The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[Mark A. Baker]

Re: Physical Universe

Yes, this is pretty good.

In discussing this subject one needs distinguish between three "things":

1) the source of "life"
2) Life
3) Life forms.


The source of life, at its essence, is a static with infinite potentials . . .

When the static expresses any of its potential(s) or goes into motion there is then "life."

In the physical and some earlier universes the expressions of "life" have been formed into constructs we currently view as "life forms."



R

Well drawn out distinctions.

My own preference is to avoid using the term 'life' for any but the third item. I find it less ambiguous and not as likely to produce confusion when I use separate terminology when referencing the physical aspects of things, especially as that is the predilection of the physical & biological sciences.

Similarly, I regard matters relating to the transcendental qualities of consciousness & spirit, being innately subjective, are best emphasized as being logically distinct from the physical aspects of the universe through the use terminology traditionally associated with such non-physical qualities, e.g. spirit, soul, clear light of consciousness, prabhasvara, etc.. Should a meaningful 'physical theory consciousness' ever develop (and frankly I'm not betting on it) then I'll consider the need for a reconciliation of terms between the two categories, the physical & the transcendental.

However, the relationships just as you characterize them are also as I understand them to be.


Mark A. Baker

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: Physical Universe

PU refers to the physical universe.



There is no actual physical theory of consciousness and much subjective evidence to suggest that consciousness is not bounded by the physical universe. Therefore it is a mistake to assume that the consciousnesses of living beings is necessarily present within the PU.

I agree with your first sentecnce above but I don't assume what you suggest in your second sentence. You used just 2 letters, PU, without stating what you meant. To respond to your post, which I found very interesting, I had to make some assumption as to what you meant by the letters PU. That isn't necessarily what I refer to when discussing the physical universe but was just my guess of what you were refering to. It turned out that my guess was incorrect.

Life as a biological construct observes the laws of the physical universe. Consciousness is a completely different matter. Your assumption is that life, as it is manifested in the physical universe and as it is accordingly bound by its physical principles, possesses consciousness. Arguably instead consciousness may well possess life and be equally capable of being experienced wholly separate from the life processes of the physical universe and any biological organism. My own personal subjective experiences support this latter interpretation.

Here again, I do not make the assumption that life as it is manifested in the physical universe and as it is accordingly bound by its physical principles, possesses consciousness.

Wherever the truth may lie, the actual means of interaction between consciousness and manifest physical existence remains unknown and highly speculative. The fewer assumptions made concerning the precise character of the relationship between physical life and the subjective phenomenon of consciousness the better for logical thought.

The laws of physics have been demonstrated to determine the behavior of all phenomena within the physical universe, biological processes included. The same is not true with regard to the character of consciousness. Ergo, lumping the fact of consciousness in with the processes of biological life is an unwarranted assumption and is not apparently supported by all of its observed properties.

I don't fully agree with the above paragraph. Certainly all phenomena within the physical universe, especially biological processes, have not been fully determined by physics. Physics, like the other sciences is a growing and evolving subject.

The suggestion which you made in your initial post starting this discussion applies to the science of physics, just as it applies to individuals. The more that becomes known the more people see that there is yet more to know.

MAB, I don't hold those two assumptions which you assigned to me. Where this all started was you stating that the PU is a zero sum game. I had never heard this stated before and thought it was an interesting point. I could not figure out at first what you meant by PU, after a while, I figured out that it meant physical universe.

I commented on it, including life, (consciousness as you refer to it), either inside the PU or viewing it from a viewpoint which is not within the physical universe. I made the distinction very clear.

The way I see it, if life is not either in the PU or viewing the PU from outside of it, the term, "a zero sum game" is essentially meaningness.

I do not believe there can be a "game" without some sort of presence of life. There has to be a goal set by life to have a game and then there has to be opposition to overcome.

A ZERO SUM GAME WITHOUT ANY LIFE PRESENT? Probably a game could be rigged up without life being present during the playing of the game. That game could be called "TOTAL RANDOMITY" In this case, randomity could serve as the opposition and the goal could be to see what happens if randomity is left to its own devices without a goal being formally set.

Even so, life would likely be required to set the game in motion. It could be a zero sum game or non zero sum game either by random chance or at life's discretion. If life created the game and set it into motion, life could leave the PU for a long period of time and then come back to view what has transpired. If the game just originated by random chance, life would have no contact with it and whether it was a zero sum game or not would be completely meaningless.

