The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But
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Hatshepsut
Crusader
The penalty for engaging in such methods of control and manipulation is the ending up with embedded Justifications. Kinda actually like .... If we are not viewed as any more than cattle how can it be a transgression for us to be subjugated. We do not worry about our karma when eating chicken McNuggets or having a steak on a Firday night out.
We did not worry about going to hell when we had slaves working the plantation. We can catch a fish without feeling guilty. So why would some beings who do not 'feel' us, identify with the human condition. Its anguishing to think anyone could walk away from this Scott free after causing suppression like the Afrikaners walked away after apartheid. When or where does one get his due.
It seems like you have to be in a similar valence as that which you have harmed in order for mechanisms to recoil without you deciding them to.
The Nazis obviously did not feel like they were in the same valence as the Jews and felt they had their Justifications. How many suffered karmic payback. The Jews still suffer more guilt as a yoke than the ancient Nazis in Brazil.
Who can judge. I know, I only recently started to wonder if some of the cruelties we see are a result of acting out transgressions upon the self. Maybe those justice scales are being tipped to a leveling point by the pay OUT of karma in some cases.
I look around these days and see those who hurt or harangue because they
'CAN' and not because anyone deserves it.
********************************************************** We all want to experience power. The one power trip that I see a lot is with little boys.
Ages two and a half to maybe 5 and a half. Watch em sometimes in a park with squirrels or some such. First comes the semi squat with bended knees. Then the jump up and Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Then the rush and the jump up and stamp down. Always the same. 
It's part of the genetic programming. Terrifying small creatures.I used to be in charge of Children's Happy Hour (blue slurpees and Mickey Mouse and music and all) for 2 hours every day at my Disney Hotel. Yep. I got the kiddie bar :wink2: Outside we were like most days when it was sunny. I had the food for the little kids to feed the animals . The rabbits etc. Everybody was soooooo cute.
But the minute a tiny boy monster entered into the play area...Raaaaaaaaaaaaa....stamp, stomp.....squat.....and jump up and charge at the wildlife. Yaaaaaaaaaeeeh!!! 
No more camera happy moms and dads filming little susie feeding the squirrels from her palm.
S.O.P. 
All the animals run into the bushes. Why? Because its something they feel they can 'cause'.
First little taste of power. 
Last edited:
Jachs
Gold Meritorious Patron
The penalty for engaging in such methods of control and manipulation is the ending up with embedded Justifications. It's actually like this.. If we are not viewed as any more than cattle etc how can it be a transgression for us to be tortured. We do not worry about our karma for eating chicken mcnuggets or having a steak on a Firday night out.
We did not worry about going to hell when we had slaves working the plantation. We can catch a fish without feeling guilty. So why should some beings who do not 'feel' or identify with the human condition. Its anguishing to think anyone could walk away from us Scott free after causing suppression like the Afrikaners walked away after apartheid. Where or where does one get his due.
It seems like you have to be in a similar valence as that which you have harmed in order for mechanisms to recoil without you deciding them to.
The Nazis obviously did not feel like they were in the same valence as the Jews and felt they had Justifications. How many suffered karmic payback.
Who can judge. I know, I only recently started to wonder if some of the cruelties we see are a result of acting out transgressions upon the self. Maybe those justice scales are being tipped to a leveling point by the pay OUT of drama in some cases.
I look around these days and observe those who hurt or malign because they
'CAN' and not particularly because anyone deserved it. We all want to experience power. The one power trip that I see a lot is with little boys. Ages two and a half to maybe 5 and a half. Watch em sometimes in a park with squirrels or some such. First comes the semi squat with bended knees. Then the jump up and Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Then the rush and the jump up and stamp down. Always the same. It's part of the genetic programming.
I used to be in charge of Children's Happy Hour (blue slurpees and Mickey and all) for 2 hours every day at the Disney Hotel. Outside we were when like most days it was sunny. I had the food for the little kids to feed the animals . The rabbits etc. Everybody was soooooo cute. But the minute a tiny boy monster entered into the play area...Raaaaaaaaaaaaa....stomp.....squat....rush. No more camera happy moms and dads filming little susie feeding the squirrels from the palm.
I think your right that you have to agree to stay there and take it, take punishment, could it not be with the aggressor that its Greatest good, and justified that way, 6.8 billion souls and growing who care if a few die, Ron did say this and he said that so its ok...
most of a persons defences are deactivated, smothered by the group pressure.
I also see how the be helped and help switcharoo is a tie down button too.
Well all i can say is this, you walk into a party where the majority of the people are stressed, inhumane, rushed, unhappy,critical, making you wrong you know serious party poopers, you feel your anchor points withdraw, hostile
and then walk into the inviting room, where you are greeted with loud cheers warmth and granted the fact you exist are important and treasured. Open and friendly.
I agree withy the little shit though, i used to look after a friends kid and he could not walk past a snail without..well you know..squishin it with evil delight.
I look at what we saw about the brainwashing, well OBEY tech i prefer to call it. it reminds me of battered wives or any partner who stays you say why would they stay.Its just OBey! tech. Run down to fear, privation, shocks, intimidation. You put miscavige in prison with a bunch of real hard criminals and watch him start to obey over time with brutality out numbered and thats the stunt LRH pulled introducing KR and command intention , spying eyes watching for OUT this and that with punishments.
5
CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
These last few pages of post / reply by Hats and Jachss have been BRILLIANT!. It's 4 AM and I'm reading with half open eyes. hen I really wake up, I'm going to come back and really grok this fully. Thank you.
Ted
Gold Meritorious Patron
Haha.
[...]
I'm thinking of all the pioneers who went out West from the eastern seabord. You can imagine they must've gone into some shock crossing the Rockies in the snow. Or being stuck in Nebraska with the constant wind howling and Indians everywhere and no place to hide your babies. Or the young bride taken far far away from her family only to find out she's married a sadistic brute. I think a sort of numbness and shock must set in where the person realizes they have grossly miscalculated things. They have no place to go to if they back out. There is no support network. Their judgement has failed them their stable data is wrong.
[...]
In red, that's a perfect description of my final scientology experience. It would have been bad enough if I was single, on a horse, by myself. But, no. I was with wife and four young children. The indians circled the wagon almost daily. Rock, hard spot... Rock, hard spot... If only the calvary would leave me alone I could fight my way out of this mess. Rock, hard spot...
That calvary shoots its pioneers then retreats from the indians.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fTfGtC_8Qw&feature=related
lkwdblds
Crusader
Don't forget the most important justification!
Also, don't forget what IMHO is the most important justification. This justification does not arise from demeaning the victims, such as saying that fish are not important and its okay to eat them. This most important justification comes from the other side of the coin and that is the alleged importance of the "Mission" which the perpetrator is on!
This service fac type of construct is sanctioned in the Policy "Keeping Scientology Working" #1 and goes like this, "What you do here and now in Scn determines the fate of every man, woman, and child on this planet for the next trillionia so roll up your sleeves and whip the sluggards and laggards into shape."
An average person reading this is now suddenly empowered without any Karmic penalty or any moral retribution to lie to people, have them mortgage their houses and max out their credit cards for Bridge services or worse yet to contribute to the IAS, the Super Power Building or any of the various Ideal Org Buildings and furnishings!
