The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[lkwdblds]

Hail Hail the Gang's All Here!

Sorry guys, I had wi-fi connectivity problems, which hopefully are corrected now. A quick catch up...

I wondered what happened to you. We need you for your official thread hostess abilities. The post was left unmanned, er uh unwomanned for too long.!

Anony Kat, welcome!

I already welcomed the Kat on my revivified Educational thread, typical of a Kat, Anony Kat followed me here, problably looking for bits of food.

Eeepie, I haven't seen you around lately and was beginning to worry that you had washed away in a winter storm...so nice to have you join us here!

I could not figure out who this was. Finally I got it, Mark "E." Baker. How are we supposed to figure out such a convoluted nickname, why not just call him Bakey like you usually do. You named me Lakey, after all, and it stuck.

I liked your poem, Heidrun!

Her poem seems to have struck a chord with quite a few of us!

Dear Dully, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. It's wonderful to have you with us here!

Yes, having one of the mainstays of ESMB posting here is an honor.

Purple Hazy darling, of course you are included! You and I can be the singing waitresses for Lakey to practice his flirting skills on...

That singing waitress, Joan, there are two listings for her, one in Woodland Hills where she has been listed for years and a new one out in Yucaipa. I called the new one and got an answering machine and it sort of sounded like Joan's voice but I was not sure. Any way, Purple Haze left a message for her which was not returned. Joan was a very close friend of Kathy Moore, the dancer, back at CCLA in he 70's and well into the 80's as well. Purple was also close with her and wanted to reconnect and I recommended she call Joan. This Kathy Moore is a different person from the person of the same name who is an executive at Orange County Org. Does anyone know the whereabouts of the ex Dancer, Kathy Moore? The Yucaipa number is free but for the Woodland Hills number, one has to register and pay a small fee to get the number. I wrote a snail mail to the address in Yucaipa which was not answered so the two Joan's must be different people even though their last name is rare, "Loosli". The Joan I knew would have definitely responded to my letter..

Mark, count me in for the Italian fest. Carmelo, you can cook for me, anytime! Sounds yummy, and healthy, too!

I'm sorry to hear Alan's celebration of Life will be private, but of course, it's logical that it would be. If nobody invites us, maybe there is some other way that we can commemorate his passing, and celebrate his contributions? :confused2: Let's get creative here.

Yes, those of us in the counties surrounding L.A., Orange County and Riverside County could meet up at the Riverside Mission and hold our own Ceremony to honor Alan. Sweetness, have your people call my people and Mark's People!

Roger, I really appreciate the fine work that went into your ebook. Learning how to learn is so very important. I will continue to read as I make time for it. Thanks for giving us first look!

Yes, amen to that!

Carmelo, I do have some ideas about your tricky situation...one is very simple. When you get the chance to spend some quality Grandparenting time alone with the kids in question, or each kid individually, better yet, read to them. Make a fun game out of it in some way. Find material that will intrigue and captivate their interest. Read some old letters or family history. Read some of your own writing and and ask them their opinions. Get them to read to you, from whatever works for them, from a cookbook, instruction manual, 'Zine, poetry, classic lit, vampire lit, science, pop music video or video game reviews, tabloid journalism, whatever tickles their fancy...take turns reading and being read to, and discuss what is covered. Make it fun. Don't harp on mistakes in grammar, slowness of reading, and just gently and matter of factly correct their pronunciation as mistakes occur.

Give them a sense of personal power and accomplishment with the practical fun and success with reading during shared quality time with you. Don't tie it to school work or grades or testing measurements or future success. Let it be real world stuff. If they are really into sports, then magazines or rule books or coaches/players biographies, etc.

Many a listless learner has been turned around by this method.

This may take YOU way beyond your comfort zone, but I'll bet it will help them to stay more open to learning, now and in the future. Don't let it be dull, whatever subjects or topics you cover. Making reading together a fun, special time with them, not work, NOT study...create some pleasure moments with them.

