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The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

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lkwdblds

Crusader
On Roger's post in reply to Ted

Part I about expectations and entitlements was a beautifully written essay which flowed like oil, was easy to track with and made perfect sense.

Part II about the Barbershop quartet example was very interesting, and the introduction of the concept of harmonics was helpful in attempting to grasp the situation from a technical point of you. The example of operating at the very high levels of the tone scale was very enlightening as well.

Trying to match things from the upper level points of view with lower level actions such as the 3rd party law is very interesting. I would like to hear more being done in that area.
Lakey
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
You don't get it mate.

I'm not here for entertainment, or for argument. I don't view ESMB as an arena for sport or for the demonstration of intellectual gymnastics.

And I'm certainly not here to try and prove or disprove anything, and for those who think I should have to indulge in catering to their wish that I "prove it to them" and "defend" what I say . . . screw it. They should do their own homework of investigation and testing to prove/disprove things. Types who make those kinds of challenges demonstrably only ever refuse to accept what is presented but always have another "argument."

As Max Planck, the Nobel Laureate physicist once said, “In science it takes sixty, not thirty years for a new and revolutionary idea to establish itself. Not only must the old professors die off, so must their students.” And I see this phenomena with old Scientologists: anything that does not match that failed paradigm is rejected, refuted, or misinterpreted as being the same as.:duh:

My attitude to that is, why be bothered with them; let them be as they wish.

I post with the intent to pass on what info or knowledge I have that I have found and consider will be of benefit to others . . . if you read and understand my posts, you will see I have constantly stated that fact.

I don't care whether individuals take on what I write or not. And I am certainly not interested in the silly little nit-picking exercises, of refutation and challenges and all that silly stuff that you seem to like and want to engage in.

It is a waste of time . . . . you see, you don't actually question: you refute and challenge. You don't seek to expand understanding and to clarify: you seek to refute. And with your constant altering of what is said in my writing and of going off the points at issue, I see it as a fruitless exercise in trying to deal with you. And certainly so since you want to engage in insults, as you did when I once said I was busy with something else and as you are doing in this current exchange. Why should anyone want to be bothered with someone who wants to insult them? :duh:

You can think as you wish. I have no compulsion to challenge you or change what you wish to belief; and I certainly have no desire to change your way of thinking. As I said, as far as what I write goes, you can take it or leave it. And if others want to believe you instead of me, they certainly have the right to do so.

R


Roger vehemently accuses others for not answering his questions though. He really got bothered once with me.

He doesn't play fairly with consistency. But who cares.

Knowledgism is very much like Scientology, no matter what Roger says.

Now watch the reaction.

.
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
I'd be quite happy to do that. In the meantime let's look at yours.

First we have friendly open communication.

Then I comment on your Pasadena talk, saying that even though Hubbard had discovered your discovery back in 1951 and published it (and more) yet you did well in discovering it independently. Yopu partially answered this and then withdrew with the comm incomplete.

Next you told me you needed to work on an answer to some questions of mine. They deserved a thorough answer, you said. Howver no answer or reply was forthcoming so I chided you on it.

Nest you were too busy to reply to things from me, much too busy with far more important things than the little game I was playing in life. However this intense business did not stop you from posting to others all over the chatroom and replying to them.

Next you proceeded to just ignore me.

Next you attacked me personally saying I did not deserve any answers from you, you were comtributing to the group by posting what you did and why should you be dragged into a conversation with me. (words to that effect)

Next - and this really amazed me) - yesterday morning (my time) there was a post from you saying that did not owe anyone a reply for anything! Your posts were your posts and anyone who didn't agree with them could . . (not in yor words but the meaning is clear) . . could go and get stuffed.


Now, Roger, I don't think I am the only one who sees a dwindling spiral at work here. Just where were you planning to go to next?


Sounds familiar!

.
 