The reader of KSW #1 who "star rates" and signs off on this policy letter is also immediately empowered to overrule a kids parents and decide that their kids must immediately cease their "Wog" education and join the Sea Org despite the parents objections. The reader must also shun and disconnect from all former family and friends who do not accept the Scn "party line" and also is empowered to infiltrate, spy on and remove documents from any government or agency which is seen as standing in C of S's way.
It is as if Hubbard and his minions have immediately deputized the reader of this first Policy Letter in every Scn course pack to join a posse and ransack any and all people, governments or areas of society which are judged to stand in the way of C of S achieving its goals while also ruthlessly whipping into shape through heavy "ethics" actions and RPF assignments, any sluggards on staff among them, who seems to be too reasonable in carrying out KSW #1.
When that former little kid who took delight in crushing every snail which crossed his path gets deputized by LRH to move up and do some much heavier crushing out in society you have a self righteous mini Hitler type personality who can commit all the crimes he wishes against virtually anyone he wants to and all with impunity and no karmic penalties.
Lakey
The penalty for engaging in such methods of control and manipulation is the ending up with embedded Justifications. Kinda actually like .... If we are not viewed as any more than cattle how can it be a transgression for us to be subjugated. We do not worry about our karma when eating chicken McNuggets or having a steak on a Firday night out.
We did not worry about going to hell when we had slaves working the plantation. We can catch a fish without feeling guilty. So why would some beings who do not 'feel' us, identify with the human condition. Its anguishing to think anyone could walk away from this Scott free after causing suppression like the Afrikaners walked away after apartheid. When or where does one get his due.
It seems like you have to be in a similar valence as that which you have harmed in order for mechanisms to recoil without you deciding them to.
The Nazis obviously did not feel like they were in the same valence as the Jews and felt they had their Justifications. How many suffered karmic payback. The Jews still suffer more guilt as a yoke than the ancient Nazis in Brazil.
Who can judge. I know, I only recently started to wonder if some of the cruelties we see are a result of acting out transgressions upon the self. Maybe those justice scales are being tipped to a leveling point by the pay OUT of karma in some cases.
I look around these days and see those who hurt or harangue because they
'CAN' and not because anyone deserves it.
********************************************************** We all want to experience power. The one power trip that I see a lot is with little boys.
I used to be in charge of Children's Happy Hour (blue slurpees and Mickey Mouse and music and all) for 2 hours every day at my Disney Hotel. Yep. I got the kiddie bar :wink2: Outside we were like most days when it was sunny. I had the food for the little kids to feed the animals . The rabbits etc. Everybody was soooooo cute.
No more camera happy moms and dads filming little susie feeding the squirrels from her palm.
All the animals run into the bushes. Why? Because its something they feel they can 'cause'.
Also, don't forget what IMHO is the most important justification. This justification does not arise from demeaning the victims, such as saying that fish are not important and its okay to eat them. This most important justification comes from the other side of the coin and that is the alleged importance of the "Mission" which the perpetrator is on!
This service fac type of construct is sanctioned in the Policy "Keeping Scientology Working" #1 and goes like this, "What you do here and now in Scn determines the fate of every man, woman, and child on this planet for the next trillionia so roll up your sleeves and whip the sluggards and laggards into shape."
An average person reading this is now suddenly empowered without any Karmic penalty or any moral retribution to lie to people, have them mortgage their houses and max out their credit cards for Bridge services or worse yet to contribute to the IAS, the Super Power Building or any of the various Ideal Org Buildings and furnishings!
The reader of KSW #1 who "star rates" and signs off on this policy letter is also immediately empowered to overrule a kids parents and decide that their kids must immediately cease their "Wog" education and join the Sea Org despite the parents objections. The reader must also shun and disconnect from all former family and friends who do not accept the Scn "party line" and also is empowered to infiltrate, spy on and remove documents from any government or agency which is seen as standing in C of S's way.
It is as if Hubbard and his minions have immediately deputized the reader of this first Policy Letter in every Scn course pack to join a posse and ransack any and all people, governments or areas of society which are judged to stand in the way of C of S achieving its goals while also ruthlessly whipping into shape through heavy "ethics" actions and RPF assignments, any sluggards on staff among them, who seems to be too reasonable in carrying out KSW #1.
When that former little kid who took delight in crushing every snail which crossed his path gets deputized by LRH to move up and do some much heavier crushing out in society you have a self righteous mini Hitler type personality who can commit all the crimes he wishes against virtually anyone he wants to and all with impunity and no karmic penalties.
Lakey
Ted
Gold Meritorious Patron
The Back Story
For anyone that might be interested:
The following link to Rathbun's site speaks of one Dr. Juan Villarreal of Harlingen, Texas. This is what happens to a decent human being when they get pumped up on scientology's ego boost. The raw materials scientology needs to perform its magic are: need of change/demand for improvement in the person; in other words, a seeker looking for something more than a kick-in-the-head existence; a source of income. In the case of a business, different than a bank account, inheritance, sale of insurance, etc., a business produces daily, weekly, monthly cash flow that can be seen by scientology sales people as limitless. Why? There's always another service to sell, and if you have bought them all, you can just make an outright donation. It's the "ethical" thing to do.
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2011/01/18/how-radical-scientology-rips-off-medicaid/
I was having some success in working with doctors in San Antonio. I had been traveling to Dallas/Ft. Worth, Austin, and Houston promoting thereabouts as best I could on a limited budget. Juan came to me at a time when I was fed up with the whole WISE game. But, he came via a referral by one of my San Antonio docs so I gave him my time and attention. Harlingen is a small border town, and Juan has a small practice, as it was explained to me, but a referral is a referral, and if a person shows interest on that basis then that's a better deal than starting from scratch.
So after a trip to San Antonio I hopped a plane with my travel partner, Chris. We flew into the Harlingen airport. It was a memorable landing--scared the poop out of me. For a second or two the plane got caught in a cross wind, slid on one set of tires at what seemed like a 45-degree angle, then straightened out on all wheels.
Even though I was briefed on this being a small place, I was surprised at how small and off the beaten path it was. My already sour mood neither lifted nor did it intensify. We checked into a local Holiday Inn. I had come to appreciate the comparative modest cost and adequate facilities at Holiday Inns. But this one was nothing like I had experienced. It was old. It was run down. So what? I parked my bags in the room then set out to kill some time before my scheduled talk that night.
How many people would be there? Probably not many. I was there primarily to speak with Dr. Villarreal. I went out in the courtyard. I say courtyard, but it was just a patch of grass, a few bushes, and a few lawn chairs surrounded by three sides of the Holiday Inn. The space wasn't large enough to put up a badminton net. Still, I distinctly remember sitting there, in the quiet, in the sun, completely relaxing. This was before cell phones. The only person who knew my whereabouts at that moment was my wife who, I think, set up the reservation.
As I sat in the courtyard I thought that I was in the perfect place should I want to get away from it all. No one would be able to find me. What a relief! What a fucking relief! My family was safe at home. I was safe in some border town--at least for the time being. Now that you know my gettaway spot, if I use it I will be checking in under an assumed name.
The time to give my talk came. I do not remember how we got to Juan's practice. I do not believe that we had a rental car. Nevertheless, I distinctly recall parts of the meeting.
