The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[Leon]

Cape Town has a nude beach called Sandy Bay where I used to go to for years. On my first visit I was at first a bit gawky-eyed looking at all the naked people but very soon just thought "What the hell" and looked at more interesting things. Some people are fat and some skinny and some boobs look this whay or that way - who cares? Any self-consciousness I had about myself and my body just blew and has been gone ever since.

Nudity is a tremendous leveller - you chat to someone there and get along really well and later find out he's a CEO of some big corporation and someone else is the daughter of some well known poiticaian or whatever. When you're all nude you're all equal, and agaion, who cares?

What I found really obscene was going to a "normal" beach afterwards and I saw all these people covering their precious little secret private parts with little bits of cloth - Ugh! I mean really, to have so much attention fixed on hiding something so completely irrelevant - there's got to be something wrong with these people.

 

[lkwdblds]

I agree with you on nudity but.....

Hi Lakey,


your honesty and insight is totally touching.

I was going to make short remarks about this topic and ended up writing the entire long post above.

I can see from your point of view. Much comes from one's upbringing. I was brought up by nudist parents and to me, the other mindset is unfamiliar, but I can understand your line of thinking!

Yes, I agree and understand your line of thinking. What was the name of that 1950's song by Nat King Cole or someone like that, "Two different Worlds, We Live In" Carmelo, you're good at songs, do you remember it?

Whether people run around with or without clothes really doesn't make a difference for me. Under their clothes they are all naked, and I know exactly how they look without clothes. If their figure is out of control, clothes don't hide it, and it tells me instantly where they have issues. To a critical eye, that would make them vulnerable, but to a loving eye, each detail they reveal is one point more where I can do something to help.

How refreshingly altruistic! Very admirable way of looking at things.

Also I agree that there is not much of an aesthetic kick in genitals. Seems that to you the optical sense (vision) is very important. Again there is something different important to me: the amount of beingness that is granted to them. A person who has to hide any part of themselves or their body because its sight is condemned by others is suppressed and unmocked to exactly that degree - whether it's genitals in our culture, faces and pretty much any part of the female body in Islam countries, psychiatrists by Scientologists, obese people by fit people, spiritual awareness by materialists, science by the established churches, or any other part of anyone's beingness, physical, energetic or spiritual.

Yes, optical (vision) and then tactile (touch)!!! Just those two do it for me. If I like what I see, I want to touch, both light stroking touching and firm grabbing and squeezing touch as well, If I don't like what I see, I just walk away and make no effort to understand the person any further or grant beingness to any facet of the person as a potential 2D. Have you seen the movie Shallow Hal, that was a re enactment of my life story! If I reject a person as a 2D candidate, I still try and be personable and be friends with them. Their is a strong spark of humanity there but as far as my 2D wiring, it is very low grade, base and animalistic.

When a guy is 25 to 30, he can achieve success with this approach, in his 60's and 70's, the pickings are slim, few women who the 70 year old is drawn to will pay him any attention. Its as if the shallowness that he once exhibited is now "comming home to roost", how does that saying go, "the chickens are coming home to roost." One is receiving his "comeuppance" for being insensitive and being a Chauvenist in the past. Heidrun, you have lofty mental and spiritual goals and also a high minded approach to the human body. I, Lakey, have the high minded mental and spiritual goals but am a complete "troll" or "ogre" in matters relating to the body. In those matters, I am totally unevolved.

I simply want a person to be welcomed by their environment in all of their aspects. I want beingness granted to all of their aspects. I want cultures who suppress any aspects of their members to be processed back to sanity.

Imagine a shimmering pearl on your hand. Such a pearl is each and every person in the hand of God, whether they are beautiful or ugly, fat or slim, bright or dumb, aberrated or sane - naked or dressed. They shouldn't have to hide any of their reality. I want people to be seen with the same admiration and care that you feel when you look at the pearl in your hand. And yes, I could go on and on with this, but I think you got the idea!



.

