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FoTi

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Lakey....if there is no goldenrod, how did your friend know that you were declared?

I was just thinking.....when all have left the cult and become declared SPs.....that leaves DM with all the corporations, all the real estate, all the money. Hmmmm....Looks like he's planned well for his retirement.
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Lakey....if there is no goldenrod, how did your friend know that you were declared?

I was just thinking.....when all have left the cult and become declared SPs.....that leaves DM with all the corporations, all the real estate, all the money. Hmmmm....Looks like he's planned well for his retirement.

The former friend of mine phoned a mutual friend and told him that he had read my declare so as to make him aware not to communicate with me any more. The mutual friend then emailed me that he could no longer communicate with me.

I was skeptical until I realized that I was no longer receiving all the Scientology email. I checked my old mail and my recently deleted mail and there was no Scn email. This morning I checked my Spam and there was an email from "Applied Scholastics" only 2 days ago so maybe they haven't got the message.

I think I will take the position that I am not declared until I receive formal notification from C of S. After all, that is policy. I believe a Committee of Evidence is supposed to be called, charges are supposed to be presented and the findings are supposed to be broadly distributed while the person being declared is supposed to receive official notice in "Godenrod". Until I receive official notice from the C of S, I am going to consider that I am not declared.

In any case it is nice not to be receiving all that spam and junk mail!
Lakey
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

fascinating. (as Spock would say)

by causing a break up in your family, he's a Co$ "good guy" not a suppressive , as defined by the list of anti social attributes.

by your communicating (communication being the universal solvent, when in doubt, communicate, etc), you are an SP

he is a master of ambiguity at the least.


whatever you do, don't call him and tell him that you know me.

I, for one, don't want my eternity threatened.

You know Carmelo, the opening lines of your reply (above) started to sink in to my head this evening. I was upset with this guy interfering in my life but he is too insignificant to be the cause of it. I was able to relate the actual cause of my upset to what you wrote above.

My upset stemmed from your comments about communication and communicating. An ethical member of the C of S, if such a thing is still possible, would be correct in cutting the comm line with me and reporting me to the Int Justice Chief but then the ethical "church" member should have got off of the line.

The C of S should have notified me of my alleged declare and sent me some sort of official notification while my mutual friend who still has C of S connections should have found out through the C of S itself. There is no need for this "busy body" to call our mutual friend and give them verbal data over the phone that I have been declared.

HUBBARD'S MANTRA - "IF IT ISN'T WRITTEN, IT ISN'T TRUE!"
I am going to apply this piece of Hubbard tech which I have always agreed with and until I receive something from the "church" in writing, I am going to consider myself still in good standing with C of S. If anyone asks me if I am in good standing, the answer is still "yes" and will remain so until I receive something in writing from C of S stating otherwise.

FOOD FOR THOUGHT FOR A NEW THREAD
Is it possible to be an ethical member of today's Church of Scientology?
Lakey
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

[...]

FOOD FOR THOUGHT FOR A NEW THREAD
Is it possible to be an ethical member of today's Church of Scientology?
Lakey


Playing Scientology here for a moment...

Looking at a copy of the org board you will notice the awareness characteristic of Dept 3 housing the Ethics Section is "Perception." To improve ethics one must improve perception.

As defined by Hubbard, "Ethics are reason."

One cannot reason with faulty perception.

A process that might have some value for some. I find it amusing:

"What did you see?" (or more objectively, "What do you see?")

"What were you told?"

Run alternate-repetitive after the next expansion event extolling the worldwide stats.

Follow up with a round of TR-2 Bullshit. I believe I have written that one up much earlier. The answer to your question above will be forthcoming. :thumbsup:
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Of course! However your time there would be measured in days if not hours.

Yes Terril, that's what I was thinking. Also, it probably depends on where you join up, org or mission, location of the org or mission and data what is presented to you in your intro lecture or recruitment session.

A bright eyed and bushy tailed ethical new person might sign up with the best intentions of helping out. How long can you go in today's C of S before you run into an insane order or something major which you were promised turns out to be untrue?

How long before the "greatest good for the greatest number" tilts towards realizing that to quit is one's only ethical solution? Remember, the new recruit usually does not know the doubt formula upon joining. Most people have enough common sense to weigh the pros and cons of an employment situation and decide to leave a group or organization if they deem it unethical.
Lakey.
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Playing Scientology here for a moment...

Looking at a copy of the org board you will notice the awareness characteristic of Dept 3 housing the Ethics Section is "Perception." To improve ethics one must improve perception.

As defined by Hubbard, "Ethics are reason."

One cannot reason with faulty perception.

A process that might have some value for some. I find it amusing:

"What did you see?" (or more objectively, "What do you see?")

"What were you told?"

Run alternate-repetitive after the next expansion event extolling the worldwide stats.

Follow up with a round of TR-2 Bullshit. I believe I have written that one up much earlier. The answer to your question above will be forthcoming. :thumbsup:

Ted, this is brilliant! It is part joke and part tech but the tech part appears quite valid!
Lakey
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

A "declare" from a shrinking cult is absolutely meaningless - well, except to those who believe that the " tech " is "valid " and scn is the salvation for mankind, et al.

In that case, there is no help available yet......be miserable in being declared by a bunch of space cadet loonies.

And... anyone who still really believes the C o $ follows their own "policies" is way beyond naive.... and extremely gullible... still.

Getting "declared" does not matter to anyone except a fool.

Stop buying the bullshit.

Live life !
 
Last edited:

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Not to beat this subject to death but Just a final note about some Bozo passing verbal data that I have been Declared. Two days ago, I received a spam email from Applied Scholastics and today two new emails have arrived so far, one from HAPI in Scotland and one from the Freewinds so I was wrong about thinking I had been removed from C of S mailing lists.
Lakey
 
NY Times today

April 28, 2012
How Apple Sidesteps Billions in Taxes
By CHARLES DUHIGG and DAVID KOCIENIEWSKI
RENO, Nev. — Apple, the world’s most profitable technology company, doesn’t design iPhones here. It doesn’t run AppleCare customer service from this city. And it doesn’t manufacture MacBooks or iPads anywhere nearby.

