Commander Birdsong
Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
"fuhr gezint"?
lol, i like that...
are you yiddishe lakey?
"fuhr gezint"?
lol, i like that...
are you yiddishe lakey?
The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But
- Thread starter lkwdblds
- Start date
- Status
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
but again lakey...
i'm not hubbard's follower nor am i a loyalist neither would i care to be called his apologist nor even his counsel of record on esmb
i am an honest student and practitioner of materials published above the LRH/CSI imprimatur
but again lakey...
i'm not hubbard's follower nor am i a loyalist neither would i care to be called his apologist nor even his counsel of record on esmb
i am an honest student and practitioner of materials published above the LRH/CSI imprimatur
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
and if you're really miffed it's "...in all love and kindness, fuhr gezint"
but it takes "fur elise" to go godfather on the meshugannahs...
and if you're really miffed it's "...in all love and kindness, fuhr gezint"
but it takes "fur elise" to go godfather on the meshugannahs...
Gib
Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
What a thought stopping word that the Hubbard thing came up with.
Natter is a instant no open mind or critical analysis of the subject.
BOOM!
right then and there when a scientologist talking to another scientologist about some outpoints,
NATTER.
Boom, no analysis allowed, it's go to source, or LRH the god. Oh, how so subtle it is.
What a thought stopping word that the Hubbard thing came up with.
Natter is a instant no open mind or critical analysis of the subject.
BOOM!
right then and there when a scientologist talking to another scientologist about some outpoints,
NATTER.
Boom, no analysis allowed, it's go to source, or LRH the god. Oh, how so subtle it is.
lkwdblds
Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
What you wrote is pretty much the truth in COS. If it has to do with criticizing Hubbard , DM, COS or a staff member or public scientologist whose stats are up, then it is 100% true. However, for criticizing other people or groups they do make a distinction between Natter and a Knowledge Report.
To be considered a Knowledge Report, something has to be described as to TIME, PLACE, FORM and EVENT. If you write out a complaint in a format containing those 4 items, Execs and Ethics officers will tend to look at those as legitimate complaints. Once again, I stress that even if put in the form of TIME, PLACE, FORM and EVENT, all efforts to write a Knowledge Report on Hubbard, DM, any Scn Staff Member whose stats are up, or any Scientology Org in general or Scientology Inc taken as a whole are all taken to be NAtTER.
Example: At 3:00 PM January 20, 2015.I placed my wallet in my top desk drawer with $ 50 in it. Bill Smith entered the room for a D of P interview toe be done by me. At 3:03 PM, just as we were starting, my junior, James Allen asked me to step outside the room so he could give me an important message which had just arrived for me. I spoke to James for 3 minutes and returned to the room at 3:06 and conducted the interview on Bill Smith, ending at 3:30. Smith left the room immediately to see the Examiner. About 4:00 PM, I decided to leave and took my wallet from my desk to put in my pocket and noticed that the $50 was no longer there. The only person who could have taken the money is Bill Smith. This is true.
As you infer in your post above, the fact that legitimate complaints are usually considered NATTER, prevents Scientology Orgs and Execs from any self correction. With no self correction, the Orgs and Execs deal in a tremendous amount of non truths and because they do that, they are continually inventing shore stories and false statistics in an attempt to make themselves right!
Lakey
What you wrote is pretty much the truth in COS. If it has to do with criticizing Hubbard , DM, COS or a staff member or public scientologist whose stats are up, then it is 100% true. However, for criticizing other people or groups they do make a distinction between Natter and a Knowledge Report.
To be considered a Knowledge Report, something has to be described as to TIME, PLACE, FORM and EVENT. If you write out a complaint in a format containing those 4 items, Execs and Ethics officers will tend to look at those as legitimate complaints. Once again, I stress that even if put in the form of TIME, PLACE, FORM and EVENT, all efforts to write a Knowledge Report on Hubbard, DM, any Scn Staff Member whose stats are up, or any Scientology Org in general or Scientology Inc taken as a whole are all taken to be NAtTER.
Example: At 3:00 PM January 20, 2015.I placed my wallet in my top desk drawer with $ 50 in it. Bill Smith entered the room for a D of P interview toe be done by me. At 3:03 PM, just as we were starting, my junior, James Allen asked me to step outside the room so he could give me an important message which had just arrived for me. I spoke to James for 3 minutes and returned to the room at 3:06 and conducted the interview on Bill Smith, ending at 3:30. Smith left the room immediately to see the Examiner. About 4:00 PM, I decided to leave and took my wallet from my desk to put in my pocket and noticed that the $50 was no longer there. The only person who could have taken the money is Bill Smith. This is true.
As you infer in your post above, the fact that legitimate complaints are usually considered NATTER, prevents Scientology Orgs and Execs from any self correction. With no self correction, the Orgs and Execs deal in a tremendous amount of non truths and because they do that, they are continually inventing shore stories and false statistics in an attempt to make themselves right!
