The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[RogerB]

Hmmmm . . . .

Roger, I got a lot out of reading your reply post to Mark, especially the second paragraph and I have put in bold type the phrases that I found extremely powerful. The data which you put forth in paragraph 2 is readily assimilable by any well informed layman. This material should be part of everyone's hat write up on how to live life. The people of Germany should have known this data and had they possessed these couple of lines, and if those lines were taught in their schools, WWII might have been averted.

QUESTIION CONCERNING MANKIND'S INVENTIONS AND WHAT THEY CALL "TECH".


My question is this, from a technical point of view, spiritual technology and not electronic gizmos, do you feel that the Internet can better conditions spiritually here on Earth.? I can sit in a small room at home or even outside at tableside at some nice restaurant in Los Angeles and speak to someone live and with a live picture and talk for free to another person in Europe or Australia. It is really a miracle and something I thought might not be possible for another 100 years and it is here today.

I would like your technical opinion as to whether there is a chance that this invention can improve life here Earth. If you also have a personal opinion or common sense type opinion, I would like to hear it as well.
Lakey

Personally, I'm not in accord with Carmelo's bald and rather too negative statement that: "If you look at us, the world's people, you will find **HISTORICALLY SPEAKING** that any GOOD invention gets used for EVIL."

It is more accurate to say that any good invention can be used evilly, and history shows it often is.

It is also the fact that good inventions are invariably also used for good.

History shows humankind has advanced, even if with catastrophic fits and starts and bouts of being seriously challenged by evil.

Any improved system of knowledge exchange advanced both the "spiritual" and physical well being of the society exposed to it. You simply have to look at the passage of discoveries from the early writing technique, the use of tablets, then storable papryus and velum to make books and onto the invention of the printing press, and then onto the knowledge exchange advances of the 20th century prior to the internet.

Of course, if knowledge exchange techniques/systems do not advance (as happened in Asia and the Middle East till recently) . . . . then you do not get any advances in such societies.

Western civilization has become vastly more spiritually literate and enlightened in the last 100 years and it has accelerated in the last 50-60 years.

And yes, there will be some who will seek to either suppress or enturbulate and misdirect these advances and exchanges of knowledge. We even see it on this board. The current battle between China and Google is an example of this. China currently does not want unrestricted, free and open exchange of knowledge for its people . . . . though it will loose the battle. The good and decent people in China will find a way around the barriers.

All it takes for the good that is inherent in us to continue to express itself and forward our advance as a civilization is for the good and intelligent guys among us to continue to stand tall, speak up, exchange knowledge and worthwhile ideas in civil discourse based on the attempt to learn and/or inform; and the good will express itself more forcefully than the idiotic and bad.

Where would our civilization be today if Copernicus and Galileo had not had the courage to speak the truth of their discoveries in the face of the threats and suppression of truth of the Catholic Church? Think about it.

Which, by the way, is why I so honor the guys in Oz for their stand for the truth and have no respect for the types who pontificate in hiding and in anonymity.

So, to answer your simple question with a simple answer: YES!

Oh, and by the way, it does not matter that some of the spiritual techs are incomplete or even to a degree superficial or erroneous . . . as long as folks exchange the knowledge they have in good faith as rapidly as possible, we will win hands down.

Rog

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Your Spiritual thought for the day...

In light of what Roger just shared with us, and Carmelo's concern for the need to advance Spiritual Technology, I think loving intention and presence will carry much of the work forward with little effort...despite the our stylistic, cultural or technical differences (but then I'm in that right-brained dominant camp )

Here's a lovely quote to prepare us for Valentine's day, when we can celebrate all kinds of Love:

"Being greatly beloved gives you strength.

Loving someone greatly gives you courage."

Lao Tsu

Notice how either way, it's a GIFT???

We all need more strength and courage to accomplish our goals, and also to help support others as they grow and accomplish more of their own.

To me Love is the key to all Spiritual growth and real Power.