I gave my talk, probably the usual with a bit of ad lib for the particular audience I was speaking to. I stood at the head of the table. There was nothing to write on so I just talked. Juan sat at the other end of the table listening. There were maybe 5 or 6 other people in the room. I did not care. I was there to speak with Juan.
Dr. Villarreal looked impatient a time or two. I was like "WTF?" He asked a few questions. I later realized his impatience was most likely over him just wanting to get on with it.
My disgust was raised to a new high, not because of the meeting. It's just that every day my disgust was raised to a new high. I could not see any honorable way out. Tired, fed up, the next morning I turned the sale over to Chris. He was with me to learn how to register the new docs so this time was as good as any.
What to do? "Just go in there and talk to the guy. Find out what he wants then show him how to get it. Sign the contract, collect the check." I accompanied Chris in the interview, but I had nothing to say. As I said earlier, it is easy to work with a referral in need of change/demand for improvement. We probably scheduled Juan for his first training session in Baton Rouge, then we packed up and left town.
Not long thereafter, Dr. Villarreal arrived in Baton Rouge for his training and consultation. His wife would also train, but I do not recall if that was on his first visit or not. His stats improved. We introduced him to the people at the Baton Rouge Mission. Here I will tell you something that was true time and time again: The amount of consulting a doc would require was inversely proportional to the amount of auditing he received. Those who pursued some auditing, even of only a little as in a Life Repair, faired far better, on far less work from the WISE consultant, than those who did not.
Dr. Villarreal's practice grew. He went to Flag for services. I met him around 1987/88 if I calculate correctly. I left WISE in Feb./Mar 1989. Once I was out and away from Scientology I was surprised to see him in Source magazine as a major contributor to the IAS. Oh, well... Whatever floats your boat.
But this story on Rathbun's site is way over the top. Way over the top. Criminal I'd say. Such is the nature of the scientology ego trap. And this was a guy who started out just wanting to make things better.
For anyone that might be interested:
The following link to Rathbun's site speaks of one Dr. Juan Villarreal of Harlingen, Texas. This is what happens to a decent human being when they get pumped up on scientology's ego boost. The raw materials scientology needs to perform its magic are: need of change/demand for improvement in the person; in other words, a seeker looking for something more than a kick-in-the-head existence; a source of income. In the case of a business, different than a bank account, inheritance, sale of insurance, etc., a business produces daily, weekly, monthly cash flow that can be seen by scientology sales people as limitless. Why? There's always another service to sell, and if you have bought them all, you can just make an outright donation. It's the "ethical" thing to do.
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2011/01/18/how-radical-scientology-rips-off-medicaid/
I was having some success in working with doctors in San Antonio. I had been traveling to Dallas/Ft. Worth, Austin, and Houston promoting thereabouts as best I could on a limited budget. Juan came to me at a time when I was fed up with the whole WISE game. But, he came via a referral by one of my San Antonio docs so I gave him my time and attention. Harlingen is a small border town, and Juan has a small practice, as it was explained to me, but a referral is a referral, and if a person shows interest on that basis then that's a better deal than starting from scratch.
So after a trip to San Antonio I hopped a plane with my travel partner, Chris. We flew into the Harlingen airport. It was a memorable landing--scared the poop out of me. For a second or two the plane got caught in a cross wind, slid on one set of tires at what seemed like a 45-degree angle, then straightened out on all wheels.
Even though I was briefed on this being a small place, I was surprised at how small and off the beaten path it was. My already sour mood neither lifted nor did it intensify. We checked into a local Holiday Inn. I had come to appreciate the comparative modest cost and adequate facilities at Holiday Inns. But this one was nothing like I had experienced. It was old. It was run down. So what? I parked my bags in the room then set out to kill some time before my scheduled talk that night.
How many people would be there? Probably not many. I was there primarily to speak with Dr. Villarreal. I went out in the courtyard. I say courtyard, but it was just a patch of grass, a few bushes, and a few lawn chairs surrounded by three sides of the Holiday Inn. The space wasn't large enough to put up a badminton net. Still, I distinctly remember sitting there, in the quiet, in the sun, completely relaxing. This was before cell phones. The only person who knew my whereabouts at that moment was my wife who, I think, set up the reservation.
As I sat in the courtyard I thought that I was in the perfect place should I want to get away from it all. No one would be able to find me. What a relief! What a fucking relief! My family was safe at home. I was safe in some border town--at least for the time being. Now that you know my gettaway spot, if I use it I will be checking in under an assumed name.
The time to give my talk came. I do not remember how we got to Juan's practice. I do not believe that we had a rental car. Nevertheless, I distinctly recall parts of the meeting.
I gave my talk, probably the usual with a bit of ad lib for the particular audience I was speaking to. I stood at the head of the table. There was nothing to write on so I just talked. Juan sat at the other end of the table listening. There were maybe 5 or 6 other people in the room. I did not care. I was there to speak with Juan.
Dr. Villarreal looked impatient a time or two. I was like "WTF?" He asked a few questions. I later realized his impatience was most likely over him just wanting to get on with it.
My disgust was raised to a new high, not because of the meeting. It's just that every day my disgust was raised to a new high. I could not see any honorable way out. Tired, fed up, the next morning I turned the sale over to Chris. He was with me to learn how to register the new docs so this time was as good as any.
What to do? "Just go in there and talk to the guy. Find out what he wants then show him how to get it. Sign the contract, collect the check." I accompanied Chris in the interview, but I had nothing to say. As I said earlier, it is easy to work with a referral in need of change/demand for improvement. We probably scheduled Juan for his first training session in Baton Rouge, then we packed up and left town.
Not long thereafter, Dr. Villarreal arrived in Baton Rouge for his training and consultation. His wife would also train, but I do not recall if that was on his first visit or not. His stats improved. We introduced him to the people at the Baton Rouge Mission. Here I will tell you something that was true time and time again: The amount of consulting a doc would require was inversely proportional to the amount of auditing he received. Those who pursued some auditing, even of only a little as in a Life Repair, faired far better, on far less work from the WISE consultant, than those who did not.
Dr. Villarreal's practice grew. He went to Flag for services. I met him around 1987/88 if I calculate correctly. I left WISE in Feb./Mar 1989. Once I was out and away from Scientology I was surprised to see him in Source magazine as a major contributor to the IAS. Oh, well... Whatever floats your boat.
But this story on Rathbun's site is way over the top. Way over the top. Criminal I'd say. Such is the nature of the scientology ego trap. And this was a guy who started out just wanting to make things better.
According to the 2010 census, Harlingen TX -- where Dr. Villareal is located -- has a population of just under 65,000 persons. That would be men, women, and children.
According to the article on Marty's site, Villareal at one point took in $100,000 PER WEEK.
So ... how do you build a dental (or any other kind of) business in a town with a population of 65,000 that brings in more than $1,000 PER WEEK for EACH AND EVERY MAN WOMAN AND CHILD IN THE TOWN?
Something really does not add up...
According to the article on Marty's site, Villareal at one point took in $100,000 PER WEEK.
So ... how do you build a dental (or any other kind of) business in a town with a population of 65,000 that brings in more than $1,000 PER WEEK for EACH AND EVERY MAN WOMAN AND CHILD IN THE TOWN?
