The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Here you go. I don't care if I am accused of being a guru. I am not. Anyone just go to town! But I won't fkning apologize for having brain cells. Before trying to focus on real wins in existence, a person leaving cos should free their mind of all concepts or beliefs of cos or scn, if they can and to the degree possible. After that then there are those here who can possibly help, in some way, with what ails. I am down on the tech and it is healthy for new departures to do that too - go sailing, walk in the woods, play with your dog. That is step 1. Nature is more fun than any tech. Talk to exes who care, like on this thread is then Step 2. Here on this thread we won't attack you, no matter what you believe.

Fine, thank you for your opinion, it is obvious that you feel very strongly about this matter. People reading your post will take into account the passion with which you present your views!!!

I am the moderator of the thread having written its first post. As moderator, I know of several people whom I respect who hold a view different from yours. Two such people who are my friends are Purple Haze and CO2. Purple can deliver CoS tech as well as other forms of tech, including social worker's tech. I have never had a session from CO2 but I know that he is capable of talking to people over the phone and somehow producing major changes for the better in them. Phil Spickler may likely think highly of some portions of tech and then there are two veteran posters here, Leon and Terril who tend to support tech going on in the field. As moderator, I am striving for a forum where differing views are allowed the right of presenting their case. I often disagree with one side at the expense of the other side but even so both sides have the right to be heard. If we don't do that, then we are no better than all the hate mongers on so many of the bash type threads on ESMB! I really want to uphold a forum which allows conflicting viewpoints to compete on an equal basis. The strength of one side's logical arguments over the other side must decide the issues otherwise why even bother to waste one's time developing a forum?

Your step 1 starts off nicely, some may be strong enough to pull it off while others may not. If not, you advise them to seek out exes here who can possibly help in some way with what ails. That is exactly what I am recommending as well. In your next sentence you mention that you are down on the tech and then you give them advice on how to play out being down on the tech . IMO, I believe that somewhere in this portion of your advice you begin to take control of the persons power of choice and eliminate them from considering opinions that do not agree with yours. You then tell then to talk to exes who care, like on this thread which is then Step 2 and you assure them that here on this thread we won't attack you, no matter what you believe.

The overall plan is good but I see an inconsistency. I believe that it is not possible for you to assure them that they won't be attacked here on this thread until AFTER they talk to people who are not down on the tech; in other words if they never talk to such people. you cannot make that guarantee.

I think your recommendations should be rephrased as follow: "A person leaving cos should free their mind of all concepts or beliefs of cos or scn, if they can and to the degree possible. After that then there are those here who can possibly help, in some way, with what ails. I am down on the tech and I believe that it is correct for new departures to be down on it too. If you don't agree with me, go talk to some others who are not down on the tech first then go on to the next step. If you do agree with me then go immediately onto the next step which is - go sailing, walk in the woods, play with your dog. That is step 1. I believe that Nature is more fun than any tech. Next, talk to exes who care, like exes on this thread who you have not yet talked to. - that is then Step 2. Here on this thread we won't attack you, no matter what you believe. Having talked to me, one who is down on the tech and having had the opportunity to talk to others who are not down on the tech, I recommend to you that you continue on with my step 2. If for some reason you still wish to pursue the tech, I highly advise against that and I ask you to do my step 2 first but if you insist on continuing with the tech pick the person whom you feel most comfortable with and start working with them on the tech. I wish you luck but if anything goes wrong, then come back and see me and I will help you to get going on step 2."[/QUOTE]

If you did this, essentially at least allowing them the opportunity of talking to a Terril or a Leon first, then I think that your method would be perfect. Whether a person went your way or went with Terril or Leon would depend mainly on your persuasiveness and skill in presenting your arguments against the tech vis a vis their arguments for the tech. I believe that this one step is vital and must not be strong armed out of existence, which it seems to me is what your original method, without my modification, would do.
Lakey

 

[Enthetan]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

If you did this, essentially at least allowing them the opportunity of talking to a Terril or a Leon first, then I think that your method would be perfect. Whether a person went your way or went with Terril or Leon would depend mainly on your persuasiveness and skill in presenting your arguments against the tech vis a vis their arguments for the tech. I believe that this one step is vital and must not be strong armed out of existence, which it seems to me is what your original method, without my modification, would do.
Lakey

Re-phrasing what you said a little:

People who come out of Scn, come out with varying opinions about the tech. Some are disillusioned about the tech, and some are disillusioned about Scn management (but still think the tech has value). For the latter, it's fine to let them interact with people who also think there is some value to the tech. Over time, as they decompress from Scn, their opinions might change.

One thing about people: if they firmly believe A, and you say A is bullshit, their first impulse is to discount you. People in the education industry may lose sight of this, because they have the power to flunk people who openly disagree with them. So they get a number of people who, while unconvinced, will parrot back what the teacher wants to hear just so they can pass the course and move on, while remaining unconvinced.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Re-phrasing what you said a little:

People who come out of Scn, come out with varying opinions about the tech. Some are disillusioned about the tech, and some are disillusioned about Scn management (but still think the tech has value). For the latter, it's fine to let them interact with people who also think there is some value to the tech. Over time, as they decompress from Scn, their opinions might change.

One thing about people: if they firmly believe A, and you say A is bullshit, their first impulse is to discount you. People in the education industry may lose sight of this, because they have the power to flunk people who openly disagree with them. So they get a number of people who, while unconvinced, will parrot back what the teacher wants to hear just so they can pass the course and move on, while remaining unconvinced.

Gee whiz , still think the advice holds, that new people take a bit of a breather or vacation before leaping into the fray. And smell the roses. Of course advice is just advice. To each what feels right.

 

[Gizmo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

< clipped >

I am the moderator of the thread having written its first post. As moderator,....<clipped >

Interesting! Very Interesting !

This is the very first time I have heard the OP is the appointed moderator of the thread by the powers that be of the board !

I never knew - or has even heard of it of any board anywhere on the 'net - the OP had the power to moderate the posts of others & apparently you have shown remarkable restrain as I don't see where any posts on the thread have been moderated by you.

This is such a unique position on the entire spectrum of chat boards as it is most often that the OP starts a thread & that's all they can do besides post. In most instances, the direction or nature of the thread is solely at the discretion of the posters that choose to post.

Derails happen as other topics that vary from the OP happen. Some 'camp' on a thread & it becomes their 'home thread'.

But this is absolutely stunning that the board has given you the power to moderate a thread !

Sir, I step back & salute you & the power the board has given you to moderate others !




..... and think I'll quietly creep away & be quiet !

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Gee whiz , still think the advice holds, that new people take a bit of a breather or vacation before leaping into the fray. And smell the roses. Of course advice is just advice. To each what feels right!

Exactly, to each what feels right. You outlined what you feel is right, which appears to me to be a no tech approach. I think that is a good approach but don't believe that it should be ramrodded through to the exclusion of the thoughts of others who believe differently than you. Your approach should be judged on on the merits of the case which you make for it. Similarly, others who prefer a tech approach should be allowed to be heard and judged solely on the merits of how they present their case.

It's really extremely simple and clean, an open forum where any legitimate cause gets a fair hearing and is judged on its merits. I don't think that I can state my case any clearer than that!
Lakey

 

[ILove2Lurk]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Interesting! Very Interesting !

This is the very first time I have heard the OP is the appointed moderator of the thread by the powers that be of the board !

Anyone who's been around ESMB for a while knows
this thread has always been sort of a private sandbox.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

:wink2:
​

View attachment 10452

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Exactly, to each what feels right. You outlined what you feel is right, which appears to me to be a no tech approach. I think that is a good approach but don't believe that it should be ramrodded through to the exclusion of the thoughts of others who believe differently than you. Your approach should be judged on on the merits of the case which you make for it. Similarly, others who prefer a tech approach should be allowed to be heard and judged solely on the merits of how they present their case.

It's really extremely simple and clean, an open forum where any legitimate cause gets a fair hearing and is judged on its merits. I don't think that I can state my case any clearer than that!
Lakey

I didn't bring out the [ramrod]...but if you want to play with it I am sure you will...

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Interesting! Very Interesting !

This is the very first time I have heard the OP is the appointed moderator of the thread by the powers that be of the board !

I never knew - or has even heard of it of any board anywhere on the 'net - the OP had the power to moderate the posts of others & apparently you have shown remarkable restrain as I don't see where any posts on the thread have been moderated by you.

This is such a unique position on the entire spectrum of chat boards as it is most often that the OP starts a thread & that's all they can do besides post. In most instances, the direction or nature of the thread is solely at the discretion of the posters that choose to post.

Derails happen as other topics that vary from the OP happen. Some 'camp' on a thread & it becomes their 'home thread'.

But this is absolutely stunning that the board has given you the power to moderate a thread !

Sir, I step back & salute you & the power the board has given you to moderate others !

..... and think I'll quietly creep away & be quiet !

Your expertise seems to lie in the area of farts and farting. When it comes to those subjects, I will look to you for advice. There is no doubt whatever that you know more about that subject than anyone else posting on this thread! When it comes to posting on more serious or thoughtful subjects, I choose to listen to the council of others and/or keep my own council.

