The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[Blue Spirit]

Good Roads...........

If someone believes that Bush brought down those buildings, I pretty much stay away from them. Only polite good roads, good weather but I will not enter into a dialogue with such as person.
Lakey

Paraphrasing LRH: the things that will be done in the future are too unbelievable and so when people find out about them it will be too late.

The WTC buildings were engineered to take a hit from a 707, a heavier aircraft than the one that hit the buildings. There is overwhelming evidence that those buildings were taken down with explosives, including the 3rd building, #7. You can see that one falling on the net. All were done to collect extremely high insurance into the billions from a low millions premium.

The purpose of this carefully crafted conspiracy was to have a Police State and a Perpetual War for a slave state and continual insane profits off of people's miseries.

The pilots were trained at Pensacola Navel Air Station.

Marvin Bush, head of security at the complex resigned IN ADVANCE on 9-11.

Superheated V-shaped steel cuts were found at the scene which were exactly like those from the specific explosive used to drop buildings.

The air traffic and interceptor rules were obfuscated that day by fake drills to confuse the Air Force. As a pilot I know that there should have been fighter jets on each wingtip long before the planes got to New York.

110 story buildings collasped into a rather neat, relatively low pile which could have only been done if the basement levels supports were blown first to allow enough room to hold most of the building wreckage.

Many witnesses heard the series of explosives to take down the buildings.

The fires were out before the explosions and the buildings were still standing.
Airplanes have never taken down any large building. The damage is always localized.

Kerosene burns uncompressed at about 1200-1500 degrees. Steel does not melt until around approximately 5000 degrees.

Look at the Bush family's history, and also Cheney's for the level of Evil needed here.

All of the above is from what I know. If I'd studied it more I'd have much more to say.

There is a group called "Architects and Engineers For 9-11 Truth" which has more technical information.

At the time I noticed that there was the identical banner on each TV Station's screen: "Attack On America", obviously decided in advance from a single source.
Also from the look on President's face when told about the attack, he knew it was coming. I read faces with exceptional skill, for which talent I will most certainly be put down by many here, but I know what I can do.

The key datum to all of the above is LRH saying that "The lowest Confront of all is the Confront of Evil." SO TRUE.

Lakey, it was nice knowing you; thanks for being my friend.

 

[Blue Spirit]

A Small Addition

Roger thank you for that detailed explanation of what happened.

A small addition that might explain his changing attitude toward Dianetics, that I
read on the net, is that he lost control of the trademark "Dianetics" at the time you speak of, I think to Dr. Winter, and later recovered it before then using it again and the Hubbard Standard Dianetics Course came out around that time.

So typical to LRH's insanity, I believe his use of Dianetics was relative to severe disagreements he had with others.

I recall (my sites have become disorganized by computer crashes) also that the
e-meter had a similar problem, and so it was not used for a long period until he regained control of that patent or whatever it was.

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

You're Truly SweetnessandLight

Facey, I keep telling you to write a book about your observations of your time in Scientology... I will help you find a publisher. Seriously.

Thanks SL. What I’m ever gonna write directly about my life and times with El Rony, SO Daze and Scn Trip I’m gonna do on this board and, pretty much, on this thread. Many very good books have been written and will be written by folks more qualified and smarter than li’l ole me.

I like it here with yall. I’m learning, dismantling, decompressing and unloading.

Face

 

[lkwdblds]

We can still talk about the roads and weather

Paraphrasing LRH: the things that will be done in the future are too unbelievable and so when people find out about them it will be too late.

The WTC buildings were engineered to take a hit from a 707, a heavier aircraft than the one that hit the buildings. There is overwhelming evidence that those buildings were taken down with explosives, including the 3rd building, #7. You can see that one falling on the net. All were done to collect extremely high insurance into the billions from a low millions premium.

The purpose of this carefully crafted conspiracy was to have a Police State and a Perpetual War for a slave state and continual insane profits off of people's miseries.

The pilots were trained at Pensacola Navel Air Station.

Marvin Bush, head of security at the complex resigned IN ADVANCE on 9-11.

Superheated V-shaped steel cuts were found at the scene which were exactly like those from the specific explosive used to drop buildings.

The air traffic and interceptor rules were obfuscated that day by fake drills to confuse the Air Force. As a pilot I know that there should have been fighter jets on each wingtip long before the planes got to New York.

