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Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

For anyone interested, I have written an article on the blog part of my profile called "Tricks, Lies and Scientology Magick." I wasn't really a forum post, more of an essay. I am trying to figure out where else I could post it. http://www.forum.exscn.net/entry.php?874-Tricks-Lies-and-Scientology-Magick

:)

Edit: The essay is too boring for the thread because for me the thread is a conversation and sharing whereas the article is TMI for the thread, gets into the abstract question "what is the tech?" more than most would be interested in.
 
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Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

CO2 and I have conferred on this and we sort of agreed that when we hit two million views, we'll call it quits. About a week ago, it was pretty dead on the thread and I didn't post for 4 days or so and that was going to do it for me but then Mer showed up and then Just Shiela and some others joined in and breathed new life into the thread. There's an awful lot of good stuff on this thread for newbies who have recently left C of S. Also, there is plenty for lurker types who want to find out more about C of S. If I was a public person who knew very little about the subject, I would be very curious as to why a lot of people who were well intended, wanted to help make a better society and who weren't stupid sunk so much of their time, their work and their cash into a group such as C of S. Being one such person, I keep trying to shed light on that subject. I don't see too many others doing this. That may contribute heavily to my portion of the thread.

CO2 is another story, he wasn't taken in for very long by C of S and when they crossed a certain line, he quickly exited. He is a brilliant guy who thinks outside the box but if something inside the box makes sense, he will embrace that tenet as well. He introduced the posting of incredible photgraphs and videos onto the thread and he has a lot of contacts in many diverse fields, particularly in rock music and among celebrities. Many of his views having to do with the art of living a meaningful life are invaluable and his many contacts, his photos, his videos, his inside stories concerning celebrities and other notable people, contributed very heavily to the growth of this thread.

Basically, 2 very different personalities can generate power between themselves in the manner of Laurel and Hardy, Lucy and Desi, Abbot and Costello, etc. IMHO Most of the material on this huge thread is good solid material and has value.

I regularly read many other threads for years and contributed heavily by posting on them. In more recent years, I don't find the value in most of the threads that once existed. Gadfly, who was excellent hasn't posted for a long time, Vinaire, who I found educational and enjoyable has moved on to Facebook. When I posted on other threads, I was either ignored or hated. I am disliked because I like to track the stats of the thread - people go absolutely crazy on this subject. I think it is because C o S put so much emphasis on stats.

My biggest reason for not participating on other threads any longer is because of the personal attacks made if a person states that he got some benefit from some of C of S's processes. I used to say that any bad group, even an evil group does some good things. I cited Nazi Germany as an example and said that they gave us the Volkswagen bug, one of the greatest cars of all time, they built the first freeways, they promoted classical music and then the old cliche', they made the trains and street cars run on time. People hated that example. I said it tongue in cheek but all those examples are true! Of course in Germany, public transportation ALWAYS ran on time, the Nazis were merely continuing an existing tradition, but the other items, such as the VW car, were truly founded by the Nazis.

I don't know what is good about the KKK. It would be real hard to think up any good things which they brought into being. If I had to come up with something, I would say that on Halloween, they would not have to buy a costume, they could just wear their KKK outfits, one could also say that they attend church every week but some others might not consider that a good thing.
Lakey

The computer programmer in me, as I was reading this thread and getting to know it, sort of wishes that if you are going to put it to rest, put it somewhere like your own website if esmb has a way to export all the articles. I could certainly help with that if you were interested. The only reason is this. It IS such neat material and the fear would be that if esmb were to ever shut down all the material would be gone. Or that esmb would archive it and it would get buried away rarely to be seen.

What I like here is the comaraderie. I like that no one seems to be attacking and that everyone let's everyone be whoever they are. I myself don't have any use for the tech but I doubt that this means I should attack those who feel they had gains. I mostly like that we had a life there, there are memories, good and bad, and we can still get together and drink a beer over it, and laugh, and remember.
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Yesterday I was on lermanet and saw that an article I wrote in the 90s, under my full name, had been sitting there for years. I had no idea I had been 'out' all that time! I do sort of remember doing it, but I never remembered publishing widely. Anyway, based on that, I decided to just change my screen name. If you liked mer, you can still talk to her. It was a childhood nickname after all. Otherwise I am just going by my real name. Unfortunately I'm an academic so it's possible that those searching me on Google for an academic article will find me here or on lermanet. But since I am out of work anyway and without much future in academia as well as in web development it's a moot point.