That was my point, that calling the PU a zero sum game, really had no meaning unless that game was viewed from within or without by life consciousness. If we still don't agree, there is no point discussing it further.
Lakey

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Re: John McMaster

... Defining the PU as only the Physical Universe of matter, energy, space and time, I would agree with what you are saying. ...

PU is a common acronym for the physical universe, especially in discussions conducted on this board and more generally with those as experience as scientologists. In the phrase generally the emphasis is on the significance of the physical qualities of the universe, hence its use as opposed to 'universe', 'spiritual universe', 'magic universe', 'totality of universes', etc..

If the meaning of the acronym seemed unclear then a question as to what was meant by the termed being used would have been more appropriate than a lengthy response predicated on faulty assumptions about that meaning.


Mark A. Baker

 

[FoTi]

Re: Physical Universe

The PU is structured around physical laws which set limits to phenomena. In particular Newton's 3rd law, the energy conservation principle, and the principle of closure preclude a non-zero sum.

Whether something qualifies as a 'win' is a strictly non-physical subjective consideration. Such personal considerations are not innately subject to physical laws.

In any phenomenal event, for example the chemical combination of two hydrogen atoms with an oxygen atom into a molecule of water, the sum total of physical energy involved remains fixed. If the 'goal' is an attempt to burn hydrogen as fuel, then it might be considered to be a 'win'. If the goal is to reduce a water molecule into its constituent atoms, then it constitutes a 'loss'. Nevertheless, the total energy involved in the reaction remains fixed, i.e. 'zero sum'.

The establishment or interpretation of goals is a result of subjective considerations which are a byproduct of consciousness. As such they are a transcendental function independent of the function of the PU. Such subjective considerations are not to be confused with the actual mechanical functioning of the PU. The latter remains a 'zero-sum' net.

The PU does what it does. The value assigned to it through consideration by any individual is not relevant to its actual function.


Mark A. Baker

I've heard something somewhere about the PU expanding (besides what LRH said about it). I also heard the other day on the radio about some scientists or astronomers that recently discovered something that was expanding but they didn't know how.....sorry I can't remember it all. But...I was wondering how can a universe expand if there are set limits to phenomena?

 

[FoTi]

Re: Lectures and a radio interview by John McMaster

FYI:
The talks, that I posted above, for you Standard Tech troglodytes, can be reverse engineered from MP3 to CD to cassette to reel to reel for a true 20th Century Sound Experience.

If you need me to do it, I've got an old Ampex reel to reel that I can record over some old Miles Davis tape, and mail to you for authentic 20th Century feel good experience. Please mail me a check or money order (no PayPal accepted), and I shall, by return snail mail, send you the Real True Sound of John McMaster at the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles in 1970.

[video=youtube;NOHF5fAUkN4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOHF5fAUkN4[/video]

the video below starts off with some MAJOR BS, but the photos and narratives are worth wading through, if you (as I was), were around the Ambassador way back when.

[video=youtube;v5jPhsvONao]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5jPhsvONao[/video]

Ah, yes....The Ambassador Hotel and the Coconut Grove. Thanks for these videos....brought back some nice memories.

I went to the Coconut Grove after my high school prom in '59......Johnny Mathis was on stage....very romantic. Those days were so romantic. People and life was so different back then.

I also was in a beauty contest at the Ambassador Hotel....around the pool....back in the 60's. (I didn't win, but it was kind of fun).

I was at the Ambassador for some other meetings and such later on. I loved that place. I'm sorry to see that it has been torn down. What a shame that it's gone.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Re: Physical Universe

I've heard something somewhere about the PU expanding (besides what LRH said about it). I also heard the other day on the radio about some scientists or astronomers that recently discovered something that was expanding but they didn't know how.....sorry I can't remember it all. But...I was wondering how can a universe expand if there are set limits to phenomena?

That's a rather tricky question of non-euclidean geometry as it applies to physics as it is known.

The 'tricky' answer is: that which is expanding is space-time itself, everything within space-time is being carried along as if riding on a wave.

The simple answer is: it all depends on one's perspective and from where one is looking at the 'expansion'.

What you see depends on how you look. From a position inside the universe it appears to be expanding. If a viewer could watch from 'outside' of the physical universe (a meaningless statement from the perspective of physics, not meaningless from a perspective of metaphysics), he wouldn't necessarily see it as expanding.


