The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[lkwdblds]

Many thanks to you as well!

Great news, Lakey! I kept my fingers crossed too!



.

Thanks for your kind wishes as well. Also, thanks to Enthetan for the kind words. The angiogram seems to be a low risk operation. The Doctor was required by law to tell me that there is a 1/300 chance of having to switch from doing a stent into doing a bypass operation instead. Then there is also a 1/300 chance of death occuring. I pointed these odds out to my nurse and she thought that they applied to someone who was very feeble. To a robust person, such as myself, the nurse said she never knew or heard of any angiogram patient dying.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Thanks for your advice! Also, your politics.

AAARRRGGGHHH Lakey, Just harden the f- up and you'll be fine. I had a mini stroke in december and was back at work two days later. If you listen to those doctor people too much you'll be sicker than you ever thought possible.

As regards the Liberal-Conservative debate - my take on the liberals is mainly one of according to them it seems no one is ever responsible for anything. If the guy is a crook then it is because of his poor upbringing, if he is dumb and stupid then it's because the educational system failed him, if he is drunk and disorderly then he needs counselling to help him. Socialist governments throughout the world - esp here in new Zealand - specialise in this sort of bollocks. You cannot fire someone because he's lazy or wrecks company equipment, you cannot kick him out of a rental property if he fails to pay the rent - the list just goes on and on.

Your support for the US and its founding principles is well understood and, I think, well supported by most people including me. However, those are all historical reasons that you give for your suport. One needs to look at the USA in present time. I'm no great supporter of conspiracy theories but it sure seems to me that politicians all over the place are intent on making people more dumb, more compliant, less responsible, more depemdant on the state, etc etc than they ever were in the past. Something is grievously wrong somewhere.

Thanks so much Leon, it is so thoughtful to support an acquaintance or friend undergoing a medical procedure. I really appreciate it big time! My entire problem started with high blood pressure and natural methods and auditing assists did not bring it down. High blood pressure is a silent killer because there is no pain or sensation but one's heart and blood vessels are overworked and take a pounding. After a while, other organs are affected and various things start failing. In 1999 I began taking the medications to bring down the blood pressure. The Cardio guy I have now is a fine man. He could have easily taken another 20 minutes in the operating room today and put in two stents and probably he would have earned another $10K or $15K but he did not do it because it was not needed. He tells me that if I lost a lot of weight, at least 40 lbs., I might be able to get off of all medications but I haven't had the will power to do it.

Leon, are you 100% normal after your mini stroke or is your speech a little slurred or your eyelid droping or anything such as that?

On the politicis and liberal politicians, I agree with you totally. I think they have trouble confronting unpleasanties or outright evil and substitue in a wrong why. The latest nonsense is to not score various ball games and have a winner and a loser because the losers have to experience loss of self esteem. Just think of what the world will be like in 50 years or so with laws of that nature in effect. Many liberals think they can legislate pain, losses and loss of self esteem out of existence.

It seems as if the current movement to liberalize all institutions took root near the end of World War I. The story is that soldiers on both sides of the battlefield, Axis and Allied, both wore tags saying that "God is with us." This inconsistency seemed to kick in the movement to kick the diety out of societies and head more towards the communistic and socialisic models of government.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Its nice that everyone is so easy going!

I'm happy to drive down to OC, if that helps. I got the dancing out of my system dancing up a storm, so no problem meeting for lunch and conversation. purple

Its nice that you and Sweetness are so nice and easy going. Yes, if we in greater L.A. could have a once a monthly meeting that would be awesome. We could do a little printed Newsletter after each meeting and if the attendance grew a little, maybe we could schedule a speaker such as Roger or Diana Class 8 or someone like that.

We should set a meeting for February. Katella Bakery would be an awesome place to go and its easy to get to. 605 Freeway south to Katella Blvd., get off the Freeway going East 2 miles on Katella Blvd. and your are there, on the right. It is a very large deli restaurant and bakery. We should firm this event up over the next couple of days.
Lakey

 

[Blue Spirit]

Damn Good Advice

AAARRRGGGHHH Lakey, Just harden the f- up and you'll be fine. I had a mini stroke in december and was back at work two days later. If you listen to those doctor people too much you'll be sicker than you ever thought possible.

That is damn good advice Lakey; see my PM.

 

[Blue Spirit]

Ironic

I'm sadly amused that the types of food mentioned in recent postings such as
Deli, Pasta, Bakery are exactly the foods that cause heart disease in the
first place.