:) BTW I am working on the next installment for this thread! Yay! cya all soon.
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Look forward to reading more from you, specially about AAC.
Don't recall many have posted about that although I know quite a
few who were there but I never thought to ask them much about those times. Beautiful new avatar!

Thank you. Feels a bit too too....but it was 38 years ago so I suppose I can look at it and it's someone else!

I am working on AAC now and can post about Venezuela and OT stuff at AOLA later.
It should be out sometime tonight.....
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Thank you. Feels a bit too too....but it was 38 years ago so I suppose I can look at it and it's someone else!

I am working on AAC now and can post about Venezuela and OT stuff at AOLA later.
It should be out sometime tonight.....

the photo may be 38 years old but your writing shows the beauty and vitality of youth remains within...
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Maria at the AAC

My mother-in-law was dying of cancer. Since leaving Miami org I had been taking care of her. We'd arrived at her home near Christmas time 1980, having blown at the end of November. Frankly it was weird, but in a good way, to be around all these folks who had never heard the words out-ethics or Comm Ev or SP.

It was hard because I don't think that Jeff's family thought that we had changed our belief system. I think they thought we only left staff because Jeff's mother was sick and she needed him. Jeff's sister was a born-again Christian. While she could tolerate Jeff since he was her blood relation, she didn't trust me past her nose. This meant that she was always coming over every day at breakfast, lunch, dinner to assert her control over mom's house even though we were there. Jeff had gotten a job at his family's retread shop helping out his brother Chip who since died. I was home with his mother and ended up taking care of her all day long except when Jeff's sister appeared.

I felt sort of useless there actually.

Meanwhile, the RTC did find us eventually after some time passed. I am not sure now if I went to AAC in 83 or 84. Jeff's mom died in 84; I've just checked the obit. And when I went to Int she was not long for this world. But I think I traveled while she was still very sick but not yet deceased. Since Jeff was out working and I was the one with time to kill, I was the one who got the joy of speaking to RTC when they called. I was truly the wimpiest creature in my conversations with them, yes, I gave a bit of push back but not very much. Obviously they thought I was folding otherwise why keep pounding on me? I was scared, and completely terrified of being declared, and completely unhappy that I had been treated the way I had. I was burned out and certainly did not want to go back to the Miami org but at the same time I wanted the threat of declare and the FL bill to go away.

My contact at the RTC, the genuises of Scn who were going to make it all go away, was Gary Klinger. He was very smooth over the phone. He told me there was a squirrel group in CA that had formed, the AAC. At first he didn't mention Mayo. It's obvious to me why. I had really appreciated Mayos and all that David and Julie had done for the church. I viewed them as "beautiful people." So to open up his proposal as a chance to bring David's evil enterprise down was probably not going to be a pitch I'd go for straight off the bat. In fact, never in those two or three weeks of prodding were the Mayos particularly criticized. The focus was AAC, out-tech etc. If RTC had started by giving me a R/D of how bad the Mayos were I think I would have hung up the phone.

Instead, over a period of days and weeks, Klinger talked to me about the tech, about out-tech, about the squirrels, about AAC, about my chance to "make things go right."

What a vague statement that is!! To make things go right means just about anything. It means, ok, were are in a situation, this is how we want it to play out, make it happen! And irregardless of who it hurts or if it's evil.

I was really sort of on the fence about going but I guess I was an easy mark and in a couple of weeks I gave in and decided to go. I've never really liked controversy. It's one of the things I like about this thread. We are hanging out here on the beach as the sun goes down acting silly, remembering exploits, philosophizing and anything else in between. So this visit to AAC made me VERY VERY nervous. I was going but I hoped I didn't actually have to do anything. The problem was, even if I did nothing I knew that I was basically a plant. And being a plant meant I really was doing something.