Lakey
lkwdblds
Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
Sure! I'm surprised it took you 2017 pages of text of the Apollo thread to figure that out. I was born into the faith but my parents weren't all that much into it. They sent me and my brother to Sunday School on Beverly Blvd. in L.A. in 1948 and 1949. Other than that, we didn't go to temple and about the only things we observed were Hanukah and the Passover Seders where we gathered yearly with all the Mispoche (family), Grandparents, Aunts, Uncles, Nieces, Nephes, their in laws, etc. What food we had! It was all home cooked by my Grandma on my Mother's side and a couple of her Cousins.
What a collection of people! The older generation were from Poland, Lithuania, and Latvia on my Mom's side and the Ukraine on my Dad's side. The Ukraine was part of Tsarist Russia when my grandparents lived there from 1882 to 1897. By 1897, they all had come over to the USA.
My Grandma on my Dad's side was from a small town near the large town of Odessa, on the Black Sea in Russia. Jewish women in Russia in the 1880's were not given birth certificates nor did they get schooling in the Russian elementary schools. Because of these restrictions, the only language my Grandma knew was Yiddish because she lived totally within the confines of the Jewish ghetto in her hometown of Rodamisal, near Odessa. My Grandma lived from 1884 to 1989, dying in Anaheim, CA in 1989 one month shy of 105.
She spoke a few words of Russian which she needed to know to use when shopping or dealing with Russian Officials. When she came to the USA, she took classes in English but was never really very good at speaking English, despite living in the USA for 92 years. Neither my brother, my cousins nor me could understand my Grandma so when it was time to send us to Hebrew School for our Bar Mitzvahs. someone recommended that brother and I study Yiddish instead of Hebrew at something call the Workman's Circle (Arbiter Ring in Yiddish and German). It turned out that the Workman's CIrcle was a Communist Front Group of sorts but that did not stop my brother and I froim attending from about late 1951 to late 1953. We had a very good teacher, a man named Isadore Traister, I will never forget him, he was a very nice man and a good teacher. I got Bar Mitzvahed in Yiddish in December of 1953.
Basically, that was the end of my Jewish education. I learned a lot of songs while in Sunday School in the late 40's and still remember most of the lyrics and melodies. At Workman's Circle, we sang many of the same songs but in Yiddish instead of Hebrew. As it turned out, around the age of 16 I started to get interested in Germany and at age 17 in classical music. I did not know that Yiddish was actually a dialect based mainly on German. I heard it said that the composition of Yiddish was about 80% German, 15% Hebrew and 5% Russian with some Polish and English words added into the 5% portion.
German is so different from Yiddish and yet about 80% of the words are the same. If there are past lives, most of my living for the last 600 years or so was in German Speaking lands. That's what I ran in my auditing. Whether its really true or not, I am not 100% sure but what the hell, it seems right. There is definitely a connection, put it that way!! I feel for Germany as if it is my land. I feel a lot of pride for German achievements but then the fact that they obeyed Hitler and did so much destruction in WWII cuts right across that pride. That phase of German history is really a stain against the German nation and people. The current regime there has handled things well since the end of WWII and the stigma that Germans are evil, which was never true, is not considered to be true anymore by the general public.
Lakey
Sure! I'm surprised it took you 2017 pages of text of the Apollo thread to figure that out. I was born into the faith but my parents weren't all that much into it. They sent me and my brother to Sunday School on Beverly Blvd. in L.A. in 1948 and 1949. Other than that, we didn't go to temple and about the only things we observed were Hanukah and the Passover Seders where we gathered yearly with all the Mispoche (family), Grandparents, Aunts, Uncles, Nieces, Nephes, their in laws, etc. What food we had! It was all home cooked by my Grandma on my Mother's side and a couple of her Cousins.
What a collection of people! The older generation were from Poland, Lithuania, and Latvia on my Mom's side and the Ukraine on my Dad's side. The Ukraine was part of Tsarist Russia when my grandparents lived there from 1882 to 1897. By 1897, they all had come over to the USA.
My Grandma on my Dad's side was from a small town near the large town of Odessa, on the Black Sea in Russia. Jewish women in Russia in the 1880's were not given birth certificates nor did they get schooling in the Russian elementary schools. Because of these restrictions, the only language my Grandma knew was Yiddish because she lived totally within the confines of the Jewish ghetto in her hometown of Rodamisal, near Odessa. My Grandma lived from 1884 to 1989, dying in Anaheim, CA in 1989 one month shy of 105.
