The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I am not positive if this was in fact my first post on Apollo or not, but looks like I just passed my three month anniversary on the Apollo yesterday. My first post being three months ago on Feb 25, 2015.
Thank you Lakey and everyone else here for being so welcoming. I found that early post which I responded to about big beings and Hitler (my last post) while searching for my own first Apollo post. I am not 100% positive this was my first post but I think it is. I may also have posted somewhere else the day before that, on some Miami threads.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?10103-The-old-days-Aboard-the-Apollo-1973/page2026





Is there a way to scrape my posts off of esmb? I would like to save some of the stuff I have written (non-Scn related) and would like to download it all without having to read every page but see no mechanism to do so. Yes,I could write a little program to scrape it all for me (since it is all publicly accessible as html) but why go to all that trouble.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I just read the Bright Think rundown online. "Where would you be safe?" is the command. Gee. I used to run that on bogged pcs. Pulled it from the volumes somewhere.

And to think they got it from me as part of life repair, before the rundown even came out.
So where is the bright think rundown on the bridge?

I feel so woefully uninformed!

Just remembered. "Is it safe?" is a big line from that Nazi film, Marathon Man.

 

[Gizmo]

What was the name of the first born child of Adam & Eve ?

This is such an easy one, as you are related to them !

What was the name of the first born child of Adam & Eve ?

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Answer the Einstein question you posed first.

 

[Gizmo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Answer the Einstein question you posed first.

Oh, I'm asking geek questions for others to play with & have fun.

But, yes, I know the answer to the questions I ask otherwise who would I know gets the banana ?

The Einstein question is easy but I'll give you a hint, elegance of structure.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Oh, & the earlier, uh, 'discussion' about time ?

I'm pretty sure Einstein said " Time is relative ".

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Oh, I'm asking geek questions for others to play with & have fun.

But, yes, I know the answer to the questions I ask otherwise who would I know gets the banana ?

The Einstein question is easy but I'll give you a hint, elegance of structure.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Oh, & the earlier, uh, 'discussion' about time ?

I'm pretty sure Einstein said " Time is relative ".

Giz, Einstein also said "I live my daydreams in music." Which makes me wonder, was his physics a daydream, a daydream "given" to him one day?
Since he also said music helped him think about his theories.... (Edit: I am being slightly facetious of course. But maybe not, given the next post, see below.)

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I found this quote: "Einstein once said that while Beethoven created his music, Mozart's 'was so pure that it seemed to have been ever-present in the universe, waiting to be discovered by the master.'"

Also this quote: "Einstein believed much the same of physics, that beyond observations and theory lay the music of the spheres — which, he wrote, revealed a 'pre-established harmony' exhibiting stunning symmetries. The laws of nature, such as those of relativity theory, were waiting to be plucked out of the cosmos by someone with a sympathetic ear. Thus it was less laborious calculation, but 'pure thought' to which Einstein attributed his theories."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/31/science/31essa.html?_r=0 (This link is the source of both quotes.)

What follows is my own commentary.

Of course the concept of pre-established Harmony comes from Leibniz....which makes me wonder now to what extent Einstein read Leibniz. I could write on that topic myself as I have taught Leibniz to students and read quite a bit of his work. But what is interesting in Leibniz is the concept that there is no free will, that nothing is created by us, and that God at each moments is the only source of anything that happens (Occasionalism). So for Leibniz everything is fated, everything already exists and we neither create things nor invent them. (Einstein's criticism of Wagner was just that, the music seemed 'invented'.) Leibniz is also an early theorizer of alternate universes - in a way for him each soul IS an alternate universe; in fact possible dimensions are endless. It's a big explanation so I will leave it alone; what I have said is a very reduced summary. But your explanation/quiz question on Einstein still evades me Giz, unless you mean to say that music is plucked from the Heavens in the same way Physics is and that the order of Music and Physics thus comes from an identical non-human simplicity of expression/source.

This view of plucking truth whole from the 'pattern' is interesting given some other quotes of Einstein's concerning his philosophical views...... (easily found on the internet.)

