The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

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lkwdblds

Crusader
I love the Titanic analogy.

I can appreciate the sentiment, but that's a bit like asking a new captain to step aboard the Titanic. Bold though he may be, there is a certain outcome built into the incident. :omg: Such a leader would also have to contend with a multitude of captain's chair captains who felt they knew best on how to right the ship. Once again... :omg:

Ted, I love the Titanic analogy!! How totally descriptive and completely accurate! Von Staufenberg and those who gave their lives attempting to kill Hitler realized they were on a rapidly sinking Titanic and tried to do something about it. If successsful, they were going to try to surrender to the Western allies and then hoped to encourage the West to team with them in the struggle against the Soviet Union. I think their response and actions were the perfect reply to save a sinking ship. They arrived at the ultimate and only possible way to save their country from oblivion. Too bad that it didn't work. They really came close.

Do you think that any inspired plan could be devised to save the sinking ship of organized Scientology? What do you think should be done, just let it run aground and then clean up the pieces or what? By the way, even though the Scientology ship is in a condition similar to the Titanic after colliding with the iceberg, C of S's public promo is still painting the picture of not just expansion but exponentially increasing expansion. This is a sort of a Wizard of Oz phenomena. They are still very good at that.
Lakey
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Hey Lakey, thanks for your understanding...I'll try not to rant like that too often! I haven't even gotten into "study tech" yet...:whistling: :D ! Thanks for your very kind words about this post, and for not taking any offense where non was meant...:)

Say, am I Sweetness and Light or am I Sweet and Low? (LOL!) I know I've always wanted to be taller, but...my button on that is mostly flat, thank you! :p

It could be worse, Sweet and Low is reached for at every meal by coffee and tea lovers. I took the liberty of erasing my typo error. Its funny how its harder for men to multitask than women, i.e. trying to write a reply while thinking about some new post. I guess it is out TR0, I'm sorry:confused2:

Hopefully, I am a pure and natural sweetener (think honey, bees, and flowers blooming!) and not an artificial sweetener (chemicals, bad for us, yuck!)

I'm just having a little fun with you here, I grant you your beingness and you grant me mine, which is why we are such good pals! :D

Slips of the tongue are sometimes really funny, like here! Happy Halloween to you and your family, and to everyone. :)

Thanks! Those finks, my wife and Son, want to turn off the lights and pretend we are out but I wont have it and will buy and dole out the treats.

I think it's o.k. to like Ron for what you see as the good he has done for you and others. Also to be grateful for any good you realized or gains you got from your membership in Scientology. Every one's experience is so subjective and personal. I also understand the Ex's who are just flaming ranters and critics, let's grant them their beingness, too! :thumbsup:

I agree totally with your above paragraph. Back in February, I was put in touch with a former CCLA staff member who I knew fairly well and we started communicating by email. Whenever, I mentioned that I had wins, she would just fly off the handle and explode with a viscious tirade. Her remarks were something like, "So you had wins while others died, how dare you mention those wins and pay them any credence! You need to wake up, there is no room but to totally hate LRH, anything else is despicable! After 3 posts, she blew me off. Someone such as she is not capable of granting beingness to anyone who holds a viewpoint that is not in lock step with hers. It is really sad to see this. She was a spunky eager beaver type, optimistic 21 year old when I knew her, and now, she just turned 60 and is hateful and bitter. I am really sorry to see this

Ron in person could be a very charismatic, charming and persuasive guy (as are many sociopaths, which is the way I read his character). I've watched all the tapes and heard most of the lectures that are available to public. He was a very colorful character who made his own path in life and played by his own rules...I can relate to him as a pirate and a rebel... :D And yet I'm very glad that I never drank the kool-aide.

That Ron's behavior with others degenerated over time seems clear, I think drink, drug use, mental and physical health issues all took their toll. Gadfly is right, it's important to as-is Ron and everything else about Scientology. It's like sifting the wheat from the chaff, for some folks it is more wheat than chaff, and for others, it's mostly chaff.

I would never tell the Freezoners and Indies who are practicing their beliefs (and hopefully their principles) to stop, and I don't want to impinge on them. They are within their rights to think and live as they will, so long as they are harming none. :thumbsup: (The ancient reade.)

Besides not harming, one the positive side many are making case gains and auditing others to case gains. If they think Red on White tech is working for them, more power to them.

I think the image of Ron was a really cool image to follow for a lot of young guys, and I really understand how if you only look at the PR, how Scientology just seems wonderful. But sadly, we know that's not the reality of the organization, and we also know more and more about the truth of Ron's real life, too, beyond the glossy world savior PR image Scientology tries to sell the world (literally!).

I can understand how hard it would be to give up a sense of hero worship after modeling your life's actions on him and his teachings, when you are thinking that he is SUCH a good guy.