You should look into the field of gastroentology, maybe get a medical degree and make big bucks giving colonoscopies. What with your expertise in farts you likely would be one of the world's greatest doctors on the subject of intestinal gases in particular and hot air in general! Have you posted yet on belching and acid reflux disease? I don't know if you work or not or what you are doing to earn money but it seems to me that in the fields of expelling of both intestinal gas and esophigal reflux gas you have natural talents which you might consider pursuing.

My hat is off to for your incomparable knowledge in analyzing the various gases being expelled by the human body. be they rectal gases or gases and acids eminating from the trachea. Unfortunately my nose plugs have to go on when my hat comes off. Rest assured that when I want advice on farts and farting or esophagal gases, you will receive a PM from me requesting your help! Until that time, I'll somehow have to struggle along without your advice.


..... and think I'll quietly creep away & be quiet ![/QUOTE]

If only you would follow through on doing that but even though you often promise it, you never once have actually left.

We had a little song at Griffith Park Boys Camp, back when I was 12, which is fitting here. Here are the lyrics:

We hate to see you go, we hate to see you go,
We hope to hell you'll never come back,
We hate to see you go.

If only you would follow through on doing that but even though you often promise it, you never once have actually left.

We had a little song at Griffith Park Boys Camp, back when I was 12, which is fitting here. Here are the lyrics:

We hate to see you go, we hate to see you go,
We hope to hell you'll never come back,
We hate to see you go.

Lakey

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I didn't realize there was bad blood.

my lack of perception. And hope it's not directed at me....

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Anyone who's been around ESMB for a while knows
this thread has always been sort of a private sandbox.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

:wink2:
​

View attachment 10452

We have 2 million and 5 thousand views and 22,000 replies. The average thread has maybe 1800 views and 35 replies and we are accused of being private! I don't get how someone can be so off the mark in being critical of a message board thread! The one thing we can not be accused of is what we get attacked for! Go figure!
Lakey

 

[Free Being Me]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Fine, thank you for your opinion, it is obvious that you feel very strongly about this matter. People reading your post will take into account the passion with which you present your views!!!

[HIGHLIGHT]I am the moderator of the thread[/HIGHLIGHT] having written its first post. [HIGHLIGHT]As moderator[/HIGHLIGHT], I know of several people whom I respect who hold a view different from yours. Two such people who are my friends are Purple Haze and CO2. Purple can deliver CoS tech as well as other forms of tech, including social worker's tech. I have never had a session from CO2 but I know that he is capable of talking to people over the phone and somehow producing major changes for the better in them. Phil Spickler may likely think highly of some portions of tech and then there are two veteran posters here, Leon and Terril who tend to support tech going on in the field. [HIGHLIGHT]As moderator[/HIGHLIGHT], I am striving for a forum where differing views are allowed the right of presenting their case. I often disagree with one side at the expense of the other side but even so both sides have the right to be heard. [HIGHLIGHT]If we don't do that, then we are no better than all the hate mongers on so many of the bash type threads on ESMB![/HIGHLIGHT] I really want to uphold a forum which allows conflicting viewpoints to compete on an equal basis. The strength of one side's logical arguments over the other side must decide the issues otherwise why even bother to waste one's time developing a forum? >snip<

Really? You've been vested with Mod powers on this thread? Whoa, Homo Ego Novis in action. Until Emma confirms your Mod position I call b.s. One of the reasons people leave this thread alone is your constant emotional positioning fallacy the rest of ESMB is composed of "haters." Assumptive us vs them cult-think never ends well.

 

[Leland]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Well, the Summer of 1972, when I decided to "get into " Scientology ......at FCDC......

As one learned of what was available.....sure one could study at FCDC......but as a newbie.....I had thought that if one wanted Advanced Training.....(University Level) one could go to Saint Hill.....or the Apollo ship.

I had wanted to do both.....but didn't have the money to do so. If I had....I might have.

I would assume that just the Title of this thread and the stories and the "inside" info of those that DID get to go to the Apollo.....would hold a lot of cache....and appeal for other Cult members...current and former...

No harm in that.....

Interesting stuff....

But still the Cult of Hubbard....none the less....

 

[Enthetan]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Interesting! Very Interesting !

This is the very first time I have heard the OP is the appointed moderator of the thread by the powers that be of the board !

I never knew - or has even heard of it of any board anywhere on the 'net - the OP had the power to moderate the posts of others & apparently you have shown remarkable restrain as I don't see where any posts on the thread have been moderated by you.

This is such a unique position on the entire spectrum of chat boards as it is most often that the OP starts a thread & that's all they can do besides post. In most instances, the direction or nature of the thread is solely at the discretion of the posters that choose to post.

Derails happen as other topics that vary from the OP happen. Some 'camp' on a thread & it becomes their 'home thread'.

But this is absolutely stunning that the board has given you the power to moderate a thread !

