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The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

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Re: Last Week

Last week, I was going to be in LA to finish a construction project. I didn't make it.

My son, who lives in Nor Cal and works across the continent, in NYC's house got burgled. And while I was killing a hornets' nest so that the septic tank could be pumped, I got stung stang and abused by the little critters even in the dark.

When the venom or whatever it is called fell into my bloodstream, I ended up sleeping 36 hours straight. In Pain. Unconscious. I can't even tell you if it was clear or raining outside for that period. I'm recovering. Should be in LA on Tuesday.

In the meantime I missed Dave and Aida's party of international exes. Can someone post pics and stories?

If there is a next time that you have to deal with those nasty stinging critters, get food grade diatomaceous earth from Seven Springs farm 800-540-9181. 50 lb bag for around $25.00. Online....look for an applicator or check the post I made to Hat for her bugs....I think I put a link to an applicator source there. I used to use it in Florida when wasps made their nest around my doorway. They never came after me when I sprayed their nests with diatomaceous earth or puffed it directly on them and they were shortly gone from the area. Then I would knock the nests down after a few days. If you puff it in their direction, they get confused with the dust and won't come after you because they can't see where it's coming from. If you cover their nest with it, whenever they come and go, they get it on them and won't last long, so you can get rid of a lot of them that way. Then also shoot/spray in that Solution I mentioned online that comes from Clearwater herbs. If you can get that in the nest, they will all suffocate. Makes the job a lot less dangerous. If the hornets get in a wall and make a nest where you can't get to them...which happened to me one time at my house in Florida....I called a professional bee keeper.....he came and had a way to get his stuff inside the wall that destroyed the nest so none would come back and rebuild. If you don't totally destroy their nest and make it uninhabitable in the future, they will repopulate it.

Might be a good idea to keep some protective netting/clothing around too in case you have to tackle them again.

I'm glad you recovered so quickly. They can kill, so take care in the future.

Keep the diatomaceous earth and the Solution away from your bees, though. Don't want to lose them.
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I attended the party hosted by Diana Class 8 at her house yesterday afternoon (Saturday). It can be called an International party for Scientologists. In attendance were Freezone members, Indies, and Ron's Org members. I would say that everyone there believed that there was some merit in Hubbard's tech. No person who is critical of all of Hubbard's tech attended this event.

Of the people who attended, there is a variation in how much of the tech they think is workable but the slant is toward the high end. Most people there were strong supporters of LRH tech, at least the processing side of his bridge.

All people have experienced insane handling in how the organizations are run and have left the official C of S because of that reason.

Check out the International mix of peoples in attendance. Of about 100 people who attended, here was the breakdown:

From Russia (with love): A full contingent of about 40 Russians from the Ron's Org. These people were about half from Moscow and half from Vladivostock. In case you are not aware of it, Vladivostock is about 5,000 miles from Moscow, on the Pacific Coast of Russia, very near to Korea, China and Japan. The Ron's Org group is being guided at this time by Max Hauri and his wife from Switzerland. They were both there and Max gave a long speech detailing how Ron's Org was formed. This Ron's Org contingent is not affiliated in any way with the large Russian field group up in Cupertino, run by Svetka which Purple Haze, Carmelo and I visited earlier this year.

The Russians are all going to the Freezone Convention in Vegas Dec. 2nd thru 4th. I hope they make contract with Svetka and her group. Both those groups are pretty large and quite strong.

Spanish Speaking contingent - Of course, Diana Class 8 is part of this group as were the musicians who entertained us with volals accompanied by guitar. I sat next to a lovely Mexican American couple who got into Scn in Mexico in the late 70's and are now American citizens, living in San Diego. There were several others from Mexico, Central America and someone from Chile.

German Speaking Contingent There was a fairly large group of of German speakers including Max Hauri and his wife from Switzerland, Helmut from the Chen Academy and various and sundry people from Germany and Switzerland, probably 10 or so German speakers.

Non California Residents A group of 6 or 7 came in from Arizona.

Locals Candy Swanson was present as was our former poster here, Blue Spirit and his wife. Mcgoo was present as were Ian W., Mark A. Baker, and about 20 other locals.
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Thanks for replying Roger! Your first comment about this life being different due to our experience with Scientology is very true to me as well. I know that I learned more in this life than any other life here on Earth. I have to give Hubbard the credit for that. Despite all the negatives and faults we discuss relating to Hubbard, for some of us he provided the tools to change the direction in which we were headed. I am one such person. I was going nowhere before encountering Hubbard. There was nothing in society which could have salvaged me other than Scientology.

All that I really needed to clean up my act as a human being was given on the first 2 course, HAS (The Communications Course) and HQS, a course which taught the rudimentary principles of Scn. After doing those courses, I still had my "case" or collection of aberrations but I got enough from those two course to be able to succeed at a job, find a girlfriend, get married, start a family and be successful as a human being.

The biggest gains were learning and drilling the communications formula, learning about as-ising things by duplicating and making a perfect copy, and how to do Touch Assists.

