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The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

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Maria Cuervo

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Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

CONFUSION

Hubbard continues the conditions rant:

"The lowest condition is a Condition of Confusion. In a Condition of Confusion, the being or area will be in a state of random motion. There will be no real production, only disorder or confusion. In order to get out of Confusion, one has to find out where he is."

The problem with this suggestion of finding out where you are is that it assumes you already know a) that you are b) who you are. Random motion precludes, logically, the existence of beings and even the unawareness of said beings. It's impossible for beings that don't know they exist to then in any fashion figure out where are. See? It's a pure mess!

Thus this condition requires one be above non-existence since it requires parameters of 'consciousness' that are only available to one who at least knows that he exists and, in some sense even if imperfectly, who he is. For a person who does not know who they are cannot possibly establish their true location in the scheme of things. And a person who does not know that they are cannot possibly establish where they are either.

I won't cite the whole condition of 'confusion' as it can be looked up on Google. I'll only cite the parts relevant to what I find so odd about the condition, and wrong.



The formula for Confusion is:
"Find out where you are.

Note: It is important that the person who is in Confusion be cleared up on the definition of confusion. (This is done before the formula itself is started.)

Definitions:
1. Any set of factors or circumstances which do not seem to have any immediate solution."

A confusion cannot be understood to be a confusion unless some sort of being is present who can discern the difference of confusion or not confusion. Therefore said being would know he exists, and know how to discern states of change within his space, enough to realize a) he is in a space and b) it is disordered. Thus the being would have to be above non-existence to find out where he is! OOPS. That is another sign the conditions are out of order! (As they say in courtrooms).


"More broadly:
A confusion in this universe is random motion. If you were to stand in heavy traffic, you would be likely to feel confused by all the motion whizzing around you. If you were to stand in a heavy storm with leaves and papers flying by, you would be likely to feel confused.
A confusion is only a confusion so long as all particles are in motion. A confusion is only a confusion so long as no factor is clearly defined or understood."

This is really silly since again it implies that the "I" is able to perceive this and is trying to understand. Therefore, the I, as not a particle at all, is aware of itself in failing to understand the particles in confusion. See the mess? Sad logic.


"Confusion is the basic cause of stupidity. A confusion could be called an 'uncontrolled randomness.' Only those who can exert some control over that randomness can handle confusions. Those who cannot exert control actually breed confusions".

There is no way that a being who does not know that he is or who he is (at least on an ad hoc sort of basis of the present moment) could possibly even start to put order into a space. Again, I repeat this point since it is so sadly obvious.

"2. All a confusion is, is unpatterned flow. The particles collide, bounce off each other and stay in the area. Thus there is no product, as to have a product something must flow out."

This definition of course returns us to the idiocy of stats. Because we cannot know what all particles do, we cannot control all particles in the cosmos. But since there is an obsession with particle flow towards stats, it means that one must always judge all particles as to their location, thus where, so they can be 8-Ced, controlled, walked to the stat board etc. But this implies then a consciousness, as I have been repeating over and over, that indeed knows what the correct stat would be, since it does indeed identify that this is unwanted, disorderly, and not stat-productive. Thus again this condition introduces an omniscient being, the OT or whoever, or the idiot, as case may be, who is not at all a particle and who is not even as low as non-existence. It's just a paradox. The person in confusion must be higher than non-existence but lower than liability. This means that basically the conditions are applied by a Thetan to his BTs. There is no other way to read it other than in the weirdest way since that weird way is the only way that actually would make sense. Since every single lower condition REQUIRES an omniscient Thetan that absolutely KNOWS who he is, where he is and that he is, and who then ORDERS and CONTROLS reality by way of working through these states, states that are always external to him. Always. Otherwise the conditions would never work. And keep in mind that i don't believe in OTs or BTs. So therefore we are left with gibberish that I at least can do nothing with. Also, the assumption that a good result is always an outflow is just contra all truth! Some things are received, i.e., gifts! Not only pushed out like crap from an asshole.

The additional formula for the Condition of Confusion is:

1. Locational processing on the area in which one is.
Locational Processing is a Scientology technique done to orient and put a person in communication with his environment. This is done by pointing out certain objects and telling the person to “Look at that ______ (indicated object)” and acknowledging the person when he has done so. The objects could include such things as a tree, a building, a street, etc. This is done until the person is happier and has some kind of realization.
2. Comparing where one is to other areas where one was.
3. Repeat step 1.