My mother-in-law was very sick and I was taking care of her so I wasn't going to be able to do what Klinger wanted just yet. At some point Jeff's sister got a nurse to come and help, providing me a gap where I could travel. It was in this time that Gary was constantly calling me on the phone, a couple of times a day sometimes, sometimes skipping a day. I would speak in hushed tones. I was surrounded by wogs. No doubt the Baptist sister-in-law had all her suspicions confirmed by my whispering and skulking around in corners with the phone. I must be whispering into the phone plotting Jeff's mother's death and imagining all the money I could steal from her will to give to Scientology!!

I was sneaking about with the phone because there was no way that the family would understand a word I was saying without thinking I sounded bonkers - all that commlines, squirrels, SPs, the tech, arcx's and so on was just gobbledegook to a wog. Tensions were very high in the house. Jeff's mom was dying. I was sneaking around talking to distant Scientologists who, it was assumed, were orchestrating my actions. I had been very close to my mother-in-law and it really bothered me that she was dying. In just those few months since arriving to her home I'd spent almost every waking minute with her. This included watching every John Wayne picture ever made, soap operas every afternoon, etc. Things that on my own I'd not run to do then. Not that I don't appreciate Johnny boy. So I was defiant of the accusing stares and at that time did not see why or how anyone would be offended by my being a Scientologist. By the way, I just now am feeling a bit confused and wondering if I got the date wrong concerning my departure from the Church. I said it was 1980. But I think it was winter of 82 only because Peach died a little more than a year later in 84. And I think I was in Venezuela in 1980. Before writing the Venezuela bit I will check my old passport which I still have. It has all the stamped dates for those travels outside the country and it will help me pinpoint the dates for AOLA too. And I can fix any wrong dates and mark them in red in the earlier posts. (I don't have Lakey's memory! So sad!)

The phone calling went on for a couple of weeks at most before I caved and decided, ok, I will go out to California. I still had aspirations of being involved with Scientology. I still believed in the tech. In the end this is what forced me to give in to RTC. Finally I agreed to do it in exchange for not being declared an SP and for a percentage reduction of my FL bill which Miami org would supposedly agree to. I was able to arrange contacts with AAC through Mission Holder and FSM Peter Scupham, who I mentioned before. I'd been in touch with him while still at Miami so this was not hard to do. I don't remember if Gary arranged that or not. If Gary suggested Peter's name or not. If Peter was involved with Gary or not. I know that Peter was involved with Mithoff as an FSM and connected to him at the AAC. And Peter really did leave Scientology and never went back. He's into other things now according to his website that I posted before.

I don't have the foggiest recollection of the flight out to CA. Did I go right to Santa Barbara or did I go to LA and Gary drove me to Santa Barbara. I think the latter. The first memory I have is of getting in a nondescript subcompact car with Gary. I found him a very weird-looking fellow. His skin was sort of terrible and he had glasses on. He reminded me a little of something slimy, his skin was greasy. There was not too much to him. He reminded me of a chameleon or rubbery grasshopper (the longer fingers if I recall and the spindly wiry body). He was all business, introduced himself, told me about the AAC, that Mayo ran it, told me about people I might meet. I don't think that as a visitor to AAC he expected that I would be interacted with Mayo on a personal basis where I was in the inner circle. He never intimated that I should try to get close to David or Julie; maybe he understood enough about AAC structure to see that it would be a gradual process for me at the AAC. But I do think that he expected that I'd have a shot at something, at least intelligence gathering, because of the prior connection to David when I trained on the Sunshine R/D pilot at int out at Gilman Hot Springs. I don't know what they call it now. (I'd rather never visit any Scientology websites so I never do. When I tried to click on info for the Going Clear movie I noticed (after clicking on it by accident) that Scientology has purchased a Google ad that appears at the top of the first page before ANY other results display.