Ted, Question 1 - When faced with a choice between a senior handling his junior with compassion and getting the product out of the junior or a senior handling the junior with yelling, threats and invalidation to get equal product out of the junior, are you saying that LRH would prefer the non compassionate handling?

Question 2 - On the bodhisattva experiencing pain along with a fellow human sufferer, is that sufficient for the bodhisattva to give up his state or should he also assist the sufferer to rid himslef of the pain. In short, is just suffering the pain sufficient to justify the act or is it a combination of both suffering the pain and learning something from the pain and possibly easing the pain which the bodhisattva is going for.
Lakey

Experiencing pain and suffering ourselves and then witnessing it in others is what inculcates compassion in us. Unschooled toddlers feel empathy (we're hardwired for it as a survival skill= eg. sympathy crying, etc.) but must be taught compassion. Compassion is learned behavior, that is the task that the Bodhisattvas take on, in my opinion...teaching and leading by example, so that others can gain more self-awareness, insight and wisdom, and thus learn to have more compassion for others, in a kind of pass it on type of growth spiral. That experiencing life in an embodied form will involve suffering of many types is a given, part of the territory. What are the uses of adversity? :)

P.S. Ron does NOT qualify as Maitreya to me! :no:
 
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Sounds familiar...

Okay, I read the quote over, it says caring for or being concerned for, that constitutes compassion.

Maybe the OT committee at Denver Org in 1975 were not idiots. I visited my brother and Goldstein at Denver Org in 1975. Carolyn, the head of their OT Committee would just sit at her desk in meditative contemplation. When she came out of her state, I asked her what was going on and she stated she was just postulating success for Scientology, a better world, etc. At lunch, a group of us talked it over and we all thought she was a nut job. We thought the OT Committee should DO something tangible and not just postulate.

Postulating is doing something so that would not be obeying the Dalai Lama's quote, right? I would think that once one cares and is concerned, the next step would be to offer help. I see that I am wrong there as to being a good Buddhist.

Limiting oneself to just caring and being concerned is a new concept to me. I am not ready to embrace it totally. It seems as if it is a great first step and the next step would be to do something. Since this assumption is not valid here, I am left at sea. I don't say its a bad concept and it may be a good concept but I just don't get it.
Lakey

Actually, this sounds just like what my Mother and her Pals mostly did when serving on the Spiritual Action Committee at her church! :D
 
I'm still not here, but i wanted to start a conversation about the 4th of July party. by tomorrow, I should have some time.

lakey, did you say "hi" to Don keeler. who did you mingle with?

I met a bunch of new people. I talked to a guy named Helmut, who has just left and brought dozens of people with him. I managed to say that LRH was a real asshole before I knew any of Helmut's story. Can you say foot in mouth?


There were people who had been butchered at Flag who I connected with.

There was a terrific singer.

I made some terrific connections/
.

talking to John R., who used to be a power auditor at ASHO in the 60s and suped the bc and Vll course was good. I hadn't seen him since early 70s.

I've been to that party off and on for years. That one two days ago was the best so far.
 

thetanic

Gold Meritorious Patron
I met a bunch of new people. I talked to a guy named Helmut, who has just left and brought dozens of people with him. I managed to say that LRH was a real asshole before I knew any of Helmut's story. Can you say foot in mouth?

I introduced myself to Helmut, but spent more time talking to one of the selectees he brought with him.

Here's his coming out on Marty's blog:
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/02/18/osa-third-party-operation/

And here are his videos about his leaving:
http://www.scientology-cult.com/videos/helmut-flasch-videos.html

And Helmut's SP declare of DM:
http://www.scientology-cult.com/david-miscavige-declared-suppressive.html

His leaving is a huge revenue stream loss for the CofS because it'll affect future possible revenues. Not everyone left with him, of course, but quite a few people did.
 

FoTi

Crusader
I'm still not here, but i wanted to start a conversation about the 4th of July party. by tomorrow, I should have some time.

lakey, did you say "hi" to Don keeler. who did you mingle with?