My concern is for the true believers and loyal officers who are in Ron's valence so much that they lose their sense of up and down, right and wrong, what is in their own best interest and that of their loved ones... A lifetime of "What would Ron do?" pretty well induces and fosters the surrendering their own identity to his valence.

I'm not saying that you ever did that Lakey, but for sure I have known Scientologists who just literally worship the man as if he were the second coming, and he himself liked to promote an image of himself as Maitreya, the Buddha that is to come. This was just a bamboozle, as far as I can see. Unless he really believed it about himself, which is more evidence of his having his own psychotic breaks with reality, which others close to him have reported.

He was a Boy Scout and an Eagle Scout, as such he did learn a very strong moral code, and was taught to help others daily, wherever possible. (I was a girl scout- "Do a good turn daily" was our motto.) So it's not all black or white, there are a lot of shadings of gray, especially for those who were in back in the "good old days" (?!?) when things were a tad smaller, saner, more fun, more experimental, an adventure, whatever, until they weren't anymore.

LRH seemed to be a combination of P.T. Barnum, Howard Hughes, Captain Ahab, Blackbird the Pirate, Buddha and Mark Twain. It was quite a mix! As long as the Howard Hughes, Buddha and Mark Twain components were dominant, he was great. The P.T. Barnum elements were constant and always there. As he aged, the Captain Ahab and Blackbird components began to assert themselves and he ran aground.
Lakey
 
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looker

Patron Meritorious
CCLA 1972-73-74

In 1972-73 I went to CCLA to be with SO friends from Stevens Creek. I was shocked I was offered 3 SO female members for sex to join the CCLA staff, But they had to call their 2Ds to see if it was OK first. I didn't accept. As it was out ethics, no matter what the cost to saving planet earth.

Then a Gay black SO self proclaimed actor came into the room and threw me across the bed I was making, onto the floor, his face inches away, and asked if I was interested in some after morning excitement. He had an hour or so before he started post if I were interested,,.. I said NO!! I was shocked in utter disbelief.

What the fuck? I was in a Sea Org house for CCLA the most ethical place I could be.

Now I'm being offered sex with married and engaged SO women to sign the Billion year SO contract? Offered Gay sex!!?? WTF!! Keep your TRs in, whooaah!!

Flew back home and had many many thoughts of how LRH would not allow this and condemn it.....if he knew.

Went back to Stevens Creek and continued my courses not saying a word...
After all Travolta and Presley were just coming on lines and the CCLA thing was just some surreal temporary oversight or aberration. It would get handled wouldn't it?
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
Ted, I love the Titanic analogy!! How totally descriptive and completely accurate! Von Staufenberg and those who gave their lives attempting to kill Hitler realized they were on a rapidly sinking Titanic and tried to do something about it. If successsful, they were going to try to surrender to the Western allies and then hoped to encourage the West to team with them in the struggle against the Soviet Union. I think their response and actions were the perfect reply to save a sinking ship. They arrived at the ultimate and only possible way to save their country from oblivion. Too bad that it didn't work. They really came close.

Do you think that any inspired plan could be devised to save the sinking ship of organized Scientology? What do you think should be done, just let it run aground and then clean up the pieces or what? By the way, even though the Scientology ship is in a condition similar to the Titanic after colliding with the iceberg, C of S's public promo is still painting the picture of not just expansion but exponentially increasing expansion. This is a sort of a Wizard of Oz phenomena. They are still very good at that.
Lakey


The church has expanded its real estate. Maybe their stats are just computer models like those used to explain the global warming ruse.

Your friend's position is representative of a portion of the field. What portion I do not know, but the field is certainly dirtier than it has ever been. One way to clean it up is to find out what people want, then help them get it. If they want no scientology, help them get it. You could do that with your friend above. LRH and the church made "the tech" all important; the individuals that delivered it were made into nothing. But "the tech" is nothing without the people. So, be one of those people that others will remember because you were so damn special, or helpful, or whatever. You don't have to interpose "the tech" between you and someone else. I use the word "you" generally, not specifically.

Right now the FZ feeds off some of that field that still wants scientology, but does not want the church. Even though FZ fees are less than Flag, that is still a huge drain on church income. The FZ isn't going to go away. With the most experienced auditors no longer in, who will do the church delivery? How will you present DMSMH, your main public ambassador that is 60 years old, to a modern public? What new publics will come walking in past the Anon pickets, negative press, and TV?

If I were still running a Mission I would close its doors and operate out of my home. There would be many advantages to doing that. The church can't think in those terms. They will be compelled to build up to critical mass before the flow of pretended expansion and property buildup naturally reverses on itself.