I admire your evolved attitudes on being naked and other matters which you have discussed. For some reason, maybe just being wired as male and not as a female, I admit that I lack the quality of being as evolved as you are on the physical side of existence. If a guy does not feel what you feel and is still responding to lust and carnal desires at age 70, he has got a problem.
Lakey

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

What was the name of that 1950's song by Nat King Cole or someone like that, "Two different Worlds, We Live In" Carmelo, you're good at songs, do you remember it?

it was by Hank Williams, Jr.'s father. I've forgotten his name.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

CHILD LIKE QUALITIES AND SPIRIT OF PLAY - I am a 70 year old child. I was not able to get serious about things as I grew up, which I looked at as a shortcoming or character flaw. I first found Buddhism at age 27 and the resulting meditation got rid of some seriousness which I had developed by then and at age 30, Scientology and especially lower bridge auditing got rid of all my seriousness and returned me to a childlike state. I took my child like attitude to the Apollo with me figuring it would be a great asset but onboard the Apollo, a childlike attitude was an anathema. The Apollo was deadly serious, based on the LRH writing that Scientology is a deadly serious activity on which the life of every man, woman and child on Earth depends. I believed in that assertion and deduced that my childlike attitude and totally truthful approach were enormous character flaws which I probably would not be able to correct until OT 8. I ALSO SPOTTED A DICHOTOMY BETWEEN "A DEADLY SERIOUS ACTIVITY" AND OTHER MAXIMS, i.e. "IF IT ISN'T FUN IT ISN'T SCIENTOLOGY." Boy was I confused!! A year after leaving Flag in late 1974 I went up to Sacramento by myself to visit an old non Scio friend. I was at a low point and after my visit to my friend, I noticed a Scio Mission nearby as I was driving away and stopped in. Alan Walter, whom I knew a little from his attending opinion leader meetings at CCLA in 1973 was alone in this mission and talked to me for a good 15 to 20 minutes. Alan gave me some real sound advice and got me to be active in C of S again. That was the last time I ever saw or heard from him. I was shocked when I arrived here one year ago to find that Alan was one of the big icons of ex-Scientology!

Being childlike and being brutally honest and straight up has plus points and out points as far as living one's life. I think the plus points are that one can grow more as a being and reach higher states of awareness than those who habitually lie or are chronically out of valence while the out points have to do with it being harder to be successful in business and make lots of money and also make it harder to woo the opposite sex.

There's a saying,
"In one ear and out his mouth"

That core philosophy that you are stating isn't very workable on this planet.

Look at Aaron Saxton, on ESMB. he is getting his troubles handed to him by the Co$ for being honest, forthright, and naive.

The Co$ is, in many ways, EVIL. You do not fight evil (with as much money as the Co$ has) with complete openness. It is not a survival mode.

Francis Marion, the Swamp Fox, had the right idea about fighting the British in the American Revolution. Walking straight up to British mercenaries would have got him killed.

Your attitudes probably work better - in terms of survival in another universe.

On the other hand, I don't want you to perceive this as criticism. If you're going to suppress yourself, that is wrong too. Better to see the others' viewpoint and work with it out of a desire to share and be in agreement rather than Enforced and Inhibited. You cut yourself off from too many people by not understanding the rules they play by.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Hi Lakey,


your honesty and insight is totally touching.

I can see from your point of view. Much comes from one's upbringing. I was brought up by nudist parents and to me, the other mindset is unfamiliar, but I can understand your line of thinking!

Whether people run around with or without clothes really doesn't make a difference for me. Under their clothes they are all naked, and I know exactly how they look without clothes. If their figure is out of control, clothes don't hide it, and it tells me instantly where they have issues. To a critical eye, that would make them vulnerable, but to a loving eye, each detail they reveal is one point more where I can do something to help.