Plato also believed in the Music of the Spheres, and, that it was mathematical.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Can you just give me credit for that last attempt at an answer and tell us YOUR answer Giz?

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I am not positive if this was in fact my first post on Apollo or not, but looks like I just passed my three month anniversary on the Apollo yesterday. My first post being three months ago on Feb 25, 2015.
Thank you Lakey and everyone else here for being so welcoming. I found that early post which I responded to about big beings and Hitler (my last post) while searching for my own first Apollo post. I am not 100% positive this was my first post but I think it is. I may also have posted somewhere else the day before that, on some Miami threads.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?10103-The-old-days-Aboard-the-Apollo-1973/page2026





Is there a way to scrape my posts off of esmb? I would like to save some of the stuff I have written (non-Scn related) and would like to download it all without having to read every page but see no mechanism to do so. Yes,I could write a little program to scrape it all for me (since it is all publicly accessible as html) but why go to all that trouble.

First of all, congratulations on your 3 month anniversary!! You have contributed heavily to the entire board but especially to the Apollo thread!! Its hard to believe that you have only been here 3 months, the impact you made is more typical of 3 years not just 3 months.

BTW: you can easily access your posts in sequential order to reread your 1st post ever. Just click on 'My Posts' on the lowest line of the ESMB title page, at about the middle of the page
I don't know the answer to your question about scraping your posts off of ESMB but some more tech savvy person should be able to give you the answer you are seeking.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I once wrote a poem about the ancient Greek custom of keeping a statue of the god Palla in the city of Troy. This statue was known as the Palladium. The word palladium perhaps serves as metaphor for the idea of the safety of a city. Thus my poem ends, "the people had their palladium and were soothed." The Greek idea was that if the statue of the god was safe, so was the city. When Zeus himself smashed the statue only then was the sack of Troy possible. Thus the unpredictable nature of gods..... as to their allegiances and desires and the human ability to know what these might be. And once that was the case, once Troy lost the palladium, the Trojan horse becomes possible, that horse being the substitute palladium. Anyway, there are infinite stories of palladium in literature and in life. But can we say that Hitler offered such a (substitute) palladium to the people and like sheep they followed him over the cliff of hell.......?

That last line seems like a very plausible theory! The people were at low ebb when Hitler assumed power. Not only was the worldwide depression at its lowest ebb but Germany was saddled with huge reparation payments and runaway inflation was running rampant within Germany. The existing palladium, perhaps the Kaiser's Palace, had been gotten rid of along with the Kaiser himself and some sort of new palladium was needed to give the German people assurance that they had a bright future. Slick talking Hitler, knew how to use these circumstances to his advantage and win over enough support to become Chancellor and then anointed himself Fuhrer - definitely at least a substitute for the old palladium. Yes most followed him like sheep all the way over the cliff>
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: What is a "Big Being"?

I agree. Being evil or petty has nothing to do with being a big or a small being. Hitler obviously marshalled a lot of power. By that fact he was cause.

I guess being cause is not enough since being cause and petty (or evil) at the same time was entirely possible in Hitler's case.

As I have gone through life I've also noticed I've stopped being a petty little shit. I don't know that auditing had anything to do with it but that doesn't matter.
Whenever it happens to assist life is good.

Besides a being's size and causation level, circumstances seem to play a large part in a person's life. Hitler applied to a College of Art in Germany, if he had enough art talent to be excepted, he would have not gone into politics, become Fuhrer and brought on WWII. He would probably have become just an average artist or architect. You have the same being, the same size but going into politics rather than his chosen fields of art or architecture afforded him much more of an opportunity to show his causation level. Perhaps the secrete is as Carmelo says in that the size of a being is connected to how many people that being is in contact with. Being a Fuhrer and not an artist, Hitler maxed our his causation potential, mostly on behalf of evil causes.
Lakey

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: What is a "Big Being"?