110 story buildings collasped into a rather neat, relatively low pile which could have only been done if the basement levels supports were blown first to allow enough room to hold most of the building wreckage.

Many witnesses heard the series of explosives to take down the buildings.

The fires were out before the explosions and the buildings were still standing.
Airplanes have never taken down any large building. The damage is always localized.

Kerosene burns uncompressed at about 1200-1500 degrees. Steel does not melt until around approximately 5000 degrees.

Look at the Bush family's history, and also Cheney's for the level of Evil needed here.

All of the above is from what I know. If I'd studied it more I'd have much more to say.

There is a group called "Architects and Engineers For 9-11 Truth" which has more technical information.

At the time I noticed that there was the identical banner on each TV Station's screen: "Attack On America", obviously decided in advance from a single source.
Also from the look on President's face when told about the attack, he knew it was coming. I read faces with exceptional skill, for which talent I will most certainly be put down by many here, but I know what I can do.

Lakey, it was nice knowing you; thanks for being my friend.

Well, why kill the whole friendship, we can still talk about the roads and the weather.

I see in Laura Bush a very decent being, uptone and with a clean space. Was George W. able to conceal the plan from her. Same thing for Lynn Cheney. Are there data on who received the insurance money, is there a record of the insurance money going into Bush's or Cheney's accounts. Both Bush and Cheney families already were extremely rich, why would they execute a plan like this just to get more money.

Why were there Arabs seen boarding the plans on 9/11. Why did these guys study how to fly at a flight school in Florida shortly before the attacks. Why did they all buy only one way tickets. What happened to them, are they still living. What about all the passengers on the airplanes, are they still living, how much did it cost to buy their silence and where are they being hidden. Are you suggesting that the planes actually were flown into the buildings but the planted explosives themselves brought down buildings so that the planes flying into the buildings was just window dressing.

The one argument I like is one from the people who claim that Bush is an ignorant and stupid man with a low IQ and yet they credit him with masterminding this incredibly intricate plot. As to the reaction on Bush's face when he heard the news, how is a President supposed to look after receiving news of such a huge national catastrophy? He was in a school with young children putting on a happy face and suddenly received word of the attack. There is no preset way a leader should respond to such news. You know that he doesn't want to panic as it would scare the children, he has to appear to remain calm and in control or it would scare the nation. The information has to be verified as being true before he would be expected to act. Your being an expert on reading people's facial expressions is not sufficient evidence to convict Bush as a perpetrator.

The plot would have to have been the most intricate plot ever attempted on Earth to be carried out the way it was without anybody suspecting it or being able to convict Bush and Cheney for mass murder. Thousands of key people would have had to be in on the scheme. Hundreds would have had to carry out various roles using cloak and dagger techniques. Some witnesses who knew the truth probably would have blackmailed the perpetrators. No one, expecially a dufus such as bush could have conceived and executed such a perfect plot and to what end?

Nine years later, none of what you cite as the goals for the attack ever came to pass. We are winding up our stays in Iraq and Afghanistan and will soon be out of those countries. Real efforts have been made to set up democracies there. The Bush Cheney team were disgraced by extremely low approval ratings and daily bashings by the media, Bush's party lost the 2006 election and got totally trounced in the 2008 election. G.W. Bush is going down in history as one of our worst presidents ever if not they worst. The U.S.A. did not gain control of any additional oil. Bush and Cheney were already billionaires and did not significantly increase their wealth. Bush's legacy that he really wanted to shine was totally ruined.

Bush's wife and Daughters still love him and are wining in life and are not cowed and ill as the assoicates and families of SP's are supposed to be; to the contrary they are vibrant and healthy. There are so many questions to answer if this was a conspiracy by Bush and Cheney.

You know, Blue, I thought that when I wrote that post, there might be someone on the thread who would object and disconnect from me and I thought about not posting what I said but then something turned on in my mind which said, if somebody doesn't want to be friends over this, I might as well state my position and find out now. We've been friends now for many months and this topic never came up. It has been a pleasant friendship, I am still willing to be your friend, I respect your opinion and your long list of evidence definiitely causes me to believe that just maybe Bush and Cheney are complicit. I am not 100% certain that they are not involved but most of your evidence is circumstantial. There are just so many unanswered questions which I have that I do not accept your analysis at face value.

