The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[lkwdblds]

Score one for Carmelo

You can't be imitating Jack, Lakey, we all know that you are 70 years old and Jack is 39.

Okay, Carmelo, you win that one! There is no way to respond to that wisecrack. What about all those dectective stories you wrote about that you loved? The word "wisecrack" was used all the time. Gangsters would even separate the two syllables and make a verb out of it. Example, thug says to victim who makes a joke putting down the thug, "Do not crack wise to me, it could be injurious to your health!"

Oh Rochester, will you get my car, I have to go over to the May Company, and buy Mr. Lakey a birthday present. They always have such good birthday gifts in the Bargain Basement.

The day Jack turned 40, the May Co. sold out to Macy's but Jack never lived to see it because he never did admit to 40. (Actually, I believe he made it to 80 - 1894 to 1974.) Carmelo, one night about 10 years ago, I happened by accident to just be surfing the TV channels and found the movie called "Buck Benny Rides Again." It was from the late 30's and featured Jack buying a Dude Ranch in Arizona. Jack already had most, if not all of his cast, and they all have major parts in the movie, including Rochester. He visits his wife to be, Mary Livingstone, who is a sales girl at the May Co. Jack is dressed in cowboy attire throughout much of the movie.

Besides his unique and unforgetable approach to humor, making a fool of himself and looking askance as people would respond to that, one of the serious things that Jack had to say and taught us was to purposely share the limelight with his staff. Lets say Jack had written his admissions in 1927 when he was on his way up. He would have admitted to believing in making everyone he touched in life a star in their own right. This is 180 degrees contrary to what LRH admitted in his 1947 admissions. I just noticed that when I think of Jack, my time track (memories) is all a pleasure moment, smooth, happy and uplifting while when I think of LRH, my time time track is a confused cocktail mix of being helped and also being degraded and giving up all my dynamics, except the 3rd, to service Ron's dynamics. Surely, there is a lesson to be learned here.
Lakey

 

[Blue Spirit]

Cognition

Lets say Jack had written his admissions in 1927 when he was on his way up. He would have admitted to believing in making everyone he touched in life a star in their own right. This is 180 degrees contrary to what LRH admitted in his 1947 admissions. I just noticed that when I think of Jack, my time track (memories) is all a pleasure moment, smooth, happy and uplifting while when I think of LRH, my time time track is a confused cocktail mix of being helped and also being degraded and giving up all my dynamics, except the 3rd, to service Ron's dynamics. Surely, there is a lesson to be learned here.
Lakey

Lakey, your post just gave me a cognition:

Besides all of the good people attracted to that side of LRH's personality

there have been people attracted to the Suppressive side of his personality

which has given them license to do whatever they wanted to satisfy their sadistic and enforcing side.

Some people have both in two separate valences and in those one never

knows which one he will be getting, and so never feels safe, as he is trying

to utilize the good side while nervously wondering when the bad side will show itself.

Lakey, your use of the word "degraded" is accurate.

So in summation Scientology, which has of course been said here many times, is a reflection of LRH.

MY RECENT EXPERIENCES CONFIRM THE ABOVE.

 

[lkwdblds]

Lakey, your post just gave me a cognition:

Good, Blue, that's what I am here for!
Besides all of the good people attracted to that side of LRH's personality

there have been people attracted to the Suppressive side of his personality

Somebody just brought this point up here or on another thread just recently.

which has given them license to do whatever they wanted to satisfy their sadistic and enforcing side.

This was also brought up, maybe it was you who posted it?

Some people have both in two separate valences and in those one never

knows which one he will be getting, and so never feels safe, as he is trying

to utilize the good side while nervously wondering when the bad side will show itself.

Good point, the same person with two valences, being attracted for both good and bad reasons. Interesting concept, I never pondered that before.

Lakey, your use of the word "degraded" is accurate.

So in summation Scientology, which has of course been said here many times, is a reflection of LRH.