BTW, I well remember reading the story you wrote about your out of body experience described when you were writing about Ascensions. It was a magnificent story and was very inspiring!

What you and Ted both say about the part one's dreams, aspirations and goals play in what recall one will experience when he/she returns is very helpful.

My attention is on two skills which I would like to hang onto. One has to do with composing music. I was pretty good at it in the 18th century and have no ability to speak of now. I would like to recapture that skill. Also, there is the matter of relationships with women. In this life, I was born knowing nothing and eventually picked up some knowledge on the subject. The knowledge I learned was paid for dearly, often learning either by being rejected or faliling to be bold, promote myself and act agressively. I want to carry forward the knowledge I learned without having to reset back at square one.

I wish you and all of us who are getting on in years, a very lengthy and healthy remainder of lfe. It seems to me that more has been discovered in recent decades about the steps one needs to take to insure a long and healthy life then in past eras.

You and I are within 3 years in age and I remember that when I was growing up in the 50's and 60's, the age of 60 was considered old and 65 was very old. By 70, most people were bent over and walking with a cane. Society's sciences have moved everything down by 15 to 20 years. Some people at 60 are still in their "middle aged" period and have fully active and vital bodies. As they say, 60 is now the new 50.
Lakey

Not a truer word said Lakey.

I'm 64 and still dance latin and ballroom several times a week and compete.

Lately my sis has been dragging me along to her Zumba classes in the village.

I take a brisk 4 mile walk every day.

Okay, okay, there's always the wrinkles but that's why our eyesight deteriorates as we get older. Nature is kind.
 
Re: Another Paradox

FoTi: Sorry, if the problem has you in a tizzy. This is advanced puzzle math. It's not for everyone. Like many things mathematical, a minority of people, such as me, do this stuff just for pleasure, challenge, and mental exercise. Once in a while some new subtle insights may be gained by a person. It takes a lot of time to really get involved in this type of stuff. I do not recommend it for everybody. For at least 99% of the population, spending time on this type of puzzle is a big WASTE OF TIME.

I am retired right now, live alone, and my family is grown, I've got spare time on my hands for the first time since being a small kid. I want to thank you because your persistent questioning challenged me to explain the problem in more and more detail. As a result, I believe that I have full and total 100% conceptual understanding of this problem.

Its not an intelligence thing. Getting involved in a problem such as this and spending hours on it is not a very intelligent thing to do in the first place! There is aptitude involved. Regardless of one's intelligence some people have the aptitude to kick these type of problems around and have fun doing so. Look at all the puzzle books on the magazine racks in the stores. Most productive people avoid spending serkious amounts of time on puzzles believing it is a waste of time. For the most part, they are right.

AT LAST A FURTHER ANALYSIS OF THE LAWYER'S ERROR AND A FINAL SOLUTION!!
The lawyer puts himself in time at a future 12:01 pm Thursday without the hanging taking place. The lawyer sees that if that scenario occurs, the hanging can't take place the next day without the prisoner knowing it in advance which violates the judge's decree.

The lawyer now applies a reverse mathematical induction process to predict a future scenario. He takes information which would be gained after a forthcoming 12:01 pm Thursday and applies that information to deduce outcomes for days in the future which will occur before the forthcoming Thursday.

Mathematical induction is designed to take present time outcome and extend it further out from that point. The lawyer is attempting to forecast a future event by using a reverse mathematical inductive process.

ILLEGAL FORM OF MENTAL TIME TRAVEL? - THE PARADOX SOLVED?
The lawyer looks to the future to see what conditions might exist on some future Thursday at 12:01 pm. Now if he extended those conditions further into the future, his logic would be correct. However, he attempts to extend those conditions backwards to days still in the future but which will occur before that future Thursday. This is faulty logic and a real no-no. Any answers obtained by doing this must be paradoxical.

Lakey

Well....to chew this thing a little further.....:dieslaughing:

Is the point of this to find the holes in the logic?

Or...what part of this is a paradox?

When I do puzzles....I usually know what it is I'm trying to solve....with this one I don't know if I'm looking for the needle or the haystack or the thread....and are any of those even on the same farm.....:duh:

Or is this just a bad joke?

Why is no one else responding to this mess? :questions:

I think this has warped my brain... :overanalyser: :mindblow:

Or I'm drowning in MU phenomena...:drowning:

You tell me there is no answer and then you tell me there is an answer. Is that not a contradiction in itself?

Nonsensical nonsense. :confused2:
 
I don't think God could explain this any clearer than I have done!!!

Well....to chew this thing a little further.....:dieslaughing:

Is the point of this to find the holes in the logic?

Yes, find holes in two things. First why the judge's sentence sometimes can't be carried out as stated and second, why the lawyer's deduction that the sentence can never be carried out is in error even though the lawyer's logic appears to be correct.

Or...what part of this is a paradox?

For the umpteenth time, the paradox is that, for the general case, the judge's decree can't be carried out as stated!