How about a new adventure for all of a Raw Restaurant ?

Carmelo might decide to take a Southwest flight landing at the closest
airport for the decided area.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

I'm sadly amused that the types of food mentioned in recent postings such as
Deli, Pasta, Bakery are exactly the foods that cause heart disease in the
first place.

Some of us actually enjoy carbs. You want to carry a meat body forever? Think of it as R2-Pasta Fiesole.

How about a new adventure for all of a Raw Restaurant ?

Carmelo might decide to take a Southwest flight landing at the closest
airport for the decided area.

I do know an excellent Chinese/Vietnamese vegetarian & raw food restaurant in the G.G./Fountain Valley area near Little Saigon & just a bit off the 405 Fwy. Excellent food, but not exactly what most americans have learned to expect.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Katella Bakery would be an awesome place to go and its easy to get to.

I'm okay with KB, it doesn't have to be italian. Truth is when it comes to italian I'm a bit spoiled. I prefer to hit Angelo & Vinci's there in Fullerton. Their garlic breads are wonderful.

I've eaten at KB before despite being vegetarian. Although I do balk at calling it awesome. It's fine but LA & the Valley have several much much better jewish delis. Even OC has a Jerry's down by SoCoast Plaza.

So don't go building up Purp's or SandL's hopes falsely.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Leon]

I'm fine. The stroke was a small one - I woke up one Sunday morning and my left arm wouldn't work properly. It was just weak and a bit floppy - couldn't understand why. Wife and I chatted about it but never thought much. Then I went to make the coffee and found I couldn't lift a cup with my left hand. Strange. An hour or so later I went to the supermarket to get some stuff and noticed that my left foot was hitting the ground when I walked, and then I began to feel I was in two halves. Decidedly odd. So when I got home we phoned a doctor friend and he said to get over to the hospital NOW!

And then things just started getting better bit by bit. I was in overnight, have had tests done and basically all is fine. The only residual is a tiny bit of no co-ordination if, for example, I lift a forkful of food to my mouth with my left hand - then I feel the arm is not as facile as it should be. But other than that I'm 100 percent.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Eight Miles High

1) Why don't you meet at Max and Erma's in the German Village section of Columbus, OH or perhaps Cheeseburgers in Paradise across from Waikiki Beach?

2) PS:

glad you had an easy time of it Lakey!

3) It is raining cats and dogs here

4) I just finished some brussels sprouts and spinach lasagna

5) now for some Constant Comment with honey from one of our bee hives

7) what I actually came to write about:

Back in my younger days (ages 14 -17), when I was doing dope (grass, hash, and acid), there were times when I felt pretty good. I understood truth(s), got into action on things that I normally couldn't face ie., schoolwork. Did my first rollercoaster.

felt quite huge

all of this was not unlike the EP of Scientology auditing.

sex, dope, rock and roll, and auditing can get you places normal middle America doesn't visit.

The problems arise when you come back down.

If you have by passed the handling of a lot of life issues and just gotten to the blow out, thee are so many freight trains headed your way, that it isn't too long before one hits you.

When someone like BB King practices playing guitar and singing the blues all his life, and one day , tuns around, and is famous - he has a foundation and a grounding.

When someone gets a session or smokes some weed, and loses all his / her stops, thee is no grounding or foundation. The stuff between ultimate clarity and sanity and where you were two hours ago doesn't go away. It comes back in - BEEFED UP.

as an auditor ( I generally audit an average of a PC a day), I am so much happier to have marginal gains - a little here, a little there, than to have a big blow out. Because the big blow out usually doesn't last, but incremental gains do.

like everything, there are exceptions, but it is generally true.

 

[RogerB]

Hi Roger

At pag. 72 of your book you wrote about Presence Process and how it works succesfully on athletes.
I had an insight , I mean I realized that it can be used to destroy " THE MYTH OF THE CHAMPION" .
I consider " The Myth of the Champion" as one of the biggest barrier that limits the athlete with good potential to be a champion .
Each athlete , when they start their career , they have a reference such as Mike Tyson or Cassius Clay therefore they start to imitate them , their training their stiles and so on .
By doing so the athlete is not himself/herself and does not know and LIMIT him/ her true potential.

Each champion, is unique , has its own style and what is considered to be a flaw in the "standard " practise often becomes the winning weapon of the champion.
I have seen many athletes ,an even myself in the past , ( I was a fighter and trained other athletes ) feel a DOT and see the champion HUGE .
Probably because you know that you will never be like them , and that is true as everyone is different .

So I think that Presence Process 3 and 4 can discreate this barrier ( the myth of champion) that limits many athletes in several disciplines.
When an athlete thinks, " I'll never be like that champion" they limit themselves, as they feel a dot and see the champion enormus and powerful.

The same often happens when an athlete or team have to play a match against a great team , for instance an european basketball team agains an american team . The european team feels a dot and they see americans HUGE and although they could win the loss the game .

So I think that Processes 3 and 4 run succesfully can remove this barrier .

Roger , let me know what you think about my considerations .

Researcher

Researcher, you are quite correct! A brilliant observation.

But where did you get hold of Presence Processes 3 and 4? They are not in the book . . . You been cheating on me?

For folks who are not familiar with the processes, an explanation.

There are four Presence Processes and, while they are each stand alone processes, they can and do lead one to the other and interrelate in application.

Presence 1 it a drill, exercise or process that raises a Being’s ability to be more wholly, knowingly present with their awareness directed under their full knowing control and volition on what or where they determine.

In essence, there are two parts to it. Part one is simply knowingly being present, here, now with your attention (directed or controlled awareness) exactly as and where you want it to be. Part two is where you begin to address and remove those “things” or issues that tend to detract from, interfere with or knock you out of being fully present.

Lots of things can knock you out of being fully present. There are external things, of course, but there are also internal things personal to you.

This part 2 was totally missed in the CofS.

Example: when sitting quietly, being present for an extended period, say 20 minutes or more, one can find various unwanted conditions manifesting (turning on). These are typically accompanied by unpleasant, uncomfortable or unwanted moods, sensations or feelings. In this part of the Presence Process, these unwanted scenarios are picked up and typically handled with “the Unpleasant Sensation Handling.” And thus, that which had been interfering with your ability to be present is removed! A smart idea, yes?

Then one can continue the process of exercising one’s ability to be knowingly fully present to a higher level of attainment.

Sometimes, with an educated client, one who has done some processor training and who can recognize what is there that he/she can benefit from handling, they will tell you they have a “mass” turned on instead of simply a “feeling.” Great, do the Mass Handling R/D.

So, Researcher, on the point you make regarding athletic performance and “presence,” I would add this.

There are two aspects to it. There is the “comparative presence” aspect of it that you mention; this being the situation wherein you feel or perceive yourself to be less or more present than, or smaller or bigger or less or more able than the other guy. An example of this is fans of movie stars and of champion athletes: the fan feels less than and smaller than the “star.”

The other aspect of it is the one I refer to in my book. Here we are talking about you being present in the moment with all your awareness and attention under your control and where and on what you want it on. This is a wonderfully huge state of being and feeling of “being present” . . . . . the interesting thing is that you’ll hear athletes unwittingly referring to the loss or regaining of this factor when they often express “why they lost or won the match.” They express it in terms of: “I lost my concentration.” Or, conversely, “I got my concentration back.”

An example from my own competitive athletic days is that as a swimmer in distance races, if I was wholly present in the now with all my presence and awareness directed precisely on what I wanted, I never got tired or felt exhausted. I maintained phenomenal ability to perform! But, if instead I allowed my awareness to be hung up in what I’d already done, and on the fact that I’d been at this a while now or on anything untoward (such as being hit by a wave or a flubbed turn in the pool) then the “tiredness” would build up, and then, more and more it would accumulate and interfere with my performance.

Nothing quite as uncomfortable as being hung up in the past! It certainly robs you of the present.

Presence 2 uses the command: “Use me (the coach) to be present.” Presence 1 uses the simple command, “Be here.” Or, “Be present.”

More tomorrow, or maybe later.


Rog

 

[RogerB]

The Angiogram

Lakey,

Couple of things on this . . . may it go well and easily for you (and I know it will)

The other thing is find out from the docs WTF they are using as the dye. It is likely they might be using a radioactive isotope of thallium, that is often the case. Otherwise they might be using and iodine-iodide compound. These things are used as contrasting agents or tracer agents to they can read the flow of blood in the heart vessels.