I met a bunch of new people. I talked to a guy named Helmut, who has just left and brought dozens of people with him. I managed to say that LRH was a real asshole before I knew any of Helmut's story. Can you say foot in mouth?


There were people who had been butchered at Flag who I connected with.

There was a terrific singer.

I made some terrific connections/
.

talking to John R., who used to be a power auditor at ASHO in the 60s and suped the bc and Vll course was good. I hadn't seen him since early 70s.

I've been to that party off and on for years. That one two days ago was the best so far.

Foot in mouth? Is/was LRH not a real asshole after all? :confused2:
 
Foot in mouth? Is/was LRH not a real asshole after all? :confused2:

to a person, just leaving the Co$, it is a really big reality break to even hear disparaging things about LRH.

in order to be a sucker for so long inside the Co$, there has to be a lot of faith in Ron.

The party just felt so free, I didn't edit my comments based on who I was talking with.

I told Blue Spirit to go fuck himself three or four times. I couldn't handle the petty morality box that he wanted to impose on my associate.

My associate was unaffected by Blue Spirit's comments. He has been to Aida and Dave's many times, and knows the lay of the land. He enjoyed everyone's hospitality, and the sharing of their food. He played and was entertained by the canine member of the household for the nearly 12 hours that we were there...
 
My associate was unaffected by Blue Spirit's comments. He has been to Aida and Dave's many times, and knows the lay of the land. He enjoyed everyone's hospitality, and the sharing of their food. He played and was entertained by the canine member of the household for the nearly 12 hours that we were there...

Your associate is one of the most theta beings I know. He is also tremendously amusing and a real good time! He reminds me of those "The Most Interesting Man in the World" commercials that are run on the tube. :thumbsup:


Mark A. Baker
 
I introduced myself to Helmut, but spent more time talking to one of the selectees he brought with him.

Here's his coming out on Marty's blog:
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/02/18/osa-third-party-operation/

And here are his videos about his leaving:
http://www.scientology-cult.com/videos/helmut-flasch-videos.html

And Helmut's SP declare of DM:
http://www.scientology-cult.com/david-miscavige-declared-suppressive.html

His leaving is a huge revenue stream loss for the CofS because it'll affect future possible revenues. Not everyone left with him, of course, but quite a few people did.


Here is a quote from Helmut's declare of DM:

Helmut Flasch is a Scientologist who over the last 20 years put about 40,000 people on some kind of first service of LRH, got dozens of press releases for LRH, got some of those brand new selectees to OT – even to OT VIII, made several of his selectees top Field Staff Members, and who is married to a OT VIII (Hellen Chen) who is a even better Field Staff member. (Helmut audited his wife on New Era Dianetics 20 years ago)

But mainly he is someone who says, “This is my Scientology too, and you, Mr. Miscavige, don’t mess with it.” He applied to Mr. Miscavige's reasoning with many write-ups and letters, but apparently he didn’t have any ethics change – so Helmut has given it here one more time:

Helmut comes across as so naive, goody two shoes, wearing rose colored glasses.

I probably couldn't have gotten past that blind faith to get him to understanding the Scientology I knew, where it was fairly common knowledge that LRH was an asshole, that he locked kids in the chain locker, that he got rid of Rocky Stump, John McMaster, Alan Walter, Jack Horner, etc etc etc .

back in the 60s, before standard tech and more extreme measures, freedom of speech was alive and well in Scientology.
 

FoTi

Crusader
The party just felt so free, I didn't edit my comments based on who I was talking with.

I told Blue Spirit to go fuck himself three or four times. I couldn't handle the petty morality box that he wanted to impose on my associate.

My associate was unaffected by Blue Spirit's comments. He has been to Aida and Dave's many times, and knows the lay of the land. He enjoyed everyone's hospitality, and the sharing of their food. He played and was entertained by the canine member of the household for the nearly 12 hours that we were there...