Yet, with a handful of employees in a small office here in Reno, Apple has done something central to its corporate strategy: it has avoided millions of dollars in taxes in California and 20 other states.

Apple’s headquarters are in Cupertino, Calif. By putting an office in Reno, just 200 miles away, to collect and invest the company’s profits, Apple sidesteps state income taxes on some of those gains.

California’s corporate tax rate is 8.84 percent. Nevada’s? Zero.

Setting up an office in Reno is just one of many legal methods Apple uses to reduce its worldwide tax bill by billions of dollars each year. As it has in Nevada, Apple has created subsidiaries in low-tax places like Ireland, the Netherlands, Luxembourg and the British Virgin Islands — some little more than a letterbox or an anonymous office — that help cut the taxes it pays around the world.

Almost every major corporation tries to minimize its taxes, of course. For Apple, the savings are especially alluring because the company’s profits are so high. Wall Street analysts predict Apple could earn up to $45.6 billion in its current fiscal year — which would be a record for any American business.

Apple serves as a window on how technology giants have taken advantage of tax codes written for an industrial age and ill suited to today’s digital economy. Some profits at companies like Apple, Google, Amazon, Hewlett-Packard and Microsoft derive not from physical goods but from royalties on intellectual property, like the patents on software that makes devices work. Other times, the products themselves are digital, like downloaded songs. It is much easier for businesses with royalties and digital products to move profits to low-tax countries than it is, say, for grocery stores or automakers. A downloaded application, unlike a car, can be sold from anywhere.

The growing digital economy presents a conundrum for lawmakers overseeing corporate taxation: although technology is now one of the nation’s largest and most valued industries, many tech companies are among the least taxed, according to government and corporate data. Over the last two years, the 71 technology companies in the Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index — including Apple, Google, Yahoo and Dell — reported paying worldwide cash taxes at a rate that, on average, was a third less than other S.& P. companies’. (Cash taxes may include payments for multiple years.)

Even among tech companies, Apple’s rates are low. And while the company has remade industries, ignited economic growth and delighted customers, it has also devised corporate strategies that take advantage of gaps in the tax code, according to former executives who helped create those strategies.

Apple, for instance, was among the first tech companies to designate overseas salespeople in high-tax countries in a manner that allowed them to sell on behalf of low-tax subsidiaries on other continents, sidestepping income taxes, according to former executives. Apple was a pioneer of an accounting technique known as the “Double Irish With a Dutch Sandwich,” which reduces taxes by routing profits through Irish subsidiaries and the Netherlands and then to the Caribbean. Today, that tactic is used by hundreds of other corporations — some of which directly imitated Apple’s methods, say accountants at those companies.

Without such tactics, Apple’s federal tax bill in the United States most likely would have been $2.4 billion higher last year, according to a recent study by a former Treasury Department economist, Martin A. Sullivan. As it stands, the company paid cash taxes of $3.3 billion around the world on its reported profits of $34.2 billion last year, a tax rate of 9.8 percent. (Apple does not disclose what portion of those payments was in the United States, or what portion is assigned to previous or future years.)

By comparison, Wal-Mart last year paid worldwide cash taxes of $5.9 billion on its booked profits of $24.4 billion, a tax rate of 24 percent, which is about average for non-tech companies.

Apple’s domestic tax bill has piqued particular curiosity among corporate tax experts because although the company is based in the United States, its profits — on paper, at least — are largely foreign. While Apple contracts out much of the manufacturing and assembly of its products to other companies overseas, the majority of Apple’s executives, product designers, marketers, employees, research and development, and retail stores are in the United States. Tax experts say it is therefore reasonable to expect that most of Apple’s profits would be American as well. The nation’s tax code is based on the concept that a company “earns” income where value is created, rather than where products are sold.

However, Apple’s accountants have found legal ways to allocate about 70 percent of its profits overseas, where tax rates are often much lower, according to corporate filings.

Neither the government nor corporations make tax returns public, and a company’s taxable income often differs from the profits disclosed in annual reports. Companies report their cash outlays for income taxes in their annual Form 10-K, but it is impossible from those numbers to determine precisely how much, in total, corporations pay to governments. In Apple’s last annual disclosure, the company listed its worldwide taxes — which includes cash taxes paid as well as deferred taxes and other charges — at $8.3 billion, an effective tax rate of almost a quarter of profits.

However, tax analysts and scholars said that figure most likely overstated how much the company would hand to governments because it included sums that might never be paid. “The information on 10-Ks is fiction for most companies,” said Kimberly Clausing, an economist at Reed College who specializes in multinational taxation. “But for tech companies it goes from fiction to farcical.”

Apple, in a statement, said it “has conducted all of its business with the highest of ethical standards, complying with applicable laws and accounting rules.” It added, “We are incredibly proud of all of Apple’s contributions.”

Apple “pays an enormous amount of taxes, which help our local, state and federal governments,” the statement also said. “In the first half of fiscal year 2012, our U.S. operations have generated almost $5 billion in federal and state income taxes, including income taxes withheld on employee stock gains, making us among the top payers of U.S. income tax.”

The statement did not specify how it arrived at $5 billion, nor did it address the issue of deferred taxes, which the company may pay in future years or decide to defer indefinitely. The $5 billion figure appears to include taxes ultimately owed by Apple employees.

The sums paid by Apple and other tech corporations is a point of contention in the company’s backyard.

A mile and a half from Apple’s Cupertino headquarters is De Anza College, a community college that Steve Wozniak, one of Apple’s founders, attended from 1969 to 1974. Because of California’s state budget crisis, De Anza has cut more than a thousand courses and 8 percent of its faculty since 2008.