And the fun thing about it is, the more you give away, the more you have to give, and the more you get in return! It flows in connected circuts or pathways between all Spiritually awake and aware beings, like my good buddys here!

 

[lkwdblds]

Thank you for this INSPIRATIONAL POST!

Personally, I'm not in accord with Carmelo's bald and rather too negative statement that: "If you look at us, the world's people, you will find **HISTORICALLY SPEAKING** that any GOOD invention gets used for EVIL."

It is more accurate to say that any good invention can be used evilly, and history shows it often is.

It is also the fact that good inventions are invariably also used for good.

History shows humankind has advanced, even if with catastrophic fits and starts and bouts of being seriously challenged by evil.

Any improved system of knowledge exchange advanced both the "spiritual" and physical well being of the society exposed to it. You simply have to look at the passage of discoveries from the early writing technique, the use of tablets, then storable papryus and velum to make books and onto the invention of the printing press, and then onto the knowledge exchange advances of the 20th century prior to the internet.

Of course, if knowledge exchange techniques/systems do not advance (as happened in Asia and the Middle East till recently) . . . . then you do not get any advances in such societies.

Western civilization has become vastly more spiritually literate and enlightened in the last 100 years and it has accelerated in the last 50-60 years.

And yes, there will be some who will seek to either suppress or enturbulate and misdirect these advances and exchanges of knowledge. We even see it on this board. The current battle between China and Google is an example of this. China currently does not want unrestricted, free and open exchange of knowledge for its people . . . . though it will loose the battle. The good and decent people in China will find a way around the barriers.

All it takes for the good that is inherent in us to continue to express itself and forward our advance as a civilization is for the good and intelligent guys among us to continue to stand tall, speak up, exchange knowledge and worthwhile ideas in civil discourse based on the attempt to learn and/or inform; and the good will express itself more forcefully than the idiotic and bad.

Where would our civilization be today if Copernicus and Galileo had not had the courage to speak the truth of their discoveries in the face of the threats and suppression of truth of the Catholic Church? Think about it.

Which, by the way, is why I so honor the guys in Oz for their stand for the truth and have no respect for the types who pontificate in hiding and in anonymity.

So, to answer your simple question with a simple answer: YES!

Oh, and by the way, it does not matter that some of the spiritual techs are incomplete or even to a degree superficial or erroneous . . . as long as folks exchange the knowledge they have in good faith as rapidly as possible, we will win hands down.

Rog

Thank you so very much Rog, this post really answered my question, in fact it totally handled many of my questions! I had no idea how you would respond, none whatsoever. I was very happy with your responses; my feelings on virtually everything you talked about were in lock step with what you were saying. You said it all so perfectly and I felt very invigorated and inspired by your post, really just blown out! It is really a GREAT POST! It gives one hope plus a purpose to pursue and a reason for being. We are very lucky to have you posting here, Rog.
Lakey

 

[Leon]

Well Roger, I’m always willing to give anyone the benefit of the doubt, so I have now re-listened to your Pasadena talks and I see no reason there to change much of what I wrote in my earlier post to you.

Re the “split” - you say yourself that in this life as a human it is not that bad (and this I agree with entirely) but that back on the backtrack when we were all more OT it is the living dynamite (words to that effect) and this I agree with too. Back then we had much more horse-power and so all incidents were so much huger and more catastrophic. All agreed. But my point was that this split is no different to the Emotional Curve described in earlier materials of LRH’s. The backtrack intensity was not run by LRH - you and Alan did dig into that and found it - but the basic observation of the existence of the “split” is all there in LRH’s own writings. You may disagree with that and that is all fine by me. I find the similarity quite as clear as daylight, and this in no way diminishes or negates what you and Alan did or found. In no way.

I will add further that Dennis Stephens found it as well and described it and the reasons for it - refer to his Insanity Point talks. It’s all there and more.