Also I agree that there is not much of an aesthetic kick in genitals. Seems that to you the optical sense (vision) is very important. Again there is something different important to me: the amount of beingness that is granted to them. A person who has to hide any part of themselves or their body because its sight is condemned by others is suppressed and unmocked to exactly that degree - whether it's genitals in our culture, faces and pretty much any part of the female body in Islam countries, psychiatrists by Scientologists, obese people by fit people, spiritual awareness by materialists, science by the established churches, or any other part of anyone's beingness, physical, energetic or spiritual.

I simply want a person to be welcomed by their environment in all of their aspects. I want beingness granted to all of their aspects. I want cultures who suppress any aspects of their members to be processed back to sanity.

Imagine a shimmering pearl on your hand. Such a pearl is each and every person in the hand of God, whether they are beautiful or ugly, fat or slim, bright or dumb, aberrated or sane - naked or dressed. They shouldn't have to hide any of their reality. I want people to be seen with the same admiration and care that you feel when you look at the pearl in your hand. And yes, I could go on and on with this, but I think you got the idea!

.

I couldn't have said this at all, much less better. Emotionally, I knew it, but no words came to mind.

I grew up skinny dipping in the river, just as my father and his sisters had before me.

 

[Blue Spirit]

Missed ?

Excellent but you may have missed naming the biggest moralizer of them all, The Lone Ranger and his faithful Indian companion, Tonto. After Tonto's gig was over on the Lone Ranger Show, he became a Scientologist, trained up to Class VIII and audited celebrites for CCLA for the first couple of years that Celebrity Centre was open. The great American Indian, Jay Silverheels helped Yvonne Jentzch open Celebrity Centre in Los Angeles. (For those of you who haven't read my account of how Celebrity Centre was founded, either read it or ignore this passage about Tonto - it is an inside joke.)
Lakey

I didn't miss him as he was my favorite ! (look again)

 

[lkwdblds]

Thanks Carmelo! This post really helped me.

There's a saying,
"In one ear and out his mouth"

That core philosophy that you are stating isn't very workable on this planet.

I don't know if it is a core "philosophy", I do not preach this way of living to others, it seems to be just the way I am naturally. It doesn't seem to have the normal Red Flags which turn on when something is not the person himself. It seems more like hardwiring. I haven't met many people who are anything like me. The closest to it who I ever found was the Staff Hatting Course Supervisor at CCLA, Carole Ferguson. She was pretty much a female version of it. That was the girl the flamboyant and sexy Wings Hauser chose to have a brief sexual affair with. Carole was not quite the same after that affair - she had much more self confidence. This friend Ken whose cousin got me into Scn and who I have know since 1953 in Jr. High has a lot of the traits but also there are some key differences.

Look at Aaron Saxton, on ESMB. he is getting his troubles handed to him by the Co$ for being honest, forthright, and naive.

Just a cursory examination of him also shows him to be arrogant, which is one trait I don't have and it seems that trait is making his road more difficult.

The Co$ is, in many ways, EVIL. You do not fight evil (with as much money as the Co$ has) with complete openness. It is not a survival mode.

I did not initially get into the ex-scio scene to fight the C of S. I just want to illuminate with the light of truth all the falsehoods which they are promoting. That is all I want to do as far as fighting them. Of course, if asked to do more, I am certainly going to consider it and am a big believer in taking responsibility for my area, which is Planet Earth.

Francis Marion, the Swamp Fox, had the right idea about fighting the British in the American Revolution. Walking straight up to British mercenaries would have got him killed.

Your attitudes probably work better - in terms of survival in another universe.

Yes they would!! This comment of yours was a very big help to me. There was good TA action, things shifting around. Thank you so much for this remark, Carmelo, it was so enlightening! I feel like when my Universe was brought down by interlopers, I decided I would always preserve my own integrity by keeping the truthfulness, openess and sanctity of my own Universe. I have been able to do it but at what a cost!! Never being real popular except in grade school, underachieving in life and being beset by continuous 2 D problems. Still, I sleep well at nights and have virtually no withholds

On the other hand, I don't want you to perceive this as criticism. If you're going to suppress yourself, that is wrong too. Better to see the others' viewpoint and work with it out of a desire to share and be in agreement rather than Enforced and Inhibited. You cut yourself off from too many people by not understanding the rules they play by.