I got to Santa Barbara. Not sure how it happened or who arranged it but a very nice lady named Hannah was putting me up, along with other AAC people. Hannah related to the Warner Bros. heirs or married to someone related. Funny, I won a writing award years later sponsored by the heir to Warner Bros. It was a very nice house. But first, before being taken over there, my first stop was the AAC. It was a nice location with a sort of barn wood/drift wood facade like you'd see in some business developments. I was a large space. There were offices along at least one side and a large central area with some desks, files, and shelving. Most of the activity seemed to be happening in this open area. The side offices were being used for auditing, c/sing, interviews, and private offices. Everyone was super nice and almost immediately I was whisked into a room to be interviewed so I could be audited. I imagine it's possible that if I had stayed that David or Julie would have been my auditors. There is no way to know. I was asked a bunch of personal questions typical of an interview, never treated with suspicion. At that time I remember I was having 2D problems with Jeff and when asked about those things I was a bit down tone, sort of down on the 2D as as general practice. LOL.

We all went to eat and a lot of very nice people who I don't remember (maybe they will show up here sometime) talked to me and introduced themselves and made me completely at home. My entire trip out there has almost no technical or admin or ethics components. It was all just a human connection that occurred, with really nice people who meant me no harm. I saw the first day, immediately, that there were no SPs here as I had been assured.

That night I was put up in Hannah's place with others. There was as very ill woman there with a bladder infection and it kept me up, causing me to pace a bit. I decided I could not stay that same day and had called Gary to pull me out. I was naive enough not to realize that of course he was going to create a scene, make me look like a plant to the AAC to divert attention from the real plant. I knew he had another BIG plant since he told me so. But he didn't tell me who. So I couldn't sleep that night. I knew that I could not let anyone at the AAC waste even one more minute on me, audit me, buy me lunch, give me a place to sleep, nothing, because I knew that these were nice people and I was there on false pretenses and needed to leave them to go about their business. I had decided that if these were SPs, ok, so was I.

By the way, as I have been writing this I got messages I do not know how to deal with from my spyware program, malwarebytes. The message was an IP address. I don't know if that means that an external IP address connected to my machine or if it simply tried. I have to check the logs. LOL. Not trying to be paranoid but it is funny since I've never seen that message. Perhaps it's a search for dirt. Perhaps it's nothing at all. :biggrin: While I am a software coder my area of specialization is not in the area of intrusion handling.

The next day Hannah was a doll (very attractive and zen person!) She made me tea and treated me as an honored guest. I left that same day. I hope it's not disappointing that I have only maybe 48 hours or less to recount. I was not willing to stay another day. I realized that the AAC folks would resent me but I was not going to give them more to resent. I don't understand why it never occurred to someone that a plant wouldn't just show up- for a day or two and leave suddenly. But Mithoff probably controlled that story and made sense of it for them all such that Maria was a plant and it all made some sort of sense. I was just relieved that I retrieved NO information and that I was never privy to any. That is what I wanted!

I met Gary in a hotel as I explained in an earlier post. He took up maybe an hour or more trying to handle me to stay, threatening that my spiritual future was in jeopardy, etc. At this point he was no longer the geeky looking creepy guy. Now that I was no longer going to cooperate he was a bit more sinister looking, colder, and just looking at him scared me. Here was a guy who could not really do much to me because I'd already called home to Jeff and told him I was coming home and why, I was not SO and could not merely be put into an RPF dungeon. He really could not keep me and there was nothing stopping me from screaming if he tried something. While it was not a public space, the hotel room was one of those cheap hotels where you can hear people creaking about in the next room. I did consider that if he came close to me physically in any way I would scream.

In any case I signed the papers, he was satisfied, and I called a cab to take me to the airport. At the airport I saw Rachel Welch standing near her luggage right in public stretching out as if she was a lioness. She was quite gorgeous, really did remind me of a wild, untameable creature. An amazon. She was not a small or demure personage! She was larger than life and I would have thought so even if I had not known she was Rachel Welch. I saw another star at the airport too but I'll tell about that later since it was during my AOLA trip.

I flew home very depressed. I was depressed I did not stay at AAC with those lovely people. I was down on myself for having hurt them. I now know that since Mithoff was involved with RTC and coordinating things with them, if I had turned myself in to AAC and tried to stay Mithoff would have most likely handled that one and it would not have gone in my favor.