I am willing to remain friends despite this difference in opinion. For you, I will even make an exception and debate the matter with you if you care to stay in touch. If you choose to discontinue the friendship then so be it, I will respect that decision too. One thing I know, I have no desire to be liked by everyone, if someone doesn't like me, it is cathartic for both of us to break off relations. It just seems unwise to break up a perfectly good friendship over something such as one's belief over a 911 conspiracy. My personal feeling is that it is not wise to throw away a good friendship over a matter of this nature. I realize that I am the one who instigated this breakup by bringing up 911. That being said, my preference would be to look beyond the dispute and continue the friendship. You make the final call.
Lakey

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Our pies are full of MEAT. Those vegetarian pies you guys do are strictly for the Southern California arty-fashion set.

As opposed to the Provincial Anglo-Colonial Culturally Depraved set?


Mark A. Baker

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Lamentations of an Old Foggie

Thanks, Pal. Good stuff from beginning to end…you sure know how to round off an edge.

I use to do business with some Japanese…made about 20 trips or so...got to know them pretty well and still correspond with some "freind's for life" there. They’re still a Full Service Economy…it’s part of their national strategy. The Texaco Star Man is alive and well in Japan…so is the Butcher, Baker and Candlestick Maker.

Throughout America’s Heartland the old Western Auto, owned by mom and pop, living upstairs with their kids, is gone. Now Mom and Pop drive 34 miles to the Counties Walmart and work for a wage, and the kids are raised by Kentucky Fried Children. In Japan the drive and thirst for Education and Mastery begins at home and the kids go off to school every day in their schools uniform.

I’m not saying that the Japanese have “got it all right” as their system stifles very much individuality. They look to us for discoveries that can be developed into applied technology. There is a saying in Japan that, “All winds of change blow from the West.”

In Japan, the hero is the person that sacrifices himself for the good of the Group…In the America, the hero (or at least it use to be) is the guy that goes against the system, saves the day and gets the girl.

But, the Agrarian and Artisan Model has served our society well and it saddens me to see the increasing number of Parents and Children that have no frame of reference regarding the most time-tested and proven societal foundation.

Bucky Fuller saw all this coming and wrote extensively of how we could save the baby as the bathwater was evaporating away.

Face

It's 11 PM. I just got off the phone with Denmark, where I've been running Opening Procedure 8C for the last hour (look at that wall, walk over to that wall, touch that wall, turn around). I just threw some cauliflower in the steamer for dinner, and I'm popping the lid on a yogurt.

My trusty assistant and I walked the streets of our little town from 9 to 10 while I ran PrPr 1 on someone else by phone.

Earlier I gave a real newbie a second session by phone. He has done the HAS, and yesterday I gave him his first session. He went exterior after running a chain of secondaries with an engram at the bottom. He's pretty happy.

But as Arlo Guthrie would say, that's not why I came here. i came to talk about organization knowledge.

Back in the late 60s or 1970 (at the latest) I was hitting on this beautiful chic named Nancy Kelly at SFO. She was a class IV auditor, and (more importantly) had a very hot body to go with her ever so beautiful self. I said something like "why was she working at SFO when she could be making money at a center?"

can you say "Ooops!"

I knew you could.

It was knowledge report time and visit the E/O and blah blah blah. It was a major crime for centers to steal org staff. Pardon my ability to ask an obvious question.

Orgs didn't run like centers (later called missions). Their pay was shitty. With the exceptions of CC, AO, and ASHO in the US, orgs didn't survive high on the hog. There were all these eastern European style rules straight out of Franz Kafka. Centers were run by independent minded people. Rules were not half as important as getting the job(s) done. Going to work in a center was like going to play with friends. It was fun.

When I went down to LA to go Clear, I was warned in no uncertain terms to watch out for the Sea Org Cognition. That cognition that said I should join the Sea Org. So when I had it, on OT 2, I just told myself that I was temporarily crazy, and that it would pass. It did in a couple of days.

When a friend (my friend, Susan, Lakey) waned to join the Sea Org so she could get her auditing without having to pay for it, I offered to pay for her auditing if she didn't join. She joined, but I was always the thorn of reality. Yesterday she told me how good it was for her to be able to talk to me freely over the years. So many people had sipped the Kool Aid.