Hey, as I have said before, I believe my Service Fac is totally handled. I appreciate well meant criticism.
LakeyI

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

I don't know if it is a core "philosophy", I do not preach this way of living to others, it seems to be just the way I am naturally. It doesn't seem to have the normal Red Flags which turn on when something is not the person himself. It seems more like hardwiring. I haven't met many people who are anything like me. The closest to it who I ever found was the Staff Hatting Course Supervisor at CCLA, Carole Ferguson. She was pretty much a female version of it. That was the girl the flamboyant and sexy Wings Hauser chose to have a brief sexual affair with. Carole was not quite the same after that affair - she had much more self confidence. This friend Ken whose cousin got me into Scn and who I have know since 1953 in Jr. High has a lot of the traits but also there are some key differences.
I did not initially get into the ex-scio scene to fight the C of S. I just want to illuminate with the light of truth all the falsehoods which they are promoting. That is all I want to do as far as fighting them. Of course, if asked to do more, I am certainly going to consider it and am a big believer in taking responsibility for my area, which is Planet Earth.

Your attitudes probably work better - in terms of survival in another universe.

Yes they would!! This comment of yours was a very big help to me. There was good TA action, things shifting around. Thank you so much for this remark, Carmelo, it was so enlightening! I feel like when my Universe was brought down by interlopers, I decided I would always preserve my own integrity by keeping the truthfulness, openess and sanctity of my own Universe. I have been able to do it but at what a cost!! Never being real popular except in grade school, underachieving in life and being beset by continuous 2 D problems. Still, I sleep well at nights and have virtually no withholds

Hey, as I have said before, I believe my Service Fac is totally handled. I appreciate well meant criticism.
LakeyI

not that I've ever audited anyone, or even been good at it, but occasionally I can indicate an item after obnosing an obvious quality.

We all get lucky now and again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1189N7mcS1Q

 

[Mark A. Baker]

I did not initially get into the ex-scio scene to fight the C of S. I just want to illuminate with the light of truth all the falsehoods which they are promoting. That is all I want to do as far as fighting them.

Unfortunately, Lakey, the Co$ & a few of the Ron "loyalists" among the freezone consider that to be the "dirtiest kind of attack" precisely because it is an attack for which they have no legitimate defense. Don't presume that an absence of malice on your part need necessarily result in an absence of malice on the part of another.

Truth to tell there are few people who are genuinely comfortable with what they may perceive as the "reckless" divulging of facts. So it is of little surprise that the Co$ could have this sort of response.

People often like to think of themselves as "Truth Seekers". Yet, "Truth Seekers" can be very selective in the truths they seek.


Mark A. Baker

 

[lkwdblds]

not that I've ever audited anyone, or even been good at it, but occasionally I can indicate an item after obnosing an obvious quality.

We all get lucky now and again.

Yea, right, you just got lucky. I did not just get off the turnip truck! You have an ability there, a real skill from your earlier days of training and you applied it with laser like precision to me, who you can see through like a book.

There's one thing about being totally honest and never stating any untruths. Its hard for most people to believe that anyone is like that so they dub in an ulterior motive or a logical reason why the person is trying to act so straight forward. They figure, "This guy is sooo naive and at his age, no one is like that and so he must be putting on an act for such and such a reason."

That is why it takes a pro to actually recognize that I am so extremely naive, totally honest and upfront and its not all an act.