Something really does not add up...
Ted
Gold Meritorious Patron
It doesn't add up, does it?
Multiple locations out and about Texas?
I dunno. :confused2:
lkwdblds
Crusader
Basic truths - Simple truths
I just posted this over on Sharone's thread having to do with Candy's videos. I thought it would also be a real interesting topic to put up on the Apollo thread.
Basic truths - Simple truths
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In my last post to Infinity, I started writing about simple truths and got carried away with it and have decided to make that a separate post.
In closing out with you, Infiniti, I leave you with one last thought. I believe that basic truths are simple in nature and can be stated simply. If something starts becomming overly complex, I become suspect and feel that I or others are "barking up the wrong tree."
I am talking here of basic principles. It is true that often applications must be complex, such as the procedures for open heart surgery. The key is that the basic truths which the applications are built on remain simple. Einstein's equation, E equals M times C squared is very simple and yet conveys many of the secrets of how the universe is put together. Attempting to prove the equation to be true or to put the equation to use can become quite complex but the basic truth itself is simply stated.
The physical sciences have many of their basic laws stated as simple truths while applications are often exceedingly complex. In the humanities and human sciences, the basic principles are for the most part not stated as simple truths. The human being is complex and so the human sciences are complex right from the start. Without simple basic truths being known about human life, it is difficult to develop the humanities as an exact science as has been done with the physical sciences.
Eastern religions, the Vedic religions, have attempted to give us some simple basic truths about life with some success. Hubbard, in Scientology, was going for simple truths about life. A lot of what he did was a repackaging of Eastern religious truths into a format which the Western world could identify with. Hubbard was a very complex man, he told a lot of lies and a lot of people were damaged by his activities and yet his goal to establish basic simple truths about life was a very worthwhile pursuit and some of his writings reflect things about life which are true.
A SIDE ISSUE - HOW EACH OF US DEALS WITH HUBBARD
Each of us is faced with a problem of how to deal with Hubbard and Scientology. For some there is no problem; they reason that Hubbard was a con man and everything he wrote was total crap.
For others of us who either knew the man and encountered the good in him or for those of us who had their life change for the better by applying his tech, a problem does exist and that is how much credit, if any, can we give to Hubbard in light of all the negative aspects of his life.
BROAD SPECTRUM
Candy had a pleasant experience with Hubbard personally and has had a good result in applying the lower part of his bridge. Scientology tech is only a small part of the self help tech which she has mastered but with that small Scientology portion of her overall tech she is still capable of getting a good result.
My experience is that I was really messed up when I found Scientology and I had major case resurgence doing the TR's course, Life Repair, my Grades and yes, even my Dianetics. I feel strongly that Hubbard helped me and I hate to turn my back on him and bash him. Yet, he has done so much that I consider Evil that I just cannot give him a free pass but on the other hand, I just can't close the door on him because he helped me so much in the early years of my Scientology career. It is sort of like a GPM I am caught in, pulled in two directions, to bash and detest Hubbard yet to still thank Hubbard for what he did for me personally.
Each person has their own situation to deal with in this regard. The spectrum is very broad on this issue ranging from a few still total idolizing the man to others who consider him in Hitler's class.
SUMMARY
Life needs its basic laws simply stated similar to the way things are stated in the physical sciences. Life appears extremely complex but underlying this complexity are undoubtedly simple basic truths.
The Vedic religions have stated some of these truths. Hubbard has also stated many of them. Some posters on ESMB, Vinnaire comes to mind, have attempted to state simple basic truths about life and have done so with some success.
What were once major University subjects, Philosophy and Epistimology have unfortunately gone into decline and are no longer fields of study being heavily studied. The Universities would be well served if these type of studies were resuscitated and brought back to life with renewed effort expended to find, list and categorize the basic truths relating to life in a manner similar to what Hubbard did.
THE HUMAN SCIENCES, PHYSICAL SCIENCES AND RELIGIION ALL COMBINING?
In this way, the Human Sciences and the Physical Sciences could march in lockstep together, progressing as they go. Probably, in an ideal type of Educational Structure, The Human Sciences, Physical Sciences and Religion would all unify as one large study with the physical sciences having one department to study it and a combine of the Human Sciences and Religion having itis separate department to study those areas.
Lakey
I just posted this over on Sharone's thread having to do with Candy's videos. I thought it would also be a real interesting topic to put up on the Apollo thread.
Basic truths - Simple truths
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In my last post to Infinity, I started writing about simple truths and got carried away with it and have decided to make that a separate post.
In closing out with you, Infiniti, I leave you with one last thought. I believe that basic truths are simple in nature and can be stated simply. If something starts becomming overly complex, I become suspect and feel that I or others are "barking up the wrong tree."
I am talking here of basic principles. It is true that often applications must be complex, such as the procedures for open heart surgery. The key is that the basic truths which the applications are built on remain simple. Einstein's equation, E equals M times C squared is very simple and yet conveys many of the secrets of how the universe is put together. Attempting to prove the equation to be true or to put the equation to use can become quite complex but the basic truth itself is simply stated.
The physical sciences have many of their basic laws stated as simple truths while applications are often exceedingly complex. In the humanities and human sciences, the basic principles are for the most part not stated as simple truths. The human being is complex and so the human sciences are complex right from the start. Without simple basic truths being known about human life, it is difficult to develop the humanities as an exact science as has been done with the physical sciences.
Eastern religions, the Vedic religions, have attempted to give us some simple basic truths about life with some success. Hubbard, in Scientology, was going for simple truths about life. A lot of what he did was a repackaging of Eastern religious truths into a format which the Western world could identify with. Hubbard was a very complex man, he told a lot of lies and a lot of people were damaged by his activities and yet his goal to establish basic simple truths about life was a very worthwhile pursuit and some of his writings reflect things about life which are true.
A SIDE ISSUE - HOW EACH OF US DEALS WITH HUBBARD
Each of us is faced with a problem of how to deal with Hubbard and Scientology. For some there is no problem; they reason that Hubbard was a con man and everything he wrote was total crap.
For others of us who either knew the man and encountered the good in him or for those of us who had their life change for the better by applying his tech, a problem does exist and that is how much credit, if any, can we give to Hubbard in light of all the negative aspects of his life.
BROAD SPECTRUM
Candy had a pleasant experience with Hubbard personally and has had a good result in applying the lower part of his bridge. Scientology tech is only a small part of the self help tech which she has mastered but with that small Scientology portion of her overall tech she is still capable of getting a good result.
My experience is that I was really messed up when I found Scientology and I had major case resurgence doing the TR's course, Life Repair, my Grades and yes, even my Dianetics. I feel strongly that Hubbard helped me and I hate to turn my back on him and bash him. Yet, he has done so much that I consider Evil that I just cannot give him a free pass but on the other hand, I just can't close the door on him because he helped me so much in the early years of my Scientology career. It is sort of like a GPM I am caught in, pulled in two directions, to bash and detest Hubbard yet to still thank Hubbard for what he did for me personally.
Each person has their own situation to deal with in this regard. The spectrum is very broad on this issue ranging from a few still total idolizing the man to others who consider him in Hitler's class.