Besides a being's size and causation level, circumstances seem to play a large part in a person's life. Hitler applied to a College of Art in Germany, if he had enough art talent to be excepted, he would have not gone into politics, become Fuhrer and brought on WWII. He would probably have become just an average artist or architect. You have the same being, the same size but going into politics rather than his chosen fields of art or architecture afforded him much more of an opportunity to show his causation level. Perhaps the secrete is as Carmelo says in that the size of a being is connected to how many people that being is in contact with. Being a Fuhrer and not an artist, Hitler maxed our his causation potential, mostly on behalf of evil causes.
Lakey

I would like to meet the fellow in charge - 'circumstance' - so that I can be informed as to whether I'll be successful in art or if I will have to settle for arm chair philosopher.
This fellow, whoever he is, circumstance, seems to circle my life. So it's only fair that I ask him for the straight dope. (And note, the etymology of 'circumstance' is related to said circle.....)

So circumstance, please come over and have a couple of margaritas with me, let's get drunk and give a bit of advice, less obtuse this time. (As comedian Andy Kaufman would say, "Thank you very much.")

Still struggling with understanding how one can max out causation levels/potential. This advanced concept is beyond me......

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I found this quote: "Einstein once said that while Beethoven created his music, Mozart's 'was so pure that it seemed to have been ever-present in the universe, waiting to be discovered by the master.'"

Also this quote: "Einstein believed much the same of physics, that beyond observations and theory lay the music of the spheres — which, he wrote, revealed a 'pre-established harmony' exhibiting stunning symmetries. The laws of nature, such as those of relativity theory, were waiting to be plucked out of the cosmos by someone with a sympathetic ear. Thus it was less laborious calculation, but 'pure thought' to which Einstein attributed his theories."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/31/science/31essa.html?_r=0 (This link is the source of both quotes.)

What follows is my own commentary.

Of course the concept of pre-established Harmony comes from Leibniz....which makes me wonder now to what extent Einstein read Leibniz. I could write on that topic myself as I have taught Leibniz to students and read quite a bit of his work. But what is interesting in Leibniz is the concept that there is no free will, that nothing is created by us, and that God at each moments is the only source of anything that happens (Occasionalism). So for Leibniz everything is fated, everything already exists and we neither create things or invent them. (Einstein's criticism of Wagner was just that, the music seemed 'invented'.) Leibniz is also an early theorizer of alternate universes - in a way for him each soul IS an alternate universe; in fact possible dimensions are endless. It's a big explanation so I will leave it alone; what I have said is a very reduced summary. But your explanation/quiz question on Einstein still evades me Giz, unless you mean to say that music is plucked from the Heavens in the same way Physics is and that the order of Music and Physics thus comes from an identical non-human simplicity of expression/source.

This view of plucking truth whole from the 'pattern' is interesting given some other quotes of Einstein's concerning his philosophical views...... (easily found on the internet.)

Plato also believed in the Music of the Spheres, and, that it was mathematical.

I prefer to think of Leibniz as an independent co founder of calculus, along with Newton. Leibniz also worked quite a bit with number theory as well. With calculus, Leibniz obtained a workable technology which furthers science. I don't agree much with his philosophy. Of course he is a much. much smarter person than me but I do have the benefit of coming about 310 years after him which gives me some insights that were not available to him.

Lakey

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I prefer to think of Leibniz as an independent co founder of calculus, along with Newton. Leibniz also worked quite a bit with number theory as well. With calculus, Leibniz obtained a workable technology which furthers science. I don't agree much with his philosophy. Of course he is a much. much smarter person than me but I do have the benefit of coming about 310 years after him which gives me some insights that were not available to him.

Lakey

I actually tend to agree more with Leibniz on free will. But Leibniz agrees with Socrates and well, heck, I tend to like Socrates. Of course I tend to vacillate....it's hard for me to say "this is exactly right" (just when I come to some conclusion) since how could I prove it to myself.... so therefore, I can't say you were wrong and I am right..... which means I guess I suffer from misology......

This is why in such cases the Greeks would hold a symposium and drink wine and indulge in much verbal tech....

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: What is a "Big Being"?

I would like to meet the fellow in charge - 'circumstance' - so that I can be informed as to whether I'll be successful in art or if I will have to settle for arm chair philosopher.
This fellow, whoever he is, circumstance, seems to circle my life. So it's only fair that I ask him for the straight dope. (And note, the etymology of 'circumstance' is related to said circle.....)