If all else fails, they will have some nice memories of fun times with you, rather than worry, stress, nagging, prompting, evaluating, etc.

I think they are of an age where they have to begin to desire competency and literacy for themselves. Mother's issues are her own, at this point, and will be more so, as time progresses.

A bypass of locating and providing the funding for professional tutoring services might be called for, also, if they really are several grades behind their peers. I would contact the school and see what the respective teacher's suggest, and what testing and professional evaluations have been done with them.

But then, I'm over-empowered, anyway!

Sweetness, now that you are back, I feel like breaking out some mugs of ale and singing the old drinking song from the 1920's, "Hail, hail the Gangs all here, what the heck do we care now that we're together."
Lakey

 

[Enthetan]

Lovely light hearted dialogue with Auntpat, Sweetness and Carmelo, I was glad to see that and keep it up if you lkfe. I heard something on broadcast radio today that was extrememly interesting and thought it worlth enough of note to post it here. Thomas Sowell, an African American scholar, economist and political analyst who has his editorial columns appear in many syndicated large newpapers was on the Dennis Prager radio talk show. Sowell (pronounced soul) has a new book out on intellectuals and on the radio he gave his definition for what an intellectual is.

I would have defined it as a person who is intelligent, and of high I.Q. who is well read and is up to date on politics and has a lot of opinions on various issues of the day and is more of a scholar as opposed to someone who makes a product. THIS DEFINITION IS TOTALLY WRONG!

Sowell has a beautiful definition, and I quote, "An intellectual is one whose products are ideas." Then comes the corollary, "The ideas which an intellectual comes up with are ideas which can not be proved (or disproved).
I believe there is some very sophisticated thinking behind this definition and corollary. The ramifications of this are many. An intellectual does not create any actual product other than ideas which are just speculation or represent a certain way of thinking or behaving out in the world. Our Universities are full of intellectuals to such a degree that if one does make an actual product, he is oftern looked down on as a simpleton or a Neanderthal. This topic, once grasped, gives one a new tool with which to view life; at least I find it so.
Lakey

I have a bunch of Sowell's books, and I think he's brilliant.

The latest one I've been reading is "A Conflict of Visions: Ideological Origins of Political Struggles", where he goes into how and why the Left and Right have a lot of trouble understanding each other's viewpoints.

 

[lkwdblds]

Prager's take on Left - Right differences.

I have a bunch of Sowell's books, and I think he's brilliant.

The latest one I've been reading is "A Conflict of Visions: Ideological Origins of Political Struggles", where he goes into how and why the Left and Right have a lot of trouble understanding each other's viewpoints.

Prager has a take on left - right differences which I agree with. First, he states that the Right feels the Left is wrong in their solutions and way of thinking but they respect most individuals of the Left and take their opinions seriously. The left do not just think the Right is wrong but think that they are EVIL. Therefore, rather than debating the Right, they tend to dismiss then with one word perjoratives.

Examples:
The Right no longer feels race based preferences should be awarded to minorities when Universities consider who is to be admitted. The Left dismisses this, calling the Right racists. Once the perjorative is applied, the need for any debating is made superflous. Racists are just evil - why debate.
If a prominent Black is on the Right, which happens occasionally such as with Ward Connely of California and he sponsors a ballot measure eliminating race based preferences, he is termed an "Uncle Tom". A black who hates his own people and wants to pretend he is white. Why debate him either.

Another example is that the Right wants to protect our borders. They want electrified fences, guards, etc. and if illegal crossings occur they want the people sent back. The left just dismisses this as Racist as well. The fact most Latinos who immigrated here legally do not approve of illegal immigration, even though they are of the same Race. is once agained dismissed by calling such people "turncoats" against their own Race.