Secondly: this is a snip from my earlier post: 1st tape. 5.42 from the start. You talk of two terminals with complementary postulates - a Causer and a Receiver, which positions they hold alternately, and then you say: “As the game starts to descend down the Tone Scale you start getting stuck . . .” My question is why would they descend down scale? This is not explained. What you describe is perfect comm, both winning at it - so from where the downsliding?

It should be 2nd tape, not 1st. You say you didn't call them “complementary” - fine, snip that out and my sentence/query stands as it should be.

You express disbelief at my asking “from where the downsliding?” You talk in your presentation of the fact that all games need not have opposing terminals, and this is perfectly correct. But with no opposition in the game and all activities being indeed “complementary”, then where and why does the game “descend down the Tone Scale”? You give no explanation for this.

Later in your reply to me you say “ . . . it only takes one, simple, single misalignment of Life-Force or one non-comprehension that is and remains unhandled, and down you go!” I don’t know quite what you mean by a “misalignment of Life-Force”, perhaps you could clarify it, but it sounds to me that this perfect comm of the Causer and the Receiver got tangled up into opposing postulates. No?

Third: We need to recognise clearly that there is in this universe (or any other universe) ONLY Life and the postulates made by Life. That’s all there is, nothing else. This is basic. So anything we find in this universe of ours is the result of postulates made and/or agreed to (however grudgingly) by us ourselves. Saying, as you do, that the K to M Scale buttons are not postulates - of course they are! He says there that the first postulate was Knowingness.

Vinaire’s writings on Brahma are very instructive in this area. One cannot really talk of “pure potential” because the word potential is meaningless unless there is some direction, or focus, to the potential. And as soon as you say something like “potential knowingness” you have already taken a step away from Brahma.

I spoke of LRH not being consistent in what he gave as first postulate and in your exerpts to refute me you in fact give support to my assertions. In your talk you go even further and agree with what I say, that Not-Know cannot possibly be the first postulate, and you also say “first should be . . .. to relate, to love, to know”.

What I was getting at - if you read my post - is that “To know” cannot be the first postulate either. And for that matter neither can “to relate” or “to love”. These are all responses given by the being to outside phenomena. Love whom? Or what? Relate to whom or what? Know what? These are all two-terminal (at minimum) activities and so the other terminal must be observed to be there a priori. So they are not first postulates. They are effect postulates, given in response to existing perceptions.

The first postulate can only be one where one presents something for others to perceive/observe/know. This is one’s entry into the universe, probably the adoption and presentation of a beingness of some sort. It is why creativity, aesthetcs, is the ninth dynamic. This first postulate which one presents can be accepted by others and fun can be had, or it can be negated by others, in which case a declining games-condition will ensue. And that too can be fun.

Fact is that while it is quite true that all games do not require opposition terminals in order to be a game, yet it will be found that those games which lead to aberration ALL have such opposition terminals.

I notice too that on your tape 3 at about 5.55 you state - apropos the running of one’s past identities - you say one has to also run how these identities opposed each other. Interesting, and I’m sure perfectly correct.

= = = = =

In this universe there is only Life and Postulates. Nothing else.

All successes, wins, rises in Tone Level, etc, are the result of postulate success. One’s own postulates.

All upsets, aberrations, ARC breaks, Service Facs, implants, losses, declines in Tone Level etc, are the result of postulate failure and the enforcement upon one of another’s postulate which one then “has to live with”.

There are no exceptions to this. It is how the universe is stitched together.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Stormy Weather Watch in California

Sorry to break in on this thread, but California is experiencing the worst winter storm of this new Century.

Click on this for a picture of the most recent damage:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/album.php?albumid=6&pictureid=149

 

[hbeer]

Sorry to break in on this thread, but California is experiencing the worst winter storm of this new Century.

Click on this for a picture of the most recent damage:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/album.php?albumid=6&pictureid=149

Yeah, that looks serious. Wow! I didn't know California had so ferocious storms!