When I do puzzles....I usually know what it is I'm trying to solve....with this one I don't know if I'm looking for the needle or the haystack or the thread....and are any of those even on the same farm.....:duh:

For the umpteenth time, you have to solve:

#1. Why the judge's decree or sentence can't be carried out in the general case.

#2. Why the lawyer's deductions which seem to be built on impeccable logic lead to the false deduction that the judge's decree cannot occur on any of the days.


Or is this just a bad joke?

No!

Why is no one else responding to this mess? :questions:

You'll have to ask them individually, I guess. My guess is that most people think it is a WASTE OF TIME, they don't have the time to waste and want to make more valuable use of their time. You know what? They are right!

I think this has warped my brain... :overanalyser: :mindblow:

Or I'm drowning in MU phenomena...:drowning:

You tell me there is no answer and then you tell me there is an answer. Is that not a contradiction in itself?

For the umpteenth time, I told you that I started out accepting that there was no correct solution and during the course of explaining things to you I CHANGED MY MIND when I discovered what I think is the ultimate correct solution!

Nonsensical nonsense. :confused2:


FoTi - I am going to give you one this one last response and then close the book on this topic. I don't know why you cannot pick up those simple points I put in red above. You must be going by some misunderstood words. If you want to tackle the subject further call me on Skype and I'll try and coach you through it.

Personally, I don't think it is that important to put in any more effort. Its only a puzzle, it doesn't make sense to you and yet there is a whole Mathematical literature with books and analysis of the subject both in print and on the internet. Google "The Unexpect Hanging" and tons of info comes up. None of it is explaiined anywhere near as painstakingly as I have attempted to explain it to you.

I would like to leave it at that but if you really want to go further, you will have to contact me directly. I am not going to post any more about this topic
Lakey
 
Last edited:
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Not a truer word said Lakey.

I'm 64 and still dance latin and ballroom several times a week and compete.

Lately my sis has been dragging me along to her Zumba classes in the village.

I take a brisk 4 mile walk every day.

Okay, okay, there's always the wrinkles but that's why our eyesight deteriorates as we get older. Nature is kind.

Thanks for the nice reply Smart One. The Avatar you used 2 years ago portrayed a very fit women, wasn't it the tennis player Hanna Mandlikova, all 6' 3" of her but then you mentioned you mentioned you were nearly 6' yourself.

Seriously, well done for all the great physical activity you engage in at age 64. That is fantastic, enjoying all those wonderful activities and dancing. Well done, carry on and all that tommy rot! BTW, how are things holding up during this recession in Jolly Olde England? Are you getting by okay in that department as well?
Lakey
 
Re: I don't think God could explain this any clearer than I have done!!!

FoTi - I am going to give you one this one last response and then close the book on this topic. I don't know why you cannot pick up those simple points I put in red above. You must be going by some misunderstood words. If you want to tackle the subject further call me on Skype and I'll try and coach you through it.

Personally, I don't think it is that important to put in any more effort. Its only a puzzle, it doesn't make sense to you and yet there is a whole Mathematical literature with books and analysis of the subject both in print and on the internet. Google "The Unexpect Hanging" and tons of info comes up. None of it is explaiined anywhere near as painstakingly as I have attempted to explain it to you.

I would like to leave it at that but if you really want to go further, you will have to contact me directly. I am not going to post any more about this topic
Lakey

Okay....I Googled it and looked it up on Wikipedia. I read it.....now I understand what this is. Next time, if you bring this up and someone wants to know what the heck this is about....I suggest that....rather than just leaving them in the dark....it might be kinder if you just refer them to "The Unexpected Hanging" on Wikipedia, and avoid trying to explain it to them yourself, so they can see what this is about, read the discussions and viewpoints on this, get the bigger picture and avoid a lot of confusion.

There's a number of paradoxes in this thing and also the meaning of some of the words could change the context of what is said and that is unclear and the logic of the prisoner is not logical....so there's all sort of contradictions and paradoxes and unclear predictions. I didn't see any lawyer in it, nor did I see any statement that if he wasn't surprised that he would be let go free.

So.... now that I got my questions answered and my confusions sorted out re this paradox puzzle..on Wikipedia....I will end off on "The Unexpected Hanging".

I've had some turkey, yams and pumpkin custard for dinner, I will now have some coffee and watch a movie. Thanksgiving is such a tasty holiday and I'm very thankful for all the good food I have, a comfortable place to live and a warm bed to sleep in. Everyone should have at least that much and I know some don't. I wish better times to all.

I think I have enough food in my fridge and freezer now to last me until Christmas. That is a nice cozy feeling.
 
Re: I don't think God could explain this any clearer than I have done!!!

Okay....I Googled it and looked it up on Wikipedia. I read it.....now I understand what this is. Next time, if you bring this up and someone wants to know what the heck this is about....I suggest that....rather than just leaving them in the dark....it might be kinder if you just refer them to "The Unexpected Hanging" on Wikipedia, and avoid trying to explain it to them yourself, so they can see what this is about, read the discussions and viewpoints on this, get the bigger picture and avoid a lot of confusion.