Mark A. Baker

 

[FoTi]

Re: Physical Universe

That's a rather tricky question of non-euclidean geometry as it applies to physics as it is known.

The 'tricky' answer is: that which is expanding is space-time itself, everything within space-time is being carried along as if riding on a wave.

The simple answer is: it all depends on one's perspective and from where one is looking at the 'expansion'.

What you see depends on how you look. From a position inside the universe it appears to be expanding. If a viewer could watch from 'outside' of the physical universe (a meaningless statement from the perspective of physics, not meaningless from a perspective of metaphysics), he wouldn't necessarily see it as expanding.


Mark A. Baker

Why would it appear to be expanding from the inside but not from the outside?

If the PU is fixed, then how does one explain a physical object suddenly appearing out of nowhere that wasn't there a second ago? (I've had this happen twice in my life...and yes they were real.....they were coins and I used them to do the laundry. Prior to these appearing I had no money to put in the machines.)

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Re: Physical Universe

Why would it appear to be expanding from the inside but not from the outside? ...

Simply, the laws of physics and the geometry of the physical universe ONLY APPLY WITHIN the universe.

From a position outside of the universe they would not be seen to apply generally. A physicist or materialist would claim that the idea of viewing the PU from outside is utterly meaningless, with some slight exception. The exceptions would be alternate physical universes which might exist (and in some cases have been theorized) which are similarly limited by physically restrictive conditions but nonetheless have different physical laws from those experienced in this physical universe.

The mathematics of such discussions is not easily followed.

Neither need all universes be physical in manifestation. Those who take a transcendental view of things see no particular difficulty with the concept of viewing the physical universe from an external perspective, HOWEVER, such perspectives do not necessarily conform to the physical or geometric properties known to be possessed by the physical universe.

As an analogy: the internal properties of the physical universe are apples, whereas the properties of the physical universe as they may be perceived from outside are oranges.

Inherently they are NOT and can not be the same thing despite similar language being used to describe them. Internal laws of the universe restrict its operation. Those laws need not apply outside. Accordingly misconceptions often arises from the attempt to interpret dissimilar things as if they were similar.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Terril park]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I was thinking along the same lines last week as I was going over all my prejudices. I skimmed to see if I 'really' felt that way. Most of the time I DID. Just like false purposes, I realized I had picked up and adopted some opinions that weren't mine. And the funny thing is that while I was contemplating, this datum___ "The WHY is God" came into my head. I realized.....and this was luscious__ that my reasons for doing certain things was totally obsolete. There was no truth behind the whys that drove me anymore. Its kind of like continuing to drive a small car after the price of gas has come way down. This kind of situation with me was most easily detected by sorting out my incongruent goals while starting to create a sort of Admin Scale. I needed old incomplete cycles to no longer hinder my forward movement. These were things where my 'decisions' had caused an energy to fire into fomenting something in the future. Because I had decided one thing, another future decision was based on it, and another one on the vision after. Then kaboom....some of it I found didn't align with my own passions at all. Those slightly false 'why's' were driving me in curly cues. Always look over the people you have admired and scan what traits you may have borrowed....and which ideas.

When getting ready to cull and dump some of my 'stuff' in the wastebasket, I noticed some of these things weren't even my own ambitions or did not further my basic values and goals at all.

Go for whaqt you want.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: Physical Universe

Why would it appear to be expanding from the inside but not from the outside?

If the PU is fixed, then how does one explain a physical object suddenly appearing out of nowhere that wasn't there a second ago? (I've had this happen twice in my life...and yes they were real.....they were coins and I used them to do the laundry. Prior to these appearing I had no money to put in the machines.)

For your first question, I own a book which gives an example of an expanding universe model which may be helpful to you. The book states, "It is important to understand that this expansion does not mean that the solar system, or that galaxies are expanding. The expansion seems to involve only the space between the galaxies.

Imagine a huge lump of dough in which hundreds of raisins are embedded in a random way. Each raisin represents a cluster of galaxies. If the dough is baked so it expands uniformly in all directions, the raisins themselves remain the same size. It is the space between the raisins that grows larger. No one raisin can be called the center of this expansion. From the viewpoint of any individual raisin, all the other raisins seem to be moving away from it. The more distant the raisin, the faster it seems to recede.

This is just a model which helps one to see how from any galaxy within this Universe, all other galaxies seem to be moving away from it. This doesn't fully answer the question you ask but is similar enough to give an idea of how different conclusions regarding an expansion can be sensed while observing from different viewpoints within a Universe. Viewing from outside the universe is not covered here because the authors are of the school of physics which defines this Universe encompassing all space which exists.