Now, De Anza faces a budget gap so large that it is confronting a “death spiral,” the school’s president, Brian Murphy, wrote to the faculty in January. Apple, of course, is not responsible for the state’s financial shortfall, which has numerous causes. But the company’s tax policies are seen by officials like Mr. Murphy as symptomatic of why the crisis exists.

“I just don’t understand it,” he said in an interview. “I’ll bet every person at Apple has a connection to De Anza. Their kids swim in our pool. Their cousins take classes here. They drive past it every day, for Pete’s sake.

“But then they do everything they can to pay as few taxes as possible.”

Escaping State Taxes

In 2006, as Apple’s bank accounts and stock price were rising, company executives came here to Reno and established a subsidiary named Braeburn Capital to manage and invest the company’s cash. Braeburn is a variety of apple that is simultaneously sweet and tart.

Today, Braeburn’s offices are down a narrow hallway inside a bland building that sits across from an abandoned restaurant. Inside, there are posters of candy-colored iPods and a large Apple insignia, as well as a handful of desks and computer terminals.

When someone in the United States buys an iPhone, iPad or other Apple product, a portion of the profits from that sale is often deposited into accounts controlled by Braeburn, and then invested in stocks, bonds or other financial instruments, say company executives. Then, when those investments turn a profit, some of it is shielded from tax authorities in California by virtue of Braeburn’s Nevada address.

Since founding Braeburn, Apple has earned more than $2.5 billion in interest and dividend income on its cash reserves and investments around the globe. If Braeburn were located in Cupertino, where Apple’s top executives work, a portion of the domestic income would be taxed at California’s 8.84 percent corporate income tax rate.

But in Nevada there is no state corporate income tax and no capital gains tax.

What’s more, Braeburn allows Apple to lower its taxes in other states — including Florida, New Jersey and New Mexico — because many of those jurisdictions use formulas that reduce what is owed when a company’s financial management occurs elsewhere. Apple does not disclose what portion of cash taxes is paid to states, but the company reported that it owed $762 million in state income taxes nationwide last year. That effective state tax rate is higher than the rate of many other tech companies, but as Ms. Clausing and other tax analysts have noted, such figures are often not reliable guides to what is actually paid.

Dozens of other companies, including Cisco, Harley-Davidson and Microsoft, have also set up Nevada subsidiaries that bypass taxes in other states. Hundreds of other corporations reap similar savings by locating offices in Delaware.

But some in California are unhappy that Apple and other California-based companies have moved financial operations to tax-free states — particularly since lawmakers have offered them tax breaks to keep them in the state.

In 1996, 1999 and 2000, for instance, the California Legislature increased the state’s research and development tax credit, permitting hundreds of companies, including Apple, to avoid billions in state taxes, according to legislative analysts. Apple has reported tax savings of $412 million from research and development credits of all sorts since 1996.

Then, in 2009, after an intense lobbying campaign led by Apple, Cisco, Oracle, Intel and other companies, the California Legislature reduced taxes for corporations based in California but operating in other states or nations. Legislative analysts say the change will eventually cost the state government about $1.5 billion a year.

Such lost revenue is one reason California now faces a budget crisis, with a shortfall of more than $9.2 billion in the coming fiscal year alone. The state has cut some health care programs, significantly raised tuition at state universities, cut services to the disabled and proposed a $4.8 billion reduction in spending on kindergarten and other grades.

Apple declined to comment on its Nevada operations. Privately, some executives said it was unfair to criticize the company for reducing its tax bill when thousands of other companies acted similarly. If Apple volunteered to pay more in taxes, it would put itself at a competitive disadvantage, they argued, and do a disservice to its shareholders.

Indeed, Apple’s decisions have yielded benefits. After announcing one of the best quarters in its history last week, the company said it had net profits of $24.7 billion on revenues of $85.5 billion in the first half of the fiscal year, and more than $110 billion in the bank, according to company filings.

A Global Tax Strategy

Every second of every hour, millions of times each day, in living rooms and at cash registers, consumers click the “Buy” button on iTunes or hand over payment for an Apple product.

And with that, an international financial engine kicks into gear, moving money across continents in the blink of an eye. While Apple’s Reno office helps the company avoid state taxes, its international subsidiaries — particularly the company’s assignment of sales and patent royalties to other nations — help reduce taxes owed to the American and other governments.

For instance, one of Apple’s subsidiaries in Luxembourg, named iTunes S.à r.l., has just a few dozen employees, according to corporate documents filed in that nation and a current executive. The only indication of the subsidiary’s presence outside is a letterbox with a lopsided slip of paper reading “ITUNES SARL.”

Luxembourg has just half a million residents. But when customers across Europe, Africa or the Middle East — and potentially elsewhere — download a song, television show or app, the sale is recorded in this small country, according to current and former executives. In 2011, iTunes S.à r.l.’s revenue exceeded $1 billion, according to an Apple executive, representing roughly 20 percent of iTunes’s worldwide sales.

The advantages of Luxembourg are simple, say Apple executives. The country has promised to tax the payments collected by Apple and numerous other tech corporations at low rates if they route transactions through Luxembourg. Taxes that would have otherwise gone to the governments of Britain, France, the United States and dozens of other nations go to Luxembourg instead, at discounted rates.

“We set up in Luxembourg because of the favorable taxes,” said Robert Hatta, who helped oversee Apple’s iTunes retail marketing and sales for European markets until 2007. “Downloads are different from tractors or steel because there’s nothing you can touch, so it doesn’t matter if your computer is in France or England. If you’re buying from Luxembourg, it’s a relationship with Luxembourg.”

An Apple spokesman declined to comment on the Luxembourg operations.

