The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[lkwdblds]

Regarding DM's good side

What I have noticed with Manipulators is they usually have Good and Bad sides

to play cards from so as to use the tool that at any one time will get the

Controlling result they crave and need. They will bounce you between those

Good and Bad sides to keep you confused and stick your attention.

Very subtle and very Suppressive.

The Mini-LRH I've dealt with recently who assumed LRH's valences is a prime
example.
Also look at the Friendsoflrh.org website for a similar dichotomy which says
LRH was all Good and Miscavige was all bad (the latter, probably true).
You see how you are manipulated into having a certain opinion.

Just more insanity from Scientology, in my opinion.

On DM's being all bad. Its just my opinion having never been up close to DM but just seeing him speak at events in the 80's and 90's but he does not seem to have a good side to him. Being all bad seems to be higher up the scales than covertly being your friend. With DM, you know you are going to be treated unscrupulously so there are no surprises.

I and most everyone I know would much rather be in an LRH run group than a DM run group. If LRH were 1.1 at covert hostility, this would not be the case. He seemed to be capable of having both a good side and an evil side, definitely a split personality. When in his good valences, it seems he was a delight to be around, a lot of fun and was capable of helping people. When he was in his bad valences, hell hath no fury like LRH scorned. I was active for just over 3 decades and for me, things were definitely more fun and exciting when LRH was at the helm. With the advent of DM, the maxim that "seriousness equals mass" was dropped as was, "if it's not fun it's not Scientology" and the spirit of play, still quite high in the early 70's was completely gone.

LRH, probably pushed by MSH, was responsible for allowing a light hearted spirit of play attitude to exist in the Orgs. Yvonne sure put that into her management style and the Missions, well I never attended classes at one, but from all the stories told on ESMB and other sites, they were really full of fun and the spirit of play. From the beginning, DM seemed to frown on having fun and considered being kind to people as being off purpose and just a case manifestation.

I think that if Scientology had been run the way the most successful Missions were run, such as COSMOD and the Riverside Mission and several others, and if the prices were lowered to comply with early policies which LRH wrote on pricing, and if co auditing was practiced in earnest where a person and their twin audited each other up the Bridge at very little cost plus experiencing a lot of training, then I believe that Scientology would truly number in the millions today and be much more main stream. Those Mission Holders of the 70's really knew what they were doing in getting a controversial subject to become more mainstream and grow quickly in numbers. Killing off that network and taking over the money was a watershed moment in the Scientology movement and is ultimately leading to its demise.
Lakey

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Baby Face

Nobody, but nobody does "Baby Face" like Al Jolson.

Coincidentally I was playing Jolson doing "Baby Face" while driving today.

In addition Jolson built and lived at Kirstie Alley's house in Encino before she and Parker bought it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxMaYqLwTvg

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

On DM's being all bad. Its just my opinion having never been up close to DM but just seeing him speak at events in the 80's and 90's but he does not seem to have a good side to him. Being all bad seems to be higher up the scales than covertly being your friend. With DM, you know you are going to be treated unscrupulously so there are no surprises.

I and most everyone I know would much rather be in an LRH run group than a DM run group. If LRH were 1.1 at covert hostility, this would not be the case. He seemed to be capable of having both a good side and an evil side, definitely a split personality. When in his good valences, it seems he was a delight to be around, a lot of fun and was capable of helping people. When he was in his bad valences, hell hath no fury like LRH scorned. I was active for just over 3 decades and for me, things were definitely more fun and exciting when LRH was at the helm. With the advent of DM, the maxim that "seriousness equals mass" was dropped as was, "if it's not fun it's not Scientology" and the spirit of play, still quite high in the early 70's was completely gone.

LRH, probably pushed by MSH, was responsible for allowing a light hearted spirit of play attitude to exist in the Orgs. Yvonne sure put that into her management style and the Missions, well I never attended classes at one, but from all the stories told on ESMB and other sites, they were really full of fun and the spirit of play. From the beginning, DM seemed to frown on having fun and considered being kind to people as being off purpose and just a case manifestations.