There are several kinds of organizations. Whatever the organization, you can usually tell a lot about the leader by the folks on the customer "meet and greet" line. When the 10% monthly price increases hit us, I had no illusions as to who was behind that. Have you been in a US Post Office lately? How was the service? Some mailman, somewhere in the US, went postal only yesterday. How about Fed Ex?

I know a lady lawyer, who was personally hired by Steve Ballmer of Microsoft. She calls it the Evil Empire.

As much as I love Apple products, and could never create and or manufacture something like that, I don't particularly like big organizations.

Somewhere over 50 employees, organizations loose sight of many individual ethical values. Corporations don't tend to have a heart. Many small companies do.

I think Hyatt Hotels is an amazing paradigm setter. The top corporate brass have to work on the desk, on the front lines of their hotels for a week or two every couple of years. They get to see, experience, and handle what works, what walks in the door.

The Disney Company doesn't pay well. They never have. BUT Disney offers a high degree of job satisfaction. They take care of their employees and their customers. They innovate. Workers are invested. They don't feel like cogs. That's worth more than money to many.

Running huge corporations or huge money businesses respond to "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely." Think: Enron, Wall Street, government at any level.

On the other hand, think of almost any Mom and Pop business that you know. Do you like them? do you trust them? I do.

I can't wait to see the new "Wall Street" movie with Michael douglas. it looks great.

 

[lkwdblds]

Don Purcell got a hold of the copyrights

Roger thank you for that detailed explanation of what happened.

A small addition that might explain his changing attitude toward Dianetics, that I
read on the net, is that he lost control of the trademark "Dianetics" at the time you speak of, I think to Dr. Winter, and later recovered it before then using it again and the Hubbard Standard Dianetics Course came out around that time.

So typical to LRH's insanity, I believe his use of Dianetics was relative to severe disagreements he had with others.

I recall (my sites have become disorganized by computer crashes) also that the
e-meter had a similar problem, and so it was not used for a long period until he regained control of that patent or whatever it was.

The Chap who got hold of the copyrights was named Don Purcell. I think Dr. Winter was out of the picture by then. I think Purcell declared bankruptcy and just allowed the copyrights to Dianetics to revert back to LRH.
Lakey

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Deja Vu all over again

I am about to make some new enemies and mention stats! When I woke up yesterday, our views stat was about 60,050 and now it is about 60,900, That shows 850 views yesterday, That is a very high day for us, about double our recent average per day. I was told back around early November of 2009 by Carmelo, that 250 per day on ESMB is considered high.

If you read the replies you see why interest picked up. I believe that Facey's topics, which returned us once again more to what the thread says in its title, brought back some people who had not been active here lately.

There has been a large surge of quality postings and replies regarding these topics but then the other topics we often comment on are also being posted simultaneously.

Back last year, I tried to figure out what to do to attract as large an audience as possible. The threads on ESMB which were attracting lots of views had either a Universal theme such as Vinnaire's "Oh!God!! thread or they had something to do with a famous person and their story or some major event, perhaps something like the Lisa Mc Pherson incident.

With my humble background and not being well known plus an inability to think of a Universal topic to write about, I set a modest goal of reaching 10,000 views. We hit that 2 days before my birthday in early December of '09. I think that the topic that Facey brought up is a universal topic. An insider's view of LRH, who he was and what really made him tick. How was the tech developed, is there merit and workability in the tech and if so how workable is it, how far can it take a person. This is the universal topic of interest which I was trying to come up with on my own back in autumn of 2009. I sure did not cook up that topic but by contributing and just helping to keep the thread going, it sort of arrived hear on its own. Ted's topic of Sinek's Golden Circle ties in extremely nicely to Facey's topic I thought IMMORTAL might be a vehicle to get a major topic going but she took a quick look here and was not interested and moved on. However, very shortly afterwards, the major topic I was looking for showed up.

Alas, yet again I find myself being exploited for someone else’s Stat Push.





I’M JUST KIDDIN’, LAKEY!!!!
Sometimes bein’ SOURCE is a real bitch, aint it!

Congrats.

Peace Bro’

Your Pal,

Face

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Indeed, the "upper levels" are a scam in my view. They are an irresponsible, colossal error based on superficiality and hype of a good story to deliver $$$$ into his bank accounts. Indeed, it may well even have been known by Hubbard that he was practicing a scam with that stuff.