Downloadable goods illustrate how modern tax systems have become increasingly ill equipped for an economy dominated by electronic commerce. Apple, say former executives, has been particularly talented at identifying legal tax loopholes and hiring accountants who, as much as iPhone designers, are known for their innovation. In the 1980s, for instance, Apple was among the first major corporations to designate overseas distributors as “commissionaires,” rather than retailers, said Michael Rashkin, Apple’s first director of tax policy, who helped set up the system before leaving in 1999.

To customers the designation was virtually unnoticeable. But because commissionaires never technically take possession of inventory — which would require them to recognize taxes — the structure allowed a salesman in high-tax Germany, for example, to sell computers on behalf of a subsidiary in low-tax Singapore. Hence, most of those profits would be taxed at Singaporean, rather than German, rates.

The Double Irish

In the late 1980s, Apple was among the pioneers in creating a tax structure — known as the Double Irish — that allowed the company to move profits into tax havens around the world, said Tim Jenkins, who helped set up the system as an Apple European finance manager until 1994.

Apple created two Irish subsidiaries — today named Apple Operations International and Apple Sales International — and built a glass-encased factory amid the green fields of Cork. The Irish government offered Apple tax breaks in exchange for jobs, according to former executives with knowledge of the relationship.

But the bigger advantage was that the arrangement allowed Apple to send royalties on patents developed in California to Ireland. The transfer was internal, and simply moved funds from one part of the company to a subsidiary overseas. But as a result, some profits were taxed at the Irish rate of approximately 12.5 percent, rather than at the American statutory rate of 35 percent. In 2004, Ireland, a nation of less than 5 million, was home to more than one-third of Apple’s worldwide revenues, according to company filings. (Apple has not released more recent estimates.)

Moreover, the second Irish subsidiary — the “Double” — allowed other profits to flow to tax-free companies in the Caribbean. Apple has assigned partial ownership of its Irish subsidiaries to Baldwin Holdings Unlimited in the British Virgin Islands, a tax haven, according to documents filed there and in Ireland. Baldwin Holdings has no listed offices or telephone number, and its only listed director is Peter Oppenheimer, Apple’s chief financial officer, who lives and works in Cupertino. Baldwin apples are known for their hardiness while traveling.

Finally, because of Ireland’s treaties with European nations, some of Apple’s profits could travel virtually tax-free through the Netherlands — the Dutch Sandwich — which made them essentially invisible to outside observers and tax authorities.

Robert Promm, Apple’s controller in the mid-1990s, called the strategy “the worst-kept secret in Europe.”

It is unclear precisely how Apple’s overseas finances now function. In 2006, the company reorganized its Irish divisions as unlimited corporations, which have few requirements to disclose financial information.

However, tax experts say that strategies like the Double Irish help explain how Apple has managed to keep its international taxes to 3.2 percent of foreign profits last year, to 2.2 percent in 2010, and in the single digits for the last half-decade, according to the company’s corporate filings.

Apple declined to comment on its operations in Ireland, the Netherlands and the British Virgin Islands.

Apple reported in its last annual disclosures that $24 billion — or 70 percent — of its total $34.2 billion in pretax profits were earned abroad, and 30 percent were earned in the United States. But Mr. Sullivan, the former Treasury Department economist who today writes for the trade publication Tax Analysts, said that “given that all of the marketing and products are designed here, and the patents were created in California, that number should probably be at least 50 percent.”

If profits were evenly divided between the United States and foreign countries, Apple’s federal tax bill would have increased by about $2.4 billion last year, he said, because a larger amount of its profits would have been subject to the United States’ higher corporate income tax rate.

“Apple, like many other multinationals, is using perfectly legal methods to keep a significant portion of their profits out of the hands of the I.R.S.,” Mr. Sullivan said. “And when America’s most profitable companies pay less, the general public has to pay more.”

Other tax experts, like Edward D. Kleinbard, former chief of staff of the Congressional Joint Committee on Taxation, have reached similar conclusions.

“This tax avoidance strategy used by Apple and other multinationals doesn’t just minimize the companies’ U.S. taxes,” said Mr. Kleinbard, now a professor of tax law at the University of Southern California. “It’s German tax and French tax and tax in the U.K. and elsewhere.”

One downside for companies using such strategies is that when money is sent overseas, it cannot be returned to the United States without incurring a new tax bill.

However, that might change. Apple, which holds $74 billion offshore, last year aligned itself with more than four dozen companies and organizations urging Congress for a “repatriation holiday” that would permit American businesses to bring money home without owing large taxes. The coalition, which includes Google, Microsoft and Pfizer, has hired dozens of lobbyists to push for the measure, which has not yet come up for vote. The tax break would cost the federal government $79 billion over the next decade, according to a Congressional report.

Fallout in California

In one of his last public appearances before his death, Steven P. Jobs, Apple’s chief executive, addressed Cupertino’s City Council last June, seeking approval to build a new headquarters.

Most of the Council was effusive in its praise of the proposal. But one councilwoman, Kris Wang, had questions.

How will residents benefit? she asked. Perhaps Apple could provide free wireless Internet to Cupertino, she suggested, something Google had done in neighboring Mountain View.

“See, I’m a simpleton; I’ve always had this view that we pay taxes, and the city should do those things,” Mr. Jobs replied, according to a video of the meeting. “That’s why we pay taxes. Now, if we can get out of paying taxes, I’ll be glad to put up Wi-Fi.”

He suggested that, if the City Council were unhappy, perhaps Apple could move. The company is Cupertino’s largest taxpayer, with more than $8 million in property taxes assessed by local officials last year.

Ms. Wang dropped her suggestion.

Cupertino, Ms. Wang said in an interview, has real financial problems. “We’re proud to have Apple here,” said Ms. Wang, who has since left the Council. “But how do you get them to feel more connected?”