She spoke a few words of Russian which she needed to know to use when shopping or dealing with Russian Officials. When she came to the USA, she took classes in English but was never really very good at speaking English, despite living in the USA for 92 years. Neither my brother, my cousins nor me could understand my Grandma so when it was time to send us to Hebrew School for our Bar Mitzvahs. someone recommended that brother and I study Yiddish instead of Hebrew at something call the Workman's Circle (Arbiter Ring in Yiddish and German). It turned out that the Workman's CIrcle was a Communist Front Group of sorts but that did not stop my brother and I froim attending from about late 1951 to late 1953. We had a very good teacher, a man named Isadore Traister, I will never forget him, he was a very nice man and a good teacher. I got Bar Mitzvahed in Yiddish in December of 1953.
Basically, that was the end of my Jewish education. I learned a lot of songs while in Sunday School in the late 40's and still remember most of the lyrics and melodies. At Workman's Circle, we sang many of the same songs but in Yiddish instead of Hebrew. As it turned out, around the age of 16 I started to get interested in Germany and at age 17 in classical music. I did not know that Yiddish was actually a dialect based mainly on German. I heard it said that the composition of Yiddish was about 80% German, 15% Hebrew and 5% Russian with some Polish and English words added into the 5% portion.
German is so different from Yiddish and yet about 80% of the words are the same. If there are past lives, most of my living for the last 600 years or so was in German Speaking lands. That's what I ran in my auditing. Whether its really true or not, I am not 100% sure but what the hell, it seems right. There is definitely a connection, put it that way!! I feel for Germany as if it is my land. I feel a lot of pride for German achievements but then the fact that they obeyed Hitler and did so much destruction in WWII cuts right across that pride. That phase of German history is really a stain against the German nation and people. The current regime there has handled things well since the end of WWII and the stigma that Germans are evil, which was never true, is not considered to be true anymore by the general public.
Lakey
Last edited:
programmer_guy
True Ex-Scientologist
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
Sunday school?
I thought the Jewish Sabbath was Saturday. :confused2:
Sunday school?
I thought the Jewish Sabbath was Saturday. :confused2:
lkwdblds
Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
It is but what does that have to do with Sunday School? The Sabbath starts at sundown and Friday and goes to sundown on Saturday. During that time a person isn't supposed to use any machinery or drive in a car or things like that. Going to school by car would also be a no-no. Our Sunday school was Sunday morning from perhaps 9:30 AM to 12:00 Noon. We had to wear slacks, dress shoes and a nice shirt to Sunday school. We had about 1 hour of Jewish history, I hour of in the auditorium singing Jewish songs with all the classes at the Temple present and I remember we spent some time learning Hebrew, perhaps 30 minutes.
Three things I remember:
1. Our Teacher was a young guy, 22 or 23 who drove to class on a motorcycle; there is a good chance that he was attending college somewhere in L.A.
2. Our textbook was called, "When the Jewish People Was Young" Someone in class spoke up and pointed out that the title was in incorrect English and should be "When the Jewish People Were Young" The Teacher thought about it for 10 seconds or so, and then he decided that the title was correct as it was. He stated that the word "People" was being used to represent an entire "People", not just one person. Using his line of thinking, the plural form would be "Peoples", such a in, "Africa is the home to many dark skinned Peoples,"
Our class was all third graders, either 8 or 9 years old. Only a few agreed with the Teacher while the majority agreed with the student who said the English was incorrect. For my part, if I was writing the title myself I would have used the word "were" and not "was". Even so, the teacher's argument made enough sense that I believed he was correct.
3. This point concerns a philosophical question. We were asked by the teacher, "If the USA went to war against Israel, which side would we root for? We kids were stumped. We were all Americans and our generation was very patriotic, we said our Pledge of Allegiance every Morning and WWII had ended only 3 years ago. We were conditioned to think that the USA came first. We were told that it was a hypothetical question - that the two countries were allies and would never fight and if they did fight, the USA was over a hundred times larger and more powerful and would easily win but we were asked to overlook all that when we considered the question.
Imagine being taught how great the Jewish People are and that we should be very proud of being Jewish. Then we are asked to choose between supporting the USA or Israel an a hypothetical war. I tended towards the USA because I just didn't know enough about Israel and what it was all about. Most members of the class refused to make a choice while some chose to side with the USA and a smaller number chose to side with Israel.
The teacher then asked if we wanted to know what he would do. Everyone eagerly said, "Yes!" He said that he would be drafted into the US Armed forces and would fight for the USA but in his heart he would hope that Israel would win. That answer seemed to resonate with all of the students. We thought that our teacher was very wise.
IMHO, points #2 and #3 above were excellent techniques to educate the kids. The teacher was able to get we students involved in his materials Here it is 67 years later and I never forget either of those two lessons. They've stuck a whole lifetime so that illustrates what good teaching can achieve!
Lakey
Sunday school?
I thought the Jewish Sabbath was Saturday. :confused2:
It is but what does that have to do with Sunday School? The Sabbath starts at sundown and Friday and goes to sundown on Saturday. During that time a person isn't supposed to use any machinery or drive in a car or things like that. Going to school by car would also be a no-no. Our Sunday school was Sunday morning from perhaps 9:30 AM to 12:00 Noon. We had to wear slacks, dress shoes and a nice shirt to Sunday school. We had about 1 hour of Jewish history, I hour of in the auditorium singing Jewish songs with all the classes at the Temple present and I remember we spent some time learning Hebrew, perhaps 30 minutes.