One final example AND AN EXTREMELY HOT BUTTON IN TODAYS WORLD
is Gay Marriage. If you vote against it, you are immediately lumped into a category of being called a BIGOT AND A SEXIST. Never mind that you are strongly pro Gay Rights but just feel that the term marriage should be reserved for man- woman unions as it has for all of recorded history. Gays should have an equivalent ceremony according their Domestic Partnership full 100% equality of rights with a man- woman marriage. Probably over 1/3 of all gays don't support Gay Marriage, taking the altruistic view that society may be helped by maintaining the term marriage for Man-Woman Unions. They are shunned as turncoats by the Left.

Wrapping up Dennis Prager's views, he believes that the viewpoints of the Left stem from emotions and make people feel altruistic and make them feel good about themselves. The left feels they are more enlightened than other people and considers that they are the elite and have the responsibility to force through the issues where only they can see the truth. IF THEY CAN'T WIN AT THE BALLOT BOX, THEY WILL FORCE THEIR VIEWS ON THEIR COUNTRY THROUGH USING LEFT WING JUDGES. They believe people are too weak to do the right things at the local level and a big strong central government is the only means to get done the needed reforms which they espouse. The Right is more for less government, believes that central government is usually inefficient and is controlled by monied lobbyists, etc. and so neither side really duplicates the viewpoint of the other side.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Of course, in all of the above, there are exceptions to the rules, there are plenty of "progressives" on the left who take views of the Right seriously and are willing to debate them. Conversely, there are plenty of Rightists who consider Progressives anti American and lump them improperly in perjoratives. The examples stated above are just an overall picture or the macro view of what is going on.

Lakey

 

[RogerB]

Been there. The website looks very, very good, and the book is certainly interesting!

I would have to read it in order to know whether I agree or disagree with Carmelo. S/he/it might indeed have a point.

It could be that the book does more in the hands of a study coach than in the hands of people with learning trouble. While it probably says all they need to hear, I am not sure that they have the mental equipment to get it out of a book. It's the old problem - those who need it most are not up to taking it in!

I was instantly attracted by the table of contents. Then I read through it and thought "I know that - I know that - that I know too - and sure I know that -"

So, those who resonate with printed text in such a form, are probably already well read and have no study problems. But maybe teaching problems? To write it down is one (great) thing. How to get it where it is needed is another question, one that I cannot really answer...
.

Heidrun, Thanks for the well considered feed back.

We on this board are, of course, viewing it from quite a different perspective than the public it is intended for. We all have been through a version of "study tech" . . . and we consider we do not have a learning problem. One might say, in that context, we are the creme d' la creme.

But for parents and teachers who care about the children in their care, what they see are children having difficulty learning

That is why that word is in the title of the book. By test, it gets people's interest . . . you see, it is a subject, "How to Learn," that everyone has an omitted on. There's lots of stuff out there touting "Study Methods" . . . and too often folks have had difficulty with them . . . like the "positive thinking" doctrine, it's littered with failure.

The student is not the target audience, but the parent or teacher trying to educate and/or help the kids learn. The last thing these folks want is to be impeding the kids progress by violating any of the barriers to comprehension.

Parents are stuck with the disasters produced by the public educational system, and plead for an answer they can use to handle their kids and remedy the problem.

Virginia tutors with the not-for-profit outfit "Literacy Partners." They deal with adults who have realized they are too illiterate to make it in life and who have taken themselves back to the beginning of their schooling levels to get it. We know for sure this book is not for them . . . it is for the tutors though

It has been an interesting exercise seeing the difference in results with Virginia using the materials in the book compared to the plodding that often goes on with conventional tutors.

Rog

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Sounds good!

I have a bunch of Sowell's books, and I think he's brilliant.

The latest one I've been reading is "A Conflict of Visions: Ideological Origins of Political Struggles", where he goes into how and why the Left and Right have a lot of trouble understanding each other's viewpoints.

Oooh, I'd like to read that one!

 

[SweetnessandLight]

All is well here, but busy!

Thanks for the welcome back Lakey, the heavy rain was a wi-fi no no, but also had computer probs which a friend rectified by running some clean-up softwear.