This additional funniness is so reminiscent of OT 1 I feel a smile come on, except instead of humans we look for objects like trees. Basically, Thetans are so impoverished that they stress out quite easily and need to look at trees to be able to find out where they are. 'Nuff Said.
 
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Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I've completed the lower conditions.

Thank you, it's a huge gift not to actually have to have DONE them, only to be able to have understood why they are completely insane.

One has to be outside of oneself to do them and detached from life.

Assuming anyone is even vaguely interested, maybe in a day or two I will take up the higher conditions.

By the way, Augustine, the medieval theologian, had a much better conception of higher/lower. But then, that is not our topic. So I will stay focused on Hubbard's conditions and avoid getting into obscure stuff.....

I hope someone was interested as I don't want this to have been engaging in mental masturbation! Since, if it was such, no doubt I will need at least 4 intensives to clear up the masturbation overt. And since i am poor and out of work that would be just awful! It would so much interfere with my spiritual progress!!!!!
 
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lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Confusion

Hubbard continues the conditions rant:

"The lowest condition is a Condition of Confusion. In a Condition of Confusion, the being or area will be in a state of random motion. There will be no real production, only disorder or confusion. In order to get out of Confusion, one has to find out where he is."

The problem with this suggestion of finding out where you are is that it assumes you already know a) that you are b) who you are. Random motion precludes, logically, the existence of beings and even the unawareness of said beings. It's impossible for beings that don't know they exist to then in any fashion figure out where are. See? It's a pure mess!

Thus is condition is above non-existence since it requires parameters of 'consciousness' that are only available to one who at least knows that he exists and in some sense, even if imperfectly, who he is. For a person who does not know who they are cannot possibly establish their true location in the scheme of things. And a person who does not know that they are cannot possibly establish where they are either.

I won't cite the whole condition of 'confusion' as it can be looked up on Google. I'll only cite the parts relevant to what I find so odd about the condition, and wrong.



The formula for Confusion is:
Find out where you are.

Note: It is important that the person who is in Confusion be cleared up on the definition of confusion. (This is done before the formula itself is started.)

Definitions:
1. Any set of factors or circumstances which do not seem to have any immediate solution."

A confusion cannot be understood to be a confusion unless some sort of being is present who can discern the difference of confusion or not confusion. Therefore said being would know he exists, and know how to discern states of change within his space, enough to realize a) he is in a space and b) it is disordered. Thus the being would have to be above non-existence to find out where he is! OOPS. That is another sign the conditions are out of order! (As they say in courtrooms).


"More broadly:
A confusion in this universe is random motion. If you were to stand in heavy traffic, you would be likely to feel confused by all the motion whizzing around you. If you were to stand in a heavy storm with leaves and papers flying by, you would be likely to feel confused.
A confusion is only a confusion so long as all particles are in motion. A confusion is only a confusion so long as no factor is clearly defined or understood.

This is really silly since again it implies that the "I" is able to perceive this and is trying to understand. Therefore, the I, as not a particle at all, is aware of itself in failing to understand the particles in confusion. See the mess? Sad logic.

Confusion is the basic cause of stupidity.
A confusion could be called an “uncontrolled randomness.” Only those who can exert some control over that randomness can handle confusions. Those who cannot exert control actually breed confusions.

There is no way that a being who does not know that he is or who he is (at least on an ad hoc sort of basis of the present moment) could possibly even start to put order into a space. Again, I repeat this point since it is so sadly obvious.

2. All a confusion is, is unpatterned flow. The particles collide, bounce off each other and stay in the area. Thus there is no product, as to have a product something must flow out.

This definition of course returns us to the idiocy of stats. Because we cannot know what all particles do, we cannot control all particles in the cosmos. But since there is an obsession with particle flow towards stats, it means that one must always judge all particles as to their location, thus where, so they can be 8-Ced, controlled, walked to the stat board etc. But this implies then a consciousness, as I have been repeating over and over, that indeed knows what the correct stat would be, since it does indeed identify that this is unwanted, disorderly, and not stat-productive. Thus again this condition introduces an omniscient being, the OT or whoever, or the idiot, as case may be, who is not at all a particle and who is not even as low as non-existence. It's just a paradox. The person in confusion must be higher than non-existence but lower than liability. This means that basically the conditions are applied by a thetan to his BTS. There is no other way to read it other than in the weirdest way since that weird way is the only way that actually would make sense. Since every single lower condition REQUIRES an omniscient thetan that absolutely KNOWS who he is, where he is and that he is, and who then ORDERS and CONTROLS reality by way of working through these states, states that are always external to him. Always. Otherwise the conditions would never work. And keep in mind that i don't believe in OTs or BTS. So therefore we are left with gibberish that I at least can do nothing with.

