pop out an antenna. Maybe that comes across much the same.

If so, I'm sorry.

Excellent analogy, Trin!!! I hate to admit this but I have always felt I had to keep one eye open on my Scientologist friends over the years...some of them have gone off the rails a bit. Pretty sure no one will pop out an antenna tho...

 

[Panda Termint]

Don't be sorry, that's a pretty spot-on analogy.

 

[Terril park]

To be candid, some of them do seem pretty strange to me. But mostly I just feel as though ex-Scientologists are like people from another country. I try hard not to take anything for granted, because I know that I know very little about their background.

People only recently out of the CofS seem like recent immigrants to the land I live in. They speak, as it were, with a strong accent. They seem to have some serious misconceptions about how some things work. And they seem pretty uncomfortable, as though they were wishing that their new country had more of the good parts of home — or that home had had more of the good parts of here, so they wouldn't have had to leave it. Most of all they seem lonely.

People who have been out for a long time are like successful naturalized citizens who speak my language fluently and are obviously doing well here; but when they get together with fellow expatriots, in places like this, I know that what they all share is stuff I know hardly at all.

So I try to listen respectfully and presume as little as possible. I'm not really looking at everyone as if they were bugs. But I suppose I am trying hard to be prepared to not bat an eye, if somebody should somehow pop out an antenna. Maybe that comes across much the same.

If so, I'm sorry.

I very much appreciate your posts. Very interesting perspective.

 

[Terril park]

I dunno ... I'm a member of several boards and discussion groups and listservs on things non-Scientological.

And I gotta say ... the Scientological-topical boards are full of some of the touchiest, most easily butt-hurt people it has ever been my pleasure to communicate with digitally. And some of the most hysterical. And sullen. And downright mean.

And, of course, none of the above, either.

Mick Wenlock wrote a post today over at http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=522079&postcount=13 in response to a question from Mike Laws about what XSO folks go through after leaving the Co$. For the moment at least, Mick's post is helping me interpret what I've seen going on here this last week or so.

Most of the time, I have just wished that the most excitable people here would just STFU and HTFU and get on with the deal of working out your own shit while being reasonably nice to newbies and otherwise feeling free to speak your mind. Which is all I heard Emma saying. Anybody really, really, really heard her say anything different? I thought not.

Anyway, like I said, I'm meditating on Mick's post. If you haven't read it, you might find it interesting as well.

TG1

Please ask Mick to post it here.

 

[Panda Termint]

He DID post it here, Terril. It's on the appropriate thread.
click it and see http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=522079&postcount=13
It is, indeed, an excellent post!!!!

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Nearly EVERYBODY on planet Earth is "fixed" in their views in some way, and yes usually because of some form of "social conditioning" (often intentional, and often unintentional, but it works anyways). That will ALWAYS exist as long as there are at least two people who agree on a certain viewpoint and want at least one other person to share it with them.

No argument.

The ONLY solution is for people to become aware of the conditioning, through education of appropriate materials, and through conscious introspection of ones own mental terrain. There is no other way to address and handle it.

No argument.

That does NOT happen in the Church of Scientology, ...

No argument.

... and has no such aim in almost ANY part of the subject (despite the assertions and claims of its author).

+

Finally a point of at least "quasi" disagreement!

I find the basic tech extremely useful for the purpose indicated. However, I agree the tendency all to often within the church is to brainwash members into a belief in the "inherent 'rightness' of the tech" (and of course Hubbard) as opposed to actual use of the tech of auditing for the purpose of deliberate & conscious introspection on the nature of one's own individual conditioning. Although, when this does happen it can be quite effective.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Mark A. Baker]

To be candid, some of them do seem pretty strange to me. But mostly I just feel as though ex-Scientologists are like people from another country. I try hard not to take anything for granted, because I know that I know very little about their background. ...

No argument. Although here in california they aren't all that strange in the sense of being all that different from others in the community. We've got all kinds.


Mark A. Baker

 

[me myself & i]

I appreciate it. It's made a big difference. It's all very well to put some noisemaker on ignore, but then people I don't have on ignore insist on quoting the crap and responding to it with their own posts, so it never really goes away.

Banning the culprit(s) and closing superfluous threads works.

Paul

Housecleaning? Really?


If what you say below is true (which I trust is true, for you)...

It's all very well to put some noisemaker on ignore, but then people I don't have on ignore insist on quoting the crap and responding to it with their own posts, so it never really goes away.

...and if Emma banned 'all of the people/culprits you don't have on ignore' would the house you speak of be more satisfying (you know the EX-SCIENTOLOGISTS one)?

No need to answer. Rhetorical question. Irony invisible to some eyes.

If I call your post 'pathetic' will I be in danger of being banned too?

No problem, so long as no 'other culprits' quote my response you will not have to suffer the horrible exposure to it anyway, thanks to your ignore list.

<EDIT>

Mojo

 

[Mark A. Baker]

What some of you may not understand is this...here in America we have a huge issue with what is called "Political Correctness"...aka "being nice" or limiting ourselves to "Civil discourse". It's a really big button for us right now no matter which side of the debate we sit on.

BS, SnL.

The person who taught me to be civil in public was my mother. She was one of the most "politically incorrect" people I have ever known as well as a grand master of the "left-handed complement".

The button common in the u.s. since the sixties is unwarranted aggression masquerading as "speaking the truth to da' man".

There is no justification for deliberate personal incivility. There are other ways to communicate a valid point.


Mark A. Baker

 

[The Great Zorg]

Um, Em, er,... who got banned? I see Alonzo is on vacation. What else did I miss?

I thought that you could not get banned from ESMB if you have 7,000 stars. Or maybe that's just complacency? :confused2: