Hatshepsut
Crusader
.
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The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But
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Mark A. Baker
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From a letter to Mozart's cousin Maria-Anna
Just because you identify with someone, Lakey, doesn't make them wholly admirable.
Mark A. Baker
CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
no, we smoked grass to get high. We drank wine to be elite. I'm not kidding. My parents had always handed me wine when there was wine at the table. Neither of my parents drank more than a few glasses of anything alcoholic in a year. Wine was just a nice beverage --- think: What do Junior High School Playboy readers drink? wine
eat? french bread and salami
what did we discuss? Sartre, Heinlein, Huxley, Leary, Rand
who carried (and used) slide rules?
who went to see Baez, Dylan, Joni Mitchell, Peter, Paul, and Mary when they came to town or to Big Sur?
what group of kids altered the computer punch cards used for grading?
who would have been most likely to be fingered as geeks (if the word had been currently in vogue)?
we were very full of ourselves.
CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
By the Way,
One of our regular contributors neglected to tell us of the Polka Hall of Fame winners announced yesterday in the fair city of Cleveland, OH. I know it's known for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but NPR did a segment today on those Stomach Steinway players and they were hot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gi9tgtWcqek&feature=related
One of our regular contributors neglected to tell us of the Polka Hall of Fame winners announced yesterday in the fair city of Cleveland, OH. I know it's known for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but NPR did a segment today on those Stomach Steinway players and they were hot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gi9tgtWcqek&feature=related
Hatshepsut
Crusader
We grew up with a small glass of wine set up by each chair at Sunday dinner. No one liked the cheap wine, that was a tradition. So at 7 yrs old I got to polish off the Cribari, and the Mateus, and the Chianti and ...
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CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
From a letter to Mozart's cousin Maria-Anna
Just because you identify with someone, Lakey, doesn't make them wholly admirable.
Mark A. Baker
Lakey,
before you shit a brick.....
he isn't kidding.
This is an excerpt from Wiipedia:
Mozart and scatology
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Reproduction of the original manuscript of Mozart's canon "Difficile Lectu". The words "lectu mihi mars" were intended to be heard as "Leck du mich im Arsch", for which a relatively polite English rendering is "kiss my ass".
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart had a strong interest in scatological humor. This interest is reflected in his letters and in a few recreational compositions.
The scatological material has long been a puzzle for Mozart scholarship, and there have been two main responses. In one view, the scatology was the result of a condition from which Mozart is claimed to have suffered, particularly Tourette syndrome. The other view deals with the scatology by seeking an understanding of the role of scatological humor in Mozart's family, his society, and his times.
Contents [hide]
1 Examples
2 Viewing the scatology in context
2.1 Audience for Mozart's scatology
2.1.1 Letters
2.1.2 Music
2.1.3 Reactions of family and friends
2.2 Scatology and the 18th century
2.3 Scatology and German culture
3 Medical accounts
4 Scatological materials
4.1 Letters from Mozart
4.2 Music by Mozart
5 Notes
6 References
6.1 General
6.2 Tourette syndrome hypothesis
[edit]Examples
Self portrait in pencil of Maria Anna Thekla Mozart, from 1777 or 1778
Here is an example, from a letter of 5 November 1777 to his cousin Maria Anna Thekla Mozart. The German original[1] is in rhymed verse.
Well, I wish you good night
But first shit into your bed and make it burst.
Sleep soundly, my love
Into your mouth your arse you'll shove.[2]
Mozart's canon "Leck mich im Arsch" K. 231 (K6 382c) includes the lyrics below:
Leck mich im A[rsch] g'schwindi, g'schwindi!
This would be literally translated into English as "lick me in the arse/ass,[3] quickly, quickly!" "Leck mich in Arsch" is a standard vulgarism in German;[4] its closest English counterpart is "Kiss my arse/ass."
[edit]Viewing the scatology in context
The scatological letters and compositions, encountered by modern people, have produced bafflement, concern—even disbelief.[5] David Schroeder writes:
The passage of time has created an almost unbridgeable gulf between ourselves and Mozart's time, forcing us to misread his scatological letters even more drastically than his other letters. Very simply, these letters embarrass us, and we have tried to suppress them, trivialize them, or explain them out of the epistolary canon with pathological excuses.[6]
Scholars have suggested, as Schroeder's words indicate, that we can better understand the scatological materials by appealing to Mozart's own life, his circle of acquaintance and the culture of his place and time.
[edit]Audience for Mozart's scatology
Mozart's scatology was neither a private fetish nor a public eccentricity: the audience was family and friends. This can be seen both from the letters and the music.
[edit]Letters
Benjamin Simkin (see below) estimates that 39 of Mozart's letters include scatological passages. Almost all of these are Mozart's own family, specifically his father Leopold, his mother Anna Maria, his sister Nannerl, and his cousin Maria Anna Thekla Mozart. Leopold, Anna Maria, and Nannerl also included scatological humor in their own letters, though not with the same frequency as Wolfgang.[7] Thus, Anna Maria wrote to her husband (26 September 1777; original is in rhyme):
Addio, ben mio. Keep well, my love.
Into your mouth your arse you'll shove.
I wish you good night, my dear,
But first shit in your bed and make it burst.[8]
It can be seen that the words here are quite similar to what Mozart himself wrote several weeks later in the letter cited above. (The two were traveling together during the early part of Mozart's unsuccessful job-hunting expedition of 1777-1779.) Even the relatively straight-laced Leopold used a scatological expression in one letter.[9]
Probably the most famous of Mozart's scatological letters were written to his cousin (and probable love interest)[10] Maria Anna Thekla Mozart; these are often called the "Bäsle letters", after the German word Bäsle, a diminutive form meaning "little cousin". In these letters, written after Mozart had spent a pleasant two weeks with his cousin in her native Augsburg,[11] the scatology is combined with extravagant word play and sexual references.[12] The word play makes them a challenge to translate; here is Robert Spaethling's rendering of part of a letter Mozart sent from Mannheim
November 5, 1777:
Deares cozz buzz!
I have received reprieved your highly esteemed writing biting, and I have noted doted thy my uncle garfuncle, my aunt slant, and you too, are all well mell. We, too thank god, are in good fettle kettle ... You write further, indeed you let it all out, you expose yourself, you let yourself be heard, you give me notice, you declare yourself, you indicate to me, you bring me the news, you announce unto me, you state in broad daylight, you demand, you desire, you wish, you want, you like, you command that I, too, should could send you my Portrait. Eh bien, I shall mail fail it for sure. Oui, by the love of my skin, I shit on your nose, so it runs down your chin...[13]
The Bäsle letters continue a style of scatological humor already established while Mozart was visiting Augsburg. One of the letters Mozart wrote to his father at the time reports an encounter Mozart and his cousin had with a priest named Father Emilian:
[He was] an arrogant ass and a simple-minded little wit of his profession .. finally when he was a little drunk, which happened soon, he started on about music. He sang a canon, and said: I have never in my life heard anything more beautiful ... He started. I took the third voice, but I slipped in an entirely different text: 'P[ater] E: o du schwanz, leck mich im arsch' ["Father Emilian, oh you prick, lick me in the ass"]. Sotto voce, to my cousin. Then we laughed together for another half hour.[14]
[edit]Music
Mozart's scatological music was recreational and shared among friends. All of it takes the form of canons (rounds), in which each voice enters with the same words and music following a delay after the previous voice. Based on the testimony of Gottfried Weber[15] it appears this music was sung in social gatherings. None of it was published in Mozart's lifetime.
[edit]Reactions of family and friends
Both the letters and the music were written on repeated occasions, suggesting that the recipients probably were not offended by them. There appears to be nothing in the correspondence requesting Mozart to stop his scatologizing.
On the other hand, it seems to have been recognized that things said or sung within the family or among friends might be unsuitable for public consumption. In 1798, Constanze sent her late husband's Bäsle letters to the publishers Breitkopf & Härtel, who at the time were gathering material in hopes of preparing a Mozart biography.[16] In the accompanying letter she wrote "Although in dubious taste, the letters to his cousin are full of wit and deserve mentioning, although they cannot of course be published in their entirety."[17]
[edit]Scatology and the 18th century
Gottfried Prehauser, an actor of 18th century Vienna, playing Hanswurst
While scatological humor obviously has not disappeared in our own time, Schroeder (1999) suggests that in the 18th century it was far more public and "mainstream". The German-language popular theater of Mozart's time was influenced by the Italian commedia dell' arte and emphasized the stock character of Hanswurst, a coarse and robust character who would entertain his audience by pretending to eat large and unlikely objects (for instance, a whole calf), then defecating them.[18]
Schroeder also suggests a political underlay to the scatology in popular theater: its viewers lived under a system of hereditary aristocracy that excluded them from political participation. The vulgarity of scatological popular theater was a counterpoint to the refined culture imposed from above.[19] One of Mozart's own letters pokes fun at the aristocracy in scatological terms; he identified the aristocrats present at a concert in Augsburg (1777) as "the Duchess Smackarse, the Countess Pleasurepisser, the Princess Stinkmess, and the two Princes Potbelly von Pigtail".[20]
[edit]Scatology and German culture
The folklorist and cultural anthropologist Alan Dundes suggested that interest in or tolerance for scatalogical matters is a specific trait of German national culture, one which is retained to this day:[21]
In German folklore, one finds an inordinate number of texts concerned with anality. Scheisse (shit), Dreck (dirt), Mist (manure), Arsch (ass), and other locutions are commonplace. Folksongs, folktales, proverbs, folk speech--all attest to the Germans' longstanding special interest in this area of human activity. I am not claiming that other peoples of the world do not express a healthy concern for this area, but rather that the Germans appear to be preoccupied with such themes. It is thus not so much a matter of difference as it is of degree.[22]
Dundes (1984) provides ample coverage of scatological humor in Mozart, but also cites scatological texts from Martin Luther, Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, Heinrich Heine, and other luminaries of German culture. Karhausen (1993) asserts that "Scatology was common in Mitteleuropa, [central Europe]" noting for instance that Mozart's Salzburg colleague Michael Haydn also wrote a scatological canon.[23]
Some of the phrases used by Mozart in his scatological material were not original with him but were part of the folklore and culture of his day: Mieder (2003) describes the Bäsle letters as involving "Mozart's intentional play with what is for the most part preformulated folk speech."[24] An example given by Robert Spaethling is the folkloric origin of a phrase seen above, "Gute Nacht, scheiss ins Bett dass' Kracht," said by Spaethling to be a "children's rhyme that is still current in south German language areas today." [25] Likewise, when Mozart sang to Aloysia Weber the words "Leck mich das Mensch im Arsch, das mich nicht will" ("The one who doesn't want me can lick my ass") on the occasion of being romantically rejected by her, he was evidently singing an existing folk tune, not a song of his own invention.[26]
[edit]Medical accounts
See also: Sociological and cultural aspects of Tourette syndrome#Speculation about notable individuals
An early 20th century observer who suspected that Mozart's scatological materials could be interpreted in terms of psychological pathologies was the Austrian writer Stefan Zweig, who amassed a large collection of musical manuscripts. His collection included the Bäsle letters (at the time, unpublished) as well as the autographs of Mozart's scatological canons Difficile lectu and O du eselhafter Peierl.[27] Zweig sent copies of the Bäsle letters to the celebrated psychiatrist Sigmund Freud with the following suggestion:
These nine letters ... throw a psychologically very remarkable light on his erotic nature, which, more so than any other important man, has elements of infantilism and coprophilia. It would actually be a very interesting study for one of your pupils.[28]
Freud apparently declined Zweig's suggestion. As Schroeder notes, later psychobiographers seized on the letters as evidence for psychopathological tendencies in Mozart.[29]
A variety of authors (see References below) have interpreted the documentary material as evidence that Mozart suffered from Tourette's syndrome. Among these the work of Simkin (1992) appears to be the most widely cited and discussed. Simkin catalogued the scatological letters and compared their frequencies with similar vulgarisms from other members of Mozart's family—they are far more frequent. The scatological materials were combined by Simkin with biographical accounts from Mozart's own time that suggested that Mozart suffered from the tics characteristic of Tourette's syndrome.
While often discussed, the Mozart/Tourette hypothesis has failed to sway mainstream opinion on this issue. Indeed, Kammer (2007) states that the work proposing the hypothesis has been "promptly and harshly" criticized. The critical commentary (see References below) asserts both medical misdiagnosis and errors of Mozart scholarship.
CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
We grew up with a small glass of wine set up by each chair at Sunday dinner. No one liked the cheap wine, that was a tradition. So at 7 yrs old I got to polish off the Cribari, and the Mateus, and the Chianti and ...
one of my more favorite memories was when I had been working on a farm tractor, and for lunch, we gathered under the cool shade of the water tower, ate our lunches, talked and drank homemade wine from the grapes a hundred feet away. It was so "Steinbeck"
CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
ummmmmmmmm
where fingers go, tongues seem to follow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_PcyibEPao
Hatshepsut
Crusader
CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
In two hours at 3 AM Pacific Time, 6 AM Eastern Time Zone there is a terrific TV show on MSNBC. It is called "Morning Joe" I have to think most of the senators and congressmen and that ilk watch it daily. I'm hooked, and i live on the left coast
It goes from 6 - 9 in the east.
Check it out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBevBb7aZJw
It goes from 6 - 9 in the east.
Check it out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBevBb7aZJw
Hatshepsut
Crusader
OK
FoTi
Crusader
In about that year, there was a "Time" article / expose of "Puff"
That same year, I remember smoking a banana peel joint with my girl friend (she looks so straight, she wasn't -- introduced me to jazz and the beats especially "On the Road"). We smoked other things besides banana peels.
because of this song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCCjv2OiTxE
What kind of high do you get from smoking banana peels?
SweetnessandLight
Crusader
I say this with LOVE...
What do you mean, "were"???
Foti, I think you probably just get a headache! How do these urban myths get started, anyway?
What do you mean, "were"??? Foti, I think you probably just get a headache! How do these urban myths get started, anyway?
lkwdblds
Crusader
This is total absurdity
Mark, you may mean well but you have only partial knowledge. For the passage you quoted to prove that Mozart was a sexist, you would have to prove at least two things:
1. Mozart did not write things of this nature to men as well.
2. The woman Mozart wrote this to did not write him similar foul mouthed things.
First, he learned this type of language from his Mother. On a trip to Paris with his Mother when he was 23l his Mother accompanied him. A well known letter of hers, written to his Father, Leopold, his Mother chides Leopold for doing something stupid and say, "Into your Arse, your head you have shoved!" Leopold was very prim and proper and did not use such language but Mozart learned it from his Mother.
Second, the person Mozart wrote your above letter to was Maria Anna Thekla Mozart who was his first cousin who lived in Augsburg. The two of them were the same age and met on one of Mozart's trips with his Father when they stopped in Augsburg. to visit Leopold's brother and his family. The cousin's nickname was "Basle". She was equally a foul mouthed person and a jokester just like Wolfgang. The had a teen ager love afair where they had sex several times and they exchanged letters for a time after that. Basle's letters to Mozart were equally foul mouthed as Wolfgang's above letter to her. They were both equally foul mouthed to each other.
Third, Mozart wrote letters using equally foul language to his close male friends. One such person was the French Horn player, Ignaz Leutgeb who Mozart wrote his 4 French Horn concertos for. Mozart and Leutbgeb were good friends and associates in Mozart's early Salzburg days. Leutgeb moved to Vienna later on and the two hooked up again as friends and musical associates. Leutgeb did not make enough money playing the French Horn to survive on so he opened a cheese monger's shoppe in Vienna. Mozart wrote him several letters when he was away from Vienna and traveling and also wrote him dedications when he presented his Horn Concertos to Leutgeb. Mozart's letters to Leutgeb often included references to shit and bathroom humor. With his close companions he liked to joke and use foul language - he thought it was humorous.
Mozart even wrote a musical piece with foul lyrics about some wretched hotel he stayed in. It is sort of in Madrigal form and repeatedly calls the hotel and the staff there "shitholes" and things of that nature. I will try and Google this piece and see if I can find the lyrics.
Mozart used foul language against men and women indescriminately, not just on women as you suggest.
Here is an article on his propensity to use foul language:
Mozart’s movements and behaviour: a case of Tourette’s syndrome?
A Ashoori, J Jankovic
+ Author Affiliations
Parkinson Disease Center and Movement Disorder Clinic, Department of Neurology, Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Texas, USA
Professor Joseph Jankovic, Director, Parkinson’s Disease Center, and Movement Disorders Clinic, Baylor College of Medicine, Department of Neurology, The Smith Tower, Suite 1801, 6550 Fannin, Houston, TX 77030, USA; [email protected]
Received 3 January 2007
Revised 9 February 2007
Accepted 23 February 2007
Abstract
In this review, we intend to explore the often asked question: “Did Mozart have Tourette’s syndrome?” Although there are numerous reports attributing Mozart’s peculiar personality and behaviour to a spectrum of neurobehavioural disorders such as Tourette’s syndrome, autistic disorder, Asperger’s syndrome, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, obsessive–compulsive disorder and paediatric autoimmune neuropsychiatric disorders associated with streptococcal infection, the evidence for any of these disorders is lacking. Whether Mozart’s behaviour was nothing more than a reflection of his unique personality or a more complex neurological disorder, aggravated later in life by enormous demands by his father and society, his behaviour has been the subject of many biographies. It will also remain unknown to what extent his accomplishments and failures were shaped by his childhood experiences, pressured lifestyle, and his innate genius and extraordinary talent. Lessons from his life may have important implications for other gifted individuals and savants whose special attributes may lead them to succeed or, on the other hand, suppress their emotional growth and make them more vulnerable to stress and failure.
Lakey
From a letter to Mozart's cousin Maria-Anna
Just because you identify with someone, Lakey, doesn't make them wholly admirable.
Mark A. Baker
Mark, you may mean well but you have only partial knowledge. For the passage you quoted to prove that Mozart was a sexist, you would have to prove at least two things:
1. Mozart did not write things of this nature to men as well.
2. The woman Mozart wrote this to did not write him similar foul mouthed things.
First, he learned this type of language from his Mother. On a trip to Paris with his Mother when he was 23l his Mother accompanied him. A well known letter of hers, written to his Father, Leopold, his Mother chides Leopold for doing something stupid and say, "Into your Arse, your head you have shoved!" Leopold was very prim and proper and did not use such language but Mozart learned it from his Mother.
Second, the person Mozart wrote your above letter to was Maria Anna Thekla Mozart who was his first cousin who lived in Augsburg. The two of them were the same age and met on one of Mozart's trips with his Father when they stopped in Augsburg. to visit Leopold's brother and his family. The cousin's nickname was "Basle". She was equally a foul mouthed person and a jokester just like Wolfgang. The had a teen ager love afair where they had sex several times and they exchanged letters for a time after that. Basle's letters to Mozart were equally foul mouthed as Wolfgang's above letter to her. They were both equally foul mouthed to each other.
Third, Mozart wrote letters using equally foul language to his close male friends. One such person was the French Horn player, Ignaz Leutgeb who Mozart wrote his 4 French Horn concertos for. Mozart and Leutbgeb were good friends and associates in Mozart's early Salzburg days. Leutgeb moved to Vienna later on and the two hooked up again as friends and musical associates. Leutgeb did not make enough money playing the French Horn to survive on so he opened a cheese monger's shoppe in Vienna. Mozart wrote him several letters when he was away from Vienna and traveling and also wrote him dedications when he presented his Horn Concertos to Leutgeb. Mozart's letters to Leutgeb often included references to shit and bathroom humor. With his close companions he liked to joke and use foul language - he thought it was humorous.
Mozart even wrote a musical piece with foul lyrics about some wretched hotel he stayed in. It is sort of in Madrigal form and repeatedly calls the hotel and the staff there "shitholes" and things of that nature. I will try and Google this piece and see if I can find the lyrics.
Mozart used foul language against men and women indescriminately, not just on women as you suggest.
Here is an article on his propensity to use foul language:
Mozart’s movements and behaviour: a case of Tourette’s syndrome?
A Ashoori, J Jankovic
+ Author Affiliations
Parkinson Disease Center and Movement Disorder Clinic, Department of Neurology, Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Texas, USA
Professor Joseph Jankovic, Director, Parkinson’s Disease Center, and Movement Disorders Clinic, Baylor College of Medicine, Department of Neurology, The Smith Tower, Suite 1801, 6550 Fannin, Houston, TX 77030, USA; [email protected]
Received 3 January 2007
Revised 9 February 2007
Accepted 23 February 2007
Abstract
In this review, we intend to explore the often asked question: “Did Mozart have Tourette’s syndrome?” Although there are numerous reports attributing Mozart’s peculiar personality and behaviour to a spectrum of neurobehavioural disorders such as Tourette’s syndrome, autistic disorder, Asperger’s syndrome, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, obsessive–compulsive disorder and paediatric autoimmune neuropsychiatric disorders associated with streptococcal infection, the evidence for any of these disorders is lacking. Whether Mozart’s behaviour was nothing more than a reflection of his unique personality or a more complex neurological disorder, aggravated later in life by enormous demands by his father and society, his behaviour has been the subject of many biographies. It will also remain unknown to what extent his accomplishments and failures were shaped by his childhood experiences, pressured lifestyle, and his innate genius and extraordinary talent. Lessons from his life may have important implications for other gifted individuals and savants whose special attributes may lead them to succeed or, on the other hand, suppress their emotional growth and make them more vulnerable to stress and failure.
Lakey
CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
we got high, but I think it was all in our minds, predisposed to do just that. We only did it once. People, and I certainly include myself, can be so stupid.
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CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
regarding scatological stuff
having had a number of children and grandchildren, I think I'm relatively flat on the subject of shit.
Some years back, I had a PC, who liked to play scat games with lovers. While on the phone with the person, I quickly googled "scat" for I had no idea what was being talked about.
Once I knew what was going on, and I knew no one was being harmed, I was fine with running processes and two way comm that enabled the person to own their desires and pleasures, rather than hide them, and be all twisted and turned inside.
There are plenty of things that we all do, individually, that can be out of others' reality of "the straight and narrow."
There is no right or wrong on so many areas of choice. We tend to default to what our parents and peers consider acceptable, without ever examining our personal opinions or even making an opinion.
The picture of the girl friend, that I posted, yesterday was an accurate picture. She always dressed very nice by societal standards. Under that sweet happy peppy preppie veneer was a sexual beast (and I mean that with high affinity reality and communication). I had read Playboy since I was in 6th grade, and she showed me things that even Playboy didn't cover. I had never seen, nor even heard of a butt plug, until we hooked up.
Any way, what I'm getting at is the ability to grant beingness to others' choices and actions so long as nobody gets hurt is a really important thing.
Choosing to put others in a category of "lesser person" because of some non harmful quality is individuating and demeaning to the party doing the judging.
having had a number of children and grandchildren, I think I'm relatively flat on the subject of shit.
Some years back, I had a PC, who liked to play scat games with lovers. While on the phone with the person, I quickly googled "scat" for I had no idea what was being talked about.
Once I knew what was going on, and I knew no one was being harmed, I was fine with running processes and two way comm that enabled the person to own their desires and pleasures, rather than hide them, and be all twisted and turned inside.
There are plenty of things that we all do, individually, that can be out of others' reality of "the straight and narrow."
There is no right or wrong on so many areas of choice. We tend to default to what our parents and peers consider acceptable, without ever examining our personal opinions or even making an opinion.
The picture of the girl friend, that I posted, yesterday was an accurate picture. She always dressed very nice by societal standards. Under that sweet happy peppy preppie veneer was a sexual beast (and I mean that with high affinity reality and communication). I had read Playboy since I was in 6th grade, and she showed me things that even Playboy didn't cover. I had never seen, nor even heard of a butt plug, until we hooked up.
Any way, what I'm getting at is the ability to grant beingness to others' choices and actions so long as nobody gets hurt is a really important thing.
Choosing to put others in a category of "lesser person" because of some non harmful quality is individuating and demeaning to the party doing the judging.
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CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
Iconic face of Rosie the Riveter poster dies
AFP/NA-HO/File – A Michigan factory worker used as the unwitting model for the wartime Rosie the Riveter poster, seen …
– 31 mins ago
CHICAGO (AFP) – A Michigan factory worker used as the unwitting model for the wartime Rosie the Riveter poster whose inspirational "We Can Do It!" message became an icon of the feminist movement has died.
Geraldine Doyle died Sunday, a spokesman for the Hospice House of Mid Michigan told AFP. She was 86.
Doyle didn't realize she had a famous face until she was flipping through a magazine in 1982 and spotted a reproduction of the poster, her daughter told The New York Times.
But while Doyle recognized her face under the red bandana, the strong arm held up in a fist wasn't hers.
"She didn't have big, muscular arms," Mrs. Gregg said. "She was 5-foot-10 and very slender. She was a glamour girl. The arched eyebrows, the beautiful lips, the shape of the face -- that's her."
Doyle was just 17 when she took at job at a metal pressing plant near Ann Arbor, Michigan in 1942.
She quit about two weeks later after learning that another woman had badly injured her hand on the job -- she was worried she'd lose the ability to play the cello, her daughter said.
She was there, however, when a United Press International photographer came to the factory while documenting the contribution of women to the war effort.
A picture of Doyle was later used by J. Howard Miller, a graphic artist at Westinghouse, for the poster which was aimed at encouraging women to enter the workforce and deterring strikes and absenteeism.
The poster was not widely seen until the 1980's when it was embraced by the feminist movement.
The term "Rosie the Riveter" stems from a 1942 song honoring the women who took over critical factory jobs when men went off to war.
Another Michigan woman, Rose Will Monroe, was the best-known "Rosie" after being featured in a wartime promotional film about female factory workers.
Doyle was quick to correct people who thought she was the original Rosie the Riveter, Gregg told the Lansing State Journal.
"She would say that she was the 'We Can Do It!" girl," Gregg said. "She never wanted to take anything away from the other Rosies."
A funeral service is set for Tuesday. Gregg did not immediate return a request for comment.
AFP/NA-HO/File – A Michigan factory worker used as the unwitting model for the wartime Rosie the Riveter poster, seen …
– 31 mins ago
CHICAGO (AFP) – A Michigan factory worker used as the unwitting model for the wartime Rosie the Riveter poster whose inspirational "We Can Do It!" message became an icon of the feminist movement has died.
Geraldine Doyle died Sunday, a spokesman for the Hospice House of Mid Michigan told AFP. She was 86.
Doyle didn't realize she had a famous face until she was flipping through a magazine in 1982 and spotted a reproduction of the poster, her daughter told The New York Times.
But while Doyle recognized her face under the red bandana, the strong arm held up in a fist wasn't hers.
"She didn't have big, muscular arms," Mrs. Gregg said. "She was 5-foot-10 and very slender. She was a glamour girl. The arched eyebrows, the beautiful lips, the shape of the face -- that's her."
Doyle was just 17 when she took at job at a metal pressing plant near Ann Arbor, Michigan in 1942.
She quit about two weeks later after learning that another woman had badly injured her hand on the job -- she was worried she'd lose the ability to play the cello, her daughter said.
She was there, however, when a United Press International photographer came to the factory while documenting the contribution of women to the war effort.
A picture of Doyle was later used by J. Howard Miller, a graphic artist at Westinghouse, for the poster which was aimed at encouraging women to enter the workforce and deterring strikes and absenteeism.