Sir, I step back & salute you & the power the board has given you to moderate others !




..... and think I'll quietly creep away & be quiet !

Or maybe just threads that have run as long, and have had as many views as this one. At this point, I would not be surprised if the Mods backed him up if he complained that somebody was crapping over his thread.

At three million views, Lakey gets the power to have obnoxious people executed.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Gee whiz , still think the advice holds, that new people take a bit of a breather or vacation before leaping into the fray. And smell the roses. Of course advice is just advice. To each what feels right.

Of course, I agree strongly with this post and I tried to make that point clear. I believe this is what you call Step 1, isn't it? I like your Step 2 as well. All that I was suggesting was that between the two steps, just before going forward with Step 2, some persons who came out of CoS feeling that the tech was OK and were considering continuing with the tech in the Indy field be allowed to talk about the tech with those regulars on this thread who still promote the tech. To me, that added step was not a rejection of your plan.

Summary:
Step 1 - Do Step 1 for all people newly out with no exceptions

Between Steps 1 and 2 - For those who still have some interest in looking into tech in the Indy field, allow them to talk to Thread members still promoting the tech

Step 2 - Those that don't want to continue with the tech all do Step 2 while those still thinking of possibly doing tech in the Indy Field, talk to people both pro tech and anti tech.
Some choose to go onto Step 2 while some may choose to do more tech in the Indy Field. It has to be the person's own choice - other wise no tech is being ram rodded.

I stand by that program. Not everyone is going to go for it, both no tech and pro tech people will complain but it gives both sides a voice, not just one side and it is a compromise which allows a newly outed ex to make an informed decision on which way they want to go.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I didn't realize there was bad blood.

my lack of perception. And hope it's not directed at me....

You and I seem to have a major disagreement in the area between steps 1 and 2 of your program. I introduced a half step in the middle there but otherwise love your other two steps. To me, it is no big deal if we disagree.

If you want to be palsy with Gizmo, more power to you and him! Contrary to what is being said about me, its none of my business. If you Like all his posts and put LOL and WTF on my stuff, so be it. I am not going to be angry. I'll just try and make my posts more inclusive. Don't worry about it.
Lakey

 

[Moderator 3]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Interesting! Very Interesting !

This is the very first time I have heard the OP is the appointed moderator of the thread by the powers that be of the board !

...

Or maybe just threads that have run as long, and have had as many views as this one. At this point, I would not be surprised if the Mods backed him up if he complained that somebody was crapping over his thread.

At three million views, Lakey gets the power to have obnoxious people executed.

Really? You've been vested with Mod powers on this thread? Whoa, Homo Ego Novis in action. Until Emma confirms your Mod position I call b.s. One of the reasons people leave this thread alone is your constant emotional positioning fallacy the rest of ESMB is composed of "haters." Assumptive us vs them cult-think never ends well.

Nah, either Lakey 'has a misunderstood' on the word "moderator" (as used in reference to threads/posts here on ESMB) or he's using some other definition than the one which applies to internet message boards.

FTR, I'm the mod who drew the short straw.

 

[Free Being Me]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Nah, either Lakey 'has a misunderstood' on the word "moderator" (as used in reference to threads/posts here on ESMB) or he's using some other definition than the one which applies to internet message boards.

FTR, I'm the mod who drew the short straw.

Thanks Mod. There's a big difference between Mod and O.P., Lakey needs moar clay and a dictionary.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

You and I seem to have a major disagreement in the area between steps 1 and 2 of your program. I introduced a half step in the middle there but otherwise love you other two steps. To me, it is no big deal if we disagree.

If you want to be palsy with Gizmo, more power to you and him! Contrary to what is being said about me, its none of my business. If you Like all his posts and put LOL and WTF on my stuff, so be it. I am not going to be angry. I'll just try and make my posts more inclusive. Don't worry about it.
Lakey

I did not realize I had taken sides with anyone. My only responses had to do with what was directed at me, which felt heavy handed on this end. (If I am wrong about heavy handed, forgive my lack of perception).

I did not feel understood in my post so I assume I did not communicate it very well. But now I don't know what to say....and as I am short a computer I will remain mute. Just thought I was making a light suggestion that after being bludgeoned by draconian cos structures that playing with pets and hanging out a bit was healthy. I couldn't really read your long responses since it felt a bit strong and I blanked it out for myself. (I evade anything I don't enjoy, a flaw perhaps.) Not due to your points made, be they true or false, but just as I said above. I guess I will wait for everyone to relax and chill out again. When fights ensue my best approach is just change topic, redirect into sandpit, and/or hugs. I don't do argue ever.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

And now I am off for a bit, hope everyone kisses and makes up....so the mod don't get a new short straw.