MY RECENT EXPERIENCES CONFIRM THE ABOVE.

Yes, I know what you are talking about from what you PMed me. The one question I have remaining is whether LRH's good valence attempted to provide people with wins so as to really help them, or only as "window dressing" meant only to entice them to join up so he could obtain power over them and get their money. Up until very recently, I thought he had a good side and really had an urge to help mankind, but much to my dismay, I am only slowly being convinced that there was no such good side and the whole thing was 100% knowingly created for only money making, obtaining of power and a compulsion for self aggrandizement. Though people feel strongly both ways, I believe this is something I may never know with 100% certainty.

 

[Blue Spirit]

YES, He Does Have A Good Side

Yes, I know what you are talking about from what you PMed me. The one question I have remaining is whether LRH's good valence attempted to provide people with wins so as to really help them, or only as "window dressing" meant only to entice them to join up so he could obtain power over them and get their money. Up until very recently, I thought he had a good side and really had an urge to help mankind, but much to my dismay, I am only slowly being convinced that there was no such good side and the whole thing was 100% knowingly created for only money making, obtaining of power and a compulsion for self aggrandizement. Though people feel strongly both ways, I believe this is something I may never know with 100% certainty.

LRH does have a good side.

It is almost axiomatic with many obvious examples in my universe that Big Beings tend to have bigger cases.

They create the bigger case to have a bigger game (Game = Freedoms, Barriers (case), and Purposes)

Ron is a prime example of that.

I have two friends who are still in contact with him. He is around a lot.

The small net influence to me that has occurred is certainly on the positive side.

Also I should point out that your gains on Expanded Dianetics and other tech

applied were certainly worthwhile from what you said.


Lastly he has a mountain of tech and I find truth for me in most of it.

There are many on this board who did not get those benefits and so the slant

of this board is to finding his Bad side and then which he certainly did have and then merclessly hitting onit.

I'd be about the last to defend the Bad side.

Like most here I don't feel too happy about it, AND rather betrayed, truthfully.

This Slant though points out ONLY negative, saying he stole most of his work,

but I tend to see someone who looked at all the truths from before, before

taking the most useful parts to work out the workable tech. See the original Science of Survival list at the book front.

Following that he did originate much of the tech and then failed to grant the beingness of discovery to those contributing.

I'm reading the PAB's now and find much useful tech.

For instance due to the basic data in PAB 111 "Eyeglasses And Confront" I have dropped the need for glasses.


I do have a list somewhere on my disorganized desk (currently) of a single-spaced one page long of other discovery

people. I suspect a few of these were only compilers, but most were researchers, it seems.


Ultimately when I get a direct line with LRH, which will occur, I intend to tell him to get back in session and handle his

FUCKING CASE. I don't have a backoff on communicating with him, as BEA KIDDO also once said in a post about herself.

It is one of the most Ironic things that LRH made "Rock Slams" a punitive needle manifestation, (Note: I recommend Mary

Freeman's very uptone talk at the Freezone Convention where she says that "Rock Slams" were NOT punitive originally.

See YouTube under "kendaaron") and that backfired back to him when Otto Roos tried to confront him on his need to get

in session to handle his immediate illness as well as much more case, and made the cardinal mistake of indicating that he

had "Rock Slams" causing LRH to have a reaction of a severe missed withhold

(psychotic) and went ballistic getting rid of Otto AND the case folders. BIG MISTAKE !

Hopefully the next one to handle LRH will have good TR's and some damn good persistence.

I happen to be confronting a similar scene in P.T. with "LRH, Jr." (not his son, but a person totally in the LRH valence).
(note: There must be many in that valence.)


I think I'm getting your word disease Lakey, of being too wordy. (but I do enjoy your stories, mostly)


Long story short he had a good and playful side that was threatened too

often by some serious case that he let get the best of him. ("Seriousness = Mass" >LRH )

I do believe the explanation written up by Alan and some others that his case got the best of him starting in April, 1963, and went South from there. But I also believe that beings are basicly good; hard to have that with some !