You are infering that I cut myself off from too many people by failing to understand the rules they live by. Its hard to duplicate this. I go more by attraction. If the person is interesting and conversing with them is fun and enlightening and they have some sparks of charisma, then I will really make an effort to understand them and open my umbrella wide enough to accomodate them. With women there is also the factor of any opposite sex attraction which also makes me more willing to accomodate them and their beliefs. If I find a person boring or uninteresting, I am just polite and don't pursue the relationship any further. All that is pretty normal right? So how am I different from most other people. The hardest part is when a person is really attractive to you and you want thier friendship but they do not reciprocate, that happens to me fairly often and I am deeply hurt but then again, it also happens on the other flow where the person wants to get to know me better but I have insufficient interest in them. Isn't that all normal? It seems to me everybody except the most charismatic among us has this same dilemma so what am I doing that is different from the norm?
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Mark - I am willing to fight for the truth!

Unfortunately, Lakey, the Co$ & a few of the Ron "loyalists" among the freezone consider that to be the "dirtiest kind of attack" precisely because it is an attack for which they have no legitimate defense. Don't presume that an absence of malice on your part need necessarily result in an absence of malice on the part of another.

Truth to tell there are few people who are genuinely comfortable with what they may perceive as the "reckless" divulging of facts. So it is of little surprise that the Co$ could have this sort of response.

People often like to think of themselves as "Truth Seekers". Yet, "Truth Seekers" can be very selective in the truths they seek.


Mark A. Baker

Mark - Thanks for your informative post. I am willing to fight for the truth, to take some heat if necessary and hold a position in space and fight back. One of my idols is Stacy Brooks Young. She really stood in there for a long while and slugged it out with C of S. Her level of courage and willingness to fight is really exemplary as far as I am concerned.
Lakey

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Aaaay, Cisco!

I liked the concept of the old cowboy TV shows where each had a moral theme

to teach the kids right and wrong. The Lone Ranger (Kemosoby) and Tonto (my Favorite)
Gene Autry, Roy Rogers, Hopalong Cassidy, The Cisco Kid, and Zorro.

I grew up on all of those, LOVED the Cisco Kid!

But NOTHING compares to, Hi-ho Silver, away!

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Heidrun, thanks for your compliments about my refreshing honesty. From the very beginning of this life, perhaps earlier as well, I have always been open and honest, just innocently stating only truths and always attempting to be "in valence". The only time I will refrain from telling the truth is if someone asks me to so as to help them protect their identity or somesuch.

That is one major reason why I did not fit in well in the Sea Org even though I was a dilligent and hard worker. They demanded a shore story for every action which one took or talked about. They demanded, in the Flag Bureaux, that EVERY piece of paper be run through a shredder before being placed in a waste can. Every action which one took was taken under a false pretext, different from what was actually going on. This was so hard on me and so against my most deeply seeded core values. Every time I opened my mouth, I got into trouble with S.O. Management. Same here, to a much lesser degree on ESMB, I meet with someone in person or talk by phone and am very elated by what they have told me and blab it immediately in a post on this thread. Often the person will immediately contact me and tell me to erase certain passages and is a little pissed off with me for giving out information which might help OSA to figure out their identity. I eat crow and immediately change my post, hoping no one from OSA has read it.

CHILD LIKE QUALITIES AND SPIRIT OF PLAY - I am a 70 year old child. I was not able to get serious about things as I grew up, which I looked at as a shortcoming or character flaw. I first found Buddhism at age 27 and the resulting meditation got rid of some seriousness which I had developed by then and at age 30, Scientology and especially lower bridge auditing got rid of all my seriousness and returned me to a childlike state. I took my child like attitude to the Apollo with me figuring it would be a great asset but onboard the Apollo, a childlike attitude was an anathema. The Apollo was deadly serious, based on the LRH writing that Scientology is a deadly serious activity on which the life of every man, woman and child on Earth depends. I believed in that assertion and deduced that my childlike attitude and totally truthful approach were enormous character flaws which I probably would not be able to correct until OT 8. I ALSO SPOTTED A DICHOTOMY BETWEEN "A DEADLY SERIOUS ACTIVITY" AND OTHER MAXIMS, i.e. "IF IT ISN'T FUN IT ISN'T SCIENTOLOGY." Boy was I confused!! A year after leaving Flag in late 1974 I went up to Sacramento by myself to visit an old non Scio friend. I was at a low point and after my visit to my friend, I noticed a Scio Mission nearby as I was driving away and stopped in. Alan Walters, whom I knew a little from his attending opinion leader meetings at CCLA in 1973 was alone in this mission and talked to me for a good 15 to 20 minutes. Alan gave me some real sound advice and got me to be active in C of S again. That was the last time I ever saw or heard from him. I was shocked when I arrived here one year ago to find that Alan was one of the big icons of ex-Scientology!