Three things I remember:
1. Our Teacher was a young guy, 22 or 23 who drove to class on a motorcycle; there is a good chance that he was attending college somewhere in L.A.
2. Our textbook was called, "When the Jewish People Was Young" Someone in class spoke up and pointed out that the title was in incorrect English and should be "When the Jewish People Were Young" The Teacher thought about it for 10 seconds or so, and then he decided that the title was correct as it was. He stated that the word "People" was being used to represent an entire "People", not just one person. Using his line of thinking, the plural form would be "Peoples", such a in, "Africa is the home to many dark skinned Peoples,"
Our class was all third graders, either 8 or 9 years old. Only a few agreed with the Teacher while the majority agreed with the student who said the English was incorrect. For my part, if I was writing the title myself I would have used the word "were" and not "was". Even so, the teacher's argument made enough sense that I believed he was correct.
3. This point concerns a philosophical question. We were asked by the teacher, "If the USA went to war against Israel, which side would we root for? We kids were stumped. We were all Americans and our generation was very patriotic, we said our Pledge of Allegiance every Morning and WWII had ended only 3 years ago. We were conditioned to think that the USA came first. We were told that it was a hypothetical question - that the two countries were allies and would never fight and if they did fight, the USA was over a hundred times larger and more powerful and would easily win but we were asked to overlook all that when we considered the question.
Imagine being taught how great the Jewish People are and that we should be very proud of being Jewish. Then we are asked to choose between supporting the USA or Israel an a hypothetical war. I tended towards the USA because I just didn't know enough about Israel and what it was all about. Most members of the class refused to make a choice while some chose to side with the USA and a smaller number chose to side with Israel.
The teacher then asked if we wanted to know what he would do. Everyone eagerly said, "Yes!" He said that he would be drafted into the US Armed forces and would fight for the USA but in his heart he would hope that Israel would win. That answer seemed to resonate with all of the students. We thought that our teacher was very wise.
IMHO, points #2 and #3 above were excellent techniques to educate the kids. The teacher was able to get we students involved in his materials Here it is 67 years later and I never forget either of those two lessons. They've stuck a whole lifetime so that illustrates what good teaching can achieve!
Lakey
Last edited:
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
so...
another infernal operative of The International Jewish Conspiracy eh?
we've got you now...
so...
another infernal operative of The International Jewish Conspiracy eh?
we've got you now...
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
shalom...
shalom...
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
elan vital eh?
vou etes yiddishe; etes-vous frncais aussis?
elan vital eh?
vou etes yiddishe; etes-vous frncais aussis?
lkwdblds
Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
That seems like a older post, can you tell me it's date? As I recall, Carmy wrote a very good post and I just added a few points to it. Elan Vital is a pretty good term to use for Life Force; IMO, it seems better than the word or symbol Theta. I wouldn't change anything in that post; what I wrote then still seems okay at this time.
One thing that has changed for me, regarding big beings is my opinion of Yvonne Jentzch. She did have remarkable leadership skills and great charisma. Also, she did an excellent job in starting up Celebrity Centre in L.A.
Despite those important traits, exhibiting her Big Being abilities, she had a couple of serious shortcomings. First of all, though she was extremely "street smart", I don't think she was all that smart intellectually. She bought into the LRH legend, hook, line and sinker. She was of the school of thought that LRH was a Godlike being who was always right and could do no wrong. Of course in those days, the 70's, there was no internet and all the negatives we now know were not available to us but still, she trusted so much in LRH and his tech that she made some serious errors.
The first thing, which I saw partially at the time but could not see fully until recently. was that LRH did not want any seconds in command and if someone got too popular with the staff and public or got too big of a reputation, LRH would cut them down to size and get rid of them. Yvonne fell into that category and starting in 1972 he began various steps to cut her and many other execs down to size. By early 1978 she was dead. I don't believe LRH intended her to die but she was definitely cut down to size, no longer being the Commanding Officer of Celebrity Centre. A year or so before her death, LRH made her a co-CO, the CO of Promotion while the other Co-CO, Irene, was actually in charge of running the Org.
In 1972 I noticed that LRH was creating many new Flag staff positions such as FBO, LRH Communicator, Flag Rep, Guardian for Finance and Guardian for the entire Org. Often young untrained people were chosen for these posts and then went either to the Apollo or St Hill for a few months of training. Shortly, one of each of these new Flag execs was posted into all the Orgs around the world including Celebrity Centre LA. THE AMAZING THING THAT I NOTICED WAS THAT MOST OF THESE KIDS HAD LITTLE EXPERIENCE RUNNING THINGS AND A MINIMUM AMOUNT OF TRAINING BUT THEY WERE ALL MADE SENIOR TO YVONNE and the other CO's.