I think that if Scientology had been run the way the most successful Missions were run, such as COSMOD and the Riverside Mission and several others, and if the prices were lowered to comply with early policies which LRH wrote on pricing, and if co auditing was practiced in earnest where a person and their twin audited each other up the Bridge at very little cost plus experiencing a lot of training, then I believe that Scientology would truly number in the millions today and be much more main stream. Those Mission Holders of the 70's really knew what they were doing in getting a controversial subject to become more mainstream and grow quickly in numbers. Killing off that network and taking over the money was a watershed moment in the Scientology and is ultimately leading to its demise.
Lakey

DM is down around "punishing bodies"

therefore

LRH was higher toned for the longer period.

 

[lkwdblds]

Spiritual team on the move?

Nobody, but nobody does "Baby Face" like Al Jolson.

Coincidentally I was playing Jolson doing "Baby Face" while driving today.

In addition Jolson built and lived at Kirstie Alley's house in Encino before she and Parker bought it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxMaYqLwTvg

Playing "Baby Face" while driving. If I had done that, I would surmise that my spiritual team knew in advance that the song would be under discussion on ESMB tonight just gave me an advanced signal. What's your take on it, just coincidence or something deeper?

Also, in your next post I completely agree with you on the tone level of DM and that LRH was at a higher tone than DM for a longer period of time and hence more people who served under both would prefer serving under LRH.
Lakey

 

[Blue Spirit]

And Lower

DM is down around "punishing bodies"

therefore

LRH was higher toned for the longer period.

LRH was at "Hiding" for the last 20 years, not moment-to-moment, but as a
chronic level and also "punishing bodies" is literally not on the scale but would
best be translated as "Sacrifice" just above "Hiding".
LRH was up and down the Tone Scale related to his being In Valence or
Out-of-Valence, which as his case descended between 1963 and 1986, he was more in the lower chronic tones: additional to above, Blame, Controlling Bodies, and Owning Bodies.

I do wonder how many of his high toned lectures may have been powered by a "Manic" state caused by drugs, which LRH, Jr. said he often used to bring him "up" for a lecture.

The fact that DM's Tones are so set and fixed is a sure sign of insanity.
To get relief he needed R2-45 a very long time ago.

 

[lkwdblds]

You make some good points but one thing I question.

LRH was at "Hiding" for the last 20 years, not moment-to-moment, but as a
chronic level and also "punishing bodies" is literally not on the scale but would
best be translated as "Sacrifice" just above "Hiding".
LRH was up and down the Tone Scale related to his being In Valence or
Out-of-Valence, which as his case descended between 1963 and 1986, he was more in the lower chronic tones: additional to above, Blame, Controlling Bodies, and Owning Bodies.

I do wonder how many of his high toned lectures may have been powered by a "Manic" state caused by drugs, which LRH, Jr. said he often used to bring him "up" for a lecture.

The fact that DM's Tones are so set and fixed is a sure sign of insanity.
To get relief he needed R2-45 a very long time ago.

You make some good points Blue. My only conflict with what you say is that I believe in the maxim that if you want a person to duplicate your communication, you communicate to him at a tone 1/2 point to 1 full point higher. That datum has virtually always worked for me and I follow it as an empirical truth. Whatever success I have had with my Lakey "shtick" has been done with a tone level of about 3.5, strong interest, plus introducing a little shock value by boldly stating truths even in situations when it might not be wise to tell the total truth. BTW, I don't advise that, it can lead to making unnecessary enemies.

LRH knew his tone scale tech and he got in a lot of "Innovators" and "Early Adapters" by boldly speaking politically incorrect truths and an appropriate tone level to reach the people he did. I know now thanks to Ted. Face, and Rog that after about 1963, Innovators and Early Adapters started to leave Scn, thereby signaling a tone drop in LRH's public communications and writings. Still in the early 60's through the early 70's his tone level was certainly far above those deep sub death levels which you are mentioning - if it wasn't he would have appealed mainly to the "walking dead" after 1963 and that is just not the case. Some very fine people came in during the '63 to '73 period.

I haven't done or seen any surveys but the people whom I encountered in the Orgs were a couple of cuts higher on the tone scale than those I had run into in non Scio life. I had spent time amongst Jewish people, Community College people, University People including UCLA, aerospace people and IBM people so I had a good smattering of exposure to what kinds of people populated Western Society. There are plenty of very decent people in all those groups but I feel the tone level of the Scientologists was the highest. Next to Scientologists, the only other groups which appeared to me to be really high toned were those in the Cub Scout and Boy Scout movement and those who were into music and art, either classical music such as singers and orchestra members or really good popular bands and musical groups. A couple of other groups deserve Honorable Mention, the Mormons and people from Texas. The Mormons are a cut above average on every count in my opinion and my one year living in Houston showed me that the Texans were much more genuine and into being themselves than the people in California. Of course that is on average, there are many exceptions to the rule.

I just think that Hubbard had to hit us at higher than strong interest to bring us in because most of us that came in in the late 60's and early 70's were at strong interest as our social tone. Our tone level as a spiritual being, without a body, I don't even want to go there. As to whether or not Hubbard juiced up his tone level with drugs or alcohol prior to giving a lecture or writing an article, I don't know and really have no informed opinion on that.
Lakey

 

[Blue Spirit]

Too Tired

Lakey, as usual you are quite articulate.

My post was done in a hurry and tired. You are right when you say LRH had
to have a higher tone to do his work, and that continued through about 1973
with the "L" Rundowns, and most Policy done. He did work on higher OT levels
thereafter and neglected others mostly, so his interactive tones dropped from
maybe 1974 or so.
(More on the higher OT levels soon, as I find out more.)

He was at Flag in 1975-76 when I was there, and he scampered away when
found out ("Hiding").
In December 1975 a survey of Out 2-D was issued and the results brought
out-gradient "Heads-On-A-Pike" punishments which had LRH earmarks all over it, of this I am sure now.

Thanks for including 1973 in your statement of good people coming in.
I just made the cut.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Playing "Baby Face" while driving. If I had done that, I would surmise that my spiritual team knew in advance that the song would be under discussion on ESMB tonight just gave me an advanced signal. What's your take on it, just coincidence or something deeper?

Also, in your next post I completely agree with you on the tone level of DM and that LRH was at a higher tone than DM for a longer period of time and hence more people who served under both would prefer serving under LRH.
Lakey

I tend to think that ideas, thoughts, coming manifestations, and more are all "in the ether." The more attuned and in present time one is, the easier one pulls these things from the ether.

I like to think that when I'm auditing someone, phrases, words, etc come forth from the PC, that I , in turn, pick up and ask about -- leading to a quicker resolution than by asking only stock questions.

Further, if I'm doing something that I don't want to be caught doing, sure as shooting, the physical universe will align in such a way that I get caught.

When I was supposedly going to college in 1968, but didn't really want to - and didn't, I ran into my father at an international Harvester parts counter when I was supposed to be in class. OOPS!

On the other hand, I've noticed that if I want to meet someone, I don't have to walk up cold and introduce myself. Circumstances will arise where we meet on equal footing.

The universe tends to align in coincidental occurrences.

See Kurt Vonnegut's use of a Chrono-Synclastic Infundibulum in Slaughterouse Five and Sirens of Titan. A Chrono-Synclastic Infundibulum is defined as a phenomenon in the universe where matter scatters through space and time, resulting in their simultaneous existence in multiple places and times. Consequently multiple notions often contradicting each other can exist and consume the same space.

 

[Ted]

Not quite Rich Little doing Nixon, but...

Nobody, but nobody does "Baby Face" like Al Jolson.

Coincidentally I was playing Jolson doing "Baby Face" while driving today.

So you do impressions, too? Can you do Sinatra? How about Streisand? :wink2:

 

[Lavalyte]

Welcome!

I must know you as I was there at that time, especially if you were a management chief. I worked in AVU along with Suzette and a number of other people.

I don't know that I particularly agree with your description of the people you met when you first came on board, but I do know that a lot of wild stuff did occur before and after that period. Though there were some really good times with some of the people on the ship. I hope your experience there was not all bad, as was mine. We were not all drones and were not all bad, there were many fine people there who did their darndest to make things happen for the better.

Anyway, welcome!

Ozzie

Of course, the point to take home is that scientology on the Apollo, the absolute pinnacle of The Tech, with The Commodore himself there, was run about as well as an primary school theatrical production.

 

[Enthetan]

What I have noticed with Manipulators is they usually have Good and Bad sides

to play cards from so as to use the tool that at any one time will get the

Controlling result they crave and need. They will bounce you between those

Good and Bad sides to keep you confused and stick your attention.

Very subtle and very Suppressive.

It's a technique that spousal abusers use.

Be very loving much of the time, but the spouse never knows what is going to trigger the abuser's rage, and so stays in a state of "walking on eggshells" to avoid doing anything to trigger the bad side.

 

[lkwdblds]

Spot on post Blue!

Lakey, as usual you are quite articulate.

My post was done in a hurry and tired. You are right when you say LRH had
to have a higher tone to do his work, and that continued through about 1973
with the "L" Rundowns, and most Policy done. He did work on higher OT levels
thereafter and neglected others mostly, so his interactive tones dropped from
maybe 1974 or so.
(More on the higher OT levels soon, as I find out more.)

He was at Flag in 1975-76 when I was there, and he scampered away when
found out ("Hiding").
In December 1975 a survey of Out 2-D was issued and the results brought
out-gradient "Heads-On-A-Pike" punishments which had LRH earmarks all over it, of this I am sure now.

Thanks for including 1973 in your statement of good people coming in.
I just made the cut.

Spot on post Blue In the stage when he was a recluse he was definitely in hiding, literally, he was hiding from process servers who would serve him with a notice to appear in court. For a 70 year old man to go into hiding and allow his devoted and loyal wife of 30 years to take a prison rap for him, well, I think the best way to lead is by example. If this is the outcome one should follow at end of the Bridge, if this is what Int Management is calling one's "Eternity" and something one should fear losing, then heaven help all those on Scientology's upper levels!

We have two truthful alternatives which would explain this, either the "Bridge" does not lead to total freedom or it does so but LRH never fully traveled it. Either outcome bodes poorly for C of S. Int Management offers a third alternative, a typical Scientology Shore Story: we all know it, yawn, "LRH intentionally dropped his perfectly healthy body to go off and do advance research without a body." accompanied by the story that, "The Guardians Office was fully responsible for Operation Snow White and LRH knew nothing about it."

If someone actually believes the shore story, they have no chance for partilal freedom of some kind let alone total freedom. They are totally sipping the Kool-Aid.
Lakey

 

[Enthetan]

I and most everyone I know would much rather be in an LRH run group than a DM run group. If LRH were 1.1 at covert hostility, this would not be the case. He seemed to be capable of having both a good side and an evil side, definitely a split personality. When in his good valences, it seems he was a delight to be around, a lot of fun and was capable of helping people. When he was in his bad valences, hell hath no fury like LRH scorned. I was active for just over 3 decades and for me, things were definitely more fun and exciting when LRH was at the helm. With the advent of DM, the maxim that "seriousness equals mass" was dropped as was, "if it's not fun it's not Scientology" and the spirit of play, still quite high in the early 70's was completely gone.