Lastly, I did some conditions on LRH, and have decided to put his Good side above his Bad for mutual benefit.

I hasten to add that I'm NOT forgetting or even forgiving the Bad side considering all of the damage that did,

and expect him to confront it one day soon and handle it.

There aren't any "Jesus Christs" on this planet, not even Jesus Christ.


(Now it is time to hide under my big oak desk to prepare for the inevitable attacks from Veda, Mystic, and others.

 

[lkwdblds]

LRH does have a good side.

It is almost axiomatic with many obvious examples in my universe that Big Beings tend to have bigger cases.

I don't agree on this point. I cite Abraham Lincoln as a prime example of a Big Being that exhibited little case. Buddha is another example, Ghandi , Christ, Moses, Martin Luther King, George Washington, Mark Twain, Winston Churchill, the list is nearly endless.

They create the bigger case to have a bigger game (Game = Freedoms, Barriers (case), and Purposes)

Ron is a prime example of that.

For Big Beings who have a big case, Ron is an excellent example, I grant you that point.

I have two friends who are still in contact with him. He is around a lot.

I grant you beingness and accept this statement at face value. Before you invoke this type of assertion in defense of Ron, I would like to see some evidence. Just mentioning that he is still around does not mitigate the damages that are currently going on in his name. What is he doing to help clean up the mess which he created?

The small net influence to me that has occurred is certainly on the positive side.

Also I should point out that your gains on Expanded Dianetics and other tech

applied were certainly worthwhile from what you said.

I certainly believe I was helped by his tech, both receiving it and applying it to others. I have been attacked by some ESMB members for believing this. They have the right to assert that I got little or no gains, it does not bother me in the least. That is one of the positive features of operating in an open formum, where ideas of many wise people can be heard. Ron's way was a closed system where your only option was to duplicate his wisdom and believe that his word was holy scripture and could not possibly be wrong.

For decades, I believed I owed Ron so much for my gains that repayment to him was impossible. I have been thoroughly disabused of that belief. Every gain, real or imagined, which I got using Ron's tech, IS MINE TOTALLY, COMPLETELY MINE. I OWE HIM NOTHING ANY MORE. MY EXCHANGE IS IN WITH HIM!! I paid over $200,000 for my services, I quit my aerospace job to join his team. While working there, I gave 110% of my energies to reinforce Ron's dreams. Now, just turning 70 yesterday, because of giving so much of my earnings to him, I have no retirement fund and must go out and work daily in the construction business to put food on my table.

What is it in Ron's makeup that he created orgainzations which would not allow well meaning, bright, intelligent people who wanted to contribute to him, not to be able to do so without having themselves being broken down to quivering masses of jelly, and being declared degraded beings, Suppressive anti social and psychotic bengs, liars, embezzlers of his funds and other acts of slander and libel. All you offer in his defence is the fact that other Big Beings tend to have big cases and that he is still around talking to some of your friends.

Lastly he has a mountain of tech and I find truth for me in most of it.

I grant you this point althoug I would no longer use the word most of it and would say some of it. There are still people out there to deliver it such as Diana, Class VIII I am told. I know who this person is and I would trust being audited by her as well as Ken Urquhart whom I know of. Those two, though I don't know them personally are some of Scientology's finest exes.

There are many on this board who did not get those benefits and so the slant

of this board is to finding his Bad side and then which he certainly did have and then merclessly hitting onit.

I'd be about the last to defend the Bad side.

Like most here I don't feel too happy about it, AND rather betrayed, truthfully.

This Slant though points out ONLY negative, saying he stole most of his work,

I am glad you feel this way about Ron's dark side, that means that you can see the obvious and to me it means you are worth listening to. I've made it a sort of litmus test now as to whether to take someone seriously or not.

but I tend to see someone who looked at all the truths from before, before

taking the most useful parts to work out the workable tech. See the original Science of Survival list at the book front.