.

 

[hbeer]

Sorry about the Skype not working yet, I'll Skype you from Alex's lap top tomorrow instead.

Great Skype talk, Lakey. Seeing each other on the web cam adds all the bits and pieces that the writing doesn't reflect.

No wonder that the airlines go broke, if people don't need to buy tickets anymore in order to meet



.

 

[lkwdblds]

Yeah, that looks serious. Wow! I didn't know California had so ferocious storms!



.

Heidrun - Sure, California is a large State in area! About 10% larger than all of Germany and 10% smaller than Iraq. It has montains, nearly 5000 meters tall, vast deserts, forests, valleys, and of course an extremely long coastline. Any type of weather you are looking for, you may find in California! Arctic type chills may be the one exception but even there, as you drive from Sacremento to Lake Tahoe, shared by California and Nevada, you go through the high Sierras, a mountainous region and heavy snows and icy temperatures can be experienced there.

Skype For about $35 for a combination web cam and microphone, you can talk free as long as you like and see the person you are talking to, anywhere in the world that has internet service. Mates visiting the US from Oz can sit outside in a trendy California restaurant or in New York on 5th Ave. and communicate with their friends and loved ones back in Oz. For $35 and perhaps 10 minutes to install it on most up to date computers you can move into the future. As MEST objects go, it probably gives you a bigger bang for your dollar than any other MEST object.

Carmelo Thanks for your enjoyable photo slide show. Of all the outstanding photos, the one of the Dog really caught my eye, so much personality in that dog's face and those huge blue eyes - incredible!
Lakey

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Heidrun - Sure, California is a large State in area! About 10% larger than all of Germany and 10% smaller than Iraq. It has montains, nearly 5000 meters, vast deserts, forests, valleys, and of course an extremely long coastline. Any type of weather you are looking for, you may find in California! Arctic type chills may be the one exception but even there, as you drive from Sacremento to Lake Tahoe, shared by California and Nevada, you go through the high Sierras, a mountainous region and heavy snows and icy temperatures can be experienced there.

I can go from a sunny beach town to the ski slopes in 4 hours.
Even in May, we have gone through Tahoe in the snow with the four wheel drive on ** passing all the poor saps who had to pull over and put on chains**

Skype For about $35 for a combination web cam and microphone, you can talk free as long as you like and see the person you are talking to, anywhere in the world that has internet service. Mates visiting the US from Oz can sit outside in a trendy California restaurant or in New York on 5th Ave. and communicate with their friends and loved ones back in Oz. For $35 and perhaps 10 minutes to install it on most up to date computers you can move into the future. As MEST objects go, it probably gives you the best bang for your dollar than any other MEST object.

Our youngest daughter has lived all over the world. I can hear our daughter talking in another room of our house, and it turns out that she is in Abidjan, Cote D' Ivoire or Shanghai in an internet cafe or hotel lobby. We keep in touch with the kids more through Skype, e mail, IM, and cell phones than we do in person.

It can be pleasant just sitting working at the computer sharing the space with someone else working at their computer 5,000 miles away. The sounds and sights of parrots and people talking and interacting in the background.

Carmelo Thanks for your enjoyable photo slide show. Of all the outstanding photos, the one of the Dog really caught my eye, so much personality in that dog's face and those huge blue eyes - incredible!

I would have thought that you would have commented on the Disneyland and Knott's Berry Farm photos from the 1950s.

I like the photo album capacity of ESMB. It's like a mini facebook.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Regarding RogerB's post

let's just say, that I would feel uncomfortable if a discovery I made about the key workings of beings, with the intention of helping them, was used by the CIA, KGB, Mossad, etc for better interrogating or torturing or warring.

I'm looking at tech that would dissolve Win / Lose thinking. - would enhance Win /Win thinking.

If you know people's weak links or spots, you can open them up to slavery (see the Sea Org for example) or you can help them be stronger, smarter, self reliant, more independent.