I was happy though that I had not given RTC a thing and that I was alive and that AAC could continue functioning. I did know there was a plant and I contacted Scupham right away upon arriving home to let him know what I knew. I tried very hard to convince him of what I was saying and to tell him about Gary. He kept cutting me off, calling me names, and basically told me I was lying and that I was persona non-grata. I felt even more devastated but I hoped that Peter (Scupham) would at least tell SOMEONE of what I was saying, even if he told them it was BS at least they would have a possible suspicion to work with. He cut off the phone call, hung up on me.

A few days later all the letters began to arrive. Letters from the Venezuela org which I had helped found (and still part of CoS), from the people there who had been my friends, letters from the AAC people too. The letters all said similar things, that I was an SP, that I was being disconnected from, to never contact them again, to express their disgust with me and their hatred. I threw away all the letters the same day after reading most of them. I did not read all of them because I was so worn out and demoralized I could not keep reading.

I can only assume that Gary was now engaging in a dead-agenting campaign such that both CoS AND the free zone thought I was an SP. LOLOL.


So there it is, my very brief foray with the AAC along with a glimpse of Rachel Welch.
 
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Leland

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

WoW.....A spy....a Mata Hari.....for RTC no less. :biggrin:

Thanks so much for the post....very interesting.:ohmy:

"Arm twisting" (to put it mildly) by the Cult.....really sucks. :angry:

Even if you were somewhat a marshmallow to start.....you ended it, yourself...as as unacceptable thing for you to be doing....and I applaud you for that.

You are in good company here on ESMB.....I think several here...have done "operations" and "secret" stuff, for the Cult in the past.....

:)
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

WoW.....A spy....a Mata Hari.....for RTC no less. :biggrin:

Thanks so much for the post....very interesting.:ohmy:

"Arm twisting" (to put it mildly) by the Cult.....really sucks. :angry:

Even if you were somewhat a marshmallow to start.....you ended it, yourself...as as unacceptable thing for you to be doing....and I applaud you for that.

You are in good company here on ESMB.....I think several here...have done "operations" and "secret" stuff, for the Cult in the past.....

:)

Well I hope they are encouraged to post it here and to talk about it. I know it is hard because I experienced it. It made me stay away from all Scientology exes for decades. (By which I meant that when one confesses one's less than noble actions, which I do here) there is always a chance that someone will come in here and scream at me/them.

But I don't like fighting so if that happens you'll have to wait and see how I handle it. :biggrin:
 

Leland

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I recall David Mayo playing the lead role in that Tech Film......"Detecting E-Meter Reads"...or some title like that....where he plays a detective ala Sam Spade or Philip Marlow.....complete with trench coat, in the film.

It must have been interesting to have worked with one of the, if not the top tech terminal....in the Cult...when you did.

Do you recall any discussion of the "thrust" or the "why" for the Sunshine Rundown?

It would be interesting to hear any talk you can remember of "why" any particular auditing action, like the sun rundown was thought to be needed and why at that particular point on the bridge.

Who came up with the idea?

Curious minds want to know....or are at least somewhat interested...:p
 

Leland

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Well I hope they are encouraged to post it here and to talk about it. I know it is hard because I experienced it. It made me stay away from all Scientology exes for decades. (By which I meant that when one confesses one's less than noble actions, which I do here) there is always a chance that someone will come in here and scream at me/them.

But I don't like fighting so if that happens you'll have to wait and see how I handle it. :biggrin:

Yes, I suppose that is possible.

But if it gets too rough.....they might get a two week ban....:)

I still bitch and moan about Ridner, and Rathbun......and am suspicious about some here that used to work for OSA....and such. Bill Franks use to post here.....any old top executive.....chaps my hide....

Anyway.....it is what it is....
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I recall David Mayo playing the lead role in that Tech Film......"Detecting E-Meter Reads"...or some title like that....where he plays a detective ala Sam Spade or Philip Marlow.....complete with trench coat, in the film.

It must have been interesting to have worked with one of the, if not the top tech terminal....in the Cult...when you did.

Do you recall any discussion of the "thrust" or the "why" for the Sunshine Rundown?