Other residents argue that Apple does enough as Cupertino’s largest employer and that tech companies, in general, have buoyed California’s economy. Apple’s workers eat in local restaurants, serve on local boards and donate to local causes. Silicon Valley’s many millionaires pay personal state income taxes. In its statement, Apple said its “international growth is creating jobs domestically, since we oversee most of our operations from California.”

“The vast majority of our global work force remains in the U.S.,” the statement continued, “with more than 47,000 full-time employees in all 50 states.”

Moreover, Apple has given nearby Stanford University more than $50 million in the last two years. The company has also donated $50 million to an African aid organization. In its statement, Apple said: “We have contributed to many charitable causes but have never sought publicity for doing so. Our focus has been on doing the right thing, not getting credit for it. In 2011, we dramatically expanded the number of deserving organizations we support by initiating a matching gift program for our employees.”

Still, some, including De Anza College’s president, Mr. Murphy, say the philanthropy and job creation do not offset Apple’s and other companies’ decisions to circumvent taxes. Within 20 minutes of the financially ailing school are the global headquarters of Google, Facebook, Intel, Hewlett-Packard and Cisco.

“When it comes time for all these companies — Google and Apple and Facebook and the rest — to pay their fair share, there’s a knee-jerk resistance,” Mr. Murphy said. “They’re philosophically antitax, and it’s decimating the state.”

“But I’m not complaining,” he added. “We can’t afford to upset these guys. We need every dollar we can get.”

Additional reporting was contributed by Keith Bradsher in Hong Kong, Siem Eikelenboom in Amsterdam, Dean Greenaway in the British Virgin Islands, Scott Sayare in Luxembourg and Jason Woodard in Singapore.
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Not to beat this subject to death but Just a final note about some Bozo passing verbal data that I have been Declared. Two days ago, I received a spam email from Applied Scholastics and today two new emails have arrived so far, one from HAPI in Scotland and one from the Freewinds so I was wrong about thinking I had been removed from C of S mailing lists.
Lakey


Come on, Lakey. The organization is just not that efficient. The right hands never know what the left hands are doing. My wife and I had goldenrod in hand. We were still getting calls from Flag and promo from AOLA long after the fact.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Not to beat this subject to death but Just a final note about some Bozo passing verbal data that I have been Declared. Two days ago, I received a spam email from Applied Scholastics and today two new emails have arrived so far, one from HAPI in Scotland and one from the Freewinds so I was wrong about thinking I had been removed from C of S mailing lists.
Lakey

In general the least organised place in an scn org has been CF. If say LA declares you, they presumably send this to all orgs. However it requires
someone in all these orgs to actually put the file in dead files. There may not be anyone on post at all, or part time dealing with backlogs continually and no one keeping records straight and making sure things aren't just swept up etc.

Guess I was lucky, was getting call in until DM delivered his first event
at St Hill. He clearly had minions look over the confirmed list and found that OSA sentral had a file on me.

They never darkened my letterbox again, but I did get a sweet young E/O call me to say I couldn't attend the event.
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Thanks to Ted and Terril

In general the least organised place in an scn org has been CF. If say LA declares you, they presumably send this to all orgs. However it requires
someone in all these orgs to actually put the file in dead files. There may not be anyone on post at all, or part time dealing with backlogs continually and no one keeping records straight and making sure things aren't just swept up etc.

Guess I was lucky, was getting call in until DM delivered his first event
at St Hill. He clearly had minions look over the confirmed list and found that OSA sentral had a file on me.

They never darkened my letterbox again, but I did get a sweet young E/O call me to say I couldn't attend the event.

Ted and Terril, thanks for your informative posts. Do either of you or anyone else know whether a person can just be labeled a supressive person behind the scene and never be notified about it? Also, isn't the declared person supposed to receive an official notice of having been declared? Finallty, is a hearing supposed to be held where the person is given the right of defending their position?
Lakey
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Thanks to Ted and Terril

Ted and Terril, thanks for your informative posts. Do either of you or anyone else know whether a person can just be labeled a supressive person behind the scene and never be notified about it? Also, isn't the declared person supposed to receive an official notice of having been declared? Finallty, is a hearing supposed to be held where the person is given the right of defending their position?
Lakey


Just dump your understanding of how things are supposed to be based on LRH policy. Then and only then will things make sense.

A person can just be labeled suppressive. How do I know? It is being done routinely.

The declared person is supposed to receive a copy of the declare. Remember, "If it isn't written, it isn't true"?

Following that, the declared person is supposed to have an impartial review of the justice action, a Review Comm Ev.

In practice, none of the above applies.

Just don't worry about it.

If my best friends ganged up on me to declare me an asshole or something worse, I would probably take note. When a bunch of duplicitous assholes declare themselves to be in charge of me, and declare me to be an unethical SOB with evil intentions, completely ignoring any contribution I have made to the cause, all I can do is thank the gods that they released me from trap.

You have been on the internet speaking out, speaking your mind, flawed though it may be (LOL).

Congratulations!

You are on your way to completing an actual Grade 0. Try not to harm anyone who shouldn't be harmed in the process. Keep your fixed ideas out of the process. Eventually, we hope, you will be complete with the Grade. Grade 0 is THE OT Grade.

Carry on, Lakey. Whether you earned a declare or not remains to be seen. Just because the church gave you one does not mean you have earned one. (Ambiguity intended.)

At any rate, carry on!
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Re: Thanks to Ted and Terril

Just dump your understanding of how things are supposed to be based on LRH policy. Then and only then will things make sense.

A person can just be labeled suppressive. How do I know? It is being done routinely.

The declared person is supposed to receive a copy of the declare. Remember, "If it isn't written, it isn't true"?

Following that, the declared person is supposed to have an impartial review of the justice action, a Review Comm Ev.

In practice, none of the above applies.

Just don't worry about it.