I'm looking at keeping highly basic technology inoperable by bad guys.

 

[RogerB]

let's just say, that I would feel uncomfortable if a discovery I made about the key workings of beings, with the intention of helping them, was used by the CIA, KGB, Mossad, etc for better interrogating or torturing or warring.

I'm looking at tech that would dissolve Win / Lose thinking. - would enhance Win /Win thinking.

If you know people's weak links or spots, you can open them up to slavery (see the Sea Org for example) or you can help them be stronger, smarter, self reliant, more independent.

I'm looking at keeping highly basic technology inoperable by bad guys.

Carmelo, I think that is a great idea

Keep me instantly apprised of your progress on such . . . I'm the first to support it

Until you've solved it though, I'm going to work on taking myself up to the condition where whatever the baddies do they won't be able to affect or upset me. And when I'm there, I'll let ya'll know how to do it so you too can be proofed . . . now that should f**k them baddies up, no?

Hey, then they can screw with each other and leave we goodies alone! Right on! Now that's an idea whose time has come

Rog

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Sorry to break in on this thread, but California is experiencing the worst winter storm of this new Century.

Click on this for a picture of the most recent damage:

I'm enjoying the rain. Besides we ALWAYS need the water. Too bad most of it is just going to flow straight to the sea. Most of the problems being experienced here are as a result of feckless & irresponsible real estate development and population growth.


Mark A. Baker

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

I'm enjoying the rain. Besides we ALWAYS need the water. Too bad most of it is just going to flow straight to the sea. Most of the problems being experienced here are as a result of feckless & irresponsible real estate development and population growth.


Mark A. Baker

what there is plenty of, is not valued.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Carmelo, I think that is a great idea

Keep me instantly apprised of your progress on such . . . I'm the first to support it

Until you've solved it though, I'm going to work on taking myself up to the condition where whatever the baddies do they won't be able to affect or upset me. And when I'm there, I'll let ya'll know how to do it so you too can be proofed . . . now that should f**k them baddies up, no?

Hey, then they can screw with each other and leave we goodies alone! Right on! Now that's an idea whose time has come

Rog

Roger,

i am writing this for more than just you. I would say things much differently on the phone.

I think that it is reasonable to say, that I am relatively "bulletproof" in terms of key ins, integrity breakability quotient, etc. I'm not easily intimidated.

As I see it, beginning with the word integrity, meaning wholeness, one needs to get beyond (read this as bigger) than self, as a first dynamic. One needs to know / experience self as all of the dynamics, especially the 8th. Being connected and responsible for the full breath and depth.

This would mean getting beyond the flip flop of positive and negative. Seeing oneself as bigger and more inclusive of both core poles to GPMs.

If the auditing line up took one to that point, then the PC completion would not be a candidate for waterboarding prisoners or running Ponzi schemes. Their inner core value ethics would not allow it.

If we are going to change the world, we need to have a tech and admin that isn't easily flipped as the culture of Scientology was.

I see this as a first benchmark.

 

[lkwdblds]

Dissolving Win / Lose thinking

let's just say, that I would feel uncomfortable if a discovery I made about the key workings of beings, with the intention of helping them, was used by the CIA, KGB, Mossad, etc for better interrogating or torturing or warring.

I'm looking at tech that would dissolve Win / Lose thinking. - would enhance Win /Win thinking.

If you know people's weak links or spots, you can open them up to slavery (see the Sea Org for example) or you can help them be stronger, smarter, self reliant, more independent.

I'm looking at keeping highly basic technology inoperable by bad guys.

Carmelo, a tech that would dissolve Win / Lose thinking and enhance Win / Win thinking would sure be a boon to humanity if it could be gotten in. Was not Hubbard's Grade IV running out of one's Service Facsimile a big first step in this direction? I had mine run out on Grade IV and then found another big one while doing Expanded Dianetics (XDN). I feel pretty much handled on this key area of living. I must give Hubbard credit for this even though I do not like what he has done in so many other areas.