The most brilliant plan is already in place and functioning. Diversify from centralized, authoritarian management, clean up the dirty field, seek justice through the court systems, salvage the original materials.

We aren't getting any younger. Hopefully, there will be someone around who knows what an F/N and release looks like so the experience can be passed on to others.
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Quite a story!

In 1972-73 I went to CCLA to be with SO friends from Stevens Creek. I was shocked I was offered 3 SO female members for sex to join the CCLA staff, But they had to call their 2Ds to see if it was OK first. I didn't accept. As it was out ethics, no matter what the cost to saving planet earth.

Then a Gay black SO self proclaimed actor came into the room and threw me across the bed I was making, onto the floor, his face inches away, and asked if I was interested in some after morning excitement. He had an hour or so before he started post if I were interested,,.. I said NO!! I was shocked in utter disbelief.

What the fuck? I was in a Sea Org house for CCLA the most ethical place I could be.

Now I'm being offered sex with married and engaged SO women to sign the Billion year SO contract? Offered Gay sex!!?? WTF!! Keep your TRs in, whooaah!!

Flew back home and had many many thoughts of how LRH would not allow this and condemn it.....if he knew.

Went back to Stevens Creek and continued my courses not saying a word...
After all Travolta and Presley were just coming on lines and the CCLA thing was just some surreal temporary oversight or aberration. It would get handled wouldn't it?

Looker, that's quite a story. I never ran into any wild out 2D stuff such as that. Did you go and see the MAA, Margaret George? I was there all of 1972 and nearly all of 1973. I am just curious who you are. I remember a blonde girl came to the Org with a black boyfriend around 1972. her name was Debbie Atkins, that wouldn't be you would it? If you are willing, drop me a personal message and tell me your name. I knew everyone on staff there, I had to because I desbursed everyone's pay every week, there were no exceptions.
Lakey
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Thanks Ted for this post.

The church has expanded its real estate. Maybe their stats are just computer models like those used to explain the global warming ruse.

Your friend's position is representative of a portion of the field. What portion I do not know, but the field is certainly dirtier than it has ever been. One way to clean it up is to find out what people want, then help them get it. If they want no scientology, help them get it. You could do that with your friend above. LRH and the church made "the tech" all important; the individuals that delivered it were made into nothing. But "the tech" is nothing without the people. So, be one of those people that others will remember because you were so damn special, or helpful, or whatever. You don't have to interpose "the tech" between you and someone else. I use the word "you" generally, not specifically.

The individuals who delivered the tech might be made into nothing by upper management but the public and staff receiving their services usually acknowledged them in their success stories. You know, "I want to thank my auditor and the tech sec and all the wonderful people who saw that I received perfect service but most of all I want to thank LRH and his wonderful tech, etc...." That was pretty standard and it was usually given in the courseroom and at graduation before a fairly large crowd so in the minds of the public and staff receiving the service, the individuals were appreciated but certainly not by much of upper management.

Right now the FZ feeds off some of that field that still wants scientology, but does not want the church. Even though FZ fees are less than Flag, that is still a huge drain on church income. The FZ isn't going to go away. With the most experienced auditors no longer in, who will do the church delivery? How will you present DMSMH, your main public ambassador that is 60 years old, to a modern public? What new publics will come walking in past the Anon pickets, negative press, and TV?

If I were still running a Mission I would close its doors and operate out of my home. There would be many advantages to doing that. The church can't think in those terms. They will be compelled to build up to critical mass before the flow of pretended expansion and property buildup naturally reverses on itself.

The most brilliant plan is already in place and functioning. Diversify from centralized, authoritarian management, clean up the dirty field, seek justice through the court systems, salvage the original materials.

We aren't getting any younger. Hopefully, there will be someone around who knows what an F/N and release looks like so the experience can be passed on to others.

Thanks again for your insights regarding this matter, they are very good.
Lakey
 
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Must have been a real shock for you

In 1972-73 I went to CCLA to be with SO friends from Stevens Creek. I was shocked I was offered 3 SO female members for sex to join the CCLA staff, But they had to call their 2Ds to see if it was OK first. I didn't accept. As it was out ethics, no matter what the cost to saving planet earth.

Then a Gay black SO self proclaimed actor came into the room and threw me across the bed I was making, onto the floor, his face inches away, and asked if I was interested in some after morning excitement. He had an hour or so before he started post if I were interested,,.. I said NO!! I was shocked in utter disbelief.

What the fuck? I was in a Sea Org house for CCLA the most ethical place I could be.

Now I'm being offered sex with married and engaged SO women to sign the Billion year SO contract? Offered Gay sex!!?? WTF!! Keep your TRs in, whooaah!!

Flew back home and had many many thoughts of how LRH would not allow this and condemn it.....if he knew.

