The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[FoTi]

Toady,

Ever seen a koala try to run? . . . even a tortoise, or turtle, would run over it like a jetliner landing on a scarecrow . . . don't run they waddle; but good at climbing . . . if they can get to a tree

Don't worry Lakey, I'm not ignoring you . . . just that your missives will take more time than I've got today and possibly tomorrow for an honest and helpful reply.

Though, off the top of my head, I notice a major (let's use a tech term here) "outpoint" in your reply (this among a number).

Lakey in post #11992



My dear, you started this thread in February, 2009! The FZ conference was . . . count the months. now . . . end of October, 2009. And I can assure you the conference was promoted and gazetted here on your thread. I well remember Carmelo, and others talking of it here . . . . and indeed, on its own announcement thread a shit-storm from the anti-brigade developed . . . . so I find it hard to go along with what you say in what I cite above.

You see, the folks who each did their little bit, and particularly Aida, posted here on this thread as the thing was developed. I well remember CarmelO sounding off about a "mystery guest" . . . . so the setting up of the gig was all explained and developed HERE on this thread as one of its major venues of promotion and exchange of info.

And so it goes . . . . .

You honestly need to address that "selective memory scenario" you exhibit here . . . hopefully helpful advice from a friend :wink2:

Rog

Roger thank you for being specific here. I think it makes it much easier for the person being called on the carpet, if the caller uses specific examples, so that the person being called can see what is being referred to and maybe get a better idea of why he/she is being pinned against the wall.

Sometimes as people get older, their memory as well as their senses begin to diminish and it isn't until something happens in life, that points out that this is going on, that the person is even aware of it. And...it can be very confusing.

I once had a roommate ...she was OT V...and she was about 70 years old. We lived together for several years and everything was fine. She then developed a problem with incontinence and began to smell like a street person. I hated having to bring this up to her, but I had to talk to her about being more careful with her personal hygiene. She got really mad at me and denied that she smelled bad. She had been telling me for a couple of years that as she got older, she lost her body smells. What had really happened is that her sense of smell had diminished to the point where she couldn't perceive that she had an offensive odor. She never did get it ..... and she continued to think that I was just being mean to her or that I was out to get her. She moved out. She told me the MAA told her she should move away from me and get her own space, which she did.

I have seen this sort of thing happen with several friends of mine over the years as they got older. I notice it happening with me now. In studying, I will go to use some piece of data or take a test and come up with the wrong answers and have to go back over the material again to see what I did wrong.....it always seems that I misperceived the data....read it wrong....or left something out. It's always followed by a cog about how my mind and my perceptions aren't working as good as they used to. It's kind of a gauge as to what is really going on with me and my mind, which I rely on for survival. It's kind of scary. It has been scary to me when I saw this happening with other people, as well. I would think....someday this might happen to me too and now it is. Some people are willing to look at this in themselves....some aren't.

Many people get forgetful as they get older.

It can be rather confusing :confused2: and frightening when one realizes that they are losing their brilliance.

It can be rather frustrating to those around them.

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Some people, me included, have trouble keeping up with the plot when somebody keeps going back in history and claiming the story was never what people are claiming it was - and all the while I'm holding the old script in my hand and seeing the " not A " now claimed is really was stated as " A " in the script.

No wonder people end up on the lurk line and no longer wanting to participate in an ever changing story.

 

[Auditor's Toad]

FoTi, you make excellent points.

Most of us have to face that as these old bodies get older they ain't what they used to be.....and, unfortunately, the brain IS part of the body.

 

[RogerB]

Roger thank you for being specific here. I think it makes it much easier for the person being called on the carpet, if the caller uses specific examples, so that the person being called can see what is being referred to and maybe get a better idea of why he/she is being pinned against the wall.

Sometimes as people get older, their memory as well as their senses begin to diminish and it isn't until something happens in life, that points out that this is going on, that the person is even aware of it. And...it can be very confusing.

I once had a roommate ...she was OT V...and she was about 70 years old. We lived together for several years and everything was fine. She then developed a problem with incontinence and began to smell like a street person. I hated having to bring this up to her, but I had to talk to her about being more careful with her personal hygiene. She got really mad at me and denied that she smelled bad. She had been telling me for a couple of years that as she got older, she lost her body smells. What had really happened is that her sense of smell had diminished to the point where she couldn't perceive that she had an offensive odor. She never did get it ..... and she continued to think that I was just being mean to her or that I was out to get her. She moved out. She told me the MAA told her she should move away from me and get her own space, which she did.