There's a number of paradoxes in this thing and also the meaning of some of the words could change the context of what is said and that is unclear and the logic of the prisoner is not logical....so there's all sort of contradictions and paradoxes and unclear predictions. I didn't see any lawyer in it, nor did I see any statement that if he wasn't surprised that he would be let go free.

So.... now that I got my questions answered and my confusions sorted out re this paradox puzzle..on Wikipedia....I will end off on "The Unexpected Hanging".

I've had some turkey, yams and pumpkin custard for dinner, I will now have some coffee and watch a movie. Thanksgiving is such a tasty holiday and I'm very thankful for all the good food I have, a comfortable place to live and a warm bed to sleep in. Everyone should have at least that much and I know some don't. I wish better times to all.

I think I have enough food in my fridge and freezer now to last me until Christmas. That is a nice cozy feeling.

Devil's Advocate and weren't actually reading much of my posts.

FoTi, I am glad you got your questions answered on Wikepedia. I have one question for you. Were you just playing Devil's Advocate with me and toying with me? That's the feeling I'm feeling. If you were doing that it is okay because only through attempting to make the problem understanable for you was I able to solve the problem to my satisfaction. It was worth it for me to put in all the time and I think you for all your questions.

TYING THIS PROBLEM INTO THE FRAMEWORK OF THIS THREAD!
Maybe Hubbard became so knowledgible in his field, at least in the early days, because he spent so much time writing up his ideas. He assumed that society had certain knowledge, such as how to do accounting or run a business or to communicate to others. In each area he had to undercut and explain with more clarity. Perhaps by doing so, he increased his own knowledge

Trying to explain things very clearly to others is a good way to learn increase your own knowledge.
Lakey
 
Re: I don't think God could explain this any clearer than I have done!!!

Devil's Advocate and weren't actually reading much of my posts.

FoTi, I am glad you got your questions answered on Wikepedia. I have one question for you. Were you just playing Devil's Advocate with me and toying with me? That's the feeling I'm feeling. If you were doing that it is okay because only through attempting to make the problem understanable for you was I able to solve the problem to my satisfaction. It was worth it for me to put in all the time and I think you for all your questions.

TYING THIS PROBLEM INTO THE FRAMEWORK OF THIS THREAD!
Maybe Hubbard became so knowledgible in his field, at least in the early days, because he spent so much time writing up his ideas. He assumed that society had certain knowledge, such as how to do accounting or run a business or to communicate to others. In each area he had to undercut and explain with more clarity. Perhaps by doing so, he increased his own knowledge

Trying to explain things very clearly to others is a good way to learn increase your own knowledge.
Lakey

I read all your posts, but couldn't get it with what you wrote....it was confusing and frustrating to me.....and no I wasn't playing devil's advocate or toying with you. Your explanation might have been clear to you, but it wasn't clear to me. The discussion/data on Wikipedia clarified, simplified and brought into focus, for me, what this was about. There's no more to it than that.

Maybe you didn't really read my last post? I meant what I said and stated it very clearly.

But I'm glad you got more understanding for yourself by explaining it.
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I think by their very nature paradoxes tend to confuse people. And expaining paradoxes in minute detail will tend to spoil the effect oof the paradox, since often it is hidden in the language/explanations used or omitted.

I myself enjoy them thoroughly. logical conundrums too. These ones you presented here Lakey are all old standards that one has come across many times. Thanks for them anyway. Sorry that FoTi got thrown by this one.
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I think by their very nature paradoxes tend to confuse people. And expaining paradoxes in minute detail will tend to spoil the effect oof the paradox, since often it is hidden in the language/explanations used or omitted.

I myself enjoy them thoroughly. logical conundrums too. These ones you presented here Lakey are all old standards that one has come across many times. Thanks for them anyway. Sorry that FoTi got thrown by this one.

Thanks for commenting! The Monty Hall problem appeared in "Ask Marilyn" in the Sunday paper around 1991. I remember that I fell for the trap within the problem when I first read it. I read Marilyn's answer and it did not make sense so I worked the problem using high school algebra and got her answer. Still, it went so much against my intuition that I had no conceptual understanding. Finally, I got the idea. Understanding it actually increased my perception and gave me some good wins.

On "The Unexpected Hanging", I believe that problem is much harder to see than the Monty Hall problem.

According to Gardner's book the problem arose in 1943, during WWII in Sweden. A Swedish scientific lab made an announcement over their public address system that a mock air raid procedure would be run in the company's building one weekday the next week but no employees would know what day of the week the mock air raid drill would occur on until the air raid sirens went off at 9:00 AM on that surprise day.

At first, no one paid the air raid announcement any special attention and the workers went about their business. After awhile, one of the Swedes realized that if the the air raid siren was not sounded by Thursday, all the workers would know that it had to scheduled for Friday. Knowing it was Friday violated the terms of the announcement. People discussed it and at first said that Thursday was the last actual day on which the mock air raid could occur.