SUMMARY
Life needs its basic laws simply stated similar to the way things are stated in the physical sciences. Life appears extremely complex but underlying this complexity are undoubtedly simple basic truths.
The Vedic religions have stated some of these truths. Hubbard has also stated many of them. Some posters on ESMB, Vinnaire comes to mind, have attempted to state simple basic truths about life and have done so with some success.
What were once major University subjects, Philosophy and Epistimology have unfortunately gone into decline and are no longer fields of study being heavily studied. The Universities would be well served if these type of studies were resuscitated and brought back to life with renewed effort expended to find, list and categorize the basic truths relating to life in a manner similar to what Hubbard did.
THE HUMAN SCIENCES, PHYSICAL SCIENCES AND RELIGIION ALL COMBINING?
In this way, the Human Sciences and the Physical Sciences could march in lockstep together, progressing as they go. Probably, in an ideal type of Educational Structure, The Human Sciences, Physical Sciences and Religion would all unify as one large study with the physical sciences having one department to study it and a combine of the Human Sciences and Religion having itis separate department to study those areas.
Lakey
Mark A. Baker
Sponsor
A 'service facsimile' is an old term in scientology for what is essentially a thought or consideration whose purpose is to 'justify' one's own self & actions at the expense of others.
It's actually a very powerful observation about the nature of human behavior. It routinely comes up in session as the basis of a great deal of human irrationality.
That's the 'short form'.
Mark A. Baker
Hatshepsut
Crusader
Hatshepsut
Crusader
Huh?
Gee Thanks!
But you know me__if you don't get back to grok it quick, it could be edited out already by the time you get back :wink2:.
I hope your wife is doing OK.
CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
this is regarding TROM. I don't have enough brain cells at the moment to answer the question. I won't forget it. Perhaps in a week. I'm a bit distracted. Thank you for asking.
CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
For the record:
I hope that you aren't Cheri Wooderson, because I shall be rude.
It's a shame that Smokey Angel and Cheri Wooderson got mentioned in the same order. In terms of quality, they were like day and night.
When I first got involved with the Co$, it was in April of 1968. I was in my senior year of high school. By the time summer arrived, I had gotten ARC Straightwire, a secondary, and an engram run. Cheri and Eddie Wooderson came to work for awhile at the Santa Clara center. It was rumored that Cheri Wooderson had been declared a DB ( Degraded Being - one who sucks more life out of you than contributes to you.) They were both relatively recent grads from the briefing course.
My purpose / ruin, if you will in regard to Scientology, was to help people. It seemed to fit the paradigm that I was looking for, ie. a synthesis of religion, philosophy, and science.
As a PC, I was describing to my auditors what was bothering me. What was bothering me was black mass that I had keyed in by using grass and acid. When I finally got to the solo course in 1971, LRH described to a T what I was describing - GPMs. So I assume they (the Woodersons) were trying to handle my described case. Eddie did a GF 40 Green Form - a list of possible outnesses) on me. He got all black. It screamed out to me, whether it read or not, I couldn't tell you. He found an incident 100,000 years ago and ran me into it. A lot of blow off (unconsciousness) was coming off. After an hour or so of this, he ended session, explaining that he was a very highly trained auditor, and he was wasting his time auditing Dianetics on me. He would find me a student auditor to finish the engram. He didn't. I did in October. I got Geoff Levin to finish it. Keep in mind, at this time, I was earning $25. an hour fixing tractors and farm equipment. Auditing cost $25. an hour. It wasn't that I couldn't afford it.
In the period of June to october with the unflat incident just sitting there, Cheri Wooderson takes me into her auditing room, and asks me if I really know who I am. I answer "yes" unequivocally. he asks again and again and again, until I get it, she wants me to say "no", so I do, and instantly she puts me in Enemy. I do the formula because I know the answer, I've known the answer for years. I still to this day, know the answer. Someone who loves. That isn't acceptable to her. She gets a lot more BS from me, and eventually puts me in doubt, liability, etc. This all gets me spinning. Don't ask me why she ran this head trip on me. It was probably something that had been done to her.It pretty well crashed me. My girl friend and I broke up because I became a head trip.
Had I not gotten involved with Sci, my guess is that we would have married, and had kids, and still be married. Shoulda, woulda, coulda. We have since gotten back together a couple of times. One of us is always married. Go figure.
Since learning to audit, I've seen what morons Cheri and Eddie were. In my life I'VE NEVER TAKEN SOMEONE DOWN THE TRACK AND LEFT THEM THERE. That is a huge gross auditing error.
I've never not taken someone's data, and followed that up by screwing their head up with a false lower condition.
While the piece of paper on Cherie Wooderson may have been a wrongful declare (o to speak), neither she nor her husband could audit their way out of a paper bag. i have no idea how someone in qual could ever let them off the briefing course being as deficient in the basics as they were.
When they left the Santa Clara center, not too long after, they finished up all their students and PCs, and crashed the stats for the next few weeks. They were not remembered fondly by anyone.
I did learn a whole bunch of things from my interactions with them.All things that I never ever will do to another human being.
lkwdblds
Crusader
That's quite a story!
That is quite a story Carmelo! The picture you painted of what happened is not a very pretty one. I am curious as to whether you have ever had this incident cleaned up properly either later on during your career as an active Scio member or if not then, then more recently by one of the many auditors who you have stayed in contact with after leaving C of S?
If so, I would like to hear about that and if not, then there are certainly plenty of auditors available aounrd now who would do it for you.
Lakey
I hope that you aren't Cheri Wooderson, because I shall be rude.
It's a shame that Smokey Angel and Cheri Wooderson got mentioned in the same order. In terms of quality, they were like day and night.
When I first got involved with the Co$, it was in April of 1968. I was in my senior year of high school. By the time summer arrived, I had gotten ARC Straightwire, a secondary, and an engram run. Cheri and Eddie Wooderson came to work for awhile at the Santa Clara center. It was rumored that Cheri Wooderson had been declared a DB ( Degraded Being - one who sucks more life out of you than contributes to you.) They were both relatively recent grads from the briefing course.
My purpose / ruin, if you will in regard to Scientology, was to help people. It seemed to fit the paradigm that I was looking for, ie. a synthesis of religion, philosophy, and science.
As a PC, I was describing to my auditors what was bothering me. What was bothering me was black mass that I had keyed in by using grass and acid. When I finally got to the solo course in 1971, LRH described to a T what I was describing - GPMs. So I assume they (the Woodersons) were trying to handle my described case. Eddie did a GF 40 Green Form - a list of possible outnesses) on me. He got all black. It screamed out to me, whether it read or not, I couldn't tell you. He found an incident 100,000 years ago and ran me into it. A lot of blow off (unconsciousness) was coming off. After an hour or so of this, he ended session, explaining that he was a very highly trained auditor, and he was wasting his time auditing Dianetics on me. He would find me a student auditor to finish the engram. He didn't. I did in October. I got Geoff Levin to finish it. Keep in mind, at this time, I was earning $25. an hour fixing tractors and farm equipment. Auditing cost $25. an hour. It wasn't that I couldn't afford it.