I have seen this sort of thing happen with several friends of mine over the years as they got older. I notice it happening with me now. In studying, I will go to use some piece of data or take a test and come up with the wrong answers and have to go back over the material again to see what I did wrong.....it always seems that I misperceived the data....read it wrong....or left something out. It's always followed by a cog about how my mind isn't working as good as it used to. It's kind of a gauge as to what is really going on with me and my mind, which I rely on for survival. It's kind of scary. It has been scary to me when I saw this happening with other people, as well. I would think....someday this might happen to me too and now it is. Some people are willing to look at this in themselves....some aren't.

It can be rather confusing :confused2: and frightening when one realizes that they are losing their brilliance.

It can be rather frustrating to those around them.

FoTi, my Sweet,

Work on your spiritual abilities and powers . . . they are where it's at.

That's the real key to you and your operation. The body and brain, while we all got used to relying on them and such, and too a degree got trapped in being affected by them . . . . one can rise above that.

We see this in brain injury folks . . . as they focus on and use their true native talent, it all begins to come together for them again.

I personally experienced what I speak of here in that drowning incident I wrote of on ESMB, and since then I've focused on developing those key faculties.

You, the real you, can rise above the bodily decline stuff. And, of course, if you're smart, you can look after your body so it continues to do its job . . . but I'll tell you for free, there are some that you can give correct medical advice to with regards to the medically induced decline they are experiencing (and complaining of), and they will tell you in instant rebuttal without inspection that they and the doctor who is screwing them up "know best."

Sooo, one simply has to leave them be.

Oh, and PS: I am personally not "calling anyone on the carpet" . . . hopefully my advice and exactness is of benefit, though I see from Lakey's comments that he hasn't accepted my advices as such yet. He may well in due course.

If he were not a valued friend I wouldn't be bothering to post to him as I have. And in case anyone wonders why I do so openly . . . it's because Lakey is not the only one affected by the traffic here.

Hopefully, all the good souls here love and forgive, do not hold the past against any other, and allow them to improve into present time That is the right way to handle relationships when corrections are realized.

Rog

 

[FoTi]

Some people, me included, have trouble keeping up with the plot when somebody keeps going back in history and claiming the story was never what people are claiming it was - and all the while I'm holding the old script in my hand and seeing the " not A " now claimed is really was stated as " A " in the script.

No wonder people end up on the lurk line and no longer wanting to participate in an ever changing story.

It's confusing to me too sometimes.

I recently had kind of an interesting eye opener about memory. .....how fallible it is.

I decided to do some solo prepchecking (no meter) on communication. In doing this I got kind of curious about what ever happened to my first husband and I also wanted to clear up some things with him. There were things that I never told him about that left him in mystery in, as to why I left him. I felt I owed him an explanation. I ended our marriage 47 years ago and the last time I saw him and talked to him, briefly, was 32 years ago.

I found him a few months back on Facebook and out of curiosity requested communication with him. I was sort of ambivalent as to whether I really wanted to talk to him....I was just curious about his life and what had happened to him since we last spoke 32 years ago. He never responded.

After doing the prepchecking on communication a few weeks ago, I found him on Skype, called him, but he wouldn't answer. Then he called me back, the next day, and left me a message telling me to email him....and we have been emailing back and forth comparing memories. I cleared up the confusions with him and in doing so I found it was really amazing how different our memories are about things that happened between us.

I have memories of things happening that he has no memory of. He has memories of things happening that he thinks I did that I can't even conceive that I would have done, and have no memory of. I began to wonder if I was the same person he was talking about. It was so bizarre how different our memories were when we were supposedly both in the same place at the same time. It made me wonder.....what of the past is real and what is imaginary? And what about auditing? What about all these memories that people dig up and run through and then think now they know what really happened?

The mind is really strange. I know LRH talked about dub-in, but .... There seems to be a lot more of it than I ever imagined there could ever be. Then I thought about people testifying against someone in a court of law.....how trustworthy is witness testimony? And if memory could be so far off in just one lifetime...mine and his.....how the heck are people going to come up with valid memories for past lives....hundreds.....thousands.....millions......billions......trillions of years back? It's mind boggling and confusing to me.