I wrote this up to Yvonne in one of my weekly reports, citing it as a major outpoint. Yvonne wrote back to me immediately and set an appointment to meet with me and get my full thoughts on this matter. Not only Yvonne but the CO's of L.A. Day Org, L.A. Foundation, ASHO Day, Asho Foundation and AOLA had all noticed this trend and were talking about it among themselves. Of the 150 staff members at CCLA, to my knowledge I was the only one who noticed that this was happening. The various CO's could do nothing to alter this state of affairs. LRH had intentionally decided to install all these officers at each Org and have them rank higher than the Commanding Officer of all Orgs.
It was not possible for any Exec, no matter how high their rank, to question any of LRH's decisions, so Yvonne was being taken down by LRH. She felt something was wrong but probably was never really aware of what LRH was doing to demote her and the other execs!
That leads into my last point and that concerns Yvonne's health. She had been sleeping only a few hours a night for years and Purple Haze told me that around 1976 when Purple was long gone from the Org and was running a health food sandwich shop on Fairfax Ave. near the CCLA building on La Brea Ave, Yvonne showed her some sort of scary looking growth which had developed on her leg. Purple said that it looked serious and that Yvonne should get it checked by a doctor immediately. Yvonne, told Purple that she was going to go to Flag and get auditing to handle it and did not choose to obtain regular medical treatment.
The growth turned out to be cancerous and by the time Yvonne got to Flag it was terminal and she could not be saved. Yvonne died in 1978, I believe she was only 47 years old at the time. Yvonne considered that SHE was committing an overt act against LRH because she wanted so badly to keep serving him. She also stated that she would return to CCLA in a new body to resume her duties. Of course that never happened either. No one claiming to be Yvonne ever showed up.
So, in a long term view, I would call her a Big Being during the formative stage of CCLA, from about 1969 to 1973. After that, she did not exhibit Big Being qualities by allowing herself to be taken down by LRH, without really understanding that he was doing that to her and then she chose not to properly rest her body over many years and she chose not to take advantage of modern medical practices to prolong her life. The first item, being taken down by LRH she could not control, but as to her health, she was in full control of that and she just did not exercise common sense. It's hard to think of someone as a Big Being when they don't see a doctor when they get sick but instead rely on auditing to handle it for them. I guess one could call her a Big Being who did not always exercise common sense.
BTW, if anybody is angry at me writing this about a deceased COS Icon, point out where I'm going wrong. If I agree with you, I'll change my post.
Lakey
That seems like a older post, can you tell me it's date? As I recall, Carmy wrote a very good post and I just added a few points to it. Elan Vital is a pretty good term to use for Life Force; IMO, it seems better than the word or symbol Theta. I wouldn't change anything in that post; what I wrote then still seems okay at this time.
One thing that has changed for me, regarding big beings is my opinion of Yvonne Jentzch. She did have remarkable leadership skills and great charisma. Also, she did an excellent job in starting up Celebrity Centre in L.A.
Despite those important traits, exhibiting her Big Being abilities, she had a couple of serious shortcomings. First of all, though she was extremely "street smart", I don't think she was all that smart intellectually. She bought into the LRH legend, hook, line and sinker. She was of the school of thought that LRH was a Godlike being who was always right and could do no wrong. Of course in those days, the 70's, there was no internet and all the negatives we now know were not available to us but still, she trusted so much in LRH and his tech that she made some serious errors.
The first thing, which I saw partially at the time but could not see fully until recently. was that LRH did not want any seconds in command and if someone got too popular with the staff and public or got too big of a reputation, LRH would cut them down to size and get rid of them. Yvonne fell into that category and starting in 1972 he began various steps to cut her and many other execs down to size. By early 1978 she was dead. I don't believe LRH intended her to die but she was definitely cut down to size, no longer being the Commanding Officer of Celebrity Centre. A year or so before her death, LRH made her a co-CO, the CO of Promotion while the other Co-CO, Irene, was actually in charge of running the Org.
In 1972 I noticed that LRH was creating many new Flag staff positions such as FBO, LRH Communicator, Flag Rep, Guardian for Finance and Guardian for the entire Org. Often young untrained people were chosen for these posts and then went either to the Apollo or St Hill for a few months of training. Shortly, one of each of these new Flag execs was posted into all the Orgs around the world including Celebrity Centre LA. THE AMAZING THING THAT I NOTICED WAS THAT MOST OF THESE KIDS HAD LITTLE EXPERIENCE RUNNING THINGS AND A MINIMUM AMOUNT OF TRAINING BUT THEY WERE ALL MADE SENIOR TO YVONNE and the other CO's.