Say, Eeepie is E.P.= Ethics Particle. I suppose it could be spelled Eee Pee too, but I like him too much to do so!

Poor Mark. The most I can call him is Markie Mark... which he probably HATES! :confused2:

Good idea for creating our own gathering in the Southland to honor and remember Alan. My people will comm with your people on this...anybody else got people who want to get on our lines?

 

[researcher]

How to Learn - How to Teach

I got the book 3 days ago .
Since I've been reading it I'm having a lot of insights .
Many concepts, very weel explained in the book, cab be used in the every day life .
How many times we think of being abosulutely right only because our ideas are based on preconceived Notions of what is correct or should be .
In the book there are many interesting exercises that can be used or thaught to other people .

In part 2 there are some interesting procedures that can be used at any time.
I PM Roger in order to have some clarification about hot to run "UNPLEASANT SENSATION HANDLING ".
Then I ran the Item DULLNESS.
During the session I got a lot of BDs, FNs insights and my mood raised immediately, and since then I've been feeling great HUGENESS.
I'm really impressed about the results that those simple procedures can produce .

A PUBLIC THANKS TO ROGER FOR HIS EXCELLENT BOOK.

Mario

Heidrun, Thanks for the well considered feed back.

We on this board are, of course, viewing it from quite a different perspective than the public it is intended for. We all have been through a version of "study tech" . . . and we consider we do not have a learning problem. One might say, in that context, we are the creme d' la creme.

But for parents and teachers who care about the children in their care, what they see are children having difficulty learning

That is why that word is in the title of the book. By test, it gets people's interest . . . you see, it is a subject, "How to Learn," that everyone has an omitted on. There's lots of stuff out there touting "Study Methods" . . . and too often folks have had difficulty with them . . . like the "positive thinking" doctrine, it's littered with failure.

The student is not the target audience, but the parent or teacher trying to educate and/or help the kids learn. The last thing these folks want is to be impeding the kids progress by violating any of the barriers to comprehension.

Parents are stuck with the disasters produced by the public educational system, and plead for an answer they can use to handle their kids and remedy the problem.

Virginia tutors with the not-for-profit outfit "Literacy Partners." They deal with adults who have realized they are too illiterate to make it in life and who have taken themselves back to the beginning of their schooling levels to get it. We know for sure this book is not for them . . . it is for the tutors though

It has been an interesting exercise seeing the difference in results with Virginia using the materials in the book compared to the plodding that often goes on with conventional tutors.

Rog

 

[researcher]

Many spelling mistakes, ...english is my second language ... I have to LEARN it better...lol

 

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Do not worry!

Many spelling mistakes, ...english is my second language ... I have to LEARN it better...lol

We can understand you just fine, researcher!

Just beware "STUDYING" English - because that is way too difficult!

Glad to have you with us!

EP

 

[RogerB]

Many spelling mistakes, ...english is my second language ... I have to LEARN it better...lol

Oh, that's what it was . . . I thought it might have been that you too have my hunt-and-peck and misdirected digit problem. I'm just a rotten typist. What can I say?

Anyhow, researcher . . . thanks for the heartfelt thanks . . . you are a quick learner! And I'm delighted to see my little missive has given you such benefit!

Rog

 

[purple haze]

dancing girls

Purple Hazy darling, of course you are included! You and I can be the singing waitresses for Lakey to practice his flirting skills on...
YAY! You sing and I'll dance. Sounds like lots of fun and I'm definitely up for that! Anyone else care to join us?

I'm sorry to hear Alan's celebration of Life will be private, but of course, it's logical that it would be. If nobody invites us, maybe there is some other way that we can commemorate his passing, and celebrate his contributions? :confused2: Let's get creative here. Count me in!


But then, I'm over-empowered, anyway!

Very happy you're back. More Girl Power!