Rog

That is certainly the case with regard to how the "upper levels" are delivered in the church. Those I've done I did outside the church. I found value in doing them although not the value implied by the Co$ hype about them. Also, I wasn't subject to the insane costs, interference, or other stresses that are a part of "confidential levels" done within the church.

Mine were certainly done "non-standardly", but frankly I'm convinced that if "upper levels" are to be done at all by an individual then it is by far smarter NOT to do them the way the church has required them to be done in the past since common church practice requires knowingly violating the Auditor's Code.


Mark A. Baker

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Check, Mate

Man, this is good stuff, Rog...this is gooder than good stuff!

Face

Lakey, My Man,

Let's see if this simplifies it.

Management discussion aside on the issues of "Innovators" and "Adaptors" . . . . the Theoretical boffins love this kind of labelling there is a simplicity to it. You could even look at any industry or new tech development. Even Take Henry Ford and his caper.

Hubbard came along with a "new" development cum idea. It collided with the ideas extant among many others working in the same of similar area. The good guys among them tried to co-act with Hubbard and contribute their wisdom in the vein that all men/women, scientists and folks of good will do. But Hubbard's thing was that he had to dominate and "make all men his slaves."

So these early guys who came on his lines ended up getting pissed (the innovators who were already there) and going off to do their own thing. What we mainly have, is Hubbard's notes on the history of those times, and he lied about those guys and their relationship. This at various times in the '50's.

When was the last ACC? Melbourne was Aug 1959, and I think there was one other after it. The SHSBC got underway some time late 1960 or the beginning of '61?

By the late 1950's "adaptors" were beginning to accumulate more and more (some of course connecting earlier). They hadn't developed their own stuff, so were looking to help and even add their input to Hubbard's scene with their "adaptions" and applications.

Realize that Hubbard's big lie (or at least one of them) was the proposition that he was some sort of special person that has "risen above the bank." This tended to convince the adaptors that Hubbard had special wisdom . . . . when in fact he was actually producing so much "new discovery" that in fact was half-baked research, incomplete and oft erroneous that our problem became keeping up with this stream of shit and trying to debug and clean of the confusion he was delivering.

Things got insane and nuts, as I have said, when he denied to us all that the own goals GPMs we had been processing were not our own, but implants. This is the end of April 1963. He later recanted, half-heartedly appologized and acknowledged that in fact own goals GPMs do exist (in Feb. 1964). Too late the damage was done, and he never revisited that correct line of research.

You've only got to read Mystic's comments on Alan's "Opening Pandora's Box" thread to see how stupid, damaging and irresponsible that stunt by Hubbard was.

It was here that things began to get more and more dicey, and folks began to start dropping off the lines. I remember looking, in 1970, at how many of the 1st 100-200 "true" Clears had dropped off the lines.

Realize the carrot of the next secret OT level that we need to do was always dangling out there ahead to do, and the proposition was that that is the answer to our case!!!

So, many "adaptors" stayed on lines with many still contributing and making useful input to Hubbard . . . . but one must realize the "adaptors" tended to think of themselves as "junior" to or as followers of Hubbard . . . hence the loyally staying on lines for a longer duration than the earlier "innovators."

By 1960, the "innovator" fraternity that would have come on lines had come and gone. The tech had become a little too contentious for that caliber of individual by the late '50s . . . Dianetics actually had great rationale to it in the climate of the times it was introduced into.

One must realize that the guys who became the remembered stellar names of the '50's weren't in the game for themselves. These cats were all into helping their fellow man and into the advancement of civilization And many had already done so with their own discoveries and work.

Though it is also true that there were "adaptors" on the lines right from the beginning and some remained on the lines till the utter insanities of 1982-3.

Here is a change-point in Dn/Scn that few remember . . . . this will give you an idea of how superficial and deceitful Hubbard was; and also as to why he lost support in various ways over the years.

And by the way, this is the point and issue that first made me seriously question his integrity, when I read his accusations against we auditors for what he had actually done.