In the period of June to october with the unflat incident just sitting there, Cheri Wooderson takes me into her auditing room, and asks me if I really know who I am. I answer "yes" unequivocally. he asks again and again and again, until I get it, she wants me to say "no", so I do, and instantly she puts me in Enemy. I do the formula because I know the answer, I've known the answer for years. I still to this day, know the answer. Someone who loves. That isn't acceptable to her. She gets a lot more BS from me, and eventually puts me in doubt, liability, etc. This all gets me spinning. Don't ask me why she ran this head trip on me. It was probably something that had been done to her.It pretty well crashed me. My girl friend and I broke up because I became a head trip.
Had I not gotten involved with Sci, my guess is that we would have married, and had kids, and still be married. Shoulda, woulda, coulda. We have since gotten back together a couple of times. One of us is always married. Go figure.
Since learning to audit, I've seen what morons Cheri and Eddie were. In my life I'VE NEVER TAKEN SOMEONE DOWN THE TRACK AND LEFT THEM THERE. That is a huge gross auditing error.
I've never not taken someone's data, and followed that up by screwing their head up with a false lower condition.
While the piece of paper on Cherie Wooderson may have been a wrongful declare (o to speak), neither she nor her husband could audit their way out of a paper bag. i have no idea how someone in qual could ever let them off the briefing course being as deficient in the basics as they were.
When they left the Santa Clara center, not too long after, they finished up all their students and PCs, and crashed the stats for the next few weeks. They were not remembered fondly by anyone.
I did learn a whole bunch of things from my interactions with them.All things that I never ever will do to another human being.
That is quite a story Carmelo! The picture you painted of what happened is not a very pretty one. I am curious as to whether you have ever had this incident cleaned up properly either later on during your career as an active Scio member or if not then, then more recently by one of the many auditors who you have stayed in contact with after leaving C of S?
If so, I would like to hear about that and if not, then there are certainly plenty of auditors available aounrd now who would do it for you.
Lakey
lkwdblds
Crusader
This really irks me!
Seeing this old Hubbard bulletin really irks me. It slams me right back into Personnel Officer Maria Starkey's cabin onboard the Apollo in the last week or so of November, 1973.
I wanted to stay in the S.O. and was suggesting that I be taken off the EPF to be made a Driver for the HCO Division. Someone in HCO who was on the EPF at the time saw my active California Driver's license and told me that I was desperately needed to drive for HCO. He assured me that if I went to Ms Starkey and told her that I had a valid driver's license and was willing to drive that I would be posted immediately as an HCO driver.
Madam Starkey snarled at me with hate in her voice that I was not yet ready to be reposted, I first needed more time on the EPF and then I would have to redo my S.O. basics. I knew my basics were already done properly and told her that I would never redo them.
I then came up with the Optimum solution, a solution which was so totally clean and sane that it was a complete and simple win-win proposition.
I told Madam Starkey that I was fully hatted in Treasury and knew the ropes at CCLA and that sinced I was plucked from that Org to be brought to Flag, CCLA was really hurting in Treasury. Kitty Georgius was good as Treasury Sec but was still very, very green and had no experience and was clamoring for a more experienced assistant in her Treasury division. I knew this from reading the telex files from CCLA when I was CCLA Programs Chief, just a few weeks earlier.
I VOLUNTEERED TO REMAIN IN THE S.O. AND GO BACK TO CCLA AND RESUME MY DUTIES AS DIRECTOR OF DISBURSEMENTS! Stupid Madam Starkey told me that it was off policy for any Sea Org member who served on the Apollo to go back and serve at a lower Org. I politely asked her to see that in writing from LRH which is what policy states that every staff member has a right to do when they sense that something is being told them which is not true. SHE REFUSED TO PRODUCE THE POLICY!! She then told me to get out of her office or I would be routed out of the Sea Org and be off loaded.
This was more of an idle threat to her than a serious proposition but I responded with the words, "I demand you start the routing form and route me out, starting right now." She looked astounded and asked me, "Are you sure that's what you want." I said that it was and she started a routing form out right then and there.
I still can't believe how insane her behavior was. It was up to her to find optimum solutions in the execution of her post but she insisted on acting like a Nazi SS Officer Camp Director instead. Hubbard policy was very firm that a Junior had the right to demand to see the policy he was being told was correct in writing. You know, it is the old adage, "IF IT ISN'T WRITTEN IT ISN'T TRUE". This was Senior Scientology and Sea Org policy and she violated it right there in front of me without batting an eye.
TO THIS DAY, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE WAS EVER SUCH A POLICY THAT A STAFF MEMBER COULD NOT RETURN FROM BEING POSTED AT FLAG AND RESUME HIS DUTIES AT HIS FORMER S.O. ORG. DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THIS WAS OR IS A VALID HUBBARD POLICY?
Had I been shown the policy by Starkey, I probably would have stayed and not demanded to route out. I was still a loyal Hubbardite and still wanted to serve him. In fact, I am positive now that I would have stayed if she had showed me the policy in writing.
The two SENIOR POLICIES as stated by Hubbard were "WE DELIVER WHAT WE PROMISE" and "IF IT ISN'T WRITTEN, IT ISN'T TRUE"
I had been roughed up and made wrong too heavily already on the Apollo, being misposted twice, blamed for abandoning my post when stats were down and being accused by LRH himself of embezzling funds from CCLA Treasury. When the "fuckwad" (one of Candy's words) Madam Starkey broke Senior Policy which had been drilled into me over and over since I had joined staff, I knew the Apollo was a complely fucked up and out ethics bucket of bolts. It was just not a safe space for me to live if Senior Policy was so blatantly ignored by a mid level Officer.
I saw that if I stayed there any longer after all the out ethics things I had already endured and knowingly accepted this break in Senior Policy, I would forever be lost on board the Apollo as some sort of lowly scum bag, forever cleaning the bilges and moping the decks. They would have broken me and taken my life away from me and removed all power of choice from me. I would truly become a DB (degraded being) if I did not put up a fight at that point. So I answered the call to arms and looked M. Starkey in the eye and snarled at her, "Start the fucking routing form out of here and Start it Now. I demanded to be out of there by the end of the week or else I would cause trouble!"
They kept me for two more weeks, filing for the MAA and Medical Officer. While filing, I read all the files before I filed them and saw more and more out ethics situations going on there. Finally, the MAA Stuart Moreau tried to talk me out of going and promised me that he would get me a good post. I really appreciated his communication and offer, it meant a lot to me that I experienced an act of human decency on the Apollo before I left. Had he done this right away, I probably would have stayed but 2 weeks later it was too late, I just wanted out of there.
They were holding me because I had to be comm eved and no staff members were willing to take the time off from their posts to particpate in my comm Ev. I brought matters to a head by illegally taking a day of liberty and walking off the Apollo on "libs" day and going to the American consulate in Madeira and telling them that I lost my passport. The official there told me that I must go back to the Apollo to try and find my passport before he could issue me a new temporary one. Once I came back from the American consulate, I was Red Flagged and considered a high security risk. The comm ev was ordered post haste and occurred 2 days later and I was quickly routed out.
Lakey
For the record:
Seeing this old Hubbard bulletin really irks me. It slams me right back into Personnel Officer Maria Starkey's cabin onboard the Apollo in the last week or so of November, 1973.