Following that he did originate much of the tech and then failed to grant the beingness of discovery to those contributing.

I'm reading the PAB's now and find much useful tech.

For instance due to the basic data in PAB 111 "Eyeglasses And Confront" I have dropped the need for glasses.


I do have a list somewhere on my disorganized desk (currently) of a single-spaced one page long of other discovery

people. I suspect a few of these were only compilers, but most were researchers, it seems.


Ultimately when I get a direct line with LRH, which will occur, I intend to tell him to get back in session and handle his

FUCKING CASE. I don't have a backoff on communicating with him, as BEA KIDDO also once said in a post about herself.

It is one of the most Ironic things that LRH made "Rock Slams" a punitive needle manifestation, (Note: I recommend Mary

Freeman's very uptone talk at the Freezone Convention where she says that "Rock Slams" were NOT punitive originally.

I am really pleased about what you just said, but if Ron is this huge being as you say he is, why does he need someone like you to help him get his Ethics in. Really large beings should be able to rise above their banks for the common good without their rank and file followers having to assist them. Otherwise, how can they be considered really large beings?

See YouTube under "kendaaron") and that backfired back to him when Otto Roos tried to confront him on his need to get

in session to handle his immediate illness as well as much more case, and made the cardinal mistake of indicating that he

had "Rock Slams" causing LRH to have a reaction of a severe missed withhold

(psychotic) and went ballistic getting rid of Otto AND the case folders. BIG MISTAKE !

Hopefully the next one to handle LRH will have good TR's and some damn good persistence.

I happen to be confronting a similar scene in P.T. with "LRH, Jr." (not his son, but a person totally in the LRH valence).
(note: There must be many in that valence.)


I think I'm getting your word disease Lakey, of being too wordy. (but I do enjoy your stories, mostly)


Long story short he had a good and playful side that was threatened too

often by some serious case that he let get the best of him. ("Seriousness = Mass" >LRH )

I do believe the explanation written up by Alan and some others that his case got the best of him starting in April, 1963, and went South from there. But I also believe that beings are basicly good; hard to have that with some !


Lastly, I did some conditions on LRH, and have decided to put his Good side above his Bad for mutual benefit.

I hasten to add that I'm NOT forgetting or even forgiving the Bad side considering all of the damage that did,

and expect him to confront it one day soon and handle it.

There aren't any "Jesus Christs" on this planet, not even Jesus Christ.


(Now it is time to hide under my big oak desk to prepare for the inevitable attacks from Veda, Mystic, and others.

Blue S., you are not going to be attacked by me. I've PMed with you and know where you are coming from. I want you to be right about Ron, God, I hope you are right with all my heart. Its just that with all that I've learned about the inner working of Scn, C of S, and Ron himself, and as an honest man seking truth, it is getting harder and harder to believe that Ron has a good side. I would like nothing better than to have that proved to me and my communication lines are wide open for that to occur but as of right now, I am heading in the other direction, going from total certainty that all his tech was correct to my current state where I am leaning toward the concept that the whole operation was a HELLUVA HOAX, to quote are fellow board member, and that any good tech was but there as bait to lure in the suckers.

I hope I can have my mind changed back, at least partially. I admire your efforts to present the other side of the case, i.e., Ron's positive side. Carry on and convince me. If the attacks come your way, allow the attackers the right to believe as they do and continue moving forward as you are now doing................Lakey

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

bi polar gpm tech in the freezone

Would you two want to take this over to:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=14524


?