Next, someone realized that Thursday could be eliminated in exactly the same way that Friday had been eliminated and then others suggested that Wednesday could be eliminated, etc,etc. Finally, they had eliminated all the weekdays but the workers all had math and science backgrounds and realized there was something wrong with their logic. They realized that a Paradox had been uncovered. One of the workers wrote up the Paradox in a Swedish Technical Journal. I found that a really interesting story. It drew me in every time I thought about it.

Anyway, Leon, thanks for make your comments. I really needed someone besides FoTi to comment on the problem to help me close it out.
Lakey
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Thanks for the nice reply Smart One. The Avatar you used 2 years ago portrayed a very fit women, wasn't it the tennis player Hanna Mandlikova, all 6' 3" of her but then you mentioned you mentioned you were nearly 6' yourself.

Seriously, well done for all the great physical activity you engage in at age 64. That is fantastic, enjoying all those wonderful activities and dancing. Well done, carry on and all that tommy rot! BTW, how are things holding up during this recession in Jolly Olde England? Are you getting by okay in that department as well?
Lakey

Thanks Lakey for the kind words. I'm 5'10" but in my dance shoes I'm 6ft.

"A long drink of water" I used to be called when I lived across the pond. I get all my clothes from Long Tall Sally stores.

The recession doesn't really affect me because I get my State Pension and Gas/Electric Allowance.

Groceries have gone up a little bit but the supermarkets are bending over backwards to help with their BOGOFs and Price Drops so they can keep their customers happy.

VAT has gone up to 20% but that hasn't stopped me buying clothes, lol.

There's going to be a 2 million people protest march sometime this week about the pension cuts in the public sector (teachers, nurses, airport staff etc).

Thanks for asking :)
 
Re: Last Week

Last week, I was going to be in LA to finish a construction project. I didn't make it.

My son, who lives in Nor Cal and works across the continent, in NYC's house got burgled. And while I was killing a hornets' nest so that the septic tank could be pumped, I got stung stang and abused by the little critters even in the dark.

When the venom or whatever it is called fell into my bloodstream, I ended up sleeping 36 hours straight. In Pain. Unconscious. I can't even tell you if it was clear or raining outside for that period. I'm recovering. Should be in LA on Tuesday.

In the meantime I missed Dave and Aida's party of international exes. Can someone post pics and stories?

Here seems to be another solution to a hornets nest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8RVqIty9gA&feature=related

And here's more solutions....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSIP8RgUbf8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=4n-v6-WHWEo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka6Bz1cq2N4&feature=fvwrel

This duster would work with diatomaceous earth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt6pAjTgs4k&feature=related

And finally.....a different viewpoint...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4h_DIQKPPI&feature=related
 
Re: Last Week


[video=youtube;-NzFJxX8yoY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NzFJxX8yoY[/video]
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Since this is the "anything goes among friends" thread, I though it would be the best place for the below email I got from my buddies in Oz this morning. The original has a photo of Ben Stein at the top . . . but we can do without it here, since including it would be too much hassle.

Apparently the White House referred to Christmas Trees as Holiday Trees for the first time this year which prompted CBS presenter, Ben Stein, to present this piece which I would like to share with you. I think it applies just as much to many countries as it does to America.

The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.

My confession:

I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees, Christmas trees. I don't feel threatened. I don't feel discriminated against. That's what they are, Christmas trees.

It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, 'Merry Christmas' to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu . If people want a creche, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.

I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from, that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.

Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship celebrities and we aren't allowed to worship God ? I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where these celebrities came from and where the America we knew went to.

In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her 'How could God let something like this happen?' (regarding Hurricane Katrina).. Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, 'I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?'

In light of recent events... terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found a few years ago) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK. Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shalt not kill; thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave, because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said okay.

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with 'WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.'

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire, but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing. Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.

Are you laughing yet?

Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it.

Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.

Pass it on if you think it has merit.

If not, then just discard it.... no one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought process, don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in.

My Best Regards, Honestly and respectfully,

Ben Stein
 
China's Nukes

from:

http://news.yahoo.com/digging-china-nuclear-tunnels-013008319.html


Digging into China’s nuclear tunnels
By William Wan | The Washington Post – 21 hrs ago

Georgetown University's Professor Phillip A. Karber spent the Cold War as a top strategist reporting directly to the secretary of defense and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

The Chinese have called it their “Underground Great Wall” — a vast network of tunnels designed to hide their country’s increasingly sophisticated missile and nuclear arsenal.

For the past three years, a small band of obsessively dedicated students at Georgetown University has called it something else: homework.
Led by their hard-charging professor, a former top Pentagon official, they have translated hundreds of documents, combed through satellite imagery, obtained restricted Chinese military documents and waded through hundreds of gigabytes of online data.

The result of their effort? The largest body of public knowledge about thousands of miles of tunnels dug by the Second Artillery Corps, a secretive branch of the Chinese military in charge of protecting and deploying its ballistic missiles and nuclear warheads.

The study is yet to be released, but already it has sparked a congressional hearing and been circulated among top officials in the Pentagon, including the Air Force vice chief of staff.

