The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[lkwdblds]

Maury Wills it is, the AMAZING Maury Wills.

Face here...checkin' in.

Gawd you guys are on a roll.

Lakey=Maury Wills...always playing full-out, relentless, scratching and clawing to get on base and then move up into scoring position...makes ya wanna get up there and take your swings.

Face

The speedy and Amazing Maury Wills it is Face! You did not want to walk Maury or allow him to reach base on a sacrifice or an error. He would get his hits farily regularly , about 30% of his at bats. Once on first, he would steal second, steal third and then be doing so much dancing around on third that it distracted the pitcher and the defense. Once Maury got to third base he would usually Score so change Face from Herb Score to Maury Wills who would nearly always score if he got on base.

Besides baseball, Face, did that apply to your sex life as well on board the Apollo or otherwise?
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

These are all in the woof and warp of Ethics - a subject which LRH referred to but never , other than by mere tokenism, incorporated into Scientology. Mary Freeman did the major contribution there with her developments.

"Most of us feel that we are entitled to respect, to be told the truth, to be treated fairly by others to be exchanged with fairly and things of this nature." These are all the inflow of Ethical conduct across one's dynamics. They are not group mores - they are far more fundamental than that.

However, allowing oneself to go the effect of a violation of these principles is a personal out-ethics issue since one is being effect when one should be cause.

Leon, the comment of yours which I underlined in blue in paragraph 2 is well stated, we agree that these are deeper than group mores.

Your paragraph 3, in blue, may be true but what is more important to me is that I did NOT allow myself to go the effect of these principles. The quick rememberance that Yvonne was recruiting for Treasury gave me a CHANCE ro remain in the game. I had no certainty that she would accept me for Treasury when I suggested that I would go there. When she was announcing that I was to be off loaded for one year she mentioned in passing that I was not eligible to be on the Org's technical staff. Though I was nearly in shock at the prospect of being off loaded just two months after quiting my aerospace job, I had enough wits about me to hear the adjective not eligible for Technical staff and I also remembered her pleas to the staff to recruit someone for Treasury. My necessity level was on a very high alert level as my entire survival was being threatened strongly in this Fitness Board.

Yvonne had no comm lag and immediately accepted my offer to be in Treasury. All of us were relieved and the matter was settled. Two years later, I wrote Yvonne a letter demanding to be returned to full time tech training as per the agreement I made with her at the Fitness Board. This shows me that I did not give up on my goal of being in tech. I put pressure on to go back to tech after helping to establish Treasury Division. I kept my Ethics in during this entire incident over a period of two years. Nevertheless, the charge from Keeler's actions and the Senior Execs at CCLA going along with those actions has never disapated. The thing is just as charged for me now as it was then. I kept my Ethics in all these years as regards this incident and yet this big ball of charge is sitting there whenever I think about it.

I AM NOT VIEWING THIS FOR PERSONAL GAIN ANYMORE BUT JUST AS AN ABSTRACT PROBLEM WHICH SHOWS A WAY ONE CAN BE EMOTIONALLY DAMAGED IN THE SEA ORG.

This incident and LRH's accusing me falsely of embezzling money from CCLA Treasury and insisting that my denials were lies are the two biggest singular incidents in my life. The LRH one I handled through talking with Mike Goldstein. LRH was just fishing for smaller overts by accusing me of a huge overt, hoping that in my denying the huge overt, I would offer up some smaller overt to placeate him. That incident is clean now, Thank God.

The Keeler incident will soon be cleared up as well. The new information I received from Ted and Leon will lead me to finally flatten this incident. Its going to happen soon and I will report on it when it is finally blown.
Lakey

 

[RogerB]

Leon, the comment of yours which I underlined in blue in paragraph 2 is well stated, we agree that these are deeper than group mores.

Your paragraph 3, in blue, may be true but what is more important to me is that I did NOT allow myself to go the effect of these principles. The quick rememberance that Yvonne was recruiting for Treasury gave me a CHANCE ro remain in the game. I had no certainty that she would accept me for Treasury when I suggested that I would go there. When she was announcing that I was to be off loaded for one year she mentioned in passing that I was not eligible to be on the Org's technical staff. Though I was nearly in shock at the prospect of being off loaded just two months after quiting my aerospace job, I had enough wits about me to hear the adjective not eligible for Technical staff and I also remembered her pleas to the staff to recruit someone for Treasury. My necessity level was on a very high alert level as my entire survival was being threatened strongly in this Fitness Board.

Yvonne had no comm lag and immediately accepted my offer to be in Treasury. All of us were relieved and the matter was settled. Two years later, I wrote Yvonne a letter demanding to be returned to full time tech training as per the agreement I made with her at the Fitness Board. This shows me that I did not give up on my goal of being in tech. I put pressure on to go back to tech after helping to establish Treasury Division. I kept my Ethics in during this entire incident over a period of two years. Nevertheless, the charge from Keeler's actions and the Senior Execs at CCLA going along with those actions has never disapated. The thing is just as charged for me now as it was then. I kept my Ethics in all these years as regards this incident and yet this big ball of charge is sitting there whenever I think about it.

I AM NOT VIEWING THIS FOR PERSONAL GAIN ANYMORE BUT JUST AS AN ABSTRACT PROBLEM WHICH SHOWS A WAY ONE CAN BE EMOTIONALLY DAMAGED IN THE SEA ORG.