The additional formula for the Condition of Confusion is:
1. Locational processing on the area in which one is.
Locational Processing is a Scientology technique done to orient and put a person in communication with his environment. This is done by pointing out certain objects and telling the person to “Look at that ______ (indicated object)” and acknowledging the person when he has done so. The objects could include such things as a tree, a building, a street, etc. This is done until the person is happier and has some kind of realization.
2. Comparing where one is to other areas where one was.
3. Repeat step 1.

This is so reminisicent of OT 1 except instead of humans we lok for objects like trees. Baisically, thetans are so impoverished that they stress out quite easily and need to look at trees to be able to find out where they are. 'Nuff Said.

Just a couple of quick comments on what you wrote about the condition of confusion. If you look at Scientology's lower condition formulas, the lowest 3 conditions in order are:

Enemy
Treason
Confusion

By simply reordering them as follows, one would get a better result.

Confusion
Enemy
Treason

The result would be better because the person would at least know "Who he really is" and What he is as regards his post." That's all I wanted to point out. No big deal.
Lakey - P.S. When I wrote this post, I had not seen your other posts above this. Seeing those posts, this little post doesn't say much but since I wrote it, I'll let it stand.
 
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Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Just a couple of quick comments on what you wrote above. Usually conditions are assigned to a person or to a post or group. If assigned to a post or group the person in charge must do the formula. If you look at Scientology's lower condition formulas, the lowest 3 conditions in order are:

Enemy
Treason
Confusion

Enemy is defined as working against your own group or for an opposing group. Its formula is "Find out who you really are".
Treason is defined as "Betrayal of Trust" and its formula is "Know that you are", referring to what post his on which in treason.

I'm looking at your line above: There is no way that a being who does not know that he is or who he is (at least on an ad hoc sort of basis of the present moment) could possibly even start to put order into a space. Again, I repeat this point since it is so sadly obvious.

If what you say above in blue is true, then if the formulas were ordered where Confusion was higher that Enemy, that would make more sense and we would have:
Confusion
Enemy
Treason

If the conditions were reordered in this way, then the person would at least have the knowledge of "Who he really is." and "What he is." Having that knowledge in the present moment would then enable him, at least partially to do some sort of Confusion formula.

I know that your dislike for the Conditions Formulas is far greater than just the Confusion Formula being out of order. Nevertheless, I just want to make the point that putting Confusion, before Enemy and Treason would be better than doing Confusion first. That's all I'm pointing, nothing more and nothing less.
Lakey

Well, yes, the whole thing is bull-pucky...but beyond that, yes, a reordering would at least 'seem' to save face a bit, in light of how silly the conditions actually are : as if human beings can just fix anything that is wrong with them! At any time! Because guess what : I'm CAUSE over matter, energy, space and time!!! Screw the planets, let me just move them around and put them wherever the hell I fkn want! LOLOL. Talk about narcissistic fkn madness.

And that blue prose of yours - of course it is true: please, anyone, ask a speck of dust to put order in your house and see how much order you get from that non-aware particle. It is just TOO obvious.
 
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Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Oh and I blogged this fkn shit. So if anyone wants to hate what I posted, please, come forward, and now bring your complaints! Office hours are 9-5 M-F. Thank you! If it's the weekend please wait and I'll get back to you as soon as never.

Complaint types:

Typos - who cares
Grammatical errors - who cares
Logical errors - I certainly don't care
Support of Scn conditions tech - uh, whatever, go clear MUs and come back later
General Hate - bring it on!
 

Maria Cuervo

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Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I was encouraged to continue posting 'stuff' of interest (or no interest) and I will thank that anonymous 'encourager' now. You know who you are.
No need to come forward. But thank you, it IS amazing what a tiny spot of encouragement will do!

Because, heck, "it will all end in tears" : as any good English mum would tell you. And that alone is reason enough to post.

Thank you very much! (As Andy Kaufmann would say!) (Myself, I'd use 'so' instead of 'very'....sigh.....)

:biggrin:
 
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Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

A clarification: I don't view Ethics 'tech' as part of the tech. (Purely my own opinion: I view SCN ethics tech as an administrative or bureaucratic function of control.)

LOL.