Most of the attention has focused on the 363-page study’s provocative conclusion — that China’s nuclear arsenal could be many times larger than the well-established estimates of arms-control experts.

(Graphic: Evidence of China’s nuclear storage system)
“It’s not quite a bombshell, but those thoughts and estimates are being checked against what people think they know based on classified information,” said a Defense Department strategist who would discuss the study only on the condition of anonymity.

The study’s critics, however, have questioned the unorthodox Internet-based research of the students, who drew from sources as disparate as Google Earth, blogs, military journals and, perhaps most startlingly, a fictionalized TV docudrama about Chinese artillery soldiers — the rough equivalent of watching Fox’s TV show “24” for insights into U.S. counterterrorism efforts.
But the strongest condemnation has come from nonproliferation experts who worry that the study could fuel arguments for maintaining nuclear weapons in an era when efforts are being made to reduce the world’s post-Cold War stockpiles.
Beyond its impact in the policy world, the project has made a profound mark on the students — including some who have since graduated and taken research jobs with the Defense Department and Congress.

“I don’t even want to know how many hours I spent on it,” said Nick Yarosh, 22, an international politics senior at Georgetown. “But you ask people what they did in college, most just say I took this class, I was in this club. I can say I spent it reading Chinese nuclear strategy and Second Artillery manuals. For a nerd like me, that really means something.”

For students, an obsession

The students’ professor, Phillip A. Karber, 65, had spent the Cold War as a top strategist reporting directly to the secretary of defense and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. But it was his early work in defense that cemented his reputation, when he led an elite research team created by Henry Kissinger, who was then the national security adviser, to probe the weaknesses of Soviet forces.
Karber prided himself on recruiting the best intelligence analysts in the government. “You didn’t just want the highest-ranking or brightest guys, you wanted the ones who were hungry,” he said.

In 2008, Karber was volunteering on a committee for the Defense Threat Reduction Agency, a Pentagon agency charged with countering weapons of mass destruction.

After a devastating earthquake struck Sichuan province, the chairman of Karber’s committee noticed Chinese news accounts reporting that thousands of radiation technicians were rushing to the region. Then came pictures of strangely collapsed hills and speculation that the caved-in tunnels in the area had held nuclear weapons.

Find out what’s going on, the chairman asked Karber, who began looking for analysts again — this time among his students at Georgetown.
The first inductees came from his arms-control classes. Each semester, he set aside a day to show them tantalizing videos and documents he had begun gathering on the tunnels. Then he concluded with a simple question: What do you think it means?
“The fact that there were no answers to that really got to me,” said former student Dustin Walker, 22. “It started out like any other class, tests on this day or that, but people kept coming back, even after graduation. . . . We spent hours on our own outside of class on this stuff.”

The students worked in their dorms translating military texts. They skipped movie nights for marathon sessions reviewing TV clips of missiles being moved from one tunnel structure to another. While their friends read Shakespeare, they gathered in the library to war-game worst-case scenarios of a Chinese nuclear strike on the United States.

Over time, the team grew from a handful of contributors to roughly two dozen. Most spent their time studying the subterranean activities of the Second Artillery Corps.

While the tunnels’ existence was something of an open secret among the handful of experts studying China’s nuclear arms, almost no papers or public reports on the structures existed.

So the students turned to publicly available Chinese sources — military journals, local news reports and online photos posted by Chinese citizens. It helped that China’s famously secretive military was beginning to release more information, driven by its leaders’ eagerness to show off China’s growing power to its citizens.
The Internet also generated a raft of leads: new military forums, blogs and once-obscure local TV reports now posted on the Chinese equivalents of YouTube. Strategic string searches even allowed the students to get behind some military Web sites and download documents such as syllabuses taught at China’s military academies.

Drudgery and discoveries

The main problem was the sheer amount of translation required.

Each semester, Karber managed to recruit only one or two Chinese-speaking students. So the team assembled a makeshift system to scan images of the books and documents they found. Using text-capture software, they converted those pictures into Chinese characters, which were fed into translation software to produce crude English versions. From those, they highlighted key passages for finer translation by the Chinese speakers.

The downside was the drudgery — hours feeding pages into the scanner. The upside was that after three years, the students had compiled a searchable database of more than 1.4 million words on the Second Artillery and its tunnels.
By combining everything they found in the journals, video clips, satellite imagery and photos, they were able to triangulate the location of several tunnel structures, with a rough idea of what types of missiles were stored in each.

Their work also yielded smaller revelations: how the missiles were kept mobile and transported from structure to structure, as well as tantalizing images and accounts of a “missile train” and disguised passenger rail cars to move China’s long-range missiles.

To facilitate the work, Karber set up research rooms for the students at his home in Great Falls. He bought Apple computers and large flat-screen monitors for their video work and obtained small research grants for those who wanted to work through the summer. When work ran late, many crashed in his basement’s spare room.