This incident and LRH's accusing me falsely of embezzling money from CCLA Treasury and insisting that my denials were lies are the two biggest singular incidents in my life. The LRH one I handled through talking with Mike Goldstein. LRH was just fishing for smaller overts by accusing me of a huge overt, hoping that in my denying the huge overt, I would offer up some smaller overt to placeate him. That incident is clean now, Thank God.

The Keeler incident will soon be cleared up as well. The new information I received from Ted and Leon will lead me to finally flatten this incident. Its going to happen soon and I will report on it when it is finally blown.
Lakey

Lakey, my Man,

If I might be so bold as to say . . . . back there in both the Keeler denial and LRH false accusation incidents, you actually failed to apply the correct org "process."

Several thing likely happened (this might come across as an eval from me, so inspect it don't automatically accept it) . . .

1) When one gets hit with a shock like the betrayal pulled by Keeler and also LRH, one can lose one's "position" of presence and Being. That word position has a lot of connotations that apply here, so it's worth looking up. The result of that loss of position and presence can be either a collapsing of one's space and size of Being or a dispersal away from the correct position one was occupying.

2) One flips to effect of the situation instead of maintaining one's capacity to determine and cause what one wants. This is part and parcel of the loss of power due to loss of presence scenario.

So, the correct process to have applied would have been this: one should have maintained one's position of truth and cause, and called for and demanded a Board of Investigation. That being the correct in org handling to establish truth.

You call for it on the false scene created by the violations by Keeler and LRH.

The trick is to not accept or wear the shit the nasties want to try and put on you.

I once pulled the calling for a B of I trick on Spike Bush at FSO, and it successfully stopped the shit being pulled.

This process also actually works in real life outside of the org The B of I step is lightly done by doing a personal inspection of the scenario to validate truth.

PS: I would also add that the false scene created by the violations of truth by Keeler, not only knocked you off of your true want but also led to you adopting a substitute game/Beingness . . . and this too became part of the sequence of violations (and this last one, a violation by you of your own true basic want). It is one of the tech points we use in Kn, that the adoption of substitute Beingesses/games is one of the reasons earlier shit hangs up . . . and that's because the substitute, as a solution, masks the sequence of violations and the charge related to them.

R

 

[AnonyMary]

Lakey, my Man,

If I might be so bold as to say . . . . back there in both the Keeler denial and LRH false accusation incidents, you actually failed to apply the correct org "process."

Several thing likely happened (this might come across as an eval from me, so inspect it don't automatically accept it) . . .

1) When one gets hit with a shock like the betrayal pulled by Keeler and also LRH, one can lose one's "position" of presence and Being. That word position has a lot of connotations that apply here, so it's worth looking up. The result of that loss of position and presence can be either a collapsing of one's space and size of Being or a dispersal away from the correct position one was occupying.

2) One flips to effect of the situation instead of maintaining one's capacity to determine and cause what one wants. This is part and parcel of the loss of power due to loss of presence scenario.

So, the correct process to have applied would have been this: one should have maintained one's position of truth and cause, and called for and demanded a Board of Investigation. That being the correct in org handling to establish truth.

You call for it on the false scene created by the violations by Keeler and LRH.

The trick is to not accept or wear the shit the nasties want to try and put on you.

I once pulled the calling for a B of I trick on Spike Bush at FSO, and it successfully stopped the shit being pulled.

This process also actually works in real life outside of the org The B of I step is lightly done by doing a personal inspection of the scenario to validate truth.

PS: I would also add that the false scene created by the violations of truth by Keeler, not only knocked you off of your true want but also led to you adopting a substitute game/Beingness . . . and this too became part of the sequence of violations (and this last one, a violation by you of your own true basic want). It is one of the tech points we use in Kn, that the adoption of substitute Beingesses/games is one of the reasons earlier shit hangs up . . . and that's because the substitute, as a solution, masks the sequence of violations and the charge related to them.

R

I experienced a similar thing while on a project, except someone at WDC called the BOI. It started as a witch hunt and ended with a cram ordered which then got cancelled because I'd never been hatted on the HCO PL.
Perseverence and knowledge of their rules paid off in that matter but, sadly, that has not been the case for others.

 

[Ted]

Lakey, my Man,

If I might be so bold as to say . . . . back there in both the Keeler denial and LRH false accusation incidents, you actually failed to apply the correct org "process."

Several thing likely happened (this might come across as an eval from me, so inspect it don't automatically accept it) . . .

1) When one gets hit with a shock like the betrayal pulled by Keeler and also LRH, one can lose one's "position" of presence and Being. That word position has a lot of connotations that apply here, so it's worth looking up. The result of that loss of position and presence can be either a collapsing of one's space and size of Being or a dispersal away from the correct position one was occupying.

2) One flips to effect of the situation instead of maintaining one's capacity to determine and cause what one wants. This is part and parcel of the loss of power due to loss of presence scenario.

So, the correct process to have applied would have been this: one should have maintained one's position of truth and cause, and called for and demanded a Board of Investigation. That being the correct in org handling to establish truth.

You call for it on the false scene created by the violations by Keeler and LRH.

The trick is to not accept or wear the shit the nasties want to try and put on you.