Being childlike and being brutally honest and straight up has plus points and out points as far as living one's life. I think the plus points are that one can grow more as a being and reach higher states of awareness than those who habitually lie or are chronically out of valence while the out points have to do with it being harder to be successful in business and make lots of money and also make it harder to woo the opposite sex.

When it comes down to career, the most childlike person I know of was W.A. Mozart who was a child prodigy from the beginning and childlike his entire life. I was not Mozart in any past incarnation, I only wish I was because of his genius and talent. I would give anything to have what he possessed. He was perhaps the most naturally gifted artist in his field of anyone who ever lived and yet he was continually eclipsed by others and not recognized by those in authority who controlled the purse strings of the musical world at that time. Everyone could see that he was an exemplary musician in all facets of music, but they would often select the works of others over those of Mozart. The only person who really recognized Mozart for who he was was the second greatest musician living at that time, Franz Joseph Haydn. It took a man of his great stature to recognize Mozart's full genius but the average devotee of music or opera could not see it at first. Mozart was on the verge of becoming rich and celebrated just when he took ill and died one monnth before his 36th birthday. Even so, his success after his death has been phenomenal. They say that at any given moment of time here on Earth, some piece of his music is being played, either live music or recorded music. To me, he is the poster boy of living a life with a childlike attitude, limited success financially and during his career but receiving his full rewards and then some after he has moved on.
Lakey

Lakey, this is actually why you and I get along together so well, we are kindred spirits in this way...

 

[SweetnessandLight]

it was by Hank Williams, Jr.'s father. I've forgotten his name.

LOL! Carmelo!!!

 

[lkwdblds]

Cisco Kid's and Pancho's horses names.

I grew up on all of those, LOVED the Cisco Kid!

But NOTHING compares to, Hi-ho Silver, away!

I believe Cisco Kid's horse was name "Diablo" and Pancho's horse was named "Loco". Cisco always kissed a beautiful senorita at the end of a show.

Of course, Roy Roger's horse was Trigger, Gene Autry's was "Champion", there was another radio cowboy called Red Ryder whose horse was named Thunder and he had a young Indian boy as his sidekick whose name was Little Beaver but I can't remember his horses name, although he had a fast pony and rode without a saddle. One last show was "Straight Arrow" sponsored by Nabisco Shreaded Wheat. He was a Ranch Hand named Steve Adams and when trouble arose, he would go into a secrete cave and change into "Straight Arrow" who was an Indian. I don't know how he changed his race. It was mostly on radio but they may have made the jump to television. There was a big contest to name Straight arrows horse and the winning name was "Fury", later on adopted by Plymouth for its fastest cars.

Hopalong Cassidy was the biggest cowboy show when Television started up in 1948. Really they just recycled all his many old Cowboy movies; the role was played by William Boyd who also did more serious acting. When he was filming his cowboy movies, he was already pretty old looking, he looked at least 50 and his trademark was a full head of white hair (like me). He was still fit and had a pretty good build. As old as he was, they still had him winning his fist fights with younger much stronger looking outlaws. Oh yes, his famous white horse's name was Topper.
Lakey

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Tory Valentine Talk?

Apropos of nothing, I had a request to post this, so here goes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DnTZspYXlI&feature=sub

Consider it a public service announcement!

(Yes, the thread just got Rickrolled!)

Onward with the reminiscing!