It would be interesting to hear any talk you can remember of "why" any particular auditing action, like the sun rundown was thought to be needed and why at that particular point on the bridge.

Who came up with the idea?

Curious minds want to know....or are at least somewhat interested...:p

I am gathering my thoughts on the sunshine rundown so I can write about it next. I'll probably write about Venezuela later, after my trip to LA for OT levels and Int for Sunshine R/D, since this is a more "California Sunshine thread". :)
My experiences in LA were different because while I was there as a pc on OT levels, I think I was being whisked through so I could audit some bogged OTs at AOLA too. I had a reputation for fixing cases. So I fixed one case literally by smiling at the man and asking him to pick up the cans. He picked them up, f/ned and then we went to Qual to verify it. LOL. After that we returned to session. I think the LA people freaked given that they had been trying to F/N him for MONTHS. Whhhhaaaaaaa. I can honestly say, and when asked what I did I did say, "Absolutely nothing."
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Maria,

Very interesting post. I was AOLA staff from early 80s until the mid 90. I remember when Bob and Sammy Mithoff were sent to infiltrate Mayo's group.

Always wondered what happened to Sammy. She was retreading the EPF when I was on. Anyone know?
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Maria,

Very interesting post. I was AOLA staff from early 80s until the mid 90. I remember when Bob and Sammy Mithoff were sent to infiltrate Mayo's group.

Always wondered what happened to Sammy. She was retreading the EPF when I was on. Anyone know?

Thank you Lulu. If you have memories of Ray and Sammy going there to infiltrate, feel free to share.
I didn't know about Sammy being at AAC, only knew about Mithoff. I read something Julie wrote somewhere, about how devastated she and David were concerning what had happened with Ray.
 

Leland

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Mer and Lulu Belle......I just stumbled upon this Original Post by Gottabrain in the OSA Tactics and Procedures thread.....and thought I'd post it here.....as some corroboration to what Mer had posted about AAC.

Perhaps he is talking about you Mer....Its a possibility. I'm not trying to grind on this....just thought it was interesting....

Edited: if he is not talking about you, then RTC/OSA sent another person in......also.

Gotabrain wrote, "Here is an example: A long range OSA Op plan may include infiltrating different Scn or Anon groups and disrupting things or gaining info. But setting up their own OSA squirrel group and receiving or delivering auditing? Not going to happen. Too complex, too many variables, too hard, requires too many people, too many risks, too much coordination and the OSA Ops would worry about it messing up their cases. As Terril pointed out on another thread, it’s never happened in the past (if anyone knows of an instance, please correct me). OSA Ops HAVE been in David Mayo’s classroom, though. I knew of one who did this, a woman who was working on her A-E steps from being declared. She infiltrated Mayo’s group for 3 months as her effective blow and amends – I signed her formula. She told me they didn’t have student points and a few other things. She was extremely uncomfortable doing it, though. When the Op was over, she was pretty confused over who the good guys and bad guys were. She left the C of S completely a few years later, btw. No, OSA wouldn’t start their own group to deliver Scn outside the C of S. No way. The risks! The Op could turn without their knowing and grab the most damaging materials from the Cult and give them to the Ex’s. Who could be trusted that far and not to be caught? Never happened before and I can’t see it ever happening. "

:)
 
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Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Mer and Lulu Belle......I just stumbled upon this Original Post by Gottabrain in the OSA Tactics and Procedures thread.....and thought I'd post it here.....as some corroboration to what Mer had posted about AAC.

Perhaps he is talking about you Mer....Its a possibility. I'm not trying to grind on this....just thought it was interesting....