I wish I could have been there. I would have loved to see and hear what went on there. I'd love to play with the canine member also. :D

back in the 60s, before standard tech and more extreme measures, freedom of speech was alive and well in Scientology.

So was sex, having children and marriage without being ordered to divorce one's spouse. :eyeroll:
 

RogerB

Crusader
Wrong Target Vin

Roger vehemently accuses others for not answering his questions though. He really got bothered once with me.

He doesn't play fairly with consistency. But who cares.

Knowledgism is very much like Scientology, no matter what Roger says.

Now watch the reaction.

Hmmm, Vinaire with his personal attacks using falsehoods again. And of course accusing another of his actual misdeed . . . again.

I’m surprised the mods haven’t warned him of his breach of ESMB rules.

Let’s look at the factual history of what Vin is misrepresenting. I am spending the time doing this because I do not choose to let lies told about me stand. Vin has “courageously” pulled this stunt on other message boards where I don’t post as well, but I’ve ignored it there.

Back in May 2009, there was delightful dialogue between Vin and I, and also Leon on the Oh! God!! Thread.

8th May 2009, 11:00 AM #47 page 5 Oh God!
________________________________________
Vinaire said:
Originally Posted by RogerB

Vin, I have bolded and italicized the key parts in the above, as this is the point I was introducing in my question of the readers in my earlier post on this thread post below!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerB
Nicely put, Vin.

Here is something to ponder. "God," having created space, time, energy and matter can consider itself to be located relative to said space, time, energy and matter; or otherwise, it can consider that space, time, energy and matter is located relative to it

Now, what do you think the comparative consequences of either consideration would be?


RogerB

In my above reply to your opening post I raised the question of the distinction between "God" orienting itself by or in reference to MEST versus "God" orienting MEST relative to itself. And asked what would be the comparative consequences of each.

But I got no real takers

The question was as to the comparative consequence between the two considerations.

My observations on this issue are as follows.

The difference between the consequences of either of the two proposed considerations is that:
a) If God considers itself located relative to MEST, then it becomes dependent on MEST to have location and loses its position of source and cause in the relationship.

b) If God considers MEST to be located relative to itself, then God retains its position as source and cause in its relationship to MEST and is not dependent on MEST to have location.
(Originally, I wrote the above in a past tense form, referring to what would happen "if" God "considered MEST . . . then God would . . . " but then decided it might communicate more easily if I stated the PT scenario.)

This, of course, is something that can be processed

RogerB

That's great Roger!

We are at a very high altitude where the air is quite thin. So, it is not surprising that there were no takers. Probably the question was not understood.

I don't think that ORIGIN has any location. ORIGIN is "absence of location." It is ZERO... nada. It is a reference from which all other locations are derived. So, if we consider "GOD" (not an identity) as the "ORIGIN" we are not giving it a location, we are designating GOD as "an absence of createdness." With respect to "GOD" everything else is then a "created location, consideration or whatever."

Any consideration is not part of this "origin" called GOD. It is simply part of the matrix of space. It is located somewhere around the "origin" called GOD. You seem to be making a consideration as part of GOD. A consideration is simply like a "location" relative to the "origin." Hope you understand what I am saying here.

Also, I don't like the word "processed" that you used. It implies going through some kind of computation. I like the sequence of LOOKING... NOTICING... RECOGNIZING. This sequence is also referred to as AS-ISING. There is no computation involved in this sequence.

It’s worth noting Vin’s superior attitude towards others on the board and his put down of them in his reply: “We are at a very high altitude where the air is quite thin. So, it is not surprising that there were no takers. Probably the question was not understood.”

On 8th May 2009, 05:01 PM in post #50, Oh God! I replied with a different, honoring view of our ESMBers.

RogerB; said:
Originally Posted by Vinaire
That's great Roger!