I wanted to stay in the S.O. and was suggesting that I be taken off the EPF to be made a Driver for the HCO Division. Someone in HCO who was on the EPF at the time saw my active California Driver's license and told me that I was desperately needed to drive for HCO. He assured me that if I went to Ms Starkey and told her that I had a valid driver's license and was willing to drive that I would be posted immediately as an HCO driver.
Madam Starkey snarled at me with hate in her voice that I was not yet ready to be reposted, I first needed more time on the EPF and then I would have to redo my S.O. basics. I knew my basics were already done properly and told her that I would never redo them.
I then came up with the Optimum solution, a solution which was so totally clean and sane that it was a complete and simple win-win proposition.
I told Madam Starkey that I was fully hatted in Treasury and knew the ropes at CCLA and that sinced I was plucked from that Org to be brought to Flag, CCLA was really hurting in Treasury. Kitty Georgius was good as Treasury Sec but was still very, very green and had no experience and was clamoring for a more experienced assistant in her Treasury division. I knew this from reading the telex files from CCLA when I was CCLA Programs Chief, just a few weeks earlier.
I VOLUNTEERED TO REMAIN IN THE S.O. AND GO BACK TO CCLA AND RESUME MY DUTIES AS DIRECTOR OF DISBURSEMENTS! Stupid Madam Starkey told me that it was off policy for any Sea Org member who served on the Apollo to go back and serve at a lower Org. I politely asked her to see that in writing from LRH which is what policy states that every staff member has a right to do when they sense that something is being told them which is not true. SHE REFUSED TO PRODUCE THE POLICY!! She then told me to get out of her office or I would be routed out of the Sea Org and be off loaded.
This was more of an idle threat to her than a serious proposition but I responded with the words, "I demand you start the routing form and route me out, starting right now." She looked astounded and asked me, "Are you sure that's what you want." I said that it was and she started a routing form out right then and there.
I still can't believe how insane her behavior was. It was up to her to find optimum solutions in the execution of her post but she insisted on acting like a Nazi SS Officer Camp Director instead. Hubbard policy was very firm that a Junior had the right to demand to see the policy he was being told was correct in writing. You know, it is the old adage, "IF IT ISN'T WRITTEN IT ISN'T TRUE". This was Senior Scientology and Sea Org policy and she violated it right there in front of me without batting an eye.
TO THIS DAY, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE WAS EVER SUCH A POLICY THAT A STAFF MEMBER COULD NOT RETURN FROM BEING POSTED AT FLAG AND RESUME HIS DUTIES AT HIS FORMER S.O. ORG. DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THIS WAS OR IS A VALID HUBBARD POLICY?
Had I been shown the policy by Starkey, I probably would have stayed and not demanded to route out. I was still a loyal Hubbardite and still wanted to serve him. In fact, I am positive now that I would have stayed if she had showed me the policy in writing.
The two SENIOR POLICIES as stated by Hubbard were "WE DELIVER WHAT WE PROMISE" and "IF IT ISN'T WRITTEN, IT ISN'T TRUE"
I had been roughed up and made wrong too heavily already on the Apollo, being misposted twice, blamed for abandoning my post when stats were down and being accused by LRH himself of embezzling funds from CCLA Treasury. When the "fuckwad" (one of Candy's words) Madam Starkey broke Senior Policy which had been drilled into me over and over since I had joined staff, I knew the Apollo was a complely fucked up and out ethics bucket of bolts. It was just not a safe space for me to live if Senior Policy was so blatantly ignored by a mid level Officer.
I saw that if I stayed there any longer after all the out ethics things I had already endured and knowingly accepted this break in Senior Policy, I would forever be lost on board the Apollo as some sort of lowly scum bag, forever cleaning the bilges and moping the decks. They would have broken me and taken my life away from me and removed all power of choice from me. I would truly become a DB (degraded being) if I did not put up a fight at that point. So I answered the call to arms and looked M. Starkey in the eye and snarled at her, "Start the fucking routing form out of here and Start it Now. I demanded to be out of there by the end of the week or else I would cause trouble!"
They kept me for two more weeks, filing for the MAA and Medical Officer. While filing, I read all the files before I filed them and saw more and more out ethics situations going on there. Finally, the MAA Stuart Moreau tried to talk me out of going and promised me that he would get me a good post. I really appreciated his communication and offer, it meant a lot to me that I experienced an act of human decency on the Apollo before I left. Had he done this right away, I probably would have stayed but 2 weeks later it was too late, I just wanted out of there.
They were holding me because I had to be comm eved and no staff members were willing to take the time off from their posts to particpate in my comm Ev. I brought matters to a head by illegally taking a day of liberty and walking off the Apollo on "libs" day and going to the American consulate in Madeira and telling them that I lost my passport. The official there told me that I must go back to the Apollo to try and find my passport before he could issue me a new temporary one. Once I came back from the American consulate, I was Red Flagged and considered a high security risk. The comm ev was ordered post haste and occurred 2 days later and I was quickly routed out.
Lakey
Last edited:
lkwdblds
Crusader
Another Post of mine from the Sharone thread.
The Sharone thread featuring Candy's videos is causing me to originate some new posts. This one I just wrote over there is something I want to share here as well so here it is:
BARNUM/HUBBARD AND THE ORIGINS OF OUR UNIVERSE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My above post caused me to think about why beings would enlist to join this Physical Universe which we are in.
I can just see a P.T. Barnum type of figure on a soap box with a podium in front of him saying, "Come One, come all and join up with the Physical Universe."
Some unsuspecting spiritual being communicates to Barnum, "Why?"
Why should I give up my Home Universe and sign up to be in your Universe? Barnum or Hubbard or whatever this being is called says, "We've got oodles and oodles of spirits in our universe who you can share your creations with.
Your current Universe is boring. Come on, you know it is. You are the diety there and you play both sides of all the games. You already know what is going to happen before it happens.
You don't have any opposition!
The being who is being recruited says, "Opposition, what is opposition?" Barnum/Hubbard says. Here is a ticket to our intro lecture, come and find out and while you are there, you will also learn about randomity.
The spirit says, "Oh, randomity, I am pretty good with the concept of numbers and I already started some kind of randomity thing in my own Universe. Barnum/Hubbard says, "Wow kid, not too many spirits have figured out randomity on their own! Well done, we'd really like to have you join our Universe. If you join, we will guarantee you a positioin on our Board of Directors."
The spirit says, "What's a Board of Directors?' Barnum/Hubbard says, "That is a group of spirits who must agree that something is true or else it won't appear in our Universe. In fact, we go further. If you think of something new which should be in our Universe, we will have the other Directors consider it and if they all like it, it will officially be allowed to occur in our Universe."
The spirit says, "Wow, that sounds good, where do I sign up" Barnum/Hubbard says, "Just agree that you are in with us and you are in."
The Spirit says, "WHAT ABOUT GETTING OUT? IF I WANT TO OPT OUT, CAN I DO THAT AS WELL?" Barnum/Hubbard recoils a little and thinks (no way any of these suckers are ever getting out of here once they join up) but he lies and grins and says, "Oh yes, any person in our Universe can get out immediately any time they want to but really why would anyone want to leave this Universe? We have a thing called Music which you are going to love and we have these things called bodies and the bodies have this thing called 'sex' which feels incredibly good. You won't believe how good it feels when you are having sex. Once you experience sex, music, taste etc., I guarantee you that you will never want to leave us. My goodness, I am putting You on the Board of Directors so you have a say on what goes on. Believe me, you will never want to leave but if for some reason you do, you can always leave."