Gotabrain wrote, "Here is an example: A long range OSA Op plan may include infiltrating different Scn or Anon groups and disrupting things or gaining info. But setting up their own OSA squirrel group and receiving or delivering auditing? Not going to happen. Too complex, too many variables, too hard, requires too many people, too many risks, too much coordination and the OSA Ops would worry about it messing up their cases. As Terril pointed out on another thread, it’s never happened in the past (if anyone knows of an instance, please correct me). OSA Ops HAVE been in David Mayo’s classroom, though. I knew of one who did this, a woman who was working on her A-E steps from being declared. She infiltrated Mayo’s group for 3 months as her effective blow and amends – I signed her formula. She told me they didn’t have student points and a few other things. She was extremely uncomfortable doing it, though. When the Op was over, she was pretty confused over who the good guys and bad guys were. She left the C of S completely a few years later, btw. No, OSA wouldn’t start their own group to deliver Scn outside the C of S. No way. The risks! The Op could turn without their knowing and grab the most damaging materials from the Cult and give them to the Ex’s. Who could be trusted that far and not to be caught? Never happened before and I can’t see it ever happening. "

:)
This is neat. The time frame seems different but it has been a long time.....as far as remembering exact details. :)
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Lakey, so I had to defend myself on the Miami thread for posting here. I think you might like my response.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...Giralda-Ave-OP-Z-anyone&p=1011441#post1011441

Thanks for letting me know that Maria. Thanks also, for your beautiful new Avatar and also for revealing your full name. Two things, First, somewhere around 2011 DOF read and commented on the Apollo thread for an extended period of two to three weeks. He pretty much said the same thing that he wrote to you. He extolled the virtues of threads being short and concentrating on only one topic and definitely, there is a lot of truth in his opinion.

I do find two inconsistencies in his message to you, so I will show one phrase from his post to you which did not make a lot of sense to me and here it is:

"The Apollo-lo-lo thread is a message board in itself, except who knows what is there. If you, Maria, had posted a thread entitled "Maria's Story" (or whatever), I would have been interested enough to take a look at it, and might have read everything you posted. As it is, everything you post there is lost to civilization, so to speak."

He's saying that everything you post here is lost to civilization, so to speak but the Apollo thread is currently getting about 600 hits to 4,800 hits per day. while most other threads may get 25 hits a day. Say our average is 2,500 per day, that would be 100 times more readership than the average thread. My question then becomes, How does being read by 2,500 people a day equate to being lost to civilization while being read by 25 people a day avoids one from having his writings lost to civilization?

The other inconsistency as I it see relates to this comment of his, "If you, Maria, had posted a thread entitled "Maria's Story" (or whatever), I would have been interested enough to take a look at it, and might have read everything you posted."

I find it very strange indeed that DOF feels this way. If you had posted your story on it's own thread, he would have taken a look at it and might have read everything you posted. He is implying that since you are posting your story here instead, he is not even going to take a look at it and will definitely not read everything you posted. This is a new concept to me, very foreign to my way of thinking. I am talking about disqualifying oneself form reading a certain author's story only because she posts it on one portion of a certain medium instead another portion of the same medium. The idea of reacting that way, just blows my mind. I like and respect DOF but the fact that he would refuse to read your story if you post it on this thread just blows me over. Well, he can do as he sees fits but to me, his position is rather extreme.

BTW, Johnny the Magic Thetan who just passed on last week, made a big splash posting on ESMB in 2012. His friend, Blue Spirit, wanted Johnny to post on his own thread but then Blue Spirit arranged for the 3 of us to meet for lunch in Glendale. After Johnny met me for lunch and talked to me at length about his proposed thread, he wanted to post his story on the Apollo thread. Blue Spirit and Johnny worked out a compromise and decided to post his story in both places simultaneously. It worked like a charm

In fact, Maria, maybe you should consider posting your story both ways, on your own thread and also, simultaneously here. That would, in essence, give you the best of both worlds. Also, it would enable DOF to be able to read your thread without going against his own principles and he should definitely be reading your story and all the posts you are making here which he is not reading. He is a smart fellow and knows what he is talking about, and you should get the benefit of his feedback so that is my attempt at a win-win handling.

Maria, I think the senior item is that posting should be fun and one should have fun posting wherever he or she sees fit. Only when that is occurring, should a person concern themselves with the question of where to post.
Lakey
 
Last edited:

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

How are you able to watch your stats for this thread Lakey? Are you using an outside service? Alexa?

http://www.labnol.org/internet/find-website-traffic-hits/8008/
Found this.