LRH, probably pushed by MSH, was responsible for allowing a light hearted spirit of play attitude to exist in the Orgs. Yvonne sure put that into her management style and the Missions, well I never attended classes at one, but from all the stories told on ESMB and other sites, they were really full of fun and the spirit of play. From the beginning, DM seemed to frown on having fun and considered being kind to people as being off purpose and just a case manifestation.

I think that Mary Sue had a lot to do with keeping things from getting too crazy in the 60's and 70's. The bad craziness seems to have begun in earnest when LRH was isolated away from Mary Sue. And DM has nobody at all putting the brakes on his craziness.

I know with me, when one of the kids has done something to piss me off, it's my wife who keeps a lid on my "Attila the Hun" valence.

I think that if Scientology had been run the way the most successful Missions were run, such as COSMOD and the Riverside Mission and several others, and if the prices were lowered to comply with early policies which LRH wrote on pricing, and if co auditing was practiced in earnest where a person and their twin audited each other up the Bridge at very little cost plus experiencing a lot of training, then I believe that Scientology would truly number in the millions today and be much more main stream. Those Mission Holders of the 70's really knew what they were doing in getting a controversial subject to become more mainstream and grow quickly in numbers. Killing off that network and taking over the money was a watershed moment in the Scientology movement and is ultimately leading to its demise.
Lakey

DM chose to trade profitability for control. The Mission Holders were opinion leaders in their own rights, and so were dangerous to DM, as he decided after the Dec 81 Mission Holders meeting:

A much larger Mission Holders Conference was held at Flag in December 1981. Bill Franks arrived late with a CMO escort. Up to this point, no Policy Letter had been issued concerning the seniority of WDC to Franks, and HCOPL 11 Dec 80RA "The ED Int" states that the ED Int is the senior ecclesiastical post in the Church. Consequently, Mission Holder Brown McKee assigned a condition of Confusion to CMO Int for their assumption of supremacy over Franks. The condition was upheld by many of those at the meeting (Mission Holders, SO and GO crew).

CMO Int, perhaps correctly, viewed this as a mutiny. On December 23rd, they issued the Policy Letter "International Watchdog Committee" which was signed International Watchdog Committee. This states "The International Watchdog Committee is the most senior body for management in the Church of Scientology International." On December 27th, Bill Franks was removed from post as ED Int by John Nelson. He was replaced with Kerry Gleeson.

 

[lkwdblds]

Nice observation in your last line!

Of course, the point to take home is that scientology on the Apollo, the absolute pinnacle of The Tech, with The Commodore himself there, was run about as well as an primary school theatrical production.

Welcome, Lavalyte. Your screen name would make a great trade name for a new bar type shower soap or a new laundry detergent, low on toxic elements.What about a weak run drink mixed with passion fruit and served at a Hawaiian or Polynesian bar?

Seriously, I love your simile about the primary school theatrical production - you may be being a little too hard on the kids. Most such productions are run somewhat better than the Apollo was.

For decades now, Flag in Clearwater has billed itself the Friendliest place in the World. That is the ultimate insult to one's intelligence. At the current Flag, you walk around on eggshells, trying to dodge the next "reg" cycle or the next sec check. You have already been forced to shell out $20,000 for a battery of Sec Checking even though you have been doing just fine and flying through your levels and that $20K has just put you in serious debt and you are trying to mitigate the damages and hold it at $20K put the people from the Super Power Building Fund, WISE, ABLE, Way to Happiness, OSA, etc ad nauseum have other ideas about how you can spend even more. This they call "The Friendliest place in the World." Go FIgure:confused2:

Seriously Lavalyte, welcome to this thread and we hope you post here on a regular basis. Oh yes, when Ozzie wrote that message to me, I responded and asked him to read a little further. There were some really great people I ran into on the ship and I acknowledge some of them later on in my story.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

I think that Mary Sue had a lot to do with keeping things from getting too crazy in the 60's and 70's. The bad craziness seems to have begun in earnest when LRH was isolated away from Mary Sue. And DM has nobody at all putting the brakes on his craziness.