 

[purple haze]

Purple Haze, have your people call my people then my people will call Mark's people, then Mark's people will call Carmelo's people and probably something can be arranged. I hope they play Streisand's song "People" over the speakers at the restaurant.
Lakey

You got it! But sorry Lakey. I've got way too much energy for a sit down restaurant... May need to party. I need Rolling Stones. Just spent 6 hours on Saturday visiting someone on the edge in the hospital in ICU and then sat with him 12 hours straight yesterday, to give his wife a break. It's heartwarming to see someone on the brink change their mind and make it back and then we physically moved to a regular hospital room with a view, which helped make it more real. I'm definitely ready to party and celebrate life! :dance2:Anyone join me? Purple Hazy here.

 

[lkwdblds]

Do your people know......

You got it! But sorry Lakey. I've got way too much energy for a sit down restaurant... May need to party. I need Rolling Stones. Just spent 6 hours on Saturday visiting someone on the edge in the hospital in ICU and then sat with him 12 hours straight yesterday, to give his wife a break. It's heartwarming to see someone on the brink change their mind and make it back and then we physically moved to a regular hospital room with a view, which helped make it more real. I'm definitely ready to party and celebrate life! :dance2:Anyone join me? Purple Hazy here.

Well done on your sitting with a sick person. Hospital's are not the most uptone places in the world! Nice going for the part you played in your friend's recovery.

No problem cranking up the energy level but do you and your people know there might be a logistics problem. Sweetness is halfway to Timbuktoo. She will need to use some of her frequent flier miles to get up to where you live. Seriously, she would have to drive at least 70 miles each way to make it to Hollywood and back. Mark is in Long Beach and I am Northern Orange County which are both reasonably close to Hollywood but poor Sweetness, she would have to fly from San Bernardino airport and rent a motel in Hollywood to make it work. I suggest meeting somewhere in the middle which just happens to be in my area. How about that! I am about 30 miles from Hollywood and 40 miles from Sweetness. Long Beach is another possibility. As far as who else would want to come, maybe Blue Spirit and his wife, I don't know about Carmelo, whether he would come or not. Probably anyone who we know personally, either from ESMB or elsewhere would be welcome. BTW, perhaps they could still play Steisand when the band is on break. Anyone up for a slow dance?
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Rog - I tried to anticipate and give you what you want

Heidrun, Thanks for the well considered feed back.

We on this board are, of course, viewing it from quite a different perspective than the public it is intended for. We all have been through a version of "study tech" . . . and we consider we do not have a learning problem. One might say, in that context, we are the creme d' la creme.

But for parents and teachers who care about the children in their care, what they see are children having difficulty learning

That is why that word is in the title of the book. By test, it gets people's interest . . . you see, it is a subject, "How to Learn," that everyone has an omitted on. There's lots of stuff out there touting "Study Methods" . . . and too often folks have had difficulty with them . . . like the "positive thinking" doctrine, it's littered with failure.


The student is not the target audience, but the parent or teacher trying to educate and/or help the kids learn. The last thing these folks want is to be impeding the kids progress by violating any of the barriers to comprehension.

Parents are stuck with the disasters produced by the public educational system, and plead for an answer they can use to handle their kids and remedy the problem.

Virginia tutors with the not-for-profit outfit "Literacy Partners." They deal with adults who have realized they are too illiterate to make it in life and who have taken themselves back to the beginning of their schooling levels to get it. We know for sure this book is not for them . . . it is for the tutors though

It has been an interesting exercise seeing the difference in results with Virginia using the materials in the book compared to the plodding that often goes on with conventional tutors.

Rog

Rog, in my very first post to you, I believe I foresaw what you were looking for. Having had a Son in High School from 1996 to 2000 and a daughter from 2000 to 2004, my wife and I were actively attending the PTA meetings and had coffee clatches with many of the parents. Oour neighborhood was a moderately upper middle class area in the foothills of Fullerton, CA. It is roughly equivalent to or slightly higher than the Palms, Mar Vista area in West L.A., perhaps as nice as the Beverlywood district in L.A.. The parents in our area knew that they did not know it all and were very eager to research out newer avenues of education for their children. The GATE and other student programs for both the bright students and those having problems were of great interest to nearly all of these parents.