Maria, to get here, I click on ESMB and get their title page, ect. and I click on "My Story Inside Scientology" This brings up all the currently active threads that fall into that category. Next to each threads title of their total number of views since inception and their total number of replies since inception. Right now our total views are at 1,877,646.
Lakey
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I really like posting here and i don't really want to worry if where I post pleases someone. I am sure he means well but I have spent my life navigating rules, norms, expectations. I can see that at a job and when driving and many other examples I must knuckle down and conform - but on my own time why can I not do what I want? Of course I like the idea that others would find and read the posts. Also I like this thread and I want to contribute to it by providing it content. I worked as a web developer too, even recently. I do understand his view; however, his view is not correct. Lol. Yes I repeat I have been in software development and this thread is where I want to be plus if I cared about traffic it is the best place. One reason is that on esmb it is more visible than other threads and stays visible for more extended periods of time. I really did not notice that at first when I decided to post here. I hate contentiousness, fakeness, over-jargon filled pcness and would rather avoid ideology just because these are stressful and unpleasant. So I liked this thread because it's real, seems like a friendly place, and because old timers are here and I can read of their adventures and learn a few things in between posts. :) I do get that arguing and diagreeing has its place. I just don't enjoy it. It does not mean I don't have a view on things only that I express myself a different way.


Thanks for letting me know that Maria. Thanks also, for your beautiful new Avatar and also for revealing your full name. Two things, First, somewhere around 2011 DOF read and commented on the Apollo thread for an extended period of two to three weeks. He pretty much said the same thing that he wrote to you. He extolled the virtues of threads being short and concentrating on only one topic and definitely, there is a lot of truth in his opinion.

I do find two inconsistencies in his message to you, so I will show one phrase from his post to you which did not make sense a lot of sense to me and here it is:

"The Apollo-lo-lo thread is a message board in itself, except who knows what is there. If you, Maria, had posted a thread entitled "Maria's Story" (or whatever), I would have been interested enough to take a look at it, and might have read everything you posted. As it is, everything you post there is lost to civilization, so to speak."

He's saying that everything you post here is lost to civilization, so to speak but the Apollo thread is currently getting about 600 hits to 4,800 hits per day. while most other threads may get 25 hits a day. Say our average is 2,500 per day, that would be 100 times more readership than the average thread. My question then becomes, How does being read by 2,500 people a day equate to being lost to civilization while being read by 25 people a day avoids one from having his writings lost to civilization?

The other inconsistency as I it see relates to this comment of his, "If you, Maria, had posted a thread entitled "Maria's Story" (or whatever), I would have been interested enough to take a look at it, and might have read everything you posted."

I find it very strange indeed that DOF feels this way. If you had posted your story on it's own thread, he would have taken a look at it and might have read everything you posted. He is implying that since you are posting your story here instead, he is not even going to take a look at it and will definitely no read everything you posted. This is a new concept to me, very foreign to my way of thinking. I am talking about disqualifying oneself form reading a certain author's story only because she posts it on one portion of a certain medium instead another portion of the same medium. The idea of reacting that way, just blows my mind. I like and respect DOF but the fact that he would refuse to read your story if you post it on this thread just blows me over. Well, he can do as he sees fits but to me, his position is rather extreme.

BTW, Johnny the Magic Thetan who just passed on last week, made a big splash posting on ESMB in 2012. His friend, Blue Spirit, wanted Johnny to post on his own thread but then Blue Spirit arranged for the 3 of us to meet for lunch in Glendale. After Johnny met me for lunch and talked to me at length about his proposed thread, he wanted to post his story on the Apollo thread. Blue Spirit and Johnny worked out a compromise and decided to post his story in both places simultaneously. It worked like a charm

In fact, Maria, maybe you should consider posting your story both ways, on your own thread and also, simultaneously here. That would, in essence, give you the best of both worlds. Also, it would enable DOF to be able to read your thread without going against his own principles and he should definitely be reading your story and all the posts you are making here which he is not reading. He is a smart fellow and knows what he is talking about, and you should get the benefit of his feedback so that is my attempt at a win-win handling.

Maria, I think the senior item is that posting should be fun and one should have fun posting wherever he or she sees fit. Only when that is occurring, should a person concern themselves with the question of where to post.
Lakey
 
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