If my best friends ganged up on me to declare me an asshole or something worse, I would probably take note. When a bunch of duplicitous assholes declare themselves to be in charge of me, and declare me to be an unethical SOB with evil intentions, completely ignoring any contribution I have made to the cause, all I can do is thank the gods that they released me from trap.

You have been on the internet speaking out, speaking your mind, flawed though it may be (LOL).

Congratulations!

You are on your way to completing an actual Grade 0. Try not to harm anyone who shouldn't be harmed in the process. Keep your fixed ideas out of the process. Eventually, we hope, you will be complete with the Grade. Grade 0 is THE OT Grade.

Carry on, Lakey. Whether you earned a declare or not remains to be seen. Just because the church gave you one does not mean you have earned one. (Ambiguity intended.)

At any rate, carry on!

I at one time had that Grade 0 OT level copied. Can't recall from who
or where I put it. Probably a few computers ago.

Per this and the movie "Matrix" one could stop speeding bullets. Though
perhaps I exagerate in that EP wasn't always easy to obtain.

Anyway Fuck DM and the mouse he rode in on. :)
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: Thanks to Ted and Terril

Just dump your understanding of how things are supposed to be based on LRH policy. Then and only then will things make sense.

A person can just be labeled suppressive. How do I know? It is being done routinely.

The declared person is supposed to receive a copy of the declare. Remember, "If it isn't written, it isn't true"?

Following that, the declared person is supposed to have an impartial review of the justice action, a Review Comm Ev.

In practice, none of the above applies.

Just don't worry about it.

If my best friends ganged up on me to declare me an asshole or something worse, I would probably take note. When a bunch of duplicitous assholes declare themselves to be in charge of me, and declare me to be an unethical SOB with evil intentions, completely ignoring any contribution I have made to the cause, all I can do is thank the gods that they released me from trap.

You have been on the internet speaking out, speaking your mind, flawed though it may be (LOL).

Congratulations!

You are on your way to completing an actual Grade 0. Try not to harm anyone who shouldn't be harmed in the process. Keep your fixed ideas out of the process. Eventually, we hope, you will be complete with the Grade. Grade 0 is THE OT Grade.

Carry on, Lakey. Whether you earned a declare or not remains to be seen. Just because the church gave you one does not mean you have earned one. (Ambiguity intended.)

At any rate, carry on!

I hear you Ted! I don't give two hoots what C of S says or does, that isn't what's motivating me. I still have a comm line in with a family member who is in good standing. He doesn't want any trouble from C of S and if they have done everything they are supposed to do, this person says that reluctantly he will have to cut communications with me. However, if C of S has not done things per C of S policy, this person feels comfortable in continuing our friendship. If C of S calls him out for still communicating with me he can then invoke "If it isn't written it isn't true." He believes very strongly that that policy will protect him.

If C of S does issue a written Declare on me, he will have to break off communications with me but unless something in writing appears he is going to continue our friendship. You know the drill, he has friends and family still in and doesn't want to risk disconnection from them just to stay in touch with me. I think his approach is a practical solution to this situation.

Anyway, Ted, I thank you very much for taking the trouble to post all that you have on this topic. It should be useful to other people as well as myself.
Lakey
 
Re: Ken Ogger, The Pilot speaks from the dead

Thank you very much Anthony. I had read some of Ken's writings on the Internet in 2005 when I first started reading about C of S on the Internet. He seemed to be one of the better posters on Scientology and the current C of S. I'll pop over and take a lot at your site and will probably join up.
Lakey

Great. You go to: http://lists.worldtrans.org/mailman/listinfo/superscio

The first excerpt from the Pilot's fortnightly postings has already been made. Here is a preview:

************
Pilot'sPosts Z1

What Is Wrong With Confidentiality?

(From Post 2 - April 1997)

I think that the confidentiality is a mistake. I think it’s killing us (by which I mean the Scientologists). I think that it’s the strongest of the factors which are twisting the subject away from its original goals and making it into a fanatical sham.

But it is this specific point of reform which is going to be the hardest for the average Scientologist to swallow. Many of them can see the other outnesses and will agree with me on those points. But they have been so intensively hit with false information about the dangers of the upper level materials that they are terrified of them.

So let me get up here on the podium and try to wake some people up.

You don't teach people how to swim by making them terrified of the water. Imagine that they are not even allowed to see the water. It’s hidden in swimming pools that are kept in locked rooms and all you have are dire rumors about how people can drown and die if they even see a pool nothing to say of getting in one. Now, after paying a fortune, an instructor unlocks the door and tosses them in the water. And they are not even allowed to see anybody else swimming (they can't hear stories of other students doing the level and their difficulties and successes).

Have you ever seen somebody trying to teach a terrified child how to swim?

Of course there are going to be bad reactions if you make things so secret and convince everybody that this stuff is dangerous.

We have always had lots of advanced data from the 1950s which was available and was not marked confidential. Lots of stuff on past lives, implants, entities, GPMs, and what have you. The clear cog used to be common knowledge. Even one of the power processes ("What Is, What Isn't") is on a lower level tape (either "Suppressers" or "the Bad Auditor", I forget which one - they both cover not-isness and they used to be back to back on the old level 2 checksheets). A tape with lots of R6 data called "Study and End Words" was sometimes part of the old student hat.

People didn't get sick or upset from studying this stuff. Once in a rare while somebody did get sick if someone else was insisting on jamming some piece of tech down their throats, but that also happens with grade 2 (overts/withholds) and grade 4 (service facsimiles - making yourself right) type technology. At one time there was even a bulletin (or policy?) stating that it was gross out tech to tell a person that they had withholds outside of an auditing session.

So there are student and PC rules and stern lectures from the ethics officer to keep people from jamming bits of out-gradient tech down each others throats. That is needed. But it is all that is needed. You don't have to bury everything under a cloud of secrecy. The mind's protection is at maximum when people are quietly reading things.