One bit of partial misinformation that they shared with society at large is that the answers are available somewhere in the the society and if one searches things out and does their homework correctly, they will find the proper method to suit their child's best interests. There were good alternates available such as the Montesori Schools and many parents took advantage of them. The concept that society did not necessarily have all the answers and the data was not available in the University curriculum are not common, even at the level of parenting which was rampant in our neighborhood, a neighborhood of very concerned parents who really wanted, even demanded that their children excelled.

As I told you the first time I wrote, there is an avid market for the product which you are putting out. Many concerned parents will be interested to find out more about it. Only the rare, really adventurous minded parent will make the leap out of the University curriculum mindset. For themselves, they may do something adventurous and different (such as joining Scientology) but when it comes to their children, they feel they can't gamble with the children's future and must play things out with what are supposedly safe. sage, tried and tested methods, which in reality are often filled with false data and false concepts.

We sent both our kids to private school in Junior High and for our daughter, also high school. I have met the faculty at our children's schools and to me, the faculty of teachers at private schools, and also often at the public schools chose their teaching career not just to earn a salary but because they love children and love helping them. These teachers are not averse from learning new teaching technologies and trying new teaching methods. There is going to be some definite Service Facsimile type thinking which must be broken through, more so in public school teachers than in private school teachers but the necessity level of teachers is generally quite high in that they really love to see children learning and take part in the process and this high necessity level will often enable them to break through their service fac and try something new.

In my opinion, in my Lakester valence, I think you will be marketing your book into a market of parents, teachers and students who still want to succeed in life and feel that the key to their success is through learning and may I whisper it (studying properly). Huge amounts of money are spent in college type bookstores on the guides and methods to learn things, such as the Schaum's guides for various subjects. Those books with the yellow jackets, "Calculus for Idiots" and the like sell well and for what they are are done not too badly. IN THIS KEY AREA OF LIFE ON EARTH WHERE MANY PEOPLE ARE STILL STRIVING FOR EXCELLENCE, I DO NOT SEE WHY A BOOK WHICH ACTUALLY DELIVERS THE GOODS FAR BEYOND ITS COMPETITION'S ABILTIY TO DO SO, WILL NOT ELICIT VERY HIGH INTEREST AMONG ITS INTENDED AUDIENCES AND PUBLICS. For the sake of Society, I hope that I am right!!
Lakey

 

[SweetnessandLight]

I Spy!

Hummm, I seem to see a pattern of intention here...LOL!

Yes, unless Bent wants to lend us part of his building for a slumber party-sleep over, maybe it does make the most sense to chose a place in the middle for dinner, guess what Lakey?!? You get to be the boss of logistics for the dinner meet up, when we can make plans for a bigger gathering in March.

I need to develop an Anon pal with a plane!

Welcome researcher! Your english is fine...it's so nice you could join us here, and I'm glad you were having wins with Rog's book! Rog is a good guy, and we all love him!

Purple Hazy, I'm up for dancing, too...so Lakey, take note! Dinner, then music! Find us a place with good food and a theta environment...where we can play.

I just spent the day with a friend following surgery, just got her home from Medical Center intact and settled in. Good to redirect someone's attention (and intention!) to a pro-survival attitude. I'm so grateful to be feeling fine, myself! :happydance

Halfway to Timbucktoo is a very lovely place indeed, I'll have you know! Fruit trees and wildflowers are blooming! The hills are green, like Scotland!

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Prager has a take on left - right differences which I agree with. First, he states that the Right feels the Left is wrong in their solutions and way of thinking but they respect most individuals of the Left and take their opinions seriously. The left do not just think the Right is wrong but think that they are EVIL. Therefore, rather than debating the Right, they tend to dismiss then with one word perjoratives.