But....at least I got to tell my ex the truth of what was going on with me so that he could know the truth, understand what happened better and I could take the guesswork out of his memory. I also got some of my questions answered. We did get to know each other a little better than we did when we were married. We never talked about things back then.....I know I couldn't and I don't think he could either,......but now we have.

Prepchecks are helping me to untangle some things.

Thanks to those who brought up the subject of prepchecks for discussion here and put up the lists on this thread a while back.

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Prepchecks are good.

 

[FoTi]

FoTi, my Sweet,

Work on your spiritual abilities and powers . . . they are where it's at.

I'm tryin'.

That's the real key to you and your operation. The body and brain, while we all got used to relying on them and such, and too a degree got trapped in being affected by them . . . . one can rise above that.

Sometimes I'm okay, but sometimes it seems like I'm swimming in pea soup.

We see this in brain injury folks . . . as they focus on and use their true native talent, it all begins to come together for them again.

I personally experienced what I speak of here in that drowning incident I wrote of on ESMB, and since then I've focused on developing those key faculties.

You, the real you, can rise above the bodily decline stuff. And, of course, if you're smart, you can look after your body so it continues to do its job . . . but I'll tell you for free, there are some that you can give correct medical advice to with regards to the medically induced decline they are experiencing (and complaining of), and they will tell you in instant rebuttal without inspection that they and the doctor who is screwing them up "know best."

I don't go to doctors, except for an occasional visit to the chiropractor. I do the best I can to try to keep my body healthy. I don't have the confidence in my body that I used to in terms of being able to do physical stuff that I could easily do when I was young, but the main thing that bothers me is this memory stuff.

I also find that most people, where I live, do not want to get better because they will loose their Soc Sec, Medicaid and Food Stamps. Being a massage therapist, I sometimes offer friends help for free. They don't want it. The System has people wanting to be sick so that they can get govt. support. They are afraid to get better. They prefer to keep their aches and pains and physical problems because that is their ticket to continuing the financial support they think they need. Or sometimes they are suing someone for damages and they don't want to get well because they will lose the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow that they are pursuing.

Sooo, one simply has to leave them be.

I do leave them be.

Oh, and PS: I am personally not "calling anyone on the carpet" . . . hopefully my advice and exactness is of benefit, though I see from Lakey's comments that he hasn't accepted my advices as such yet.

What I was referring to as regards "calling anyone on the carpet" is that there have been a number of posts of, what seemed to me to be, people lashing out at Lakey and he said himself that people were bashing him for posting. I was just thanking you for being clear, specific, in your post, so that it could be easily understood. It's easier to sort things out with facts rather than generalities. It also helps the readers to see what's going on instead of just a generalized "food fight".

He may well in due course.

Maybe when the confusion gets sorted out. MUs in life can be a bitch to deal with sometimes.


If he were not a valued friend I wouldn't be bothering to post to him as I have. And in case anyone wonders why I do so openly . . . it's because Lakey is not the only one affected by the traffic here.

This is much appreciated. It helps to clear up the confusion for the rest of us too. Thank you for doing this.

Hopefully, all the good souls here love and forgive, do not hold the past against any other, and allow them to improve into present time That is the right way to handle relationships when corrections are realized.

Yes.

Rog

Thank you for being who and what you are.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Roger thank you for being specific here. I think it makes it much easier for the person being called on the carpet, if the caller uses specific examples, so that the person being called can see what is being referred to and maybe get a better idea of why he/she is being pinned against the wall. ...

This is very true, FoTi. The problem in this particular discussion is that it has gone on far too long precisely because of Lakey's inability & unwillingness to process the specific criticisms which have already been made concerning his posts. As such there seems little reason to hope for his conversion anytime soon.

Rather than reading, understanding, and addressing the points raised on the thread by others, Lakey frequently makes some new collection of assumptions which gives him an updated context in which he may be 'right' and thus further perplex and aggravate other posters. A bit of clear thinking and attention to detail on his part would save a great deal of aggravation all around. Unfortunately, he's shown little inclination to make such an effort preferring instead to chatter away like a maddened magpie.