April 28, 1953: Hubbard relegates the techniques of DMSMH to being used only for assists and to have limited application, this in favor of the processes of Scientology as delineated in the books Scientology 8-8008 and Creation of Human Ability. (See pp 128, Scn 8-8008 3rd edition) On pp 11 & 12 Hubbard denigrates Dianetic processing compared to Scientology, and states:

"Today, when you see Dianetics being advertised and used, you are looking at the formal practice of psychiatry and medicine, and indeed some of those organizations which are still carrying forward under the name of Dianetics or other similar terms are official members, for the most part, of the same organizations that espouse electric shock and pre-frontal lobotomy. . . . Dianetics, the subject was dropped as a psycho-therapy by my organizations."​

Then on September 28, 1968, in an HCOB titled "DIANETICS" Hubbard blames all auditors for his action above with this statement as the opening paragraph:

"The most incredible part of the auditing period preceding Sept 1968 was that auditors, calling themselves such, actually could forget, mislay and abandon secondary and engram running as a skill."​

It is to be noted that there is revisions and omissions of this stupidity in later recent editions of 8-8008.

If you want a fuller showing of that 3rd edition (and all through the 1950's versions) of 8-8008 here it is:

1956 3rd Edition, missing bits in later edition bolded




2007 edition, with material above (from 1950's editions) in bold deleted.




Rog

 

[Leon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPW0pkEY_3E

Well now. This is interesting. Thankyou for the viddy BTW.

Some years ago someone else sent me this song on a DVD - someone who was very good to me then. Helped me a lot. Haven't heard from him in years.

Are you by any chance that same person? I mean - to me this is a very unusual song, I'd never hear of it before, and here it is again.

So if you are then I hope you are well and I thank you once again. A real pleasure doing business with you.

 

[Blue Spirit]

Yes

The Chap who got hold of the copyrights was named Don Purcell. I think Dr. Winter was out of the picture by then. I think Purcell declared bankruptcy and just allowed the copyrights to Dianetics to revert back to LRH.
Lakey

Yes, you are right, I've read too much on this subject of Scientology History and sometimes I go a little spinny.


Regarding out friendship, my statement was made tongue-in-cheek and I should have used this following those words. I think our friendship should continue.

You seem to have the Orange County Republican view of things. I think both major parties sold out a long time ago to the soulless big corporations.
I'm waiting for a viable 3rd party, which judging by the now old reaction to
that short Texan running for President, the public is more than ready.
I doubt that the candidate would live long though, since they got away with killing JFK and RFK and that gave them the confidence to go after Reagan too to try to get Bush in directly.

Back briefly to 9-11 (the subject bores me as it is too similar to the JFK thing)
The insurance money went to the building owner, a friend of Bush/Cheney.

It was Cheney's insane game, not Bush's directly.

The security chief, was a Bush, which allowed the 3 buildings to be closed long enough to rig the explosives, exactly like a building taken down for a new one to go up in its place, certainly by the same companies expert in that area.

The planes were just as much a Red Herring as Lee Oswald was, therefore being a Pilot familiar with the procedures to handle errant planes that I was warned about when I got my license, as I used to fly near the shooting practice range of the Navy base in the Chesapeake Bay when flying out to get a great Sunday dinner on the island there, I knew those planes would have had fighters on their wingtips if the procedure had not been purposely
subverted by Cheney at that exact time. I also read that the radar had been reprogramed to avoid detection of specific planes, although I don't know.

Common sense engineering ability, which I have a lot of, tells one that airplanes have never taken down a large building. The designers always take that into consideration.
Also the buildings fell down rapidly and in perfect symmetry from asymmetrical hits. Not possible.

Go read the "Architects and Engineers For 9-11 Truth, if you want expert opinion.
There is a video of Building #7 dropping from explosives at the top right of the opening page. There was nothing wrong with that building, but it was destroyed to collect the insurance. At least they removed the people first.
http://cms.ae911truth.org/.

As far as the wives you bring up, it has been my experience that SP's always marry sycophantic oblivious wives. Read the "Robotism" HCOB by LRH.

One would wonder how all of this could be kept quiet. Well they kill people still for political reasons and the press is so controlled today that nothing would get out, except on the net. There, those things probably exist.
Also people are afraid for their jobs. And of course you have group think always as a factor, of course.
If you recall back to the JFK assasination, many were afraid to speak up. Some did, but only when they were dying years later. The film of the shooting was doctored so that it wouldn't be obvious he was shot from the front taking out the entire rear of his skull as an exit bullet wound. The autopsy covered up all of this with documents destroyed or held up to
some future date above 2020 or something.
Poor Oswald was shot to cover up the truth, and every Nov. the TV dutifully tells you again that Oswald did it with a bullet
which came from the rear and reversed directions twice to wound two people, etc.