I once pulled the calling for a B of I trick on Spike Bush at FSO, and it successfully stopped the shit being pulled.

This process also actually works in real life outside of the org The B of I step is lightly done by doing a personal inspection of the scenario to validate truth.

PS: I would also add that the false scene created by the violations of truth by Keeler, not only knocked you off of your true want but also led to you adopting a substitute game/Beingness . . . and this too became part of the sequence of violations (and this last one, a violation by you of your own true basic want). It is one of the tech points we use in Kn, that the adoption of substitute Beingesses/games is one of the reasons earlier shit hangs up . . . and that's because the substitute, as a solution, masks the sequence of violations and the charge related to them.

R

That's good, Rog. Good point!

As for the justice system, you are correct on that, too, provided the justice system, anyone's justice system, has not been corrupted. Factor corruption as an influence and then it is a total crap shoot with odds favoring the "house."

Having spent some time working in the career search industry, I interviewed and trained a fair number of people who had lost their position. I am not talking hamburger flipper, I am talking people with 4-year degrees, some with Masters, some with PhDs, and military officers. The ones who handled the loss best or easiest where those who retained self-confidence. They were less dependent on what the position provided, usually income, than the ones who were highly dependent.

Many were downsized or rightsized or forced to take early retirement. The degree of their dependency and immediate threat to survival related to their reaction to the termination. I even saw a few people who appeared to be close to suicidal. They were the most dependent. They were the one's who could not envision a solution or a future. Getting caught up in rightsizing certainly can violate a person's expectations and sense of entitlement. It is tough on an experienced, old fellow to be replaced by two recent college grads, each at half the older fella's pay, each with none of his experience.

LRH was probably right when he wrote the two rules for happy living. Perhaps this was just his philosophical sales pitch, something he did not follow his own self, I do not know. I do know that to be willing to experience anything, after the fact of an event, a being has to sort out the responsibilities he gave away in order to be a member of a team or play the game. Addressing expectations and entitlements can be a bridge that has to be crossed on the road to recovery otherwise they sit there like fixed, unworkable ideas and old solutions.

 

[Ted]

For Lakey

Lakey, my man, I wonder if you are fully aware of the factors that are driving this thread forward?

It's entertaining, it's informative, it's probably different things to different people that keep them coming back. Certainly the thread title is one of interest. Then we go off on a sort of bait and switch discussing all manner of things -- but who cares at this point?

As for me, I am stuck on helping. If I sense there's someone I might be able to help with my experience or perspective I am right there giving an effort.

For me what drives it forward is an appreciation of the knowledgable posters. I really like the tech and life insights.

YOU drive the the thread with your open acknowledgement and appreciation. 'Tis YOU, Lakey. You keep it alive with your open appreciation.

I am taking a guess here, but I think that if you had been appreciated for all you brought to the Apollo, to LRH, to other scios, to planetary clearing, to your post(s), if someone had just said, "Hey, thanks for being here," often enough, or at some critical juncture, you might have moved out of the Apollo a long time ago.

What does a being bring to the job beyond the work he performs with his hands? Honor, integrity, commitment, perseverance, care, responsibility... A lot more. Who ever acknowledges or appreciates these things? Few. It is usually the home run hitters, the heavy hussar registrars, Class 12's, and LRH who get the kudos. LRH was an admiration junkie.

So, thank you, Lakey. Thank you for being here. Thank you for the thread. Thank you who you really are. Thank you... You can fill in the blank.

As for me, just a little fucking appreciation and recognition keeps me going strong!

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

The speedy and Amazing Maury Wills it is Face! You did not want to walk Maury or allow him to reach base on a sacrifice or an error. He would get his hits farily regularly , about 30% of his at bats. Once on first, he would steal second, steal third and then be doing so much dancing around on third that it distracted the pitcher and the defense. Once Maury got to third base he would usually Score so change Face from Herb Score to Maury Wills who would nearly always score if he got on base.

Besides baseball, Face, did that apply to your sex life as well on board the Apollo or otherwise?
Lakey

I was saying that you, Lakey, were the Maury Wills of this thread...so the sexlife question is yours to answer.

Face

 

[lkwdblds]

Yes, please be so bold as to say.......

Lakey, my Man,

If I might be so bold as to say . . . . back there in both the Keeler denial and LRH false accusation incidents, you actually failed to apply the correct org "process."

Several thing likely happened (this might come across as an eval from me, so inspect it don't automatically accept it) . . .

1) When one gets hit with a shock like the betrayal pulled by Keeler and also LRH, one can lose one's "position" of presence and Being. That word position has a lot of connotations that apply here, so it's worth looking up. The result of that loss of position and presence can be either a collapsing of one's space and size of Being or a dispersal away from the correct position one was occupying.

The definition I like best was, "Where one stands on Values, Ethics and Leadership."

To be honest, the Lakey of 1973 had earlier, much, much earlier on his time track given up much of his position and presence and his space was already drastically collapsed. Both events hit with huge shock value but they hit a being who was already severely weakened, a broken straw type of being who yet was not quite dead and still had some fight left in him. There was a temporary further collapsing of space but it was not irreversable.