I know with me, when one of the kids has done something to piss me off, it's my wife who keeps a lid on my "Attila the Hun" valence.



DM chose to trade profitability for control. The Mission Holders were opinion leaders in their own rights, and so were dangerous to DM, as he decided after the Dec 81 Mission Holders meeting:

Thanks Entheta, I picked up some new data there on how Franks was eliminated. Also Kerry Gleason, now there is a name from the past! He was rank and file at ASHO, even doing some regging I believe, and then rose to a high post there. He was a likeable guy, quite animated and always in motion. He did not mix well with DM and Int Management. Do you have any detail or story connected with how long he held that post and how he came to be dismissed? DM was able to make a good replica of LRH's signature and then with his trusty Notary stamp, he could notarize the signature as actually being LRH's. No one had any recourse against this tactic and as soon as it was used on them, they were history.

At the time of the Mission Holder's conference, LRH was still on the line and had at least some of his wits about him. Did he know of Franks being thrown out and approve of it. After all he had appointed Franks and made his office the Senior authority in the C of S. Wouldn't he have objected to Franks being canned? Do you know or perhaps Veda will appear and shed light on this puzzling issue of how Franks was so easily unmocke

Also, your earlier post about an abusive husband being unpredictable and led a wife to walk around on eggshells, always trying not to provoke the next outburst. I thought that was a great simile to LRH's management style.
Lakey

 

[Veda]

I think that Mary Sue had a lot to do with keeping things from getting too crazy in the 60's and 70's. The bad craziness seems to have begun in earnest when LRH was isolated away from Mary Sue. And DM has nobody at all putting the brakes on his craziness.

Paulette Cooper might disagree with you. Mary Sue relayed her husband's orders to destroy her via the 'Flagship's' telex machine. (To avoid confusion on this, the main Op to destroy Cooper - which almost succeeded the first time - was re-started four years later [April 1976], and re-named, as Op Freak Out, during Hubbard's time residing in Washington, DC., after he had secretly left Florida.)

DM chose to trade profitability for control. The Mission Holders were opinion leaders in their own rights, and so were dangerous to DM, as he decided after the Dec 81 Mission Holders meeting:

The above Robert Dam link quotes Jon Atack from 1984, when Atack was on the UK 'OT Committee'. (!!!) Additional information became available after that, and Atack changed his views and conclusions somewhat. If one cares about this period, it might not be a bad idea to consult the views of former major Mission Holders, such as Corydon and Samuels, from 1986 or later, once the cult programming began to wear off and the pieces of the puzzle started to fall into place.

Yes, Hubbard went "off lines" for about a year, having become fearful of (very real, it wasn't due to "false reports") pending civil and legal consequences of his actions. Hubbard later came back on lines and ordered the looting of the Missions.

As for "If it isn't fun, it isn't Scientology," and the idea that, after 'KSW' and the establishing of the Sea Org, Scientology was "fun"... well... For what it's worth, here's a thread that touches on that... starting at post #8:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=15906&highlight=red,+shore

Over and out.

 

[Enthetan]

Thanks Entheta, I picked up some new data there on how Franks was eliminated. Also Kerry Gleason, now there is a name from the past! He was rank and file at ASHO, even doing some regging I believe, and then rose to a high post there. He was a likeable guy, quite animated and always in motion. He did not mix well with DM and Int Management. Do you have any detail or story connected with how long he held that post and how he came to be dismissed? DM was able to make a good replica of LRH's signature and then with his trusty Notary stamp, he could notarize the signature as actually being LRH's. No one had any recourse against this tactic and as soon as it was used on them, they were history.