As Toady has pointed out, it's enough to drive an abstemious ascetic to a life of libidinous alcoholic abandon.


Mark A. Baker

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

As I have said before, in detail, on this thread, I have permanent brain damage. Now, I know it may not appear to be that big of a problem because I can write fairly well.

The clinically tested difference between my right brain and left brain function is more than two standard deviations below the norm. My tested IQ (not Scns fluff test) is over thirty points lower than it was 10 years ago—all because of partial to near total loss of key right brain functions. Over the last 3 years or so my left brain function has steadily and quite miraculously increased while, at the same time, my right brain function is unchanged.

I used to be highly competitive…I’m not anymore; I used to be ultra Type A…I’m not anymore; I used to be intensely focused…I’m not anymore; I used to be a “quick study” and able to learn new things well and rapidly…I can’t anymore. There are a number of subjects, skills and talents I had mastery of that I cannot, and will never again, remember how or be able to do and are now impossible for me to relearn.

In some ways my memory is better now than ever before in my life; in other ways my memory is so poor as to be that of an Idiot. It’s very frustrating sometimes but I am fortunate enough to be comfortably retired so I am able to live a life that best suits my situation. Reading and writing for me is slow and arduous yet fascinating and rewarding. For all these reasons I try to be very precise in my writing, and selective about what I read, as I only have so many reading and writing “Coins” to spend each day and some day’s the coin purse is near empty from the get go.

There are many, many things that I read on ESMB that I would love to comment on that I just don’t have the coins for. There are threads that I would like to participate in but, again, I just don’t have the coins for that. Every week I read posts that I could, I assure you, “Mop the Floor” with the Poster if that was “Fun” or of interest as a “Challenge” for me, and I wished to waste my coins doing so. My symbolic reasoning and expression of abstracts ability is in the tank but my capacity to “See”, “Grasp” and “Understand”—to my satisfaction and peace of mind—“Form” and “Actuality” is far greater now than ever before in my life. As my long term memory continues to “come back on line” the content is being re-viewed from a different “Frame of Reference” than I had at the time of the initial experience; everything is being re-framed with left brain dominance. I still don’t know exactly how all this works and there are not many folks that have ever experienced what has happened and is happening to me.

So, I have “pick my spots” as judiciously as possible and even that is something that I am still learning how to do. What I like about this tread is the folks that are here and, for the most part, the stuff that goes on and especially the quality, variety and validity of what gets said. I wish that I could comment more but I just don’t have coins to spend. The “Shooting Stars” installments take on average probably 16 to 20 hours for me to prepare and, even then, I find errors, typos and omitted words that I just didn’t see the 5 or 6 times I proofread the post before I put it up. I’ve known exactly and precisely what I wanted to convey in that series from the very first sentence—it just takes me time and effort to find the write words, the right phrase the right structure that, to the best of my ability, “Says” what I am try to “Convey”. You see, I don’t think or reason in pictures, symbols, words or narrative thoughts. I know this sounds weird but my mind, as it is today, is pretty much “Symphonies” and “Songs” of “Feelings”, “Instincts”, non-physical “Perceptions” and—this is the weirdest one—“Silent”, “Still” and detailed “Complex” thinking with simple thoughts, and that damn poor description is the best I can do at this time.

ESMB is part of my path and Y’all are as lights, signposts, channels and guides on my pathway. I have no interest in being a “Persona”, “Grandstanding”, “Position” or “Identity”, or to play “Gotcha”, and I’m for damn sure aint the smartest person in this here room. ESMB is a myriad of things to a large group of people—just like all Living is. I suppose for some it is a “Contest”, a “Stage”, a “Schoolyard”, a “Playground”, an “Intellectual Masturbatory Gymnasium” or an “Ant Hill” to throw firecrackers in. But, I think that’s the minority. I think most folks are here for pretty much the same reasons I’m here; to learn, to heal, to share, to help, to hear the “Voice” of others saying what they want to say, what they need to say, and to find their own “Voice” and say what they want to say, what they need to say and, in so doing, be helped.

Peace.

Face

 

[FoTi]

This is very true, FoTi. The problem in this particular discussion is that it has gone on far too long precisely because of Lakey's inability & unwillingness to process the specific criticisms which have already been made concerning his posts. As such there seems little reason to hope for his conversion anytime soon.