I did not really lose position, most of mine had already been lost. What hurt so bad was that I was trying to regain some old size and position which I conceived I once had; I thought I had found the right group to help me achieve this but then they pulled the rug out from under me. It was like trying to get out of any eddy, spiraling you to the bottom of the ocean, finding a raft at your side, and beginning to rise towards the surface and then having the raft spring a leak and entangle you so you could not swim away from it. I was going down faster now, entangled with C of Scn.

2) One flips to effect of the situation instead of maintaining one's capacity to determine and cause what one wants. This is part and parcel of the loss of power due to loss of presence scenario.

So, the correct process to have applied would have been this: one should have maintained one's position of truth and cause, and called for and demanded a Board of Investigation. That being the correct in org handling to establish truth.

You call for it on the false scene created by the violations by Keeler and LRH.

The trick is to not accept or wear the shit the nasties want to try and put on you.

I once pulled the calling for a B of I trick on Spike Bush at FSO, and it successfully stopped the shit being pulled.

This process also actually works in real life outside of the org The B of I step is lightly done by doing a personal inspection of the scenario to validate truth.

PS: I would also add that the false scene created by the violations of truth by Keeler, not only knocked you off of your true want but also led to you adopting a substitute game/Beingness . . . and this too became part of the sequence of violations (and this last one, a violation by you of your own true basic want). It is one of the tech points we use in Kn, that the adoption of substitute Beingesses/games is one of the reasons earlier shit hangs up . . . and that's because the substitute, as a solution, masks the sequence of violations and the charge related to them.

R

Calling a B of I never crossed my mind. I was a Life Repair and Straightwire release and a fledgling Dianetic Auditor. In my already weakened position as a being, calling a B of I on Class VIII's and OT VII's never occurred to me.

Trying to picture what might have happened, at CCLA, I probably would have suceeded in getting the B of I to take place. What would happened next is just a guess. The best outcome would be to be allowed to continue and finish my Dianetic Interneship. I really believe that Keeler would never have allowed this to go through. He wanted me out of tech period. No one can say with certainty what might have happened.

At the Apollo, I can virtually guarantee that no B of I would have taken place. I would have had to go against LRH. I was a complete nobody at Flag. LRH would have blown me off like a piece of dandruff from the lapel of his jacket. I would have quickly been declared and off loaded. I am pretty sure that within 2 days, I would have been on a plane home as a declared SP.

Now, what happened from there might have been good. I would have seen the International Justice Chief in L.A. and worked out of Treason or Confusion and got back on course probably at ASHO.

I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE BEEN RESPECTED AS THE MAN WHO STOOD UP TO LRH

Taking such a route would have restored some of my beingness and size in the eyes of others who heard about the story. More importantly, it would have restored how I felt about myself. I would have been very proud of myself and everytime I was challenged I would probably think to myself, "I stood up man to man to LRH, this pip squeek Qual Sec or whatever, sure is not going to stop me."

Okay Roger, some charge is blowing now as I write. I know I have a tendency to accept things easily and be gullable but the charge from the two incidents is blowing off here and now so let me see how much of it blows and re evaluate in a day or so. Thank you Rog for being so bold as to......!!

Its really nice being the manager of an All Star baseball team because all of the players go out of their way to give a helping hand to good old "coach"!

How about a slogan for this thread - THE APOLLO - 1973 THREAD - WHERE YOU ARE NEVER ALONE AND THERE IS ALWAYS HELP JUST AN EMAIL AWAY!
Lakey

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE BEEN RESPECTED AS THE MAN WHO STOOD UP TO LRH

Please read One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest and get back to me with that.

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Lakey, my man, I wonder if you are fully aware of the factors that are driving this thread forward?

It's entertaining, it's informative, it's probably different things to different people that keep them coming back. Certainly the thread title is one of interest. Then we go off on a sort of bait and switch discussing all manner of things -- but who cares at this point?

As for me, I am stuck on helping. If I sense there's someone I might be able to help with my experience or perspective I am right there giving an effort.

For me what drives it forward is an appreciation of the knowledgable posters. I really like the tech and life insights.

YOU drive the the thread with your open acknowledgement and appreciation. 'Tis YOU, Lakey. You keep it alive with your open appreciation.

I am taking a guess here, but I think that if you had been appreciated for all you brought to the Apollo, to LRH, to other scios, to planetary clearing, to your post(s), if someone had just said, "Hey, thanks for being here," often enough, or at some critical juncture, you might have moved out of the Apollo a long time ago.

What does a being bring to the job beyond the work he performs with his hands? Honor, integrity, commitment, perseverance, care, responsibility... A lot more. Who ever acknowledges or appreciates these things? Few. It is usually the home run hitters, the heavy hussar registrars, Class 12's, and LRH who get the kudos. LRH was an admiration junkie.

So, thank you, Lakey. Thank you for being here. Thank you for the thread. Thank you who you really are. Thank you... You can fill in the blank.

As for me, just a little fucking appreciation and recognition keeps me going strong!

I sure as hell fucking appreciate you.

 

[Ted]

I sure as hell fucking appreciate you.

'Preciate it, Facey.

 

[lkwdblds]

Guys, you are the greatest! Thank you so much!

You know the Harry Belafonte song, "Come Back Lisa" What the hell, I'll post the url.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GJ16klBPoke

Such a tribute from so many top people, "Water come to me eye."
So many top people contributing to this thread! "Wipe a tear from me eye."

Ted - Two things endeared me forever to your posting. The articles you wrote on that thread I started about Education and Study in Scientology from about a year ago plus your comment, "Is this any way to run a Navy?" A third more recent thing is being exposed to your fine website called "Ted". That is one classy web site putting out a lot of great information to the public.

Face - Sorry for confusing the issue, Okay, you will remain Herb Score and I will be the amazing Morey Wills. You must be commended, as I often do, for bringing the Apollo back into this thread in a big time way. Your own personal recovery from serious medical problems is also very inspirational. As far as scoring sexually, my record in the Orgs was poor. I had a near miss in 1977-78 with a certain opera singing waitress who was the sister of another opera sister. Unfortunately, I met her a little too late, she already had a boy friend and though I came fairly close, to breaking them up, she chose the other guy. Finally in late 1980 I Scored by meeting my wife, a very attractive 27 year old Scientologist, when I was nearly 41.

Carmelo - When you started poking around on this thread last October before we took off, I had the common sense to set aside my ego and offer to work with you.

I was telling Carmelo by phone a week ago that we play off against one another sort of like a comedy team or Bob and Ray on the radio. Look, there was Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis, two totally different personalities, George Burns and Gracie Allen, Abbot and Costello, Laurel and Hardy, et al. Two totally different personalities that can play off against one another. I saw this in Carmelo early on. I think without this interplay effect, the thread would have died out long ago. Carmelo does these photo pictorials about his family which rack up large numbers of viewers and he has an uncanny knack of selecting out stories off of the news wire which are really hot topics to discuss. Really, his contributions are enormously important here, in fact vital.

Roger B. - The Prince of Princes. Wise beyond understanding yet always there willing to share his knowledge. Never arrogant but acting just like one of the guys. Probably one of the very top most knowledgeable tech men on the planet. He brings so much to the table,,, what can I say.

Leon - He doesn't say much but when he does, it has always contributed heavily to clearing up something big which I did not understand. I think my tag as Roger's cross town rival is a cute way of describing him.

There are so many more all stars, Thetanic, very inciteful and conisitently good posting, ditto for Enthetan, FoTi who is so appreciative of us and comes up with a lot of timely remarks, Mark Baker, offering sage posts and a lot of wisdom, Blue Spirit a guy who most of us know and love is in there with his brand of posting, Sweetness and Light, the honorary thread hostess and so many others - I am going to leave out some important people but if you feel slighted just holler and I'll ack you formally.

Lakey - This is a character valence but I play my actual self. I don't mind poking fun at myself and bringing up my weaknesses. I talk a lot about myself but I am trying to use my own experiences as universal examples of how people can experience adversity and hopefully overcome it. Though it might appear otherwise, I am not seeking self aggrandisement. I am trying to take a page from the great Jack Benny and make jokes poking fun at myself. Its shtick, mainly conjured up to get people's interest, make them laugh and come back for more. There is a touch of show business in all this.

Wipe a Tear from Me Eye So with the Harry Belafonte song playing in the background, water has come to me eye thinking about this thread and all the beautiful and super able beings who post hear regularly. The commendations I just received initiated by Ted are overwhelming.

Final closing comment - A joke about tears told by the late commedian Pat Butram about former mayor of Los Angeles, Sam Yorty

Back in the 1980's on the radio an announcer asked Pat Burtam (Gene Autry's former sidekick) what he thought of L.A. mayor Sam Yorty. Pat thought a moment and said, "No question about it, he is the best mayor in the country.... (there is a pause and then he continued) now in the City, that's a different matter! The announcer asked, "Why do you say that?" Butram said, well let me but it this way, everytime I look at what Yorty has done for Los Angeles, it brings tears to my eyes." (Of course refering to L.A.'s smog and air quality which was much worse in the 80's than it is now.
Lakey

 

[Ted]

You know the Harry Belafonte song, "Come Back Lisa" What the hell, I'll post the url.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GJ16klBPoke

Such a tribute from so many top people, "Water come to me eye."
So many top people contributing to this thread! "Wipe a tear from me eye."

Ted - Two things endeared me forever to your posting. The articles you wrote on that thread I started about Education and Study in Scientology from about a year ago plus your comment, "Is this any way to run a Navy." A third more recent thing is being exposed to your fine website called "Ted". That is one classy web site putting out a lot of great information to the public.

Face - Sorry for confusing the issue, Okay, you will remain Herb Score and I will be the amazing Morey Wills. You must be commended, as I often do, for bringing the Apollo back into this thread in a big time way. Your own personal recovery from serious medical problems is also very inspirational. As far as scoring sexually, my record in the Orgs was poor. I had a near miss in 1977-78 with a certain opera singing waitress who was the sister of another opera sister. Unfortunately, I met her a little too late, she already had a boy friend and though I came fairly close, to breaking them up, she chose the other guy. Finally in late 1980 I Scored by meeting my wife, a very attractive 27 year old Scientologist, when I was nearly 41.

Carmelo - When you started poking around of this thread last October before we took off, I had the common sense to set aside my ego and offer to work with you.

I was telling Carmelo by phone a week ago that we play off against one another sort of like a comedy team or Bob and Ray on the radio. Look, there was Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis, two totally different personalities, George Burns and Gracie Allen, Abbot and Costello, Laurel and Hardy, et al. Two totally different personalities that can play off against one another. I saw this in Carmelo early on. I think without this interplay effect, the thread would have died out long ago. Carmelo does these photo pictorials about his family which rack up large numbers of viewers and he has an uncanny knack of selecting out stories off of the news wire which are really hot topics to discuss. Really, his contributions are enormously important here, in fact vital.

Roger B. - The Prince of Princes. Wise beyond understanding yet always there willing to share his knowledge. Never arrogant but acting just like one of the guys. Probably one of the very top most knowledgeable tech men on the planet. He brings so much to the table,,, what can I say.

Leon - He doesn't say much but when he does, it has always contributed heavily to clearing up something big which I did not understand. I think my tag as Roger's cross town rival is a cute way of describing him.

There are so many more all stars, Thetanic, very inciteful and conisitently good posting, FoTi who is so appreciative of us and comes up with a lot of timely remarks, Mark Baker, offering sage posts and a lot of wisdom, Blue Spirit a guy who most of us know and love is in there with his brand of posting, Sweetness and Light, the honorary thread hostess and so many others - I am going to leave out some important people but if you feel slighted just holler and I'll ack you formally.

Lakey - This is a character valence but I play my actual self. I don't mind poking fun at myself and bringing up my weaknesses. I talk a lot about myself but I am trying to use my own experiences as universal examples of how people can experience adversity and hopefully overcome it. Though it might appear otherwise, I am not seeking self aggrandisement. I am trying to take a page from the great Jack Benny and make jokes poking fun at myself. Its shtick, mainly conjured up to get people's interest, make them laugh and come back for more. There is a touch of show business in all this.

It's a great vaudeville show with a bit of the bawdy Burly-Q thrown in from time to time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=189Zme-Ioh8

 

[RogerB]

Yes, this is a classy thread, and the reason I feel it is so classy is the caliber of the folks who populate it.

Generally speaking they all want to contribute what they can by way of wisdom, fun, appreciation and acknowledgment of each other and, in general, pursuing the positive attributes of spirit.

Ted's post on help and appreciation sums it up very nicely.

There is an absence of the negative one-liner put down shit here, and so folks stay high and appreciative, and stay on the themes that are decent and are uplifting.

And for you Lakey, I see the process begun as you replied to my earlier post is still running, so I'll not comment further but let the process run . . . and then see what to say

R

 

[Enthetan]

The Networks provided several things to EL Ron El Rey and The Empire.

The Flag Bureaux would levy “Tribute” for their “Management Services" and “Support” Missions.

The Networks levied Tribute for their “Services” as well, which were: Stat Pushing, Exacting Control, Orders Enforcement, Internal Intelligence, Tribute Extraction.

Urq is a Prince of a Man and has insight into El Ron, The CEO that no one, outside of Mary Sue, was privy to.

Face

I remember an interaction with WISE back in the mid 80's, after I had left the SO. In response to a question as to what sort of management advice one could expect as a WISE member, the lady said that the company would have to grow much larger before it would be worth WISE's time to manage.

My thought at this was "Wait a minute. So, before WISE provides any management help and advice, the company's managers first have to thoroughly demonstrate that WISE's management expertise is unnecessary?"

That, on top of the utterly ridiculously one-sided WISE contract that they were trying to get people to sign then (when you really read it, it gave WISE the right to send in an open-ended mission which would suck all the funds out of the company when they felt like it), ended at the time any interest in having anything to do with being "managed" by them.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

I was telling Carmelo by phone a week ago that we play off against one another sort of like a comedy team or Bob and Ray on the radio.

We have faces made for radio.
(joke,,,,, old joke)

 

[Enthetan]

and you posted the Dirt Band doing "Will the Circle Be Unbroken?"

Here is the Dirt Band's first hit, Buy For Me the Rain:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qhUjixmP28

which was written by Steve Noonan

whose first ex wife, was my girl friend before he met her, who was my girl friend, at one point while they were married, and was my girl friend after they were divorced ( three separate periods).

whose sister, Laurie Noonan, was also my girlfriend, and who I got into Scientology. Who has been in the Sea Org for 37 fucking years. Whose daughter, Jessica Engelhart has herself been in the Sea Org nearly ten years and (obviously) raised in the mecca of hell hole perfection.

How can you look at that beautiful girl, and not slug me hard in the face for introducing her mother to Scientology? Ask me if I feel upset and guilt ridden about that.

Laurie's mom is still alive. Laurie has a sister and brothers that I am still connected to. They all know I'm the one who got her involved. They rarely see her. Boy, would I like to see the cult dismantled.

I remember Laurie Englehart as a great person. Her daughter looks just like I remember Laurie back in the 80's. I'm sorry to hear they're both still in.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

A joke about tears [/B]told by the late commedian Pat Butram about former mayor of Los Angeles, Sam Yorty

Back in the 1980's on the radio an announcer asked Pat Burtam (Gene Autry's former sidekick) what he thought of L.A. mayor Sam Yorty. Pat thought a moment and said, "No question about it, he is the best mayor in the country.... (there is a pause and then he continued) now in the City, that's a different matter! The announcer asked, "Why do you say that?" Butram said, well let me but it this way, everytime I look at what Yorty has done for Los Angeles, it brings tears to my eyes." (Of course refering to L.A.'s smog and air quality which was much worse in the 80's than it is now.
Lakey

I had friends with a picture of Sam Yorty glazed on the bottom of their toilet.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

CarmelO,

"Entitlements" are based on belief.