 

[Blue Spirit]

I Appreciate Your Honest Comm

Blue S., you are not going to be attacked by me. I've PMed with you and know where you are coming from. I want you to be right about Ron, God, I hope you are right with all my heart. Its just that with all that I've learned about the inner working of Scn, C of S, and Ron himself, and as an honest man seking truth, it is getting harder and harder to believe that Ron has a good side. I would like nothing better than to have that proved to me and my communication lines are wide open for that to occur but as of right now, I am heading in the other direction, going from total certainty that all his tech was correct to my current state where I am leaning toward the concept that the whole operation was a HELLUVA HOAX, to quote are fellow board member, and that any good tech was but there as bait to lure in the suckers.

I hope I can have my mind changed back, at least partially. I admire your efforts to present the other side of the case, i.e., Ron's positive side. Carry on and convince me. If the attacks come your way, allow the attackers the right to believe as they do and continue moving forward as you are now doing................Lakey

It is too late to write much more tonight, but I'd like to add one thing.

I'm sure LRH almost fell into fame initially because of the Dianetics hitting the

public's reality correctly at the optimum time. I have another friend who was

at the original talk at the Shrine in L.A. in June, 1950 I believe.

Point being that he, LRH was overwhelmed by the response and I he was basicly

overwhelmed as a being and felt out of control, and then fell back on some of his essential charisma quality.

From that point he managed poorly and had some bad experiences so that

directed him toward a resistive personality in part, but not wholly.


Other Big Beings (beings with lots of space and in control of large amounts of

energy) were attracted to Ron and/or the game.

The POINT of this post IS:

It appears that he was playing the "King-of-the-Mountain" game we played as

kids and whenever a bigger being than himself showed up like Alan Walter or

John McMaster or Pam & Ray Kemp and most likely many others he felt like he

might not keep control and so reactively HIT them from his Suppressive

Valence side. This eventually led to him losing all his In-person allies and

dying alone and in a very aberrated state, really psychotic at the end until he kicked.

In contrast when Alan recently departed he had many friends come out

saying he was in contact and was doing well. Alan, sanely could have friends

without generally being too competitive.


I had a fantastic best ever Thanksgiving because at my table was the real

first numbered clear (#1 was taken for "Johnny Mac" for PR reasons) and

those two who still have a line with LRH. One of them has a line with Alan too.

We had an amazing theta time.

The other with a line to LRH told us the story of how he perfected recovery

tech of people to the Bridge, mostly Past Life Clears and was not only blocked

at every turn to disseminate this data (his was the best seminar I ever did

while in, and I've done them all) but had no where to send them as AOLA

fucked up every cycle he sent them. Finally he sends his 50-page correction

of the tech in to "deservedly" earn his "Declare Diploma".

DM can't have anyone going free you know, as that would cause him excruciating personal pain.

That is the short version of a long story.

Of the three mentioned above, I've got one to register here and am working

on the other two to tell there stories.

MORE TO COME.

 

[lkwdblds]

Hi Carmelo

Would you two want to take this over to:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=14524


?

Hi Carmelo - Yes we were having so much fun studying the nuances of Jack Benny and the great eateries, the old TV and radio shows of old time L.A., etc. and Blue Spirit had to go and bring up something serious. I was on that link above about 4 days ago and saw Roger B.'s video's, I think this stuff does belong over there and would contribute to that thread better than this one. I'll check with Bluey and maybe will transfer it over.

This website, which just started out as my personal story of leaving C of S has gone far beyond those limited parameters and since the CCLA story is nearly told, I have been trying to find some related topics to CCLA in the 1970's to keep up interest. I agree that Blue's post is outside the parameters but Carmelo, you know me, I will never back away from a challenge to address a new topic or to help a comrade or friend in need. I sense Blue was looking to me to comment on his ideas, I did take on that challenge and so far no regrets.

ALERT, ALERT, ALERT - Vinnaire, on his !Oh, God!! thread just posted a link to www.mrfire.com having to do with the Ho' oponopono process touted by Alan Walters to Vinnaire. I read the text in less than 10 minutes. This material looks simple, but there is more to it than meets the eye. I think that by applying this principle, we could have achieive somethin akin to Clearing the Planet and do it very rapidly on an exponential growth curve and at a dollar cost of $0. If one is properly set up to do the process, I think the gains are at least as large as one advanced OT level and could possibly be much larger. Check it out!!!