Rather than reading, understanding, and addressing the points raised on the thread by others, Lakey frequently makes some new collection of assumptions which gives him an updated context in which he may be 'right' and thus further perplex and aggravate other posters. A bit of clear thinking and attention to detail on his part would save a great deal of aggravation all around. Unfortunately, he's shown little inclination to make such an effort preferring instead to chatter away like a maddened magpie.

As Toady has pointed out, it's enough to drive an abstemious ascetic to a life of libidinous alcoholic abandon.


Mark A. Baker

Have one on me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Joy7JwME9bg&feature=fvwrel


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ASMcxVdlvk&feature=related

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Face... yet another jaw droppingly good post !

Thanks !

 

[FoTi]

ESMB is part of my path and Y’all are as lights, signposts, channels and guides on my pathway. I have no interest in being a “Persona”, “Grandstanding”, “Position” or “Identity”, or to play “Gotcha”, and I’m for damn sure aint the smartest person in this here room. ESMB is a myriad of things to a large group of people—just like all Living is. I suppose for some it is a “Contest”, a “Stage”, a “Schoolyard”, a “Playground”, an “Intellectual Masturbatory Gymnasium” or an “Ant Hill” to throw firecrackers in. But, I think that’s the minority. I think most folks are here for pretty much the same reason I’m here; to learn, to heal, to share, to help, to hear the “Voice” of others saying what they want to say, what they need to say, and to find their own “Voice” and say what they want to say, what they need to say and, in so doing, be helped.

Peace.

Face

Glad you're here, Face, to do the best you can with what you got. It's much appreciated.

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Face... yet another jaw droppingly good post !

Thanks !

Thanks Toady.

You, and all Y'all, say so many wonderful things that would never occur to me in ways I would never think to say them.

Wow...now a Toad's jaw is a whole lotta jaw to see drop.

Face

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Glad you're here, Face, to do the best you can with what you got. It's much appreciated.

Thanks FoTi.

Youz one of the true Sweethearts of this here Rodeo.

Face

 

[FoTi]

Thanks FoTi.

Youz one of the true Sweethearts of this here Rodeo.

Face

Thanks, Face. I don't ride much. I mostly sit on the fence and watch the more experienced riders handle the broncs. I like to cheer them on, though, when I think they give a good performance.

 

[Terril park]

ESMB is part of my path and Y’all are as lights, signposts, channels and guides on my pathway. I have no interest in being a “Persona”, “Grandstanding”, “Position” or “Identity”, or to play “Gotcha”, and I’m for damn sure aint the smartest person in this here room. ESMB is a myriad of things to a large group of people—just like all Living is. I suppose for some it is a “Contest”, a “Stage”, a “Schoolyard”, a “Playground”, an “Intellectual Masturbatory Gymnasium” or an “Ant Hill” to throw firecrackers in. But, I think that’s the minority. I think most folks are here for pretty much the same reasons I’m here; to learn, to heal, to share, to help, to hear the “Voice” of others saying what they want to say, what they need to say, and to find their own “Voice” and say what they want to say, what they need to say and, in so doing, be helped.

Peace.

Face

You are one of the brightest lights here.

 

[Ted]

As I have said before, in detail, on this thread, I have permanent brain damage. Now, I know it may not appear to be that big of a problem because I can write fairly well.

[...]


Peace.

Face

Gee wizz , Facey. Ninety percent of your words above could be my words. Maybe I better get checked for brain damage. :wink2:

Truthfully, I think it's just part of the process of aging. Like who gives a "F..." about being the baddest, smartest, boldest, fastest, most clever Type A personality in the room. Not me! I have become so good at granting beingness that I can make way for all the strutting peacocks in the room.

Yeah, I think a lot of your stated condition just comes with age. IQ test? Wow. I can't imagine putting out the effort.

Good to have you here. I enjoy your postings. Good to have you as a friend. All that youthful stuff we used to cherish and posture over is just bullshit, but it was necessary to get us this far along.

 

[RogerB]

Ahh, Face,

You are so good at expressing what is so true for so many good folks, you just strike chord after chord after chord.

What you express in your posts are just so rewarding to read. And it helps folks.