The poster was not widely seen until the 1980's when it was embraced by the feminist movement.
The term "Rosie the Riveter" stems from a 1942 song honoring the women who took over critical factory jobs when men went off to war.
Another Michigan woman, Rose Will Monroe, was the best-known "Rosie" after being featured in a wartime promotional film about female factory workers.
Doyle was quick to correct people who thought she was the original Rosie the Riveter, Gregg told the Lansing State Journal.
"She would say that she was the 'We Can Do It!" girl," Gregg said. "She never wanted to take anything away from the other Rosies."
A funeral service is set for Tuesday. Gregg did not immediate return a request for comment.
Ted
Gold Meritorious Patron
Close of An Era
Recently I have been scanning old slides and negatives to computer. I have to admit that the ease of the digital "darkroom" beats the labor intensive days of sharing a photo lab or converting the bathroom into a temp darkroom. Yet, with the loss of Kodachrome something wonderful about the photographic image process will be missed.
My Kodachromes shot and developed as early as 1968 are still a thrill to behold. ASA 25, slow but oh, so fine. Eventually I shifted to Ektachrome ASA 160. Shooting on the move required a bit more flexibility with changing light situations. I fancied myself a budding National Geographic reporter. (When the SO would trot out Hubbard images to show how great the master was, I would just about hurl.)
My Ektachrome images have held up as well as the Kodachromes. I shot a few rolls of Agfachrome in the early '70s simply because it was available. Those slides are just about a total waste having a very purple cast slide after slide. Nope, nothing compared to Kodachrome except Ektachrome.
Years later, before the digital age, Fuji put a hurt on Kodak. Photographers switched to Fujichrome for its more saturated colors. I still preferred the natural look of the Kodak products.
The ease of digital photography delivered the death knell to work in the darkness with film and chemicals. I can sit here at my desk, in the daylight, looking out my picture window at the cardinals feeding, the cranes checking out my front lawn, and the hawks on my rain gutter or streetlight, and all the while be scanning, correcting, cropping, printing, and even sending photos off to friends by email. That's hard to beat for ease and multiprocessing as life rolls by outside my window.
Full article here: Kodachrome's road ends at Kansas photo lab
Close of an era: The last roll of the beloved color film gets processed
PARSONS, Kan. — An unlikely pilgrimage is under way to Dwayne’s Photo, a small family business that has through luck and persistence become the last processor in the world of Kodachrome, the first successful color film and still the most beloved.
That celebrated 75-year run from mainstream to niche photography is scheduled to come to an end on Thursday when the last processing machine is shut down here to be sold for scrap. [...]
Recently I have been scanning old slides and negatives to computer. I have to admit that the ease of the digital "darkroom" beats the labor intensive days of sharing a photo lab or converting the bathroom into a temp darkroom. Yet, with the loss of Kodachrome something wonderful about the photographic image process will be missed.
My Kodachromes shot and developed as early as 1968 are still a thrill to behold. ASA 25, slow but oh, so fine. Eventually I shifted to Ektachrome ASA 160. Shooting on the move required a bit more flexibility with changing light situations. I fancied myself a budding National Geographic reporter. (When the SO would trot out Hubbard images to show how great the master was, I would just about hurl.)
My Ektachrome images have held up as well as the Kodachromes. I shot a few rolls of Agfachrome in the early '70s simply because it was available. Those slides are just about a total waste having a very purple cast slide after slide. Nope, nothing compared to Kodachrome except Ektachrome.
Years later, before the digital age, Fuji put a hurt on Kodak. Photographers switched to Fujichrome for its more saturated colors. I still preferred the natural look of the Kodak products.
The ease of digital photography delivered the death knell to work in the darkness with film and chemicals. I can sit here at my desk, in the daylight, looking out my picture window at the cardinals feeding, the cranes checking out my front lawn, and the hawks on my rain gutter or streetlight, and all the while be scanning, correcting, cropping, printing, and even sending photos off to friends by email. That's hard to beat for ease and multiprocessing as life rolls by outside my window.
Full article here: Kodachrome's road ends at Kansas photo lab
Close of an era: The last roll of the beloved color film gets processed
PARSONS, Kan. — An unlikely pilgrimage is under way to Dwayne’s Photo, a small family business that has through luck and persistence become the last processor in the world of Kodachrome, the first successful color film and still the most beloved.
That celebrated 75-year run from mainstream to niche photography is scheduled to come to an end on Thursday when the last processing machine is shut down here to be sold for scrap. [...]
lkwdblds
Crusader
Thanks for finding this Carmelo
Thank you very much Carmelo for finding this research. In my studies of Mozart's life starting when I was 19 or 20, a perioid of 52 years, I had read most of his scatalogical writings and heard several of the musical pieces with scatalogical lyrics.