I don't really think that people should make fun of each others religious beliefs. If things were reasonable, I would say that it’s not fair poking fun at incident 2 or at the book of Genesis or at any of the beliefs of other religions. But in this case, the OT 3 tee shirts and Xenu jokes and things are serving a very important purpose in demonstrating that knowledge of OT 3 is not dangerous nor does it make people sick.

It’s almost inconceivable that hearing truth could ever make anybody sick. If it did, it would be the exact opposite of what’s in the axioms of Scientology. Of course somebody might be emotionally upset from learning a sad or disturbing truth, but that's a totally different matter. And we know how to raise somebody's emotional tone in such cases, so we don't need to be afraid of it.

As to the liabilities of keeping things confidential, just look at what's happening on the Internet. Scientology's comm lines on the net are almost destroyed. Tremendous ill will has been generated. The Scientologists can't even argue or defend themselves because they can't talk about anything in the confidential materials and the critics keep singing Xenu songs and scaring the Scientologists away. Attempting to maintain confidentiality has put the Scientologists into a totally untenable position, having to fight without ever mentioning the thing that they are fighting about.

Scientologists, who are trained with TRs to confront just about anything, can't confront or handle a handful of jokers singing Xenu songs. Scientologists, who win through opening up communication lines, find themselves to be the greatest suppressers of free communication that the Internet has ever seen.

In the old days, before the clearing course and the introduction of confidentiality, the Briefing Course students used to chant implanted GPM end words at each other as part of their bull baiting while doing TRs. They had to do this because they were running implant platens on each other instead of doing them solo and they couldn't flinch at what the PC was running. They did just fine. I knew a few who had done this (it was only a little before my time) and they were in exceptionally good shape and had really fantastic TRs.

The whole business of confidentiality might have originally come about because any of the old time BC graduates could have just taken the clearing course platens and run them on themselves at home without paying for any other courses. And the average franchise, usually run by an exceptionally skilled old time auditor, would have found it easy to teach their PCs to run these platens after they finished getting audited on their grades.

Let me urge any Scientology loyalist who reads this to please sit down and reread the introduction to Dianetics 55 where Ron explains about the use of secrecy in cults.

The confidentiality has not served any useful purpose except to stick people with a mystery, and that is an overt.

----------

Here is a helpful quote from Ron:

Research and Discovery Series - New Volume 10 Page 731, in the lecture titled "Overt Acts, Motivators, and Deds" from the tech 88 lecture series:

"Religion is always different than truth. It has to be. Because the only way you can control a person is to lie to them." ... "When you find an individual is lying to you, you know that the individual is trying to control you". .. "Conversely, if you see an impulse on the part of a human being to control you, you know very well that that human being is lying to you. Not is just going to -- IS lying to you".

This volume is well worth having. Even though they covertly omitted a few of the hottest lectures (see Super Scio <31 of 32> for a complete list), the ones that are in the volume are the wildest things that the org has ever released, going far beyond "History of Man" and including lots of whole track and early research into entities (Nots).

ARC,

The Pilot
____________________________
relayed by Ant Phillips <[email protected]>
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: Ken Ogger, The Pilot speaks from the dead

Great. You go to: http://lists.worldtrans.org/mailman/listinfo/superscio

The first excerpt from the Pilot's fortnightly postings has already been made. Here is a preview:

************
Pilot'sPosts Z1

What Is Wrong With Confidentiality?

(From Post 2 - April 1997)

I think that the confidentiality is a mistake. I think it’s killing us (by which I mean the Scientologists). I think that it’s the strongest of the factors which are twisting the subject away from its original goals and making it into a fanatical sham.

But it is this specific point of reform which is going to be the hardest for the average Scientologist to swallow. Many of them can see the other outnesses and will agree with me on those points. But they have been so intensively hit with false information about the dangers of the upper level materials that they are terrified of them.

So let me get up here on the podium and try to wake some people up.

You don't teach people how to swim by making them terrified of the water. Imagine that they are not even allowed to see the water. It’s hidden in swimming pools that are kept in locked rooms and all you have are dire rumors about how people can drown and die if they even see a pool nothing to say of getting in one. Now, after paying a fortune, an instructor unlocks the door and tosses them in the water. And they are not even allowed to see anybody else swimming (they can't hear stories of other students doing the level and their difficulties and successes).

Have you ever seen somebody trying to teach a terrified child how to swim?

Of course there are going to be bad reactions if you make things so secret and convince everybody that this stuff is dangerous.

We have always had lots of advanced data from the 1950s which was available and was not marked confidential. Lots of stuff on past lives, implants, entities, GPMs, and what have you. The clear cog used to be common knowledge. Even one of the power processes ("What Is, What Isn't") is on a lower level tape (either "Suppressers" or "the Bad Auditor", I forget which one - they both cover not-isness and they used to be back to back on the old level 2 checksheets). A tape with lots of R6 data called "Study and End Words" was sometimes part of the old student hat.

People didn't get sick or upset from studying this stuff. Once in a rare while somebody did get sick if someone else was insisting on jamming some piece of tech down their throats, but that also happens with grade 2 (overts/withholds) and grade 4 (service facsimiles - making yourself right) type technology. At one time there was even a bulletin (or policy?) stating that it was gross out tech to tell a person that they had withholds outside of an auditing session.

So there are student and PC rules and stern lectures from the ethics officer to keep people from jamming bits of out-gradient tech down each others throats. That is needed. But it is all that is needed. You don't have to bury everything under a cloud of secrecy. The mind's protection is at maximum when people are quietly reading things.

I don't really think that people should make fun of each others religious beliefs. If things were reasonable, I would say that it’s not fair poking fun at incident 2 or at the book of Genesis or at any of the beliefs of other religions. But in this case, the OT 3 tee shirts and Xenu jokes and things are serving a very important purpose in demonstrating that knowledge of OT 3 is not dangerous nor does it make people sick.