With high expectations, the spirit says, "Okay, its a deal. I am going to make the decision to be in the Physical Universe. Here I go." The spirit decides he is in and enters the time stream of the Physical Universe. Quickly, some lie is introduced to him which he goes into agreement with and from that point forward, he can't opt out unless he makes a perfect duplicate of that lie in its own space and time. As the time stream rolls forward, more and more lies are added. All of the lies lead to a game and most of the games are a lot of fun. Pretty soon, the guy becomes immersed in some of the games going on here and forgets all about his home Universe.
He still retains a concept of getting out but why would he want to do that since he is having so much fun. At first Barnum/Hubbard shows up to ask if everything is as promised and the guy is totally satisfied that he has joined up. AN UNEXPECTED BENEFIT IS THE JOY HE RECEIVES FROM SHARING HIS BEINGNESS WITH OTHER SPIRITS IN THIS PHYSICAL UNIVERSE.
Barnum/Hubbard never even told me about this concept. He was right about music, sex and taste. All of those things are so great its unbelievable but the best thing this universe has is to be able to connect with other spirits and share things with them. Sometimes, I can enlighten and help another spirit and sometimes they enlighten and help me. That is the greatest joy of my existence. I love Barnum/Hubbard. He doesn't come around any more but he sure is a great being.
Fast forward a very, very long period of time later. The spirit now thinks he is his or her body. The spirit has experienced unintentionally harming other spirits and has pulled in its reach and now thinks there is no spirit but only matter, energy, space and time. Barnum/Hubbard and the old Board of Directors has now morphed in a concept called God. God is good but for some reason the universe is full of pain and suffering. The being in his body wonders why there is pain and unhappiness but decides it is God's plan and is beyond his understanding. He is hopeful that when his body dies, something of him or her may remain and unite with God and live forever and that he or she will then understand why it was necessary to suffer and take losses.
When some beings in bodies now see a being such as Barnum/Hubbard, some trust him, recalling their early days of bliss in this Universe while some are suspicious and detest him, remembering mainly the pain and suffering they have been subjected to. Some beings have mixed feelings of a new Barnum/Hubbard. They don't know whether to emphasize their good times in this Universe or their bad times.
And thus there is ESMB created and thus heated discussions about Hubbard occur.
Lakey
The Sharone thread featuring Candy's videos is causing me to originate some new posts. This one I just wrote over there is something I want to share here as well so here it is:
BARNUM/HUBBARD AND THE ORIGINS OF OUR UNIVERSE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My above post caused me to think about why beings would enlist to join this Physical Universe which we are in.
I can just see a P.T. Barnum type of figure on a soap box with a podium in front of him saying, "Come One, come all and join up with the Physical Universe."
Some unsuspecting spiritual being communicates to Barnum, "Why?"
Why should I give up my Home Universe and sign up to be in your Universe? Barnum or Hubbard or whatever this being is called says, "We've got oodles and oodles of spirits in our universe who you can share your creations with.
Your current Universe is boring. Come on, you know it is. You are the diety there and you play both sides of all the games. You already know what is going to happen before it happens.
You don't have any opposition!
The being who is being recruited says, "Opposition, what is opposition?" Barnum/Hubbard says. Here is a ticket to our intro lecture, come and find out and while you are there, you will also learn about randomity.
The spirit says, "Oh, randomity, I am pretty good with the concept of numbers and I already started some kind of randomity thing in my own Universe. Barnum/Hubbard says, "Wow kid, not too many spirits have figured out randomity on their own! Well done, we'd really like to have you join our Universe. If you join, we will guarantee you a positioin on our Board of Directors."
The spirit says, "What's a Board of Directors?' Barnum/Hubbard says, "That is a group of spirits who must agree that something is true or else it won't appear in our Universe. In fact, we go further. If you think of something new which should be in our Universe, we will have the other Directors consider it and if they all like it, it will officially be allowed to occur in our Universe."
The spirit says, "Wow, that sounds good, where do I sign up" Barnum/Hubbard says, "Just agree that you are in with us and you are in."
The Spirit says, "WHAT ABOUT GETTING OUT? IF I WANT TO OPT OUT, CAN I DO THAT AS WELL?" Barnum/Hubbard recoils a little and thinks (no way any of these suckers are ever getting out of here once they join up) but he lies and grins and says, "Oh yes, any person in our Universe can get out immediately any time they want to but really why would anyone want to leave this Universe? We have a thing called Music which you are going to love and we have these things called bodies and the bodies have this thing called 'sex' which feels incredibly good. You won't believe how good it feels when you are having sex. Once you experience sex, music, taste etc., I guarantee you that you will never want to leave us. My goodness, I am putting You on the Board of Directors so you have a say on what goes on. Believe me, you will never want to leave but if for some reason you do, you can always leave."
With high expectations, the spirit says, "Okay, its a deal. I am going to make the decision to be in the Physical Universe. Here I go." The spirit decides he is in and enters the time stream of the Physical Universe. Quickly, some lie is introduced to him which he goes into agreement with and from that point forward, he can't opt out unless he makes a perfect duplicate of that lie in its own space and time. As the time stream rolls forward, more and more lies are added. All of the lies lead to a game and most of the games are a lot of fun. Pretty soon, the guy becomes immersed in some of the games going on here and forgets all about his home Universe.
He still retains a concept of getting out but why would he want to do that since he is having so much fun. At first Barnum/Hubbard shows up to ask if everything is as promised and the guy is totally satisfied that he has joined up. AN UNEXPECTED BENEFIT IS THE JOY HE RECEIVES FROM SHARING HIS BEINGNESS WITH OTHER SPIRITS IN THIS PHYSICAL UNIVERSE.
Barnum/Hubbard never even told me about this concept. He was right about music, sex and taste. All of those things are so great its unbelievable but the best thing this universe has is to be able to connect with other spirits and share things with them. Sometimes, I can enlighten and help another spirit and sometimes they enlighten and help me. That is the greatest joy of my existence. I love Barnum/Hubbard. He doesn't come around any more but he sure is a great being.
Fast forward a very, very long period of time later. The spirit now thinks he is his or her body. The spirit has experienced unintentionally harming other spirits and has pulled in its reach and now thinks there is no spirit but only matter, energy, space and time. Barnum/Hubbard and the old Board of Directors has now morphed in a concept called God. God is good but for some reason the universe is full of pain and suffering. The being in his body wonders why there is pain and unhappiness but decides it is God's plan and is beyond his understanding. He is hopeful that when his body dies, something of him or her may remain and unite with God and live forever and that he or she will then understand why it was necessary to suffer and take losses.
When some beings in bodies now see a being such as Barnum/Hubbard, some trust him, recalling their early days of bliss in this Universe while some are suspicious and detest him, remembering mainly the pain and suffering they have been subjected to. Some beings have mixed feelings of a new Barnum/Hubbard. They don't know whether to emphasize their good times in this Universe or their bad times.
And thus there is ESMB created and thus heated discussions about Hubbard occur.
Lakey
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