I wrote this up to Yvonne in one of my weekly reports, citing it as a major outpoint. Yvonne wrote back to me immediately and set an appointment to meet with me and get my full thoughts on this matter. Not only Yvonne but the CO's of L.A. Day Org, L.A. Foundation, ASHO Day, Asho Foundation and AOLA had all noticed this trend and were talking about it among themselves. Of the 150 staff members at CCLA, to my knowledge I was the only one who noticed that this was happening. The various CO's could do nothing to alter this state of affairs. LRH had intentionally decided to install all these officers at each Org and have them rank higher than the Commanding Officer of all Orgs.
It was not possible for any Exec, no matter how high their rank, to question any of LRH's decisions, so Yvonne was being taken down by LRH. She felt something was wrong but probably was never really aware of what LRH was doing to demote her and the other execs!
That leads into my last point and that concerns Yvonne's health. She had been sleeping only a few hours a night for years and Purple Haze told me that around 1976 when Purple was long gone from the Org and was running a health food sandwich shop on Fairfax Ave. near the CCLA building on La Brea Ave, Yvonne showed her some sort of scary looking growth which had developed on her leg. Purple said that it looked serious and that Yvonne should get it checked by a doctor immediately. Yvonne, told Purple that she was going to go to Flag and get auditing to handle it and did not choose to obtain regular medical treatment.
The growth turned out to be cancerous and by the time Yvonne got to Flag it was terminal and she could not be saved. Yvonne died in 1978, I believe she was only 47 years old at the time. Yvonne considered that SHE was committing an overt act against LRH because she wanted so badly to keep serving him. She also stated that she would return to CCLA in a new body to resume her duties. Of course that never happened either. No one claiming to be Yvonne ever showed up.
So, in a long term view, I would call her a Big Being during the formative stage of CCLA, from about 1969 to 1973. After that, she did not exhibit Big Being qualities by allowing herself to be taken down by LRH, without really understanding that he was doing that to her and then she chose not to properly rest her body over many years and she chose not to take advantage of modern medical practices to prolong her life. The first item, being taken down by LRH she could not control, but as to her health, she was in full control of that and she just did not exercise common sense. It's hard to think of someone as a Big Being when they don't see a doctor when they get sick but instead rely on auditing to handle it for them. I guess one could call her a Big Being who did not always exercise common sense.
BTW, if anybody is angry at me writing this about a deceased COS Icon, point out where I'm going wrong. If I agree with you, I'll change my post.
Lakey
Last edited:
Gizmo
Rabble Rouser
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
scientology seemingly loved to promote those particularly liked at the moment as a " Big Being ". So be it.
It might be more useful to look at all of us as having the potential of becoming this ( fabled ) Big Being & endeavor to help others achieve their potentials.
Perhaps looking on one another as there are no limits to spiritual ( <- for lack of a better word at the moment ) growth would serve us all better.
Not sure this measuring one against the other serves any worthwhile purpose being accomplished.
Yvonne, in my opinion, was a marvelous person who, like us all, wasn't perfect - nor did she ever pretend as if she were!.
I'll always remember her with deep fondness & have my attention on the goodness in her life that she shared with us.
scientology seemingly loved to promote those particularly liked at the moment as a " Big Being ". So be it.
It might be more useful to look at all of us as having the potential of becoming this ( fabled ) Big Being & endeavor to help others achieve their potentials.
Perhaps looking on one another as there are no limits to spiritual ( <- for lack of a better word at the moment ) growth would serve us all better.
Not sure this measuring one against the other serves any worthwhile purpose being accomplished.
Yvonne, in my opinion, was a marvelous person who, like us all, wasn't perfect - nor did she ever pretend as if she were!.
I'll always remember her with deep fondness & have my attention on the goodness in her life that she shared with us.
lkwdblds
Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
She slammed me viciously about 3 times but other than that, she was a fantastic leader with a lot of goodness in her life which she shared with us. To compensate for the 3 times she slammed me, she forgave my $11,000 Freeloader debt to CCLA when I returned from the Apollo. I asked for the opportunity to work 8 hours every Saturday and Sunday for one full year, cleaning up CCLA's treasury back log, in lieu of paying CCLA the $11,000. She agreed to that instantly with no communication lag of any kind. I think her exact words were, "Oh certainly, that sounds fair?" Cutting me that slack was very important to me at that time and and to this day, I still am appreciative of her for doing that. Also, when I went to Flag the first time in Oct, 1977, she came to my room to talk to me and see how I was doing. She was very cordial and friendly and actually still looked vibrant and healthy. Little did I suspect that she had terminal cancer at the time. I'm very glad that our last communication was positive. As a result, I always remembered her as the vibrant and charismatic executive which she was for all of us in the early CCLA days.