If it is the iodine compound they will give you advice on ridding the body system of it . . . and it is wise to get rid of it as the compound used can interfere with kidney function to the point of impairment. (27% incidence)

If thallium is used . . . . the first thing to do is get some almonds (bitter if you can take them) or apricot kernels or anything else that is high in pangammic acids (vitB19 stuff) (millet is good) to begin to undo the effects of the radiation in the system . . . and there is merit in finding a doctor who understands the issue of heavy metal toxicity. Thallium is a bitch. The amount given in these procedures is not high enough to be toxic but, added to the load the system might already be carrying (it was used as an anti-knock agent in gasoline as lead was), you would be wise to be checked out. I did, and thallium presence explained all the weird symptoms I had, and chelation IV therapy got it out for me.

As data, my cardiologist spotted my skin "rash" thing when he was examining me, and questioned me on it. I told him I was undergoing chelation therapy to get rid of thallium and that this skin thing came up as the toxins were being released.

"Ahhhh," he said, "That's what that is. I see that in my patients when we use radioactive thallium as a tracer in some of our procedures! I often wondered why that happened."

I referred him to the literature on thallium toxicity side effects. He and I became fast and firm friends.

Rog

 

[lkwdblds]

Roger - Thanks for the tip!!

Lakey,

Couple of things on this . . . may it go well and easily for you (and I know it will)

The other thing is find out from the docs WTF they are using as the dye. It is likely they might be using a radioactive isotope of thallium, that is often the case. Otherwise they might be using and iodine-iodide compound. These things are used as contrasting agents or tracer agents to they can read the flow of blood in the heart vessels.

If it is the iodine compound they will give you advice on ridding the body system of it . . . and it is wise to get rid of it as the compound used can interfere with kidney function to the point of impairment. (27% incidence)

If thallium is used . . . . the first thing to do is get some almonds (bitter if you can take them) or apricot kernels or anything else that is high in pangammic acids (vitB19 stuff) (millet is good) to begin to undo the effects of the radiation in the system . . . and there is merit in finding a doctor who understands the issue of heavy metal toxicity. Thallium is a bitch. The amount given in these procedures is not high enough to be toxic but, added to the load the system might already be carrying (it was used as an anti-knock agent in gasoline as lead was), you would be wise to be checked out. I did, and thallium presence explained all the weird symptoms I had, and chelation IV therapy got it out for me.

As data, my cardiologist spotted my skin "rash" thing when he was examining me, and questioned me on it. I told him I was undergoing chelation therapy to get rid of thallium and that this skin thing came up as the toxins were being released.

"Ahhhh," he said, "That's what that is. I see that in my patients when we use radioactive thallium as a tracer in some of our procedures! I often wondered why that happened."

I referred him to the literature on thallium toxicity side effects. He and I became fast and firm friends.

Rog

Rog - They use thallium in the dye. I had a blood test panel before doing the surgery and there was already a small kidney function which was slightly low. By the way, that was only non optimum item on my entire blood test. As a result of the kidney function being a little low, they had me take 3 teaspoons full of a liquid called Mucomyst for three days before the surgery or they would not take me in. After the surgery, they kept me hooked up to an IV right up until the time I left the building. I asked what the IV was for and the nurse said it was something to help flush the dye out of my kidneys. They also had me drinking lots of water and fruit juice after the surgery saying that was important to help flush the dye out of the kidneys. Thanks for the hatting on the radioactiveness of the thalium, I was not at all aware of that fact. Well, no stents were required to be put in. I had two stents put in in 2003 and 1 in 2005 and they were all holding fine after 5 and 7 years respectively which was a real good indicator. Usually stents do not last that long. The guy was already set up inside my arteries and could have slipped in another stent or two in 10 minutes or so and made himself $10, 000 or $15,000 extra and he chose not to do it which to me showed he is not just in it for the money but is trying to apply his tech only as much as is needed.

As I mentioned before, I had 30 chelation treatments done in late 2002 and early 2003 but while I was still on chelation, I did terrible on a treadmill test and was ordered to get an angiogram then. That angiogram revealed one major heart artery, the LDL, was 99% closed and another was 90%. The doctor told my family that I probably would have died in a week or two when the 99% artery would have totally closed off. Ever since then, I have put myself in this doctor's hands and I seem to be getting stronger and improving through this type of treatment. My chelation doctor disagreed that I would have died when the big LDL artery was totally closed off. He thinks I would have had a heart attack or a stroke but still would have survived. He is the one who sent me to see the cardiologist. I had first seen that same cardiologist in 1999 when I was a mere pup, only 59 years old, and he gave me my first angiogram that year and I passed without needing any stents. I dropped out of touch with him until my chelation doctor insisted that I call him back in 2003 because I had a terrible treadmill test. The stats are that my coronary arteries were closing up the early 2000's and forming blockages and since 2005, this blockage process has been stopped by the treatment I am doing so I can't make a radical shift away from a successful program.

I know improving my diet would only help me and all doctors agree that a weight loss would help immensely but I don't seem to have the discipline to really lose the weight.
Thanks again for the tips.
Lakey

 

[Mark A. Baker]

If thallium is used . . . . the first thing to do is get some almonds (bitter if you can take them) or apricot kernels or anything else that is high in pangammic acids (vitB19 stuff) (millet is good) to begin to undo the effects of the radiation in the system . . . and there is merit in finding a doctor who understands the issue of heavy metal toxicity. Thallium is a bitch.

This is likely good advice, Roger's comments generally are. He is certainly correct about heavy metal poisoning and the effects of radioactive isotopes.

However be cautious with the particular food items he mentions, also. You really don't want to "over do" them. Consult a knowledgeable specialist on precise doses for yourself. These items are natural sources of cyanide and should only be used with that kept in mind.


Mark A. Baker

 

[hbeer]

Rog - They use thallium in the dye. I had a blood test panel before doing the surgery and there was already a small kidney function which was slightly low. By the way, that was only non optimum item on my entire blood test. As a result of the kidney function being a little low, they had me take 3 teaspoons full of a liquid called Mucomyst for three days before the surgery or they would not take me in. After the surgery, they kept me hooked up to an IV right up until the time I left the building. I asked what the IV was for and the nurse said it was something to help flush the dye out of my kidneys. They also had me drinking lots of water and fruit juice after the surgery saying that was important to help flush the dye out of the kidneys. Thanks for the hatting on the radioactiveness of the thalium, I was not at all aware of that fact. Well, no stents were required to be put in. I had two stents put in in 2003 and 1 in 2005 and they were all holding fine after 5 and 7 years respectively which was a real good indicator. Usually stents do not last that long. The guy was already set up inside my arteries and could have slipped in another stent or two in 10 minutes or so and made himself $10, 000 or $15,000 extra and he chose not to do it which to me showed he is not just in it for the money but is trying to apply his tech only as much as is needed.

As I mentioned before, I had 30 chelation treatments done in late 2002 and early 2003 but while I was still on chelation, I did terrible on a treadmill test and was ordered to get an angiogram then. That angiogram revealed one major heart artery, the LDL, was 99% closed and another was 90%. The doctor told my family that I probably would have died in a week or two when the 99% artery would have totally closed off. Ever since then, I have put myself in this doctor's hands and I seem to be getting stronger and improving through this type of treatment. My chelation doctor disagreed that I would have died when the big LDL artery was totally closed off. He thinks I would have had a heart attack or a stroke but still would have survived. He is the one who sent me to see the cardiologist. I had first seen that same cardiologist in 1999 when I was a mere pup, only 59 years old, and he gave me my first angiogram that year and I passed without needing any stents. I dropped out of touch with him until my chelation doctor insisted that I call him back in 2003 because I had a terrible treadmill test. The stats are that my coronary arteries were closing up the early 2000's and forming blockages and since 2005, this blockage process has been stopped by the treatment I am doing so I can't make a radical shift away from a successful program.

I know improving my diet would only help me and all doctors agree that a weight loss would help immensely but I don't seem to have the discipline to really lose the weight.
Thanks again for the tips.
Lakey

Congratulations on the successfult test, Lakey - just what's that with your discipline? Think of all the ladies who really want you to be physically fit!



BTW if you diet the right way, you are never hungry. I have worked it all out - lost 33 pounds since I moved into this house - just slowly enough that the skin can keep up shrinking.



.

 

[lkwdblds]

Okay - give me the write up of the diet.

Congratulations on the successfult test, Lakey - just what's that with your discipline? Think of all the ladies who really want you to be physically fit!



BTW if you diet the right way, you are never hungry. I have worked it all out - lost 33 pounds since I moved into this house - just slowly enough that the skin can keep up shrinking.



.

Okay, please send the diet e-mail, either post it here if it has general benefit or PM it if it fits just me. Thanks in advance!
Lakey

 

[researcher]

Researcher, you are quite correct! A brilliant observation.