So forgive me for leaving my dear Department (Pasture) of Processing and attempting to decrypt the ugly green volumes (where I would myself place the ugly Ethics tech if given the authority!)
I am SO glad I am NOT an expert of those ugly things! I hate ugly things!

UGGGHHH.
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

OH!! HOW FKN EMBARRASSING! This is ADORABLE!!! FUNNY!

RON (or whoever is channeling him!) says that our topic at hand is PHILOSOPHY!!!! lolol.

Quote from Hubbard:


"These subjects [the ethics conditions/ethics] are, actually, the basis of all philosophy. But in any study of the history of philosophy, it is plain that they have puzzled philosophers for a long time. The early Greek followers of Pythagoras (Greek philosopher of the sixth century B.C.) tried to apply their mathematical theories to the subject of human conduct and ethics. Some time later, Socrates (Greek philosopher and teacher, 470?–399 B.C.) tackled the subject. He demonstrated that all those who were claiming to show people how to live were unable to defend their views or even define the terms they were using. He argued that we must know what courage, and justice, law and government are before we can be brave or good citizens or just or good rulers. This was fine but he then refused to provide definitions. He said that all sin was ignorance but did not take the necessary actions to rid Man of his ignorance.

Socrates’ pupil, Plato (Greek philosopher, 427?–347 B.C.), adhered to his master’s theories but insisted that these definitions could only be defined by pure reason. This meant that one had to isolate oneself from life in some ivory tower and figure it all out—not very useful to the man in the street."

What moronic idiotic stuff is this? Obviously Hubbard had NOT READ Plato or Socrates. I bet Hubbard doesn't even know what the definition is of the word definition for Plato!! (I do!) But I will resist the temptation to discuss philosophy since it's pointless to explain such things to an ANT (CoS). Just as it is pointless to explain it to HUBBARD = Complete imbecile.


"Aristotle (Greek philosopher, 384–322 B.C.) also got involved with ethics. He explained unethical behavior by saying that Man’s rationality became overruled by his desire. This chain continued down the ages. Philosopher after philosopher tried to resolve the subjects of ethics and justice. Unfortunately, until now, there has been no workable solution, as evidenced by the declining ethical level of society. So you see it is no small breakthrough that has been made in this subject. We have defined the terms, which Socrates omitted to do, and we have a workable technology that anyone can use to help get himself out of the mud. The natural laws behind this subject have been found and made available for all to use."

Aristotle is completely MISUNDERSTOOD HERE!!! Amazing!

On a separate point, "Philosophy" is not interested in solutions. It is interested in questions. It lacks the HUBRIS apparently that Hubbard did not since it KNOWS IT DOES NOT KNOW. Believe me, no breakthrough has been made. It makes me chuckle really that they are so naive as to post any of this on their site! Aren't they plain EMBARRASSED???!!!! WOW.

CRINGE WORTHY!!!!

EDIT: The quotes above come from a CoS page of online courses regarding Ethics and the Ethics conditions. What is weird is that I don't think any of it is Hubbard quoted. It's in weird badly phrased English. Maybe its from Sr C/S WUS....overstepping his brain capacity (and to think that might of been MY JOB! Shiver!) The English is POOR which is why I suggested it's that poor WUS C/S fellow, with such intellectual weaknesses, oh well!
 
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Maria Cuervo

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Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

This one is for DM....

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8N-qO3sPMjc[/video]
 
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Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I think for now I will dedicate all future song selections that I ever make on this thread to DM.

:)

{heart}
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

[video=youtube;XpqqjU7u5Yc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpqqjU7u5Yc[/video]

Oh is that ever sweeet.

"It's me you need to show.....how deep is your love...."

Sigh.
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

[video=youtube;3TeiJ4Jsbxo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TeiJ4Jsbxo[/video]

"Maybe I don't want to know the reason why...you don't talk to me...."
"you alone are the living thing that keeps me alive...."

Because I know you love me....
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

[video=youtube;tdCY0CgMoq8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdCY0CgMoq8[/video]
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

OH this is JUST HOW I FEEL...

[video=youtube;g5qU7p7yOY8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5qU7p7yOY8[/video]
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

[video=youtube;ZLaj4VMQfxc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLaj4VMQfxc[/video]
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

[video=youtube;n-D1EB74Ckg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-D1EB74Ckg[/video]
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

[video=youtube;5anLPw0Efmo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5anLPw0Efmo[/video]
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

[video=youtube;UecPqm2Dbes]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UecPqm2Dbes[/video]
 
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