Speaking of Service Facs, an old school friend of mine, Mike, who I've known since Jr. High School has a beauty of a Service Fac. He must always be right and has an answer for everything. One time he and I were arguing and I found an area where he had misquoted something and I pointed it out and his entire argument fell flat on its face and I scored my point. You know what he said? It was the slickest Service Fac I've ever heard. As soon as I made my point and he realized that he had no acceptable reply to it he blurted out, "I suppose you've never been wrong!!" What a sweet service fac to make you right even if you lose a major debate point.

In our debate the other day, did you try out some pilot of your new tech on me? I was getting a little heated up and then I noticed how passionately you believed in your key points and I found something in what you said that I could agreed with and suddently, the debate was over. I still believed diifferently than you but my space was totally cleaned up on the area of the debate. Heidrun had mentioned to me that you were into Win / Win activities rather than putting someone down in a debate and I looked at how suddenly, I admired you for taking the stands you were taking and then I just blew all charge on the debate. In fact my whole space cleared up markedly and I had a big rise in tone level. If you worked some tech on me to produce these effects, they worked, so keep working on your tech and let us know what you are doing when you reach the point where revealing part of the data will not compromise your work.
Lakey

 

[Leon]

Roger,

i am writing this for more than just you. I would say things much differently on the phone.

I think that it is reasonable to say, that I am relatively "bulletproof" in terms of key ins, integrity breakability quotient, etc. I'm not easily intimidated.

As I see it, beginning with the word integrity, meaning wholeness, one needs to get beyond (read this as bigger) than self, as a first dynamic. One needs to know / experience self as all of the dynamics, especially the 8th. Being connected and responsible for the full breath and depth.

This would mean getting beyond the flip flop of positive and negative. Seeing oneself as bigger and more inclusive of both core poles to GPMs.

If the auditing line up took one to that point, then the PC completion would not be a candidate for waterboarding prisoners or running Ponzi schemes. Their inner core value ethics would not allow it.

If we are going to change the world, we need to have a tech and admin that isn't easily flipped as the culture of Scientology was.

I see this as a first benchmark.

Good one, Carmelo!

 

[Blue Spirit]

Aiming High

Roger,

i am writing this for more than just you. I would say things much differently on the phone.

I think that it is reasonable to say, that I am relatively "bulletproof" in terms of key ins, integrity breakability quotient, etc. I'm not easily intimidated.

As I see it, beginning with the word integrity, meaning wholeness, one needs to get beyond (read this as bigger) than self, as a first dynamic. One needs to know / experience self as all of the dynamics, especially the 8th. Being connected and responsible for the full breath and depth.

This would mean getting beyond the flip flop of positive and negative. Seeing oneself as bigger and more inclusive of both core poles to GPMs.

If the auditing line up took one to that point, then the PC completion would not be a candidate for waterboarding prisoners or running Ponzi schemes. Their inner core value ethics would not allow it.

If we are going to change the world, we need to have a tech and admin that isn't easily flipped as the culture of Scientology was.

I see this as a first benchmark.

I like your High Aiming.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

California Storm Slideshow on Yahoo

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Calif...r=/100122/ids_photos_india_wl/ra647925696.jpg

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Pretty wet here...

Aw, this one is my favorite:

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20100117/c...x=261&y=345&q=85&sig=gqYvivAfiRqQRxG7V_9yzA--

The little mule deer is finding something good to eat sprouting up with the winter rains after the fire...life goes on. We have mule deer in our local hills...

You know, that k-rail is good stuff, really works as a mudslide/water/debris barrier.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

stolen from the Sex in the SO etc thread

Lakey wrote:

She was a singing waitress at Sarno's Italian restaurant

***

Was that over by Barham off Ventura Blvd. near the Cahuenga Pass?

we used to go there. It was really fun. Is it still there?