But where did you get hold of Presence Processes 3 and 4? They are not in the book . . . You been cheating on me?

For folks who are not familiar with the processes, an explanation.

There are four Presence Processes and, while they are each stand alone processes, they can and do lead one to the other and interrelate in application.

Presence 1 it a drill, exercise or process that raises a Being’s ability to be more wholly, knowingly present with their awareness directed under their full knowing control and volition on what or where they determine.

In essence, there are two parts to it. Part one is simply knowingly being present, here, now with your attention (directed or controlled awareness) exactly as and where you want it to be. Part two is where you begin to address and remove those “things” or issues that tend to detract from, interfere with or knock you out of being fully present.

Lots of things can knock you out of being fully present. There are external things, of course, but there are also internal things personal to you.

This part 2 was totally missed in the CofS.

Example: when sitting quietly, being present for an extended period, say 20 minutes or more, one can find various unwanted conditions manifesting (turning on). These are typically accompanied by unpleasant, uncomfortable or unwanted moods, sensations or feelings. In this part of the Presence Process, these unwanted scenarios are picked up and typically handled with “the Unpleasant Sensation Handling.” And thus, that which had been interfering with your ability to be present is removed! A smart idea, yes?

Then one can continue the process of exercising one’s ability to be knowingly fully present to a higher level of attainment.

Sometimes, with an educated client, one who has done some processor training and who can recognize what is there that he/she can benefit from handling, they will tell you they have a “mass” turned on instead of simply a “feeling.” Great, do the Mass Handling R/D.

So, Researcher, on the point you make regarding athletic performance and “presence,” I would add this.

There are two aspects to it. There is the “comparative presence” aspect of it that you mention; this being the situation wherein you feel or perceive yourself to be less or more present than, or smaller or bigger or less or more able than the other guy. An example of this is fans of movie stars and of champion athletes: the fan feels less than and smaller than the “star.”

The other aspect of it is the one I refer to in my book. Here we are talking about you being present in the moment with all your awareness and attention under your control and where and on what you want it on. This is a wonderfully huge state of being and feeling of “being present” . . . . . the interesting thing is that you’ll hear athletes unwittingly referring to the loss or regaining of this factor when they often express “why they lost or won the match.” They express it in terms of: “I lost my concentration.” Or, conversely, “I got my concentration back.”

An example from my own competitive athletic days is that as a swimmer in distance races, if I was wholly present in the now with all my presence and awareness directed precisely on what I wanted, I never got tired or felt exhausted. I maintained phenomenal ability to perform! But, if instead I allowed my awareness to be hung up in what I’d already done, and on the fact that I’d been at this a while now or on anything untoward (such as being hit by a wave or a flubbed turn in the pool) then the “tiredness” would build up, and then, more and more it would accumulate and interfere with my performance.

Nothing quite as uncomfortable as being hung up in the past! It certainly robs you of the present.

Presence 2 uses the command: “Use me (the coach) to be present.” Presence 1 uses the simple command, “Be here.” Or, “Be present.”

More tomorrow, or maybe later.


Rog

Excellent explanation Roger !!!!!
Yes Presences Processes are not in your book , I found them on Knowledgism website and on another website.

I'm looking forward to reading your next Tomorrow post about those processes.

Researcher

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Lunch Bunch rides again!

Being present is the best present of all! Be Here Now! A fantastic spiritual practice that I learned from Baba Ram Dass when I was like 12 or 13 maybe... still works, in or out of an auditing session!
Thanks Roger and Mark for your good comments.

Leon, if only it were that easy...but I agree that medicine does not hold all the answers every time, and that being tough is a great survival skill, one I am gaining in as the experience of years accumulates. It's very good advice you have given us all!

O.K. I see a plan coming together here...so I am making an executive decision based on the consensus of the group...KB bakery to start with, then we will tackle Italian or Markee's healthy Aisian food next time, o.k.? I am o.k. with raw food, just no eels tartar please! Mark knows I was vegetarian for six years, and am now an omnivore.

We are looking at a Saturday lunch meeting to start with, just to give us travel time and time to yak it up a lot. After I call Lakey to confirm date and time, pms with specifics will start arriving. I think you should feel free to bring a like-minded friend or companion (Blue Spirit, I want to see your lovely wife again!) with the understanding that we want to co-create a theta group gathering that will be enjoyed by all. Squirrels and SP's of all varietal forms are welcome...