Examples:
The Right no longer feels race based preferences should be awarded to minorities when Universities consider who is to be admitted. The Left dismisses this, calling the Right racists. Once the perjorative is applied, the need for any debating is made superflous. Racists are just evil - why debate.
If a prominent Black is on the Right, which happens occasionally such as with Ward Connely of California and he sponsors a ballot measure eliminating race based preferences, he is termed an "Uncle Tom". A black who hates his own people and wants to pretend he is white. Why debate him either.

Another example is that the Right wants to protect our borders. They want electrified fences, guards, etc. and if illegal crossings occur they want the people sent back. The left just dismisses this as Racist as well. The fact most Latinos who immigrated here legally do not approve of illegal immigration, even though they are of the same Race. is once agained dismissed by calling such people "turncoats" against their own Race.

One final example AND AN EXTREMELY HOT BUTTON IN TODAYS WORLD
is Gay Marriage. If you vote against it, you are immediately lumped into a category of being called a BIGOT AND A SEXIST. Never mind that you are strongly pro Gay Rights but just feel that the term marriage should be reserved for man- woman unions as it has for all of recorded history. Gays should have an equivalent ceremony according their Domestic Partnership full 100% equality of rights with a man- woman marriage. Probably over 1/3 of all gays don't support Gay Marriage, taking the altruistic view that society may be helped by maintaining the term marriage for Man-Woman Unions. They are shunned as turncoats by the Left.

Wrapping up Dennis Prager's views, he believes that the viewpoints of the Left stem from emotions and make people feel altruistic and make them feel good about themselves. The left feels they are more enlightened than other people and considers that they are the elite and have the responsibility to force through the issues where only they can see the truth. IF THEY CAN'T WIN AT THE BALLOT BOX, THEY WILL FORCE THEIR VIEWS ON THEIR COUNTRY THROUGH USING LEFT WING JUDGES. They believe people are too weak to do the right things at the local level and a big strong central government is the only means to get done the needed reforms which they espouse. The Right is more for less government, believes that central government is usually inefficient and is controlled by monied lobbyists, etc. and so neither side really duplicates the viewpoint of the other side.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Of course, in all of the above, there are exceptions to the rules, there are plenty of "progressives" on the left who take views of the Right seriously and are willing to debate them. Conversely, there are plenty of Rightists who consider Progressives anti American and lump them improperly in perjoratives. The examples stated above are just an overall picture or the macro view of what is going on.

Lakey

That explains your choosing to live in OC.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Purple Hazy, I'm up for dancing, too...so Lakey, take note! Dinner, then music! Find us a place with good food and a theta environment...where we can play.

Oi Vey! Demands! Demands! Demands!

What was proposed was spaghetti. Now it's "dining & dancing with atmosphere". Sheesh. Women are trouble. Expensive trouble.


Mark A. Baker

 

[lkwdblds]

Do they make Kosher spaghetti

Oi Vey! Demands! Demands! Demands!

What was proposed was spaghetti. Now it's "dining & dancing with atmosphere". Sheesh. Women are trouble. Expensive trouble.


Mark A. Baker

I have a solution, find a place that serves Kosher spaghetti and instead of dancing to the Rolling Stones, we dance the Horah. By the way, the Rolling Stones are even in our age group and still going strong. Maybe the younger people will have to be carded to prove they are OVER 35 to get in to dance to the Stones.
Lakey

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Gruuuump!

Oooooh, cranky! Just 'cause I haven't given YOU a nickname yet...
I think you need to go dancing to feel better...

All right, a spaghetti dinner would be lovely, just with the companionship and conversation...I will probably spend more for gas than on the meal...:confused2:

Sigh...Purple Hazy and I will dance in the kitchen with the staff. If nobody loves us! D)

Lakey, I am hiding my progressive light under a bushel on this thread, for the sake of inter-poster harmony! But in real life, you can't scare me with talk of liberal judges! I lived through the 60's and 70's here!