Went back to Stevens Creek and continued my courses not saying a word...
After all Travolta and Presley were just coming on lines and the CCLA thing was just some surreal temporary oversight or aberration. It would get handled wouldn't it?

:ohmy: Ay Dios Mio! I have heard personal stories like this, especially about the Sea Org, back in the 70's and 80's. I've heard it summed up as a lot of bed-hopping. :blush: I just wonder if this was a local phenomenon, or more widespread. Glad you escaped with your virtue intact, many didn't. Hope you never signed that contract. :no:
 

looker

Patron Meritorious
Yeah after thinking about it more I think it was voluntary and selective by the individual SO member. Not wide spread. When young green and a zealot trying to meet an unreal recruitment goal I guess there are lots of ways to justify making it go right.

But my gosh I couldn't give my girlfriend or fiance the OK to sleep with some guy for a recruitment stat no matter how high the group ARC and tone 40 was.:unsure:
 
In 1972-73 I went to CCLA to be with SO friends from Stevens Creek. I was shocked I was offered 3 SO female members for sex to join the CCLA staff, But they had to call their 2Ds to see if it was OK first. I didn't accept. As it was out ethics, no matter what the cost to saving planet earth.

Hell, all I got was a handshake from Woodruff when I joined mission staff at SOC! :bigcry:


Mark A. Baker
 

FinallyFree

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hell, all I got was a handshake from Woodruff when I joined mission staff at SOC! :bigcry:


Mark A. Baker

Be glad Woodruff didn't give you more. He slammed a 19 year old 4'6" girl up off the floor and against an air-conditioning wall unit while he was the ED LA Day. Oh yeah and she was the Ethics Officer BTW.

Nice from an OT 8, Perm Class 6 huh?
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
You seem to have a lot of attention on "what Marty thinks". You might want to look at that, Z.


Mark A. Baker

I have. In the marketplace of ideas Marty's selling snake oil and I think it's important to read his advertising. I'm into truth in advertising.

Zinj
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
Be glad Woodruff didn't give you more. He slammed a 19 year old 4'6" girl up off the floor and against an air-conditioning wall unit while he was the ED LA Day. Oh yeah and she was the Ethics Officer BTW.

Nice from an OT 8, Perm Class 6 huh?


How about a letter writing campaign on things like this? It would be something similar to Knowledge Reports written from the field, not one or two letters but many.

Dear (Scientology Person):

I read on the internet (or heard from) (or saw) that you (overt).

It seems an odd thing to do. What's the story on that?

Sincerely,
 

Blue Spirit

Silver Meritorious Patron
The Idea Makes Sense

How about a letter writing campaign on things like this? It would be something similar to Knowledge Reports written from the field, not one or two letters but many.

Dear (Scientology Person):

I read on the internet (or heard from) (or saw) that you (overt).

It seems an odd thing to do. What's the story on that?

Sincerely,

It has been my long time understanding that handwritten letters count for much more than emails.

Ted, your idea is an excellent one and should be followed up, hopefully with some organizations and addresses, etc.
 
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Blue Spirit

Silver Meritorious Patron
Inmates Running the Asylum

Be glad Woodruff didn't give you more. He slammed a 19 year old 4'6" girl up off the floor and against an air-conditioning wall unit while he was the ED LA Day. Oh yeah and she was the Ethics Officer BTW.
Nice from an OT 8, Perm Class 6 huh?

The inmates have been running that Asylum for a long time. :omg:
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
It has been my long time understanding that handwritten

letters count for much more than emails.

Ted, your idea is an excellent one and should be followed up, hopefully with

some organizations and addresses, etc.


John Woodruff was used in the example. Where was he last known?

Sample letter:

Dear John Woodruff:

While we have never met, nor have we worked closely together, I always had a favorable impression of you stemming from the time you worked in the Mission Office with J.C. Hughes. He spoke highly of your association and work therein.

A few years later, I was particularly impressed with your speaking out at the second Field/Mission Holder meeting at Flag, in 1981. If I recall, you were hesitant to speak up yet, after some encouragement, you did. This effort to express and clear your BP in such a forum was a bold and honest move.

Now, I hear that one time when you were the ED LA Day you slammed a 19 year old 4'6" girl up off the floor against an air-conditioning wall unit. She was, at the time, the Ethics Officer.

Since this seems so bizarre I though I'd give you this communication and ask what's up with that?
 

FoTi

Crusader
Hector Carmona was at Nancy Many's book signing.

Hector was the best Reg ever. Never any pressure....just ARC. He was magic. Haven't seen him in 30 years. I wish I would have been at the signing to say hi. I hope he comes on ESMB and starts posting.

If you're lurking, Hector......:wave:
 
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