Lakey

 

[Blue Spirit]

A Couple More Short? Points

Lakey, I have some answer to your question of:

"What is he (LRH) doing to clean up the mess which he created ?"

Both persons I know that are in comm with him agree on LRH's viewpoint,

which is essentially that the ball is in your court, meaning he is awaiting enough OT's to play with.

The actual most recent comm came to me as "You must use your "Necessity Level".

Regardless of any leader, be it LRH, Alan Walter or someone else there is a great shortage of OT's to do anything of value.

One being alone does not make for much power, no matter who he is.

LRH gave it a good stab.

Alan Walter did also.

RogerB is doing higher research and so are others.


The point that drives me crazy is that we Freedom Seekers are so very

exceptionally dispersed WAITING for something to happen when we have to do

it ourselves. I have one idea of what to do, but likely it will come too late.

We are waiting for the "Church" to fold. Who gives a FUCK !

We need to be organizing in the LRH-Approved Freezone (approved in the

1950's, as well recently from the info I have pulled in, and totally IGNORE and

OUT-CREATE the "Church". They let most of the original Copyrights laspe anyway and

THAT is why DM is so desparately trying to get rid of the older books and

sell "The Basics", but technically only the minor changes are copyrightable,

NOT the main body of the Basic books with the essential substance still there.

So we have the Tech and it is ours to use. Most or all is on the net. Get it while it is available.


Also Lakey, as far as the Tech is concerned the only parts that are of real

use to you are the parts that you have used yourself and are TRUE for you.

That is basic Integrity. It is a hell of a lot of work and can only be done by oneself.

I face the exact same situation from not a good position.

MORE TO COME.

 

[Blue Spirit]

My Weakness

Would you two want to take this over to:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=14524
?

My weakness is getting things where they should be.

I need to originate many threads that I have in mind.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

ALERT, ALERT, ALERT - Vinnaire, on his !Oh, God!! thread just posted a link to www.myfire.com having to do with the Ho' oponopono process touted by Alan Walters to Vinnaire. I read the text in less than 10 minutes. This material looks simple, but there is more to it than meets the eye. I think that by applying this principle, we could have achieive somethin akin to Clearing the Planet and do it very rapidly on an exponential growth curve and at a dollar cost of $0. If one is properly set up to do the process, I think the gains are at least as large as one advanced OT level and could possibly be much larger. Check it out!!!

Lakey

When i click on the link, it transfers me to a fireplace store

http://www.thehearthshoppe.com/

 

[lkwdblds]

Blue Spirit - Should we take this topic to another thread?

Bluey - What are your thoughts that this thread is not appropriate for this discussion and that Roger B's thread would be a better venue? If we take it over there, I will still particpate vigorously but the public over there is more in tune with your subject. Corrrect me if I am wrong.

BIG BEINGS -We can't go around making excuses for our Big Beings. If we do so then the term Big Being is an Oxymoron.

Example of making an excuse for a supposed Big Being: It was not Hitler's fault that Brtiain would not surrender to Germany after Dunkirk and that Brittain had better radar and fighter planes in the Battle of Brittain than the Germans did. Its not fair and because Brittain did not do what Hitler expected, poor Adolf keyed in some of his GPMs and took things out on those nasty Russians. He had every reason to believe they were lazy, shiftless subhuman Slavics and no reason to suspect that they would fight with just as much determinination tenacity and skill as his Master Race. This keyed in Hitlers R6 Bank and he kind of went of the rails and killed millions of Jews to get even.