You know, reading your description of what you perceive as to the working of your "mind" reminded me of what it was like when I was "out of my body" in the drowning incident, and I was operating and communicating without reference to the body or brain . . . . that is, it was me exercising my pure spirituality

And it was from that moment on that I began to pay particular attention to those abilities/faculties; to seek to understand them, enhance them and to put the "mechanics" of their use to more knowing use and application.

If that makes sense to anyone, I hope it helps. :wink2:

Rog

 

[dianaclass8]

Diana, thank you for your kind and informative reply! Your reply does cause me to change my post and make a retraction but before I do so, I want to cover a little history of how we got to this point...

Originally I made the point that Roger is more moderate than Toady and his associates in dealing with those of us who still find parts of Hubbard’s tech useful and do not consider Hubbard himself totally evil. I know this to be true for me. I have had extensive written dialogues with both gentleman and know that Roger is much more civil than Toady and all of his associates save for “Gottabrain”. THIS IS JUST MY PERSONAL OPINION, NO MORE AND NO LESS. I realize that while this is true for me, it may not be true for others.

To help make my point that Roger was more moderate than Toady, I cited the fact that Roger spoke at the 2009 Freezone convention. Toady and his associates do not take kindly to the Freezone and its members. They object to newly leaving Scientologists and brand new public being introduced to Scientology tech out in the Freezone. Here again, I know this to be true after debating these people for 5 solid weeks on Sharone’s thread “What Candy Swanson says about LRH”

I did not NEED to use the example of the 2009 Freezone convention to make my point but I chose to do it just to drive my point home. It turned out that doing this did not work out for me personally in some ways, making me more enemies but on the other hand, in order to correct me, a lot of “new' (for me) information and history was revealed about the Freezone and it's 2009 convention.

I made the following statement to drive home my point:”An association gains promotional value if they retain a well known speaker as their keynote speaker. This is guaranteed IF the head of the Association has carte blanch when it comes to editing the keynote speaker’s videos.”

I ASSERT THAT THIS STATEMENT IS STILL TRUE! I do not have to retract it, the last clause of the statement gives me an out, i.e. “if the head of the Association has carte blanche when it comes to editing……..”

Diana, you now have pointed out that you did not have carte blanche when it came to editing, instead, all the editing was done by the owner of the videos...

My statement or assertion above is true but it does not apply to the 2009 Freezone Convention because, even though you were the head of the Freezone Convention, you DID NOT have carte blanche when it came to editing the videos. Therefore, I am doing a retraction in admitting that my assertion does not apply in your case.

I want to say more about the other things which you told me and will do that in my follow up post.

Thank you so much for clearing up this matter for us.
Gary

Thanks for your response. Sorry it took so long...right now, I am in England on a road trip all over the country having lotsa fun...

Two things: one, take a break from ESMB for a while and enjoy life out there...
Two, at least the critics at ESMB did not go into youtube and made negative comments about Candy there too, which is a plus in my opinion.

One more, critics will be critics...some are pretty smart and bring a lot of true, others have so much hatred for Scn that anything that has to do with it, that they feel that has to be attacked no matter what...and it is understable.

If I were you or Candy I would not worry so much...I have my own share of a gang of critics out there, starting with Terril Parks and ending with others as insane as him or worse...LOL! And there's nothing you can do about some people; except stand tall and come to ESMB to vent your frustrations every once in a while and to remind them that you still kicking ass....

Diana

 

[RogerB]

Thanks for your response. Sorry it took so long...right now, I am in England on a road trip all over the country having lotsa fun...

Two things: one, take a break from ESMB for a while and enjoy life out there...
Two, at least the critics at ESMB did not go into youtube and made negative comments about Candy there too, which is a plus in my opinion.

One more, critics will be critics...some are pretty smart and bring a lot of true, others have so much hatred for Scn that anything that has to do with it, that they feel that has to be attacked no matter what...and it is understable.

If I were you or Candy I would not worry so much...I have my own share of a gang of critics out there, starting with Terril Parks and ending with others as insane as him or worse...LOL! And there's nothing you can do about some people; except stand tall and come to ESMB to vent your frustrations every once in a while and to remind them that you still kicking ass....

Diana

Oh? So from your comments re Terril it seems you won't be doing tea and symphony with him?

Though Paul should be a good giggle. I'd call in on him while you're in over there on that side of the pond.

R