Beliefs stems from one's own thoughts on any subject or the adopting/accepting of another's or others' thoughts on things.

Such thoughts also lead to decisions . . . either way, the genesis of the ongoing condition of existence is a thought.

Alan devised a wonderful "Thoughts are Things R/D" with a little help cum prodding from RogerB

Two versions: a) one's own thoughts, b) other's thoughts.

Same R/D, just that, having recognized a thought you are operating on and affected by is from another, one simply processes it from the perspective that it was sourced by the other and then, at the end of the R/D the final steps are to "return the thought to sender/source."

An extended version of the R/D is in the case handling version of the CleanSlate . . . an original shorter, less complex version is in stand alone form.

This below is extracted from the extensive clean slate version.
________________________________

Tell me what your perceptions are about that (subject being addressed). Acknowledge their answer.

3. What precepts, beliefs or thoughts do you have about or from (thing being addressed from step 0)?
Get the person to look to the past, present or future for the answer and to tell you the precept, belief or thought. (By asking the person to look to the past. present or future, you are directing their attention to their projections, comprehension, visions. concepts, or minds.) Write down and acknowledge their answer.

4a. Connected to (named precept/belief/thought), where is it? Acknowledge their answer.

b. Connected to (named precept/belief/thought), what is its size? Acknowledge their answer.

c. Connected to (named precept/belief/thought), what is its form or shape? Acknowledge their answer.

d. Connected to (named precept/belief/thought), what is its color? Acknowledge their answer.

e. Connected to (named precept/belief/thought), what is its weight? Acknowledge their answer.
f. Connected to (named precept/belief/thought), what is its duration? Acknowledge their answer.

g. Connected to (named precept/belief/thought), what are its mood levels? Acknowledge their answer.

If there are low mood levels, run mood handling.
EXPERIENCE NEGATIVE MOOD HANDLING:
a. What part of (named mood) are you willing to experience?
b. What part of (named mood) would you rather not experience?
Repeat a and b over and over to Cause Indicators.

CREATE NEGATIVE MOOD HANDLING:
a. What part of (named mood) are you willing to create?
b. What part of (named mood) would you rather not create?
Repeat a and b over and over to Cause Indicators.

Find positive opposite mood and run: EXPERIENCE POSITIVE MOOD HANDLING:
a. What part of (named mood) are you willing to experience?
b. What part of (named mood) would you rather not experience? Repeat a and b over and over to Cause Indicators.

CREATE POSITIVE MOOD HANDLING:
a. What part of (named mood) are you willing to create?
b. What part of (named mood) would you rather not create? Repeat a and b over and over to Cause Indicators.

h. Connected to (named precept/belief/thought), what mood must not be experienced? Acknowledge their answer.
If there are must not be experienced mood levels, run mood handling.

i. Connected to (named precept/belief/thought), what mood must be experienced? Acknowledge their answer.
If there are must be experienced mood levels, run mood handling.

END PHENOMENA CHECK: After running all moods — check for interest or end phenomena.
EP: Connected to (named precept/belief/thought), how does it seem to you now? Acknowledge their answer.
* * * *
If client still has interest on (named precept/belief/thought), continue running:
j. Connected to (named precept/belief/thought), what are its limitations? Acknowledge their answer.

k. Does (named precept/belief/thought) create an image or vision? If”Yes”, say:
Tell me about it. Acknowledge their answer.

1. How does (named precept/belief/thought) manifest in your presence-time? Acknowledge their answer.

5a. How has or could (named precept/belief/thought) make you right about thing being addressed from step 0)? Acknowledge their answer.

b. What have been or could be the consequences of that? Acknowledge their answer.

c. How has or could (named precept/belief/thought) make another or others wrong about (thing being addressed from step 0)? Acknowledge their answer

d. What have been or could be the consequences of that? Acknowledge their answer.

e. What problem does or could (named precept/belief/thought) help you solve or escape from? Acknowledge their answer. Making sure you write down the exact problem.

f. 1. What part of (named problem) are you willing to confront and handle?
Acknowledge their answer.
f. 2. What part of (named problem) would you rather not confront and avoid handling? Acknowledge their answer.
Repeat f 1 and 2 over and over until the person has a rise in mood level, an increase in certainty, a realization (or Aha!), regained abilities, a big win, and huge quantities of recovered life-force particles.
Note: If the problem is too big, does not resolve, or is reoccurring, tell the person they will need to get this problem handled as soon as possible in professional processing.

g. Is there another problem that (named precept/belief/thought) does or could help you solve or escape from? Acknowledge their answer. If there is another problem, repeat steps f 1 and 2. Then repeat steps g and f 1 and 2 until all problems have been handled

6. Have there been or could there be any other consequences of having the precept (named precept/belief/thought)? Acknowledge their answer
Repeat question 6 until all past, present and future consequences have been viewed

7. Do you have or could you have any other precepts, beliefs or thoughts about or from (thing being addressed from step 0)?
Repeat questions 4 through 7 until all precepts have been viewed Then return to the beginning and repeat steps 0 to 7 until the person no longer has any unviewed projections, memories, precepts, belief thoughts, or consequences on the thing being addressed Then ask:

8. Connected to (thing being addressed from step 0), is there or do you foresee any unpleasant sensation?
If there is, get it named and run:
a, From where could a spiritual being experience (named unpleasant sensation)?
Repeat over and over until the person has a rise in mood level, an increase in certainty, a realization (or Aha!), regained abilities, a big win, and huge quantities of recovered life-force particles,
b. From where could a spiritual being create (named unpleasant sensation)?