On your second question about the coins appearing, one can only speculate. Either you have magician skills from an earlier life that you were able to use or you have "OT abilities" which happened to turn on due to your high necessity level.

All the true EX SCIENTOLOGISTS who believe that all of the "Tech" is crap claim that Scientology has not produced even one OT, in fact nothing even close to that. Perhaps you are the first person with a real OT ability to come forward. Producing coins out of thin air so that you could do your laundry. That is really OT!
Lakey

 

[Hatshepsut]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I thoroughly enjoyed these clips about the Ambassador Hotel. I had always loved the Hollywood glitz of the early years. I remember the scene from Aviator with Leo DiCaprio and Kate Blanchett at a Coconut Grove remocked.

Grove

I never realized how tall and big outdoor LA queen palms could grow....much grander than our Fla wild palms.

I think there was a Coconut Grove in Miami and New York and Boston also that prospered in slightly different time periods. Of course there have been endless nightclub/steakhouse strips given that moniker too.

 

[Hatshepsut]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I'm glad I'm not the only one having trouble with owner's manuals. Two days ago I set up a new printer with a fax and an accessory for double sided print jobs. The fast set up guide which came in the box was lame. Thank god for PDF. You just type in User's manuals and you get 100 pages as big as you please with pics. Same for missing software that I had to dig up on the internet to install my Quick Cam mp for Skype. I had to down load a new HP manual for my desktop. I downloaded the lost iPod manual and the manual for my Sylvania vcr and the instruction booklet for setting up my universal fancy remote for 10 things at one time. I never know where the instruction guides are. Nobody does. But it is terrible that sometimes your boxed info pamphlet that came with your purchase only gives you a few short paragraphs any more....albeit in 6 different languages. There must be a lot of consumers in Brazil. Sometimes you even get Suisse. I DO remember a time where if you could read and follow instructions you were all set unless they left out a screw or washer. Nowadays, the guides are totally unsatisfactory. This is particulary true of HP printers where there are 1000 varieties and they want ONE manual to give watered down blanket coverage of 50 different printers. I got an instruction pamphlet inside the box where you look at the picture of your product in the manual and its a completely different model with different or non-existent firewire ports etc.

Yesterday I purchased a strip that goes around the door as a weather seal. The nights have turned cool and the giant wolf spiders come around in October leaving their nests in the wooden eves. Any crack in the door will bring them as they know the smell of food attracts small insects they might munch on near trash. I could not figure out how to place it or make it stick or in what direction the grooves fit the door frame grooves. I gave up and went back to Walmart to get the spongy easy self-sticking one with NO grooves to fit in any other grooves. And the cable guy___don't get me started, they never want to explain how to use all the extra composite and accessory ports that come with their DVR box. And I was down at Best Buy once and needed to make a copy of a tape and put it on a disc and convert and they would not tell me how to do it because of copyright laws. Bullshit. Those instructions come with the sound recorder built into your desktop even. Roxio Easy Creator 10 will help you pirate just about anything for the $29.00 software.

Of course there's always the YouTube channels by the geeks who like to show you that a fifteen year old can rocket engineer his own satellite dish out of a garbage can lid or jailbreak his iTouch so he can make international calls for free when its not even designed to be used as a phone at all......duh!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrQggKrwXIc&feature=player_detailpage

 

[Mark A. Baker]

John McMaster - Every Man His Own Messiah

I just finished the fifth of the McMaster recordings. I've got to say that I'm really enjoying listening to these. It feels like I've known John forever. Thanks CO for posting.

I'm going to post one excerpt from this recording. One I both liked and considered especially appropriate to the ESMB board.

... Look at, just look at them. You say you buy it. You say 'oh, that's a workable datum', fine it's a workable datum but for heaven's sakewhen it is no longer a workable datum drop it and drop it fast. It was a guiding stone to that first step. And ... you can't continue to try to make something work when it no longer works for you. You are betraying yourself. You are betraying you, your human right, and you are betraying everyone around you. Because now you are forcing it into something, you are trying to make it work when it no longer works.

Now Shri Aurobindo, The Mother, who runs his ashram in Pondicherry now, made a statement which I think is a marvelous one. And the statement is that: "... the most difficult thing you can ever do is to leave that which has helped you to get to where you have got.' Because you will have people telling you you are a traitor. You will have all of those things happening. Now ...