“I got fat working on this thing because I didn’t go to the gym anymore. It was that intense,” said Yarosh, who has continued on the project this year not for credit but purely as a hobby. “It’s not the typical college course. Dr. Karber just tells you the objective and gives you total freedom to figure out how to get there. That level of trust can be liberating.”
Some of the biggest breakthroughs came after members of Karber’s team used personal connections in China to obtain a 400-page manual produced by the Second Artillery and usually available only to China’s military personnel.
Another source of insight was a pair of semi-fictionalized TV series chronicling the lives of Second Artillery soldiers.
The plots were often overwrought with melodrama — one series centers on a brigade commander who struggles to whip his slipshod unit into shape while juggling relationship problems with his glamorous Olympic-swim-coach girlfriend. But they also included surprisingly accurate depictions of artillery units’ procedures that lined up perfectly with the military manual and other documents.
“Until someone showed us on screen how exactly these missile deployments were done from the tunnels, we only had disparate pieces. The TV shows gave us the big picture of how it all worked together,” Karber said.

A bigger Chinese arsenal?

In December 2009, just as the students began making progress, the Chinese military admitted for the first time that the Second Artillery had indeed been building a network of tunnels. According to a report by state-run CCTV, China had more than 3,000 miles of tunnels — roughly the distance between Boston and San Francisco — including deep underground bases that could withstand multiple nuclear attacks.

The news shocked Karber and his team. It confirmed the direction of their research, but it also highlighted how little attention the tunnels were garnering outside East Asia.

The lack of interest, particularly in the U.S. media, demonstrated China’s unique position in the world of nuclear arms.

For decades, the focus has been on the two powers with the largest nuclear stockpiles by far — the United States, with 5,000 warheads available for deployment, and Russia, which has 8,000.

But of the five nuclear weapons states recognized by the Non-Proliferation Treaty, China has been the most secretive. While the United States and Russia are bound by bilateral treaties that require on-site inspections, disclosure of forces and bans on certain missiles, China is not.

The assumption for years has been that the Chinese arsenal is relatively small — anywhere from 80 to 400 warheads.

China has encouraged that perception. As the only one of the five original nuclear states with a no-first-use policy, it insists that it keeps a small stockpile only for “minimum deterrence.”

Given China’s lack of transparency, Karber argues, all the experts have to work with are assumptions, which can often be dead wrong. As an example, Karber often recounts to his students his experience of going to Russia with former defense secretary Frank C. Carlucci to discuss U.S. help in securing the Russian nuclear arsenal.

The United States had offered Russia about 20,000 canisters designed to safeguard warheads — a number based on U.S. estimates at the time.
The generals told Karber they needed 40,000.

Skepticism among analysts

At the end of the tunnel study, Karber cautions that the same could happen with China. Based on the number of tunnels the Second Artillery is digging and its increasing deployment of missiles, he argues, China’s nuclear warheads could number as many as 3,000.
It is an assertion that has provoked heated responses from the arms-control community.
Gregory Kulacki, a China nuclear analyst at the Union of Concerned Scientists, publicly condemned Karber’s report at a recent lecture in Washington. In an interview afterward, he called the 3,000 figure “ridiculous” and said the study’s methodology — especially its inclusion of posts from Chinese bloggers — was “incompetent and lazy.”
“The fact that they’re building tunnels could actually reinforce the exact opposite point,” he argued. “With more tunnels and a better chance of survivability, they may think they don’t need as many warheads to strike back.”
Reaction from others has been more moderate.
“Their research has value, but it also shows the danger of the Internet,” said Hans M. Kristensen of the Federation of American Scientists. Kristensen faulted some of the students’ interpretation of the satellite images.

“One thing his report accomplishes, I think, is it highlights the uncertainty about what China has,” said Mark Stokes, executive director of the Project 2049 Institute, a think tank. “There’s no question China’s been investing in tunnels, and to look at those efforts and pose this question is worthwhile.”

This year, the Defense Department’s annual report on China’s military highlighted for the first time the Second Artillery’s work on new tunnels, partly a result of Karber’s report, according to some Pentagon officials. And in the spring, shortly before a visit to China, some in the office of then-Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates were briefed on the study.

“I think it’s fair to say senior officials here have keyed upon the importance of this work,” said one Pentagon officer who was not authorized to speak on the record.
For Karber, provoking such debate means that he and his small army of undergrads have succeeded.

“I don’t have the slightest idea how many nuclear weapons China really has, but neither does anyone else in the arms-control community,” he said. “That’s the problem with China — no one really knows except them.”
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

For those of you who may have wondered what happened to Jonnie Raffo, "The Magic Thetan" . . . you might enjoy hearing him chatting on web talk radio here:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/lesleymitchell-clarke/2011/11/28/contact-with-lesley-mitchell-clarke

Jon is chatting about "tuning in" to other Beings, even civilizations, telepathically with the show host Lesley Mitchell-Clarke.

Lot's of other interesting points opened up and chatted about.

R
 
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Re: China

Just biologically speaking...

An imbalance of testosterone/estrogen can lead to trouble in one human body. Such an imbalance multiplies in a group. Think of the Navy's infamous Tail-hook party, and many other examples of testosterone overload. We have seen how crazy young guys can get when testosterone surges during teen years--and later. We guys have been know to do some pretty stupid stuff.