My point is that if you have to make a lot of excuses for a supposed big being to explain away his failures then BY DEFINITION, the person is not a Big Being. I do not believe Hitler was a big being but merely a sociopathetic personality who gained control of a governmental seat of power in a country with advanced science and military capabilities for its time. From this base of power, this sick being with a big bank was able to dramatize his fantasies until he lied dead in total defeat and took 50 million people with him.
Lakey

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Hi Carmelo - Yes we were having so much fun studying the nuances of Jack Benny and the great eateries, the old TV and radio shows of old time L.A., etc. and Blue Spirit had to go and bring up something serious. I was on that link above about 4 days ago and saw Roger B.'s video's, I think this stuff does belong over there and would contribute to that thread better than this one. I'll check with Bluey and maybe will transfer it over.

This website, which just started out as my personal story of leaving C of S has gone far beyond those limited parameters and since the CCLA story is nearly told, I have been trying to find some related topics to CCLA in the 1970's to keep up interest. I agree that Blue's post is outside the parameters but Carmelo, you know me, I will never back away from a challenge to address a new topic or to help a comrade or friend in need. I sense Blue was looking to me to comment on his ideas, I did take on that challenge and so far no regrets.[/B]

Lakey

I suggested Roger's link because there are plenty of people who don't tolerate tech discussions.

In the Freezone section, it's OK. I would not feel as though I was stepping on others' toes there. Here, I do.

I would start with man is not basically good. I think we are all cut from the same cloth, and move from there to inductive logic - I am not all good. I can vouch for this. LRH was not all good or bad. The origins of this are in the way we broke from the oneness of God......

you see this is not the thread for my thoughts on your thoughts.

 

[lkwdblds]

Carmelo, I had a typo and just corrected it.

When i click on the link, it transfers me to a fireplace store

http://www.thehearthshoppe.com/

Carmelo, I made a typo of one letter wrong and just went back and corrected it. The correct website name is www.mrfire.com (I had myfire, instead of mrfire). If for some reason that does not work, then go to Vinnaires !Oh,God!! site and go to the last page and to Vin's last post and the link is given there and it worked for me to get me over. You are in for a real treat. Hurry up, go out and get into your Maxwell and drive back to your pc so you can link to this website.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

I suggested Roger's link because there are plenty of people who don't tolerate tech discussions.

In the Freezone section, it's OK. I would not feel as though I was stepping on others' toes there. Here, I do.

I would start with man is not basically good. I think we are all cut from the same cloth, and move from there to inductive logic - I am not all good. I can vouch for this. LRH was not all good or bad. The origins of this are in the way we broke from the oneness of God......

you see this is not the thread for my thoughts on your thoughts.

I catch your drift and agree with your point. Blue Spirit says he will add more soon, and I recommended he add it over there. If he wants my participation, I will participate just as vigorously there as I would here. I am hoping he will move the discussion over there. You have done a lot to expand my thread so beyond the standard courtesy I would give to a suggestion from someone who posts here, I would give much more consideration to your ideas and requests than that since you have been sort of co hosting this website for a while now.

Don't worry, on that score, I am fully of the Jack Benny school of sharing the limelight rather than LRH's school of not allowing anyone else to share it with him. I aware that you have pitched in and helped me out and I really appreciate your efforts!

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Bluey - What are your thoughts that this thread is not appropriate for this discussion and that Roger B's thread would be a better venue? If we take it over there, I will still particpate vigorously but the public over there is more in tune with your subject. Corrrect me if I am wrong.

BIG BEINGS -We can't go around making excuses for our Big Beings. If we do so then the term Big Being is an Oxymoron.

Example of making an excuse for a supposed Big Being: It was not Hitler's fault that Brtiain would not surrender to Germany after Dunkirk and that Brittain had better radar and fighter planes in the Battle of Brittain than the Germans did. Its not fair and because Brittain did not do what Hitler expected, poor Adolf keyed in some of his GPMs and took things out on those nasty Russians. He had every reason to believe they were lazy, shiftless subhuman Slavics and no reason to suspect that they would fight with just as much determinination tenacity and skill as his Master Race. This keyed in Hitlers R6 Bank and he kind of went of the rails and killed millions of Jews to get even.