I have no personal details about when Kerry was ED Int. I knew him when he was CO FB, and he seemed OK as COFB. Very energetic, very animated, could be a flaming asshole at times. After ED Int Kerry moved on to being a management consultant. He's got a website, http://www.kerrygleeson.com/,
maybe he would like to hear from an old friend.

At the time of the Mission Holder's conference, LRH was still on the line and had at least some of his wits about him. Did he know of Franks being thrown out and approve of it. After all he had appointed Franks and made his office the Senior authority in the C of S. Wouldn't he have objected to Franks being canned? Do you know or perhaps Veda will appear and shed light on this puzzling issue of how Franks was so easily unmocke

Also, your earlier post about an abusive husband being unpredictable and led a wife to walk around on eggshells, always trying not to provoke the next outburst. I thought that was a great simile to LRH's management style.
Lakey

There are a lot of parallels between LRH and the "charming abuser" personality type. As far as how Franks got booted, see the writeup about the Mission Holder's conference. DM was able to convince LRH that Franks was trying a coup against LRH, which ws the kiss of death for Franks.

 

[Enthetan]

Also, your earlier post about an abusive husband being unpredictable and led a wife to walk around on eggshells, always trying not to provoke the next outburst. I thought that was a great simile to LRH's management style.
Lakey

I very deliberately was gender-neutral in my description of abuser/victim, as women can also be abusers. The way they abuse is generally different, but they can be abusive. My mom was a charming/abuser.

When women get abusive, it generally takes the form of destroying your relationships with others or getting you in trouble with authorities via false reports rather than physical violence, but it can be just as hard to have to live with them.

 

[lkwdblds]

I feel like Lois Lane in the Superman Stories -

Paulette Cooper might disagree with you. Mary Sue relayed her husband's orders to destroy her via the 'Flagship's' telex machine. (To avoid confusion on this, the main Op to destroy Cooper - which almost succeeded the first time - was re-started four years later [April 1976], and re-named, as Op Freak Out, during Hubbard's time residing in Washington, DC., after he had secretly left Florida.)



The above Robert Dam link quotes Jon Atack from 1984, when Atack was on the UK 'OT Committee'. (!!!) Additional information became available after that, and Atack changed his views and conclusions somewhat. If one cares about this period, it might not be a bad idea to consult the views of former major Mission Holders, such as Corydon and Samuels, from 1986 or later, once the cult programming began to wear off and the pieces of the puzzle started to fall into place.

Yes, Hubbard went "off lines" for about a year, having become fearful of (very real, it wasn't due to "false reports") pending civil and legal consequences of his actions. Hubbard later came back on lines and ordered the looting of the Missions.

As for "If it isn't fun, it isn't Scientology," and the idea that, after 'KSW' and the establishing of the Sea Org, Scientology was "fun"... well... For what it's worth, here's a thread that touches on that... starting at post #8:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=15906&highlight=red,+shore

Over and out.

I feel like Lois Lane in the Superman movies and comic books or like the police commissioner in Batman. If Lois needs Superman, she just say, I wish Superman were here and he usually immediatley appears. If the police in Gotham need Batman, they just turn on that searchlight with the Batman stencil embedded in it and Batman appears. Same with Veda, just mention the name and that you are missing knowledge and Veda appears. Its really cool to have this ability to summon up Veda. Thank you Veda for responding so quickly.

Just a funny anecdote about Batman. I remember when the TV show started in 1965 that in San Francisco, two guys rigged up Batman and Robin costumes and went over to see the police and offer their services in fighting crime in the City and the police told them, thanks but no thanks.
Lakey

 

[Mark A. Baker]

At the time of the Mission Holder's conference, LRH was still on the line and had at least some of his wits about him.

This is reasonably disputed. The degree of LRH's actual capacity, awareness, & knowledge of those events has been argued over since that time. It's largely a question of "who do you trust" as many of the "best eye witnesses" also have some sort of stake in the possible interpretation of the events.

For me? It was Colonel Mustard with the lead pipe in the library.


Mark A. Baker