We are at a very high altitude where the air is quite thin. So, it is not surprising that there were no takers. Probably the question was not understood..
‘Tis possible, but I’d like to think that we do have some brilliance among the board members, and that it appeared you had answered the question with the post that followed mine; and then, the continuance of your elucidation was actually so riveting, and rapid, that folks hung off, enthralled at what they were being presented with. I know I was. It is a brilliant exposition. In fact, on the subject of its branch of mathematics that it exposes, it’s a masterpiece. I’ve saved it for the education of others and for use by Virginia who does tutoring.

You wrote:
Quote:
I don't think that ORIGIN has any location. ORIGIN is "absence of location." It is ZERO... nada. It is a reference from which all other locations are derived. So, if we consider "GOD" (not an identity) as the "ORIGIN" we are not giving it a location, we are designating GOD as "an absence of createdness." With respect to "GOD" everything else is then a "created location, consideration or whatever."
Ahh, now we have something upon which to exchange wisdom. Before I render my views on this paragraph, there is something I would like to express. Here, you and I use some different nomenclature and terminology. Which, of course, is proper and logical: we have different backgrounds. Also, some of what we are discussing is being viewed from different levels or points in the sequence of developed existence; or the other way it can be put, is that we can also be discussing actual different stages or points along the chain of developed existence. Note the distinction here between the act of viewing and the that which is being viewed.

These variables or different items we need to realize can trip up any attempt to come to an enlightened accord if we fail to recognize that we often can, unwittingly, be referring to different things or items within a discussion such as this of a vast arena.

So let me take up individual pieces of this last cited paragraph which, by the way I am in complete accord with, but which I would express in non-mathematical terms.

. . . . . snipped as this was a long discourse.

And so the dialogue between us, often jocular but always respectful, continued.

Eventually there was a change. As noted earlier on other threads, Vin insisted on doing his thing of “meditating” on various aspects of Hubbard’s materials including the OT levels . . . this against the advice of other smart folks on this board. Vin noticeably changed.

And then, this following point is what Vin misrepresents with his falsehoods to which I am responding. Simply put it is a continuance of his invective and falsification of the facts, as old-timers on the board are aware for a number have called him on it.

In February 2010, on the “How Dangerous is New OTVII (Solo NOTs)” thread the following occurred.

Vin was sounding off on his views and using the word “ego.”

On 2nd February 2010, 09:54 PM post #85 page9 of the thread Nexus100 asked the following question:
What is ego?

Vin did not answer Nexus’s question but retorted with an avoidance:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinaire
Yes, what is an ego?

On 2nd February 2010, 11:28 PM post #88 Nexus responded:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinaire
Yes, what is an ego?

.
You're using the term. Vot you tink?

This retort back and forth between Vin and Nexus continued for a while, with Nexus getting very specific with his question when others also chimed in, as below quoted in my post when I entered the chat on 3rd February 2010, 02:03 PM #95 :

Quote:
Originally Posted by nexus100
That's a way to look at it. But what IS ego? What does it consist of?
Good question, the answering of which by the way I note is "long coming" :) . . . . asking the Buddhist think types this question is rather like asking scientists, "What is energy, as in of what is this stuff, energy, composed of, what does it consist of?"

If you want blank stares and mumblings of inexactitude and opinion, try it! :roflmao:

RogerB

It is to be noted here that Vin is not the only one that had not answered Nexus’s question when I pitched in. Also note I am not actually referring to him, and simply putting the point these kinds of inability to address and answer questions are endemic in science as well.

For those who care to, go back to the actual page where this occurred and verify the facts: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=16109&page=10

It is here you’ll see the invective from Vin begin that has continued to this day. As this, for example in post #117 of the thread:

RogerB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinaire
Why do people get so upset about another person not answering their question?

I am looking for answers like anyone else. I am not the source of someone else's knowledge. Each person is the source of their own knowledge.

But I am the source of my own knowledge and I am documenting it the best way I can. Others are wecome to borrow from it, or reject is as they please.

I just don't understand this accusation, "You are not answering my question." For God's sake what is preventing you from looking?