From Wiki:

China
There have been some accusations that infanticide occurs in the People's Republic of China due to the one-child policy. In the 1990s, a certain stretch of the Yangtze River was known to be a common site of infanticide by drowning, until government projects made access to it more difficult. Others assert that China has twenty-five million fewer girl children than expected, but this can partially be explained by sex selective abortion. The illegal use of ultrasound is widespread in China, and itinerant sonographers with plain vans in parking lots offer inexpensive sonographs to determine the sex of a fetus. Recent studies suggest that over 40 million girls and women are 'missing' in China (Klasen and Wink 2003).

India
The practice has continued in some rural areas of India. Infanticide is illegal in India.

According to a recent report by the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF) up to 50 million girls and women are missing in India's population as a result of systematic sex discrimination. The UNICEF study has been criticized by the Indian Medical Association for utilizing outdated data and for deliberately demonizing Indians for the purposes of politics.
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Since this is the "anything goes among friends" thread, I though it would be the best place for the below email I got from my buddies in Oz this morning. The original has a photo of Ben Stein at the top . . . but we can do without it here, since including it would be too much hassle.

Thank you Roger for posting this and Ben Stein for writing this and putting it out on the major media!! Ben Stein said brilliantly what so many of us feel. Those who parrot the phrase, "separation of Church and state" to suppress Christianity seem to me to be very misguided. They hear a phrase, "separation of Church and state" and become robotic to it without really researching the subject.

I was born a Jew and raised amongst Jews. I encountered not even one Jewish person who resented anything to do with Christmas or felt their Judaism was threatened by Christmas in any way. Rather, they praised Christians for helping establish the first country since 70 AD which gave Jews full and equal citizenship and the right to freely practice their religion.

In the minds of those who try and suppress Christmas on the grounds that it violates "separation of Church and state", somehow religions which are in the minority in the USA, such as Islam, are given a pass. So are offbeat religions such as the Wickens. You will see the ACLU defending Islam, the Wickens and other non main stream religions in the courts while at the same time vigorously attacking Christian and Jewish practices. There goes the "separation" clause. As practicised in the "politically correct" USA, it is the "separation of the Christian and Jewish Churches and state".
Lakey
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Thank you Roger for posting this and Ben Stein for writing this and putting it out on the major media!! Ben Stein said brilliantly what so many of us feel. Those who parrot the phrase, "separation of Church and state" to suppress Christianity seem to me to be very misguided. They hear a phrase, "separation of Church and state" and become robotic to it without really researching the subject.

I was born a Jew and raised amongst Jews. I encountered not even one Jewish person who resented anything to do with Christmas or felt their Judaism was threatened by Christmas in any way. Rather, they praised Christians for helping establish the first country since 70 AD which gave Jews full and equal citizenship and the right to freely practice their religion.

In the minds of those who try and suppress Christmas on the grounds that it violates "separation of Church and state", somehow religions which are in the minority in the USA, such as Islam, are given a pass. So are offbeat religions such as the Wickens. You will see the ACLU defending Islam, the Wickens and other non main stream religions in the courts while at the same time vigorously attacking Christian and Jewish practices. There goes the "separation" clause. As practicised in the "politically correct" USA, it is the "separation of the Christian and Jewish Churches and state".
Lakey

Yes, this trying to erase any mention or symbol of our mainstream religions from "public spaces or view" has taken on ridiculous proportions.

Though I question the statement above in red, unless you do mean it in a sense that the US was established to give Jews full and equal rights . . . and that I kind of question.

The UK had long given Jews equality . . . indeed, the UK even has had a Jewish Prime Minister (born in Italy, no less!) . . . and this at a time when Jews were excluded from the "mainstream" and important educational institutions in the USA.

Disraeli was twice Prime Minister under Queen Victoria. It is to be remembered that the Ivy League Universities in the US barred entry to Jews at the time . . . . this from wiki on the City University of New York (CUNY)

Many Jewish academics and intellectuals studied and taught at CUNY in the post-World War I era when Ivy League universities, such as Yale University, discriminated against Jews.[6] The City College of New York has had a reputation of being "the Harvard of the proletariat."

I have been told that, indeed, New York University (not CUNY, but the other private university in New York along with Columbia University) was set up in the early 19th century by the Jewish community because they could not enter Columbia . . . though the wiki history does not mention this.

Wiki refers to the setting up of NYU thus:
Educators in Paris, Vienna, and London were beginning to consider a new form of higher learning, where students began to focus not only on the classics and religion, but also modern languages, philosophy, history, political economy, mathematics, and physical science; so students might become merchants, bankers, lawyers, physicians, architects, and engineers. Although the new school would be non-denominational – unlike many American colonial colleges, which at the time offered classical educations centered on theology – the founding of NYU was also a reaction by evangelical Presbyterians to what they perceived as the Episcopalianism of Columbia College.

Rog
 
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