Thank you. You are a fount of knowledge -- applicable knowledge, not trivia.

What this triggers in me is a question, that I had thought before.

When I first got involved with Scientology in 1968, I recognized ( perhaps falsely) that they would be able to do something about the problem I had. It was a mass. I had no words at that time. I was walking around in a benign fog. It arrived after dropping acid once. (I smoked grass and dropped acid as a part of living, following Tim Leary, Ralph Metzner, and Ram Dass, Alan Watts, Aldous Huxley, etc.) Suffice it to say, I was philosophically grounded. It wasn't superficially for kicks. On the other hand, it wasn't unusual to see Jerry Garcia coming out of a friend's house.

My thinking was clear, my perceptions were clean. Physically, I could run through puncture vines or broken glass because of heavy callouses on my feet from loads of barefoot running. But this fog was between me and everything and everyone else. Only I could see it.

They tried green form 40 and engram running. Nothing touched it. Then I did grade 6 and Clear in a week or two's time and it was gone forever. If I never did anything else in my life grade 6 and Clear were the major changes in my life, that I would pay $$$ millions for.

On the grade 6 solo course (circa late 60s early early 70s) there was a black and white movie where Ron talks about a last life in Rhodesia looking out over a valley and seeing these blocks of masses. When I saw / heard that, I said "Hallelujah" to myself. That's what I'm sitting in. Within a week this mass fog whatever was gone.

So when we / you / me talk about mass are we talking about GPMs or are we talking about ridges or maybe either?

 

[RogerB]

Thank you. You are a fount of knowledge -- applicable knowledge, not trivia.

What this triggers in me is a question, that I had thought before.

When I first got involved with Scientology in 1968, I recognized ( perhaps falsely) that they would be able to do something about the problem I had. It was a mass. I had no words at that time. I was walking around in a benign fog. It arrived after dropping acid once. (I smoked grass and dropped acid as a part of living, following Tim Leary, Ralph Metzner, and Ram Dass, Alan Watts, Aldous Huxley, etc.) Suffice it to say, I was philosophically grounded. It wasn't superficially for kicks. On the other hand, it wasn't unusual to see Jerry Garcia coming out of a friend's house.

My thinking was clear, my perceptions were clean. Physically, I could run through puncture vines or broken glass because of heavy callouses on my feet from loads of barefoot running. But this fog was between me and everything and everyone else. Only I could see it.

They tried green form 40 and engram running. Nothing touched it. Then I did grade 6 and Clear in a week or two's time and it was gone forever. If I never did anything else in my life grade 6 and Clear were the major changes in my life, that I would pay $$$ millions for.

On the grade 6 solo course (circa late 60s early early 70s) there was a black and white movie where Ron talks about a last life in Rhodesia looking out over a valley and seeing these blocks of masses. When I saw / heard that, I said "Hallelujah" to myself. That's what I'm sitting in. Within a week this mass fog whatever was gone.

So when we / you / me talk about mass are we talking about GPMs or are we talking about ridges or maybe either?

In simple terms, mass, any mass, spiritual or physical universe mass, is simply a compounding and reinforcement of energy vectors. the compounding factor comes from counter efforts or blocks and stops (spiritually, this comes from opposition to own or other's intentions, efforts or action). In the spiritual realm (and personally, I see it is also the stuff of the physical realm) "energy" is spiritual life-force as directed and deployed.

Ridges, as we both know are formed from/by opposed flows . . . . of guess what? Spiritual life-force flows.

A GPM mass is simply the complex mass that has accumulated on all of the intentions and identities that comprise the GPM or Games Matrix. And we know that the construct of these things is based on opponency between the identities involved in the GPM or Matrix.

So, there are many types of mass on the case, but they all stem from and are based on the above simple underlying phenomena.

In my personal experience I have found one of the keys to undoing masses is to recognize it is not you . . . i. e., the mass is not you: it is an accumulated energy phenomena . . . . . yes, it may be your energy that has accumulated; you sourced it, but is is not you.

You are you, and it is it.

Alan's "Mass Handling procedure" which is very similar to the "Thoughts are Things R/D" above causes you to locate the mass, etc. This separates it from you, and enables you to begin defining, handling and as-issing it.

Though it is equally true that any number of successful case action processes will dissolve and erase mass . . . this as you experienced and note above.

One thing to be alert to, however, is that there is a experiential phenomena that is very similar to a "mass" . . . at first, to newbies, it feels as a mass . . . . but it is actually a hung up Basic Chronic Mood that just sits there as a congealed expression of you in the "past," which when encountered in session or life can be mistaken for being a "mass."

We also have the R/D to discharge these and restore the life to you that has been locked up in such

Rog