Lakey
She slammed me viciously about 3 times but other than that, she was a fantastic leader with a lot of goodness in her life which she shared with us. To compensate for the 3 times she slammed me, she forgave my $11,000 Freeloader debt to CCLA when I returned from the Apollo. I asked for the opportunity to work 8 hours every Saturday and Sunday for one full year, cleaning up CCLA's treasury back log, in lieu of paying CCLA the $11,000. She agreed to that instantly with no communication lag of any kind. I think her exact words were, "Oh certainly, that sounds fair?" Cutting me that slack was very important to me at that time and and to this day, I still am appreciative of her for doing that. Also, when I went to Flag the first time in Oct, 1977, she came to my room to talk to me and see how I was doing. She was very cordial and friendly and actually still looked vibrant and healthy. Little did I suspect that she had terminal cancer at the time. I'm very glad that our last communication was positive. As a result, I always remembered her as the vibrant and charismatic executive which she was for all of us in the early CCLA days.
Lakey
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Gizmo
Rabble Rouser
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
Anyway, to me, " Big Being " seems so scio-speak .
But " As I recall, in my experience of 32 years in COS, there was never any push to concentrate on making people bigger Beings " may pretty much be the ultimate condemnation of the CoS.
Seems, at least to me, that a religion has - or should have to do - with the spirituality and individual growth of the adherents.
Perhaps best illustrated by the time I asked a really nice fellow why he was no longer in the SO. He replied " I joined the SO to help save the planet & one day in the basement of the Fort Harrison as I was hand washing dishes it came to me in flash I wasn't doing anything that resembled clearing anything but a dirty plate so I left ".
Anyway, to me, " Big Being " seems so scio-speak .
But " As I recall, in my experience of 32 years in COS, there was never any push to concentrate on making people bigger Beings " may pretty much be the ultimate condemnation of the CoS.
Seems, at least to me, that a religion has - or should have to do - with the spirituality and individual growth of the adherents.
Perhaps best illustrated by the time I asked a really nice fellow why he was no longer in the SO. He replied " I joined the SO to help save the planet & one day in the basement of the Fort Harrison as I was hand washing dishes it came to me in flash I wasn't doing anything that resembled clearing anything but a dirty plate so I left ".
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
yeah...
tragic foibles...
at fcdc. it was better.
e.g.:
one of my pc's, the dist sec, woke up one morning with a swollen testicle. he went straight to a doctor who diagnosed cancer and put him in the hospital where it was removed. i was dispatched into a heavy snowstorm with my e-meter under my arm and it took a while to find a cabbie willing to take me to the hospital in an outlying area and when i did it cost me more than a day's pay. i'm sure i could have had the org reimburse me but that never occurred to me. i ran a dianetic assist on him got him bright ad shiny and another of my pc's who would be his wife was awaiting to embrace him. it was exceedingly good to find them years later prospering in rural pennsylvania outside philly in a rambling farmhouse with a brilliantly designed garden doing artful craftwork...
and this, dear friend is correct judeo-christian church of american science standards and practice of dianetics; do it goddam fukkin' kosher f'crissakes is what i say lakey...
yeah...
tragic foibles...
at fcdc. it was better.
e.g.:
one of my pc's, the dist sec, woke up one morning with a swollen testicle. he went straight to a doctor who diagnosed cancer and put him in the hospital where it was removed. i was dispatched into a heavy snowstorm with my e-meter under my arm and it took a while to find a cabbie willing to take me to the hospital in an outlying area and when i did it cost me more than a day's pay. i'm sure i could have had the org reimburse me but that never occurred to me. i ran a dianetic assist on him got him bright ad shiny and another of my pc's who would be his wife was awaiting to embrace him. it was exceedingly good to find them years later prospering in rural pennsylvania outside philly in a rambling farmhouse with a brilliantly designed garden doing artful craftwork...
and this, dear friend is correct judeo-christian church of american science standards and practice of dianetics; do it goddam fukkin' kosher f'crissakes is what i say lakey...
lkwdblds
Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
PREACHING TO THE CHOIR?!!
It's funny that both Birdy and Gizmo seem to be arguing with me when they are actually preaching to the choir.
On Gizmo's Big Being point, I agree with all his comments. I just made 2 points to enhance what he was saying. First of all, the term "Big Being" can be looked at two ways. The way Hubbard approached it, IMHO, is that he assummed everyone had a certain finite amount of free spirit, called theta, and a certain amount of theta which was turbulent. Hubbard attempted to turn portions of the turbulent theta into theta with no turbulence. If that was done, the person would act as if he was a bigger being than he was before his auditing.
That is making a Big Being figuratively. I pointed out that one could also look at making a Big Being as adding more theta endowment to what the being already has. I believe that second method of making a Big Being is impossible because IMO each spirit has a limited amount of spiritual endowment.
Gib admitted that he does not read my posts but justs scans them for key words. I see now that Gizmo seems to be operating in that same manner. When one does that, often he ends up preaching to the choir, challenging the person he is communicating with as a foe after the foe has just agreed with him.