Lakey, you are doing so well with everything, I am really proud of you! Keep up the good work!

As far as our ethnic food preferences go, I saw the biggest Jewish Mother in my life last night (who also happens to be Italian...) and my first response was a craving for carbs! There are times we all need comfort food!

We're gonna have fun together, guys!

 

[hbeer]

Diet Info (Not Only For Lakey)

Okay, please send the diet e-mail, either post it here if it has general benefit or PM it if it fits just me. Thanks in advance!
Lakey

OK, here you go!

You say "discipline" and somehow I assume you mean "hungry" - right?

It's getting hungry that keeps us from eating right.

My simple and naive conclusion is therefore that in order to lose weight, we have to avoid getting hungry. Dieting specialists actually advise overweight people to NEVER GO HUNGRY.

Not eating does not help weight loss as it leads to binge eating, and even if a heroic person can avoid binge eating, the body switches to a slower metabolism when it "smells starvation" (because no food goes into the belly), so the weight loss stops and the whole system suffers from low energy, as the body tries to save as much energy as possible.



THREE REASONS TO GET HUNGRY

There are three reasons to get hungry (beside having nothing to eat - a weight loss method that the Nazis perfected in their camps, but had serious side effects...)

- low blood sugar - caused either by lack of food or food stuffs that trigger insulin spikes

- stomach getting empty - caused either by lack of food or by a stomach that has been extended by very large meals

- calorie intake below 2200 per day


CALORIE INTAKE BELOW 2200 PER DAY

This is a funny thing and very little known. Our body has hormonal balancing system that will tell it when it has eaten enough, but it works only above a calorie intake of 2200 calories.

So, if you don't burn 2200 calories a day (because of a very sedentary lifestyle), you will gain weight if you always eat when hungry, whether you eat good food or not. Body motion must be up to 2200 calories or more per day for this regulation system to work. "Listen to your body" is generally a very wise idea, but not if you burn less than 2200 calories a day (and not if the body is addicted to something harmful - see "insulin spikes" below).


EMPTY STOMACH

A good rule of thumb for people who wanted to lose weight used to be "eat only half of everything". Even though this is not the ideal approach, it can work in many cases, because it makes the portions smaller, and if all portions always are small, the stomach shrinks, can take in less food, and there are less calories to burn. (There is an operation to make the stomach smaller, which works very well in helping people to get their weight down. Unfortunately it is not without risk - so I decided to skip it.)

Beside the two other factors that make us hungry, it is the "filled" signal coming from the stomach that tells the body to stop eating. I have tried this out and it really works.

I used to eat a big bowl of veggies for breakfast and thought that nothing could be wrong with that, but there was something wrong: the portion was too big and it extended my stomach, so that I would be hungry all day. I tried to handle that by eating huge amounts of salad to still the hunger feeling, but that didn't handle it at all - it extended the stomach further.

What did handle the problem was to make the servings smaller. For several years now, I prepare the same size breakfast, but eat it in three portions, separated by about 1 1/2 hours. Once I tried to eat a breakfast of the original size, but couldn't get it down anymore. Hooray!!!


INSULIN SPIKES

Now here we come to the one big point where changes have to be made to the average western diet.

The biggest culprit in our weight gain is the insulin spike - not too much fat!! All foods that contain what the nutritionists call "fast carbs" or, fully spelled out, "fast carbohydrates", will do the following:

1. raise blood sugar very quickly

2. cause the pancreas to shoot up insulin levels in order to remove the excess blood sugar from the blood (and where does it go: to the fat cells)

3. now the excess insulin causes a blood sugar crash - it goes down below a viable level, and

4. there is a terrible feeling of hunger only an hour after a meal, because of this blood sugar crash; we are craving sweets, and the whole cycle starts all over again at 1. with a sweet meal that raises blood sugar again very quickly, etc. etc. etc., in a vicious circle (we computer programmers call it an "endless loop").

Food stuffs that cause these insulin spikes are, unfortunately, what we consider "staple food": everything sweet (if made with normal table sugar); everything made from white flour (bread, pastry, noodles, pasta, cookies, dumplings...), potatoes, white rice and everything made from it; also pizza and everything else that is made from white flour rather than full grain flour. Also sweet fruits, although these have some fructose (fruit sugar) and are a little less bad.