I never associated any of this stuff with "sexism". When MAB posted his 1779 letter to his cousin, Basle, I was astonished that MAB was using one sentence in this letter as proof that Mozart was "sexist". In all fairness to MAB, I can see that someone could construe the letter to show "sexism" if that letter was simply taken out of context. Even then, however, I feel MAB took a quantum leap, in the logic he used to arrive at his erroneous conclusion that the letter proved Mozart to be "sexist".
MAB would have had to prove that Mozart used Scatology only with women and never with men and that women did not use it with him as well, in a playful manner. He merely noted one sentence in a letter and from that one fragment asserted Wolfgang Mozart to be sexist. Clearly this is not a sound and valid way to do research or to in effect use libel against a famous historical person. I labeled it a cheap shot and in this I believe I am accurate.
I do not know why MAB would go out of his way to libel Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart and then defend his actions in various rebutals to my protests against him doing so. What was it he was trying to prove with his inaccurate analysis?
There is an urge to take 21st century United States culture and politically correct points of view and apply them to the cultures of bygone times and different places as if the 21st century, USA politically correct culture is some sort of gospel of truth. It broke my heart when Thomas Jefferson's name was taken off of an elementary school last year and replaced with a black person's name for that school simply because Thomas Jefferson once owned slaves.
To me, Jefferson was instrumental in ultimately getting slavery banned in the United States. He knew it was wrong and in no uncertain terms his writings helped greatly in eventually getting slavery outlawed. His name belongs on that school and an injustice occurred when it was removed on the grounds that he was racist.
Similarly, 21st century politically correct views cannot, with validity, be applied to 18th century Austrian culture to determine someone's character. An effort to take one sentence out of an innocent and playful letter a person wrote to his cousin, 230 years ago, and use that snippet to libel a famous historical person as being "sexist" is clearly an invalid and nonsensical act.
Mozart's canon, "Kiss My Ass"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dz1tj2tu794&NR=1
A beautiful version with 6 guitars in the form of a round:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-4V9rDEoiU&feature=related
Lakey
Thank you very much Carmelo for finding this research. In my studies of Mozart's life starting when I was 19 or 20, a perioid of 52 years, I had read most of his scatalogical writings and heard several of the musical pieces with scatalogical lyrics.
I never associated any of this stuff with "sexism". When MAB posted his 1779 letter to his cousin, Basle, I was astonished that MAB was using one sentence in this letter as proof that Mozart was "sexist". In all fairness to MAB, I can see that someone could construe the letter to show "sexism" if that letter was simply taken out of context. Even then, however, I feel MAB took a quantum leap, in the logic he used to arrive at his erroneous conclusion that the letter proved Mozart to be "sexist".
MAB would have had to prove that Mozart used Scatology only with women and never with men and that women did not use it with him as well, in a playful manner. He merely noted one sentence in a letter and from that one fragment asserted Wolfgang Mozart to be sexist. Clearly this is not a sound and valid way to do research or to in effect use libel against a famous historical person. I labeled it a cheap shot and in this I believe I am accurate.
I do not know why MAB would go out of his way to libel Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart and then defend his actions in various rebutals to my protests against him doing so. What was it he was trying to prove with his inaccurate analysis?
There is an urge to take 21st century United States culture and politically correct points of view and apply them to the cultures of bygone times and different places as if the 21st century, USA politically correct culture is some sort of gospel of truth. It broke my heart when Thomas Jefferson's name was taken off of an elementary school last year and replaced with a black person's name for that school simply because Thomas Jefferson once owned slaves.
To me, Jefferson was instrumental in ultimately getting slavery banned in the United States. He knew it was wrong and in no uncertain terms his writings helped greatly in eventually getting slavery outlawed. His name belongs on that school and an injustice occurred when it was removed on the grounds that he was racist.
Similarly, 21st century politically correct views cannot, with validity, be applied to 18th century Austrian culture to determine someone's character. An effort to take one sentence out of an innocent and playful letter a person wrote to his cousin, 230 years ago, and use that snippet to libel a famous historical person as being "sexist" is clearly an invalid and nonsensical act.
Mozart's canon, "Kiss My Ass"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dz1tj2tu794&NR=1
A beautiful version with 6 guitars in the form of a round:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-4V9rDEoiU&feature=related
Lakey
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lkwdblds
Crusader
Excellent post!
Thank you for this fine post Carmelo. Your text and analysis are quite new and refreshing and I learned something from reading your point of view on this. Thank you very much!!
Lakey
Thank you for this fine post Carmelo. Your text and analysis are quite new and refreshing and I learned something from reading your point of view on this. Thank you very much!!
Lakey
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