If you took christianity and you can use it that far. And you knew that you have got from that doctrine all that you could get. If you sit there and don't move on, you are making it wrong and making it wrong for others. And so you spin yourself back into it. Now it's exactly the same with any -ology. You can take it, it's not being disloyal to say '... look I used it. Look how far I got! And now I can fly, and I'm going to fly, and I'm going to find new things and new names.'

And if any man thinks that he has the right to tell you not to do this then he is a bit crazy. And he has some other motive than setting people free.


~21:40 - 23:54 John McMaster, Every Man His Own Messiah

And for those with an interest, near the end of this particular recording McMaster comments on the policy hubbard wrote denying the existence of 'jesus christ'.


Mark A. Baker

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Re: John McMaster - Every Man His Own Messiah

I just finished the fifth of the McMaster recordings. I've got to say that I'm really enjoying listening to these. It feels like I've known John forever. Thanks CO for posting.

I'm going to post one excerpt from this recording. One I both liked and considered especially appropriate to the ESMB board.




And for those with an interest, near the end of this particular recording McMaster comments on the policy hubbard wrote denying the existence of 'jesus christ'.


Mark A. Baker

You say you finished a fifth?

That's pretty good. I'd be slurring my words.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrQggKrwXIc&feature=player_detailpage

I downloaded Fring. Looks great.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Re: John McMaster - Every Man His Own Messiah

You say you finished a fifth?

That's pretty good. I'd be slurring my words.

You weren't a merchant seaman.


Mark A. Baker

 

[FoTi]

Re: Physical Universe

For your first question, I own a book which gives an example of an expanding universe model which may be helpful to you. The book states, "It is important to understand that this expansion does not mean that the solar system, or that galaxies are expanding. The expansion seems to involve only the space between the galaxies.

Imagine a huge lump of dough in which hundreds of raisins are embedded in a random way. Each raisin represents a cluster of galaxies. If the dough is baked so it expands uniformly in all directions, the raisins themselves remain the same size. It is the space between the raisins that grows larger. No one raisin can be called the center of this expansion. From the viewpoint of any individual raisin, all the other raisins seem to be moving away from it. The more distant the raisin, the faster it seems to recede.

This is just a model which helps one to see how from any galaxy within this Universe, all other galaxies seem to be moving away from it. This doesn't fully answer the question you ask but is similar enough to give an idea of how different conclusions regarding an expansion can be sensed while observing from different viewpoints within a Universe. Viewing from outside the universe is not covered here because the authors are of the school of physics which defines this Universe encompassing all space which exists.

On your second question about the coins appearing, one can only speculate. Either you have magician skills from an earlier life that you were able to use or you have "OT abilities" which happened to turn on due to your high necessity level.

All the true EX SCIENTOLOGISTS who believe that all of the "Tech" is crap claim that Scientology has not produced even one OT, in fact nothing even close to that. Perhaps you are the first person with a real OT ability to come forward. Producing coins out of thin air so that you could do your laundry. That is really OT!
Lakey

I understand the bread theory, with expanding space, but that isn't really what I was talking about. What I meant was the idea that there was actually more universe stuff being created.

The coin thing was really interesting. My coin purse was empty. I was on the third floor, in my apartment. I looked out the window at the gas station next door and just had the thought that I didn't want to have to go there to get change for the laundry. When I picked up my coin purse suddenly the money for the next load was in it. It was a surprise. I wondered if maybe I was mistaken and maybe I just didn't see the coins in there before. I went downstairs and used the coins in the machine and my coin purse was again empty. I went back upstairs and about an hour later I had to go back downstairs and do another load. I was still wondering if this had really happened. Then I wondered if maybe it might happen again. So, my coin purse was laying in the same place it was when this happened before and I stood in the same spot as before and looked out the window at the gas station next door and had the same thought.....that I didn't want to have to go there to get change. I reached out and picked up the coin purse and sure enough....there was the change to finish my laundry. I got so excited that I ran down the hall and knocked on the Reg's door....(he lived several doors down the hall from me). I told him what had just happened and I thought he would be happy about this because he always was collecting money....but no He got really pissed at me and yelled at me and told me I was out ethics. I suddenly felt horrible....like I'd committed some mortal sin. I caved in and went away with my tail between my legs like a dog that had been scolded. I felt really bad. It never happened again. I couldn't understand....if the point of Scientology was to become more OT, why was something like this so wrong? It baffled me and I didn't talk about it for a long time. I was afraid to say anything about it to anybody.