I don't know about Birdy, I stand up for Dianetic auditing claiming that it worked on me and dozens of people who I audited on Dianetcis. I've taken a lot of hits here on ESMB taking that stand. Even so, Birdy seems to be asserting to me that Dianetics works in no uncertain terms and again, doing that is like preaching to the choir.
Lakey
PREACHING TO THE CHOIR?!!
It's funny that both Birdy and Gizmo seem to be arguing with me when they are actually preaching to the choir.
On Gizmo's Big Being point, I agree with all his comments. I just made 2 points to enhance what he was saying. First of all, the term "Big Being" can be looked at two ways. The way Hubbard approached it, IMHO, is that he assummed everyone had a certain finite amount of free spirit, called theta, and a certain amount of theta which was turbulent. Hubbard attempted to turn portions of the turbulent theta into theta with no turbulence. If that was done, the person would act as if he was a bigger being than he was before his auditing.
That is making a Big Being figuratively. I pointed out that one could also look at making a Big Being as adding more theta endowment to what the being already has. I believe that second method of making a Big Being is impossible because IMO each spirit has a limited amount of spiritual endowment.
Gib admitted that he does not read my posts but justs scans them for key words. I see now that Gizmo seems to be operating in that same manner. When one does that, often he ends up preaching to the choir, challenging the person he is communicating with as a foe after the foe has just agreed with him.
I don't know about Birdy, I stand up for Dianetic auditing claiming that it worked on me and dozens of people who I audited on Dianetcis. I've taken a lot of hits here on ESMB taking that stand. Even so, Birdy seems to be asserting to me that Dianetics works in no uncertain terms and again, doing that is like preaching to the choir.
Lakey
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
well i'm glad you tell me what you think i'm saying so i can attempt to clarify
dianetics is no absolute by any means. it can be very useful. it can, perhaps, on occaision produce spontaneous remission of cancer but proper medical treatment has a higher batting average. properly used in conjunction with medical treatment is a good way to go
but...
BOTH dianetics and medicine are optional practices...
liberty!
well i'm glad you tell me what you think i'm saying so i can attempt to clarify
dianetics is no absolute by any means. it can be very useful. it can, perhaps, on occaision produce spontaneous remission of cancer but proper medical treatment has a higher batting average. properly used in conjunction with medical treatment is a good way to go
but...
BOTH dianetics and medicine are optional practices...
liberty!
lkwdblds
Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
I agree with you but I would like to add one things which you have not mentioned. I am talking about the element of time. If you catch an illness early, then auditing or perhaps other forms of mental therapy all have a chance of achieving a cure. This is particularly true in the case of cancers, such as breast cancer. A women sees something on her breast which is a bit threatening, she makes an appointment with her doctor ASAP. The doctor tells her, she caught a tumor very early and with the correct treatment she can be cured.
If you ignore that little lump on the breast until it gets worse and go see your doctor 6 months or a year later, as many have, it is too late. No kind of therapy is going to stop a cancer which has got outside of a small local area and makes a bee line for one's lymph glands and vital organs. If it gets to that stage, neither medicine nor mental therapy can stop it.
The secret is to have regular check ups with your Doctor and/or if you see something which looks suspicious, get your ass into the doctor's office and get a battery of tests to see if you have something serious and life threatening. If you are enjoying your life and want to live a long life, regular medical check ups are a must. It is a mandatory survival point!!!
Lakey
I agree with you but I would like to add one things which you have not mentioned. I am talking about the element of time. If you catch an illness early, then auditing or perhaps other forms of mental therapy all have a chance of achieving a cure. This is particularly true in the case of cancers, such as breast cancer. A women sees something on her breast which is a bit threatening, she makes an appointment with her doctor ASAP. The doctor tells her, she caught a tumor very early and with the correct treatment she can be cured.
If you ignore that little lump on the breast until it gets worse and go see your doctor 6 months or a year later, as many have, it is too late. No kind of therapy is going to stop a cancer which has got outside of a small local area and makes a bee line for one's lymph glands and vital organs. If it gets to that stage, neither medicine nor mental therapy can stop it.
The secret is to have regular check ups with your Doctor and/or if you see something which looks suspicious, get your ass into the doctor's office and get a battery of tests to see if you have something serious and life threatening. If you are enjoying your life and want to live a long life, regular medical check ups are a must. It is a mandatory survival point!!!
Lakey
Gib
Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
oh my god, whoa.
I never said that.
(I actually stopped really reading here a few weeks ago since CM-BS was posting a lot. And I just take a look every now and then and don't want to respond to CM-BS, new decision as of late)
Can you show where I said that? that I just look for key words?
I don't even know how to do that. I just post off the cuff.
oh my god, whoa.
I never said that.
(I actually stopped really reading here a few weeks ago since CM-BS was posting a lot. And I just take a look every now and then and don't want to respond to CM-BS, new decision as of late)
Can you show where I said that? that I just look for key words?
I don't even know how to do that. I just post off the cuff.
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