BTW, no aircraft ever hit the Pentagon. Another rigged explosion there.

The day I figured out that JFK was shot by a government conspiracy, was the day I lost my innocense.
Haven't felt safe since.

 

[Blue Spirit]

No Doubts

That is certainly the case with regard to how the "upper levels" are delivered in the church. Those I've done I did outside the church. I found value in doing them although not the value implied by the Co$ hype about them. Also, I wasn't subject to the insane costs, interference, or other stresses that are a part of "confidential levels" done within the church.

Mine were certainly done "non-standardly", but frankly I'm convinced that if "upper levels" are to be done at all by an individual then it is by far smarter NOT to do them the way the church has required them to be done in the past since common church practice requires knowingly violating the Auditor's Code.

Mark A. Baker

I have no doubts about any of the above, but was just curious how the Auditor's Code is violated ?

 

[thetanic]

I have no doubts about any of the above, but was just curious how the Auditor's Code is violated ?

By revealing session data to staff that really shouldn't have that information, gossiping between staff, etc. Not to mention use of it should you ever leave.

 

[RogerB]

Yep,

It's true about the Doc Winters and Purcell stuff. LRH lost control of the "Diantetics" name/word.

But look at the insanity/evil of the man, which is highlighted by this event.

Not only did he war against his colleagues, he sought to deny and destroy a workable piece of tech because it was in the hands of others!

It was not until he could control the subject/name again that he told (some of the) the truth about it, and again began to benefit his follows with it!

I mean, look at the evil of that . . . he actually sought to put down a good piece of tech and the good souls making it available to others!

He'd have been smarter to have let the others get on with their thing such that their actions would only have made him more famous as the developer of the tech, which subject he could have honestly said he had further advanced . . . . . but NO . . . the idiot had to start with the "it's very limited and actually only makes nothing of you and the guys now doing it are lobotomisers" shit!!

As I put the pieces together now, I simply see how warped and evil Hubbard was!

Sad, but true.

RogerB

 

[RogerB]

Yes, Mark,

What I write does not invalidate any of the gains any of us had by doing the Scn Advanced levels. By the same token, I am not going to get into the strife, upset and damage that has also occurred to some as a result of going onto those levels and into the materials provided in the way it was done.

I am now fortunate to have gotten and used more accurate, truthful and workable tech for the case material addressed by Hubbard's upper levels, and it is only in that context do I now see how superficial and dishonest he was in what he did and provided.

Without that later good fortune I would have been like a starving man feeling he'd been saved by finding some slop and scraps to eat, not know that around the next corner was a really proper and decent meal to be had.

Rog

 

[RogerB]

Man, this is good stuff, Rog...this is gooder than good stuff!

Face

Thanks, Face

With any luck, we might just blow a Zorch or two by getting all this brilliance out into people's hands.

Rog

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Yes, Mark,

What I write does not invalidate any of the gains any of us had by doing the Scn Advanced levels. By the same token, I am not going to get into the strife, upset and damage that has also occurred to some as a result of going onto those levels and into the materials provided in the way it was done.

I am now fortunate to have gotten and used more accurate, truthful and workable tech for the case material addressed by Hubbard's upper levels, and it is only in that context do I now see how superficial and dishonest he was in what he did and provided.

Without that later good fortune I would have been like a starving man feeling he'd been saved by finding some slop and scraps to eat, not know that around the next corner was a really proper and decent meal to be had.

Rog

As I suspect you well understand Rog, you've been instrumental in helping me sort through some of this. Especially important to me is how you're comments have illustrated just exactly how fortunate I was NOT to attempt "upper levels" under church guidance. I may not have had the full benefits of some of the latest tech developments of which you are aware, but I did manage to bypass much of the worst of evaluative case auditing as it is practiced by the Co$.

Thanks for your insights & friendship. Both are deeply appreciated.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Mark A. Baker]

I have no doubts about any of the above, but was just curious how the Auditor's Code is violated ?

Two items as examples:

A. Much of the Co$'s "standard approach" to auditing "upper levels" is innately evaluative & invalidative of the individual being audited. This can be "cleaned up" as you go on, but the bias is inherently built in.