Fast carbs are called fast carbs because they release the sugar into the blood very quickly, which makes for the insulin spike. Now the body does need carbohydrates, but they should be slow carbs.

Slow carbs are complex carbohydrates that release sugar into the bloodstream rather slowly. Eating these, the blood sugar levels remain relatively stable - they don't look like the alps, they look like the prairies. Most carbs in vegetables are slow carbs, especially when eaten raw. Full grain flour is also a much slower carb than white flour, because the dietary fibre contained slows down the resorption of sugar in the intestine. So the simple principle for a weight loss diet is:

1. replace all white flour with full grain flour (there are many products now that are made with full grain flour instead of white flour), also white rice with brown rice, and

2. replace grain with vegetables whenever possible, and eat at least half of these vegetables raw. Some fruits are fine too, but for really good weight loss, only little [sweet] fruits.



Of course it is also important to move a lot. Moving builds muscles, and the more muscles you have, the more calories you burn, even if you are not moving at all! Also slow (aerobic) body motion puts the body into fat burning mode.



There is a lot more to be said about a complete and healthy diet - a lot to be said about fats, cholesterol and all these buzz words - so this post is in no way a complete diet manual, but it should serve to give you some first steps to do in handling excess weight.

There are many rewards - not only looking and feeling sexy - also feeling healthy and having more energy - also there are some people who think that a fit looking body is a demonstration of applied intelligence - which is why I am still not back to the nudist beach, even though I am beginning to have the time for it - I simply don't look intelligent enough yet



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[lkwdblds]

Comments on the diet.

Very little of this is new to me. The 2200 calorie threshhold before the body starts sending the signal it is full, is new, I did not know that. THe only thing which I found that causes the "full signal" to be sent is eating oils such as a tablespoon of peanut butter or a bag of nuts. That does send the "full signa"l but after you consume those foods which are fattening, the full signal is sent too late.

The other thing is to shrink the stomach. My meals are too large so I would have to shrink my stomach by quite a bit to get the full signal to turn on earlier than it does. I have found that to shrink my stomach, I have to suffer for about one and a half to one to two weeks to cause the stomach to shrink. It is not that long of a time but it requires suffering a bit.

I eat absolutely no white flour, if I can help it, we never buy anything made with that and also I do not care for extremely sweet foods and desserts and try to use no sugar. My Grandma, who lived 106 years and my Mom were both into health foods and would not allow white flour and refined sugar into the house so I was raised without those and try at all costs to avoid them.

Where I fall down is in exercise level and in snacking, especially late at night.
On the exercise, I joined a gym in 1962 at work and worked out for 25 years to 1987. That year, my gym, Jack LaLane's closed their doors and my daughter was born and my wife wanted more help with a 4 1/2 year old Son and a baby daughter. As a result, I did not renew with the gym and gave it up. Now, I am sedentary and only walk a little and ride a stationary bike a little. That is really my downfall because I am not burning 2200 calories daily. When I went to Europe last summer, I was walking 5 to 8 miles a day and my weight did drop 10 pounds while on the trip.

The other major flaws are going out to a restaurant lunch almost every day and then snacking at night while working on the computer or watching the political shows on TV. Also ex wife and I are still very good friends and we like to go to a restuarant about once a week in the evening for the enjoyment and to keep up our new roles as very good friends. We both eat a sensible meal but it is the extras, such as filing up on bread before the meal arrives or munching on chips at a Mexican type place that is deadly.

Summary: All I am doing wrong is 1. Not Exercising Enough. 2. Due to #1, my stomach is enlarged #3. I eat out too often #4. I snack too often expecially in the evening. Everything else is in pretty good, avoidance of white flour and refined sugar, very little alcohol, very little meat other than chicken and fish, eat a salad with almost every lunch and dinner, have tons of natural veggies with lunches and dinners, almost no desserts. Eat complex carbos instead of quick energy combos. I need to be able to get in #1 thru #4.
Lakey

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Plan to move more!

Lakey, next time we get together, we're goin for a walk!

I think a little more dancing in life might be good for us all! Hummm??? Mark E...you, too!

Wow Heidrun, thanks for all that good advice...I'd like to hear the rest of your info on fats etc. when you find time, and congrats on your successes with this! Anybody else have anything to share with us on this topic? Rog???

Note to Heidrun: There's a nude beach in Austria? :confused2: I'm totally revising my image of Austrians! No WONDER Lakey liked it there so much! (Just teasing!)