I also had another thing happen a couple of years prior to this, not involving money, but instead the control of a physical universe object....a car....and again it was a thought that I didn't want people to go off and leave me...I wanted them to wait for me. Their car quit running right in the middle of the street and they couldn't get it started until I came along and got in the car and told them they could now start the car and it started right up. It was like the car was waiting for me. I thought it was funny. This happened after I'd had a couple hundred hours of auditing at ASHO. Again it made the people I was with mad and I got slammed with shit flows which made me feel wrong and introverted. I learned it was just not okay to do these kind of things and especially don't tell anyone about it when it happens.

I don't really know how these things actually happened....they just did....they seemed to be just a postulate manifasting....a wish of mine. It was magical and fun for me, but really seemed to upset and rattle others. I would like to live magical like that all the time....it was so light and easy...but the cave in afterward was awful.

I don't think these things would have happened had I not had the auditing that I had, and not been around people where I thought this kind of thing would be acceptable, since I thought this was the goal of Scientology. I soon learned that even though this was the purported goal of Scientology.....this kind of thing was not socially acceptable unless one had a Scientology cert saying that one had completed the OT Levels....then it would be okay and it would serve as proof to others that Scientology worked and others would look up to that. It seemed that one was not allowed to have abilities in Scientology unless they had paid the money and done the level that was supposed to give them those abilities....kind of like you had to pay the money and do the services to get the license from Scientology in the form of a cert so that you could use your abilities without being reprimanded.

Harry Rickard had OT abilities and demonstrated it to many people. I used to call him when my neck was out and he would ajust my neck from across town and I would send him a check for $10. Saved me from having to drive to an appointment. I could feel all the stuff shifting around in my neck when he did it. People used to call him for help with their animals that were sick and he would do stuff with them clear across country. He was a chiropractor by trade, but did a lot of his work without laying a hand on a person. Did you know him?

There's probably a lot of people out there that won't come forward with their abilities or experiences because they don't want to be put down or made fun of, so they just keep quiet about it. Nobody likes to be belittled.

 

[RogerB]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

FoTi wrote:

Harry Rickard had OT abilities and demonstrated it to many people. I used to call him when my neck was out and he would ajust my neck from across town and I would send him a check for $10. Saved me from having to drive to an appointment. I could feel all the stuff shifting around in my neck when he did it. People used to call him for help with their animals that were sick and he would do stuff with them clear across country. He was a chiropractor by trade, but did a lot of his work without laying a hand on a person. Did you know him?

There's probably a lot of people out there that won't come forward with their abilities or experiences because they don't want to be put down or made fun of, so they just keep quiet about it. Nobody likes to be belittled.

Yes, all true.

Harry is not the only one I've met who could influence from afar. (He has now long since passed. He died some time around '96-'97) And I also know a lady who truly does communicate at a spiritual level with animals. I was agog at watching her do so after I'd given her a session running Responsibility on "Relationships."

The lady could also heal animals by her touch and spiritual communing with them.

One of the difficulties those who "turn on" "OT" capabilities is that the turn on is too frequently transitionary.

There are reasons why this occurs and the reason is based in the phenomena that the Being, in going gradiently free and ascending up, frees up an ability as part of the ascending only to move up into the next higher level of impediments on their case.

And it is at this ascended to higher level that the old solutions and barriers to abilities and powers move in and occlude or impede the ability one had earlier experienced as "available."

The answer to all this is to simply continue processing and to continue recovering, at higher levels of recovery, one's true natural capacities till, eventually, one has truly, fully recovered them and freed them from the occlusion of them we experience as "humanoids."

I do know several who have been successful at recovering their true abilities and powers stably a very much higher levels than where they began from.

Rog

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Wow...thanks a whole bunch, Carmelo, for putting up the Johnny Mac links...what a find and great service to this community!

I havn't started listening to them yet but I’m looking forward to doing so soon. Seeing and hearing John was a huge influence on my proceeding with Scn. I do so hope he is fairing weller than well where his path has taken him.

Face

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

the 1970s

I was freely associating with the rain coming today in SoCal, and the Sci establishments around Mac Arthur's Park in the 1970s, and the dreams we had at that time. Jimmy Webb's song says it all.


[video=youtube;su3JdzUUuH4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su3JdzUUuH4[/video]