B. Mandatory recurrent sec checks are a gross abuse of the rights of a pc.


Mark A. Baker

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Well, why kill the whole friendship, we can still talk about the roads and the weather.

I see in Laura Bush a very decent being, uptone and with a clean space. Was George W. able to conceal the plan from her. Same thing for Lynn Cheney. Are there data on who received the insurance money, is there a record of the insurance money going into Bush's or Cheney's accounts. Both Bush and Cheney families already were extremely rich, why would they execute a plan like this just to get more money.

Why were there Arabs seen boarding the plans on 9/11. Why did these guys study how to fly at a flight school in Florida shortly before the attacks. Why did they all buy only one way tickets. What happened to them, are they still living. What about all the passengers on the airplanes, are they still living, how much did it cost to buy their silence and where are they being hidden. Are you suggesting that the planes actually were flown into the buildings but the planted explosives themselves brought down buildings so that the planes flying into the buildings was just window dressing.

The one argument I like is one from the people who claim that Bush is an ignorant and stupid man with a low IQ and yet they credit him with masterminding this incredibly intricate plot. As to the reaction on Bush's face when he heard the news, how is a President supposed to look after receiving news of such a huge national catastrophy? He was in a school with young children putting on a happy face and suddenly received word of the attack. There is no preset way a leader should respond to such news. You know that he doesn't want to panic as it would scare the children, he has to appear to remain calm and in control or it would scare the nation. The information has to be verified as being true before he would be expected to act. Your being an expert on reading people's facial expressions is not sufficient evidence to convict Bush as a perpetrator.

The plot would have to have been the most intricate plot ever attempted on Earth to be carried out the way it was without anybody suspecting it or being able to convict Bush and Cheney for mass murder. Thousands of key people would have had to be in on the scheme. Hundreds would have had to carry out various roles using cloak and dagger techniques. Some witnesses who knew the truth probably would have blackmailed the perpetrators. No one, expecially a dufus such as bush could have conceived and executed such a perfect plot and to what end?

Nine years later, none of what you cite as the goals for the attack ever came to pass. We are winding up our stays in Iraq and Afghanistan and will soon be out of those countries. Real efforts have been made to set up democracies there. The Bush Cheney team were disgraced by extremely low approval ratings and daily bashings by the media, Bush's party lost the 2006 election and got totally trounced in the 2008 election. G.W. Bush is going down in history as one of our worst presidents ever if not they worst. The U.S.A. did not gain control of any additional oil. Bush and Cheney were already billionaires and did not significantly increase their wealth. Bush's legacy that he really wanted to shine was totally ruined.

Bush's wife and Daughters still love him and are wining in life and are not cowed and ill as the assoicates and families of SP's are supposed to be; to the contrary they are vibrant and healthy. There are so many questions to answer if this was a conspiracy by Bush and Cheney.

You know, Blue, I thought that when I wrote that post, there might be someone on the thread who would object and disconnect from me and I thought about not posting what I said but then something turned on in my mind which said, if somebody doesn't want to be friends over this, I might as well state my position and find out now. We've been friends now for many months and this topic never came up. It has been a pleasant friendship, I am still willing to be your friend, I respect your opinion and your long list of evidence definiitely causes me to believe that just maybe Bush and Cheney are complicit. I am not 100% certain that they are not involved but most of your evidence is circumstantial. There are just so many unanswered questions which I have that I do not accept your analysis at face value.

I am willing to remain friends despite this difference in opinion. For you, I will even make an exception and debate the matter with you if you care to stay in touch. If you choose to discontinue the friendship then so be it, I will respect that decision too. One thing I know, I have no desire to be liked by everyone, if someone doesn't like me, it is cathartic for both of us to break off relations. It just seems unwise to break up a perfectly good friendship over something such as one's belief over a 911 conspiracy. My personal feeling is that it is not wise to throw away a good friendship over a matter of this nature. I realize that I am the one who instigated this breakup by bringing up 911. That being said, my preference would be to look beyond the dispute and continue the friendship. You make the final call.
Lakey

Now I'm not saying a third party has to be present in every dispute, but why don't you guys solve your differences like men?

Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr knew how to solve a disagreement.

Boy, you two are just pantywaist dilettantes.