 

[hbeer]

CHILD LIKE QUALITIES AND SPIRIT OF PLAY - I am a 70 year old child.

Beautiful.

Jesus Christ said that if we don't become like children, we will never enter the kingdom of heaven.



.

 

[hbeer]

Cape Town has a nude beach called Sandy Bay where I used to go to for years. On my first visit I was at first a bit gawky-eyed looking at all the naked people but very soon just thought "What the hell" and looked at more interesting things. Some people are fat and some skinny and some boobs look this whay or that way - who cares? Any self-consciousness I had about myself and my body just blew and has been gone ever since.

Nudity is a tremendous leveller - you chat to someone there and get along really well and later find out he's a CEO of some big corporation and someone else is the daughter of some well known poiticaian or whatever. When you're all nude you're all equal, and agaion, who cares?

What I found really obscene was going to a "normal" beach afterwards and I saw all these people covering their precious little secret private parts with little bits of cloth - Ugh! I mean really, to have so much attention fixed on hiding something so completely irrelevant - there's got to be something wrong with these people.

My thoughts exactly! And so well said!

Only "wrong" is maybe not the word I would use. They live in a huge implant station; it's not their own idea.



.

 

[hbeer]

Yes, optical (vision) and then tactile (touch)!!! Just those two do it for me. If I like what I see, I want to touch, both light stroking touching and firm grabbing and squeezing touch as well, If I don't like what I see, I just walk away and make no effort to understand the person any further or grant beingness to any facet of the person as a potential 2D. Have you seen the movie Shallow Hal, that was a re enactment of my life story! If I reject a person as a 2D candidate, I still try and be personable and be friends with them. Their is a strong spark of humanity there but as far as my 2D wiring, it is very low grade, base and animalistic.

When a guy is 25 to 30, he can achieve success with this approach, in his 60's and 70's, the pickings are slim, few women who the 70 year old is drawn to will pay him any attention. Its as if the shallowness that he once exhibited is now "comming home to roost", how does that saying go, "the chickens are coming home to roost." One is receiving his "comeuppance" for being insensitive and being a Chauvenist in the past. Heidrun, you have lofty mental and spiritual goals and also a high minded approach to the human body. I, Lakey, have the high minded mental and spiritual goals but am a complete "troll" or "ogre" in matters relating to the body. In those matters, I am totally unevolved.

[...]

I admire your evolved attitudes on being naked and other matters which you have discussed. For some reason, maybe just being wired as male and not as a female, I admit that I lack the quality of being as evolved as you are on the physical side of existence. If a guy does not feel what you feel and is still responding to lust and carnal desires at age 70, he has got a problem.
Lakey

Wow Lakey, each time I think you have reached 100% of possible honesty and insight, you come up and pile another 30% on top of that!

You are quite harsh with yourself. "Its as if the shallowness that he once exhibited is now "comming home to roost", how does that saying go, "the chickens are coming home to roost." One is receiving his "comeuppance" for being insensitive and being a Chauvenist in the past." I had to repeat that to believe it.

I think it's time you meet a lady who shows you real thetan love (that does NOT exclude the body). People of both sexes want to get out the maximum pleasure of a 2D encounter. Giving that maximum pleasure is not a priority to most of them. Meet one such lady, and then emulate what she does. That is a whole other dimension of lovemaking.




.

 

[lkwdblds]

Well that lets me in!

Beautiful.

Jesus Christ said that if we don't become like children, we will never enter the kingdom of heaven.



.

Well if that is true, I have got it made and apparently Sweetness and Light does as well, from what she just wrote. The problem for me is that I do not believe in the kingdom of heaven other than a potential heaven which could be fashioned by individual beings working in concert to build a "heavenly" Universe. There would be a lot of hard work involved to move from current conditions on planet Earth to a universe resembling the heaven talked of by Western religions. This is not to say that such a task is impossible. Most of us believe it is possible and that it is happening now. We just need to pick up the pace.
Lakey