 

[Enthetan]

Prager has a take on left - right differences which I agree with. First, he states that the Right feels the Left is wrong in their solutions and way of thinking but they respect most individuals of the Left and take their opinions seriously. The left do not just think the Right is wrong but think that they are EVIL. Therefore, rather than debating the Right, they tend to dismiss then with one word perjoratives.

Examples:
The Right no longer feels race based preferences should be awarded to minorities when Universities consider who is to be admitted. The Left dismisses this, calling the Right racists. Once the perjorative is applied, the need for any debating is made superflous. Racists are just evil - why debate.
If a prominent Black is on the Right, which happens occasionally such as with Ward Connely of California and he sponsors a ballot measure eliminating race based preferences, he is termed an "Uncle Tom". A black who hates his own people and wants to pretend he is white. Why debate him either.

Another example is that the Right wants to protect our borders. They want electrified fences, guards, etc. and if illegal crossings occur they want the people sent back. The left just dismisses this as Racist as well. The fact most Latinos who immigrated here legally do not approve of illegal immigration, even though they are of the same Race. is once agained dismissed by calling such people "turncoats" against their own Race.

One final example AND AN EXTREMELY HOT BUTTON IN TODAYS WORLD
is Gay Marriage. If you vote against it, you are immediately lumped into a category of being called a BIGOT AND A SEXIST. Never mind that you are strongly pro Gay Rights but just feel that the term marriage should be reserved for man- woman unions as it has for all of recorded history. Gays should have an equivalent ceremony according their Domestic Partnership full 100% equality of rights with a man- woman marriage. Probably over 1/3 of all gays don't support Gay Marriage, taking the altruistic view that society may be helped by maintaining the term marriage for Man-Woman Unions. They are shunned as turncoats by the Left.

Wrapping up Dennis Prager's views, he believes that the viewpoints of the Left stem from emotions and make people feel altruistic and make them feel good about themselves. The left feels they are more enlightened than other people and considers that they are the elite and have the responsibility to force through the issues where only they can see the truth. IF THEY CAN'T WIN AT THE BALLOT BOX, THEY WILL FORCE THEIR VIEWS ON THEIR COUNTRY THROUGH USING LEFT WING JUDGES. They believe people are too weak to do the right things at the local level and a big strong central government is the only means to get done the needed reforms which they espouse. The Right is more for less government, believes that central government is usually inefficient and is controlled by monied lobbyists, etc. and so neither side really duplicates the viewpoint of the other side.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Of course, in all of the above, there are exceptions to the rules, there are plenty of "progressives" on the left who take views of the Right seriously and are willing to debate them. Conversely, there are plenty of Rightists who consider Progressives anti American and lump them improperly in perjoratives. The examples stated above are just an overall picture or the macro view of what is going on.

Lakey

Sowell's take on the issue is that there are two competing "visions". The "constrained" vision (dominant on the right) looks at the world as involving trade-offs, where pleasing A will make B unhappy. The "unconstrained" vision (dominant on the left) looks at the world as having "problems" which have "solutions", a solution being defined as a course of action which will make everybody (or at least most people) happy.

The constrained vision also holds that it is impossiible for "societal planners" to have enough information or enough wisdom to actually plan a society, and that things work better when there are definite, predictable rules to delimit the areas of discretion of individuals, and for individuals to make their own decisions on their goals and how to get there. Meanwhile, the unconstrained vision holds that there exist people wise enough and ethical enough to be trusted with the power to plan the lives of the masses.

Looking at this, I come to the conclusion that LRH was firmly of the latter viewpoint. However much LRH railed against "communists", his only real objection to them was that HE was not in charge. In his own domain, he set up a communist dictatorship as rigid, as top-down, and as dysfunctional as any of them. He had his own gulag system, and I think the only thing that prevented a "Killing Fields" scenario was that he never succeeded in taking over his own sovereign country.