So circumstance, please come over and have a couple of margaritas with me, let's get drunk and give a bit of advice, less obtuse this time. (As comedian Andy Kaufman would say, "Thank you very much.")

Still struggling with understanding how one can max out causation levels/potential. This advanced concept is beyond me......

It was a joke.

So I assume I don't have much of a sense of humor given that no one ever gets my jokes. They are jokes for one (me). Private jokes?

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: What is a "Big Being"?

I would like to meet the fellow in charge - 'circumstance' - so that I can be informed as to whether I'll be successful in art or if I will have to settle for arm chair philosopher.
This fellow, whoever he is, circumstance, seems to circle my life. So it's only fair that I ask him for the straight dope. (And note, the etymology of 'circumstance' is related to said circle.....)

So circumstance, please come over and have a couple of margaritas with me, let's get drunk and give a bit of advice, less obtuse this time. (As comedian Andy Kaufman would say, "Thank you very much.")

Still struggling with understanding how one can max out causation levels/potential. This advanced concept is beyond me......

I don't know what to make of your post. Look, take Plato, but him in Greece in its Golden Age and he is an immortal philosopher, studied and quoted in all major universities, etc.
Put that same being in Timbuktu at that same time and probably no one today would ever Know that he had existed.

It's the same being, Plato, who grew up in ancient Greece and a hypothetical Plato, growing up at the same time in some backwater place off of the main path of civilization, a place such as Timbuktu. My point seems totally reasonable to me. Please show me in plain English where you think I am going wrong.

Lakey

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: What is a "Big Being"?

I don't know what to make of your post. Look, take Plato, but him in Greece in its Golden Age and he is an immortal philosopher, studied and quoted in all major universities, etc.
Put that same being in Timbuktu at that same time and probably no one today would ever Know that he had existed.

It's the same being, Plato, who grew up in ancient Greece and a hypothetical Plato, growing up at the same time in some backwater place off of the main path of civilization, a place such as Timbuktu. My point seems totally reasonable to me. Please show me in plain English where you think I am going wrong.

Lakey

I was making a joke. I already noted that I lack finesse at humor so obviously the joke did not succeed. I wasn't saying you were wrong. I was thinking it was funny that I was unable to conceive of max causation levels. So I was making fun of it and myself.....

I don't know plain English. I do try.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

A long time ago I studied The Tale of Genji, an ancient Japanese tale of love and power.

In that tale, a cultivated person (this was limited to a very few few people, such as the royal family) would have the below skills or talents

writing poetry (to be able to write beautifully) (Edit: also to paint, play a musical instrument, dress beautifully, etc.)
the arts of war
the art of conversation
the art of making love (including flirting)
art, or, the art of art (life, art, poetry, conversation, war)

At least this is what I remember from reading The Tale of Genji. It's been a few years.

Or maybe all these arts are just the last one.....

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: What is a "Big Being"?

I don't know what to make of your post. Look, take Plato, but him in Greece in its Golden Age and he is an immortal philosopher, studied and quoted in all major universities, etc.
Put that same being in Timbuktu at that same time and probably no one today would ever Know that he had existed.

It's the same being, Plato, who grew up in ancient Greece and a hypothetical Plato, growing up at the same time in some backwater place off of the main path of civilization, a place such as Timbuktu. My point seems totally reasonable to me. Please show me in plain English where you think I am going wrong.

Lakey

But of course Plato was in Greece. And of course he was not hypothetical. Let me go out on a limb. I suppose, and even believe, and perhaps Einstein would if he was here, that Plato was an inevitable fact of history. Thus he is quoted and questioned and was never a random fact but a fact in a different (inevitable) sense.

I can't claim to be able to decrypt that fact (of different sense). But I do enjoy, very very much, that the fact called 'Socrates-Plato' cannot be/has not been decrypted.


And hope it stays that way.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Two favorite sayings:

"I am doing the best that I can."

"You don't know what I am going through."


There was a third saying but I forgot what it is. Maybe Giz knows.