It’s almost inconceivable that hearing truth could ever make anybody sick. If it did, it would be the exact opposite of what’s in the axioms of Scientology. Of course somebody might be emotionally upset from learning a sad or disturbing truth, but that's a totally different matter. And we know how to raise somebody's emotional tone in such cases, so we don't need to be afraid of it.

As to the liabilities of keeping things confidential, just look at what's happening on the Internet. Scientology's comm lines on the net are almost destroyed. Tremendous ill will has been generated. The Scientologists can't even argue or defend themselves because they can't talk about anything in the confidential materials and the critics keep singing Xenu songs and scaring the Scientologists away. Attempting to maintain confidentiality has put the Scientologists into a totally untenable position, having to fight without ever mentioning the thing that they are fighting about.

Scientologists, who are trained with TRs to confront just about anything, can't confront or handle a handful of jokers singing Xenu songs. Scientologists, who win through opening up communication lines, find themselves to be the greatest suppressers of free communication that the Internet has ever seen.

In the old days, before the clearing course and the introduction of confidentiality, the Briefing Course students used to chant implanted GPM end words at each other as part of their bull baiting while doing TRs. They had to do this because they were running implant platens on each other instead of doing them solo and they couldn't flinch at what the PC was running. They did just fine. I knew a few who had done this (it was only a little before my time) and they were in exceptionally good shape and had really fantastic TRs.

The whole business of confidentiality might have originally come about because any of the old time BC graduates could have just taken the clearing course platens and run them on themselves at home without paying for any other courses. And the average franchise, usually run by an exceptionally skilled old time auditor, would have found it easy to teach their PCs to run these platens after they finished getting audited on their grades.

Let me urge any Scientology loyalist who reads this to please sit down and reread the introduction to Dianetics 55 where Ron explains about the use of secrecy in cults.

The confidentiality has not served any useful purpose except to stick people with a mystery, and that is an overt.

----------

Here is a helpful quote from Ron:

Research and Discovery Series - New Volume 10 Page 731, in the lecture titled "Overt Acts, Motivators, and Deds" from the tech 88 lecture series:

"Religion is always different than truth. It has to be. Because the only way you can control a person is to lie to them." ... "When you find an individual is lying to you, you know that the individual is trying to control you". .. "Conversely, if you see an impulse on the part of a human being to control you, you know very well that that human being is lying to you. Not is just going to -- IS lying to you".

This volume is well worth having. Even though they covertly omitted a few of the hottest lectures (see Super Scio <31 of 32> for a complete list), the ones that are in the volume are the wildest things that the org has ever released, going far beyond "History of Man" and including lots of whole track and early research into entities (Nots).

ARC,

The Pilot
____________________________
relayed by Ant Phillips <[email protected]>

I agree with you that the confidentiality aspect for Scientology's upper levels is not necessary. I don't know why Hubbard introduced confidentiality starting with Power processing, Grade 5 and continuing through Grade 6, the Clearing Course and the OT Levels. Of course OT 3 had the most confidentiality of all.

The only reason I can see for Hubbard entering this arbitrary into his tech was to introduce mystery and dangle a carrot in front of Scientologists so as to enable C of S to charge more and rake in large sums of money.

In 2010 I got involved with a group of people who engaged in occult practice including hypnotherapy, Reiki, Pranic Healing, Angel readings, Egyptian Gong Therapy, Channeling, and many more of these practices. I became good friends with a woman who was an opinion leader in this group.

These people believe that each of us have Spiritual Team Mates who share our lives with us. They believe that we have angels who are looking out for us as well as demons who are harming us in our spaces. I began doing my healing massages on this circle of friends of about 35 people. All these people believe in past lives and believe that a lot of us knew each other before. They also all believe that it was possible for harmful entities to hang around in a person's space.

In the Fall of 2010, I took the plunge and attempted to run out a harmful entity which happened to surface when I was giving my friend a massage. She had no problem running it out. She then got me to use this technique on a circle of her friends. I was amazed that it was quite routine to handle these entities on non Scientologists. After experimenting with this phenomena for 2 to 3 months, I decided to stop doing it. I handled everything which came up on people without any major problems but I felt that I really did not know enough about what I was doing to use the technique on public people.

My point however is that none of this test sample of about 35 people showed any ill effects from handling harmful entities in the vicinity of their bodies. Quite the contrary, they all felt they had made gains and wanted more sessions.

All the points you make, Anthony, on why confidentiality has been a loser for C of S are valid points in my opinion. The confidentiality factor created mystery and as is common with groups using Hubbard Management Tech, it led to people spending more money on the confidential levels in the short term while in the long term it held C of S up to ridicule and made them the laughing stock of 99% of our culture. It is much easier to pin the label "cult" on a group which has confidential levels than a group whose information is totally open to the public, especially when that group is a religion.

Aside from their buying up buildings and remodeling them to a 5 star level of luxury, C of S is shriveling up as we speak. Membership is dropping rapidly and the palacial buildings are nearly empty. They do have lots of money and lots of celebrities involved but what were once the alleged goals of the "church" are no longer being pursued other than a token PR driven pursuit to trick the public. I believe along with you that confidentiality of materials has played a major role in C of S being reduced to what it has now become.
Lakey
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

The state of California has long been governed by liberals - and pisses away tax money. California is headed for BK.

Good on Aplle for taking a LEGAL way to avoid paying California taxes.

Good on Nevada for having a friendly business climate as California continues to drive businesses out of the state with their anti-business position.
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

The state of California has long been governed by liberals - and pisses away tax money. California is headed for BK.

Good on Aplle for taking a LEGAL way to avoid paying California taxes.

Good on Nevada for having a friendly business climate as California continues to drive businesses out of the state with their anti-business position.

98990_600.jpg


steve-jobs-moses.jpg
 
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