My point is that if you have to make a lot of excuses for a supposed big being to explain away his failures then BY DEFINITION, the person is not a Big Being. I do not believe Hitler was a big being but merely a sociopathetic personality who gained control of a governmental seat of power in a country with advanced science and military capabilities for its time. From this base of power, this sick being with a big bank was able to dramatize his fantasies until he lied dead in total defeat and took 50 million people with him.
Lakey

I had a PC once, who in this lifetime was a Jew. (back to the Jewish thread). In this lifetime, before Scientology auditing, this schemeggie had a picture of the Fuhrer in his office. This schmuck (forgive my French), had been tried at Nuremberg, and executed. He still loved the Fuhrer 50 years later!

After I audited him, he started taking responsibility for his heinous actions in the earlier lifetime. He ended up losing all his money, and getting a good piece of what he had dished out back then. I can't say I was sorry.

That is one of the consequences of good auditing. There had been a guy at ASHO in 69, who was a hit man, and a very good hit man. He went Clear, and immediately got arrested and sent up the river for 13 years. He had a wife and kids. he lost a lot. But last time I checked, when someone gets killed, they lose a lot too.

It's not always an eye for an eye retributive karma. i had a lover, who had killed a dude in a drug deal gone bad ( a him or me kind of thing). Auditing rehabilitated that person's life and goals and dreams.

Then there was the dude at my car mechanics garage. one day I saw him hitting his fist into the corrugated metal walls as hard as he could. I took him aside and gave him some CCHs and O/W, and some other stuff. I came back two more days and ran him on a few things. He ended up going to the police and manning up to crimes and working out jail time, fines, the sheet. Then one day he was driving somewhere, and he heard shouts for help. There was a building on fire. The fire department hadn't arrived yet. He rushed into the burning building and saved a woman, a child and a cat. He got burned, but karma wise he got clean.

 

[nexus100]

I had a PC once, who in this lifetime was a Jew. (back to the Jewish thread). In this lifetime, before Scientology auditing, this schemeggie had a picture of the Fuhrer in his office. This schmuck (forgive my French), had been tried at Nuremberg, and executed. He still loved the Fuhrer 50 years later!

After I audited him, he started taking responsibility for his heinous actions in the earlier lifetime. He ended up losing all his money, and getting a good piece of what he had dished out back then. I can't say I was sorry.

That is one of the consequences of good auditing. There had been a guy at ASHO in 69, who was a hit man, and a very good hit man. He went Clear, and immediately got arrested and sent up the river for 13 years. He had a wife and kids. he lost a lot. But last time I checked, when someone gets killed, they lose a lot too.

It's not always an eye for an eye retributive karma. i had a lover, who had killed a dude in a drug deal gone bad ( a him or me kind of thing). Auditing rehabilitated that person's life and goals and dreams.

Good God.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Good God.

yeah? who says?

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

ALERT, ALERT, ALERT - Vinnaire, on his !Oh, God!! thread just posted a link to www.mrfire.com having to do with the Ho' oponopono process touted by Alan Walters to Vinnaire. I read the text in less than 10 minutes. This material looks simple, but there is more to it than meets the eye. I think that by applying this principle, we could have achieive somethin akin to Clearing the Planet and do it very rapidly on an exponential growth curve and at a dollar cost of $0. If one is properly set up to do the process, I think the gains are at least as large as one advanced OT level and could possibly be much larger. Check it out!!!

Lakey

I can't find this for the life of me. Can you post an exact URL?

 

[nexus100]

yeah? who says?

I suppose we all trim our reality sails pretty fine at times. And goodness knows most of the universe remains safely untouched by my understanding.

However, the exposure of a giant karmic circle, released through good Scientology auditing to wreak revenge on various misbegotten souls of earth while leaving others untouched-this concept takes my breath away, seriously.