If you find "being prevented from looking" as an unwanted condition, they you may call me for an Idenics session. The sessions I give are free.

.
It's not my question, Vin, it is Nexus's . . . I simply concurred it is a good question for you to answer . . . . as I said, I have the answer to it, as does Panda.

All I see here is you continuing to avoid the looking you tout as the thing you do . . . . you keep throwing shit back instead of doing the looking and answering you say you are so proud of.

And as to my reference to Alan . . . he is no authority to me . . . I simply cited his statement as an accurate observation by one who did have the ability of accurate observation. But you failed to benefit from his counsel also.

You say you "look" . . . but I don't see it being done. I do see avoidance of looking at what needs be answered.

R

For those interested to verify the facts in the above thread, you’ll see I never asked Vin any question, and nor did I protest not getting any answer. You’ll see I simply only continued to try and get Vin to knock off the invective and false accusations.

Vin has been called out on this by others than me, with one actually listing Vin’s actions as being those of an “Anti-Social Personality.” But it seems I have earned a special place in his heart for his invective and falsehoods . . . and all because I was unfortunate enough to be a part of his colliding with a question that embarrassed him by not being able to answer it.

Wrong target Vin. I am not the source of your upset . . . . your case is.

Rog
 
But it seems I have earned a special place in his heart for his invective and falsehoods . . . and all because I was unfortunate enough to be a part of his colliding with a question that embarrassed him by not being able to answer it.

Wrong target Vin. I am not the source of your upset . . . . your case is.

Rog

I suspect it may also have something to do with Vin's promotion of his own preferred method of spiritual reflection & progression translating as some sort of a need to "attack the opposition" as his "ego" may perceive it. :coolwink:


Mark A. Baker :)
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Adios Apollo, Part 3

Missions were fired off to locate a suitable “Flag Land Base” and the Apollo was sailed to Freeport, The Bahamas the “Staging Area” for the move to land. A Management Team was sent to NYC to run the Orgs and the remainder of the Crew packed up the Ship, loading the tons and tons of paper files, documents and bric-a-brac into containers set up dockside to the Apollo. El Ron, the Family and entourage, the tech delivery unit, FCCI’s and outer Org students went to Daytona Beach, Florida and the rest, as they say, is History and has been well documented on the Net by others.

From the time we sailed to Freeport to the when we arrived in Clearwater I was involved in a number of El Ron Missions, which I will not detail here at this time, that gave me insight into what was going on here and there throughout the entire “evolution”—it also loaded my Ethics Files with a number of El Ron personal VVWD’s and Very Highly Commended’s that saved my skin a few times over the next few years.

For a time it looked like the FLB would be a resort property near Savannah, Georgia but, in the end, Clearwater wound up being the place and the whole “United Churches” front was concocted. Anyone with half a brain knew that it was going to blow up eventually but the idea was to get in, set up and when the inevitable happened it would be already too late for the “SP’s” to try and stop us.

The Crew was euphoric with the move to land. Better food, better berthing (albeit stark by most standards, unless compared to the Apollo), better quality of life. There was a pervading “hope” that we were on our way to having a more “normal”, decent life…that we had “dug the ditches” and fought our way out of the trenches. In short, we had “arrived” and, someday, we would be a group of “substance”, not wealthy individually but comfortable, classy and mutually self respecting….we would have families, we would build a “New Civilization”, we would not spend the rest of our lives at war and in battle conditions, we would move up the bridge, we would “get it right this time”. All this would not come to pass.

The Crew did not know that “Snow White” was, at that very moment, creating the conditions for Acid Rain and, more importantly, that El Ron was “losing it” and the CMO was in the process of becoming "It”. Some of us in the “inner circle” saw “It” coming but, as always, we clung to the thought that “in the end, everything would turn out alright”. How could it not? We had “The Tech” and our only problem was that we were “building a world with broken straws”. We just had to keep going as “the point that you are about give up is the point that you are about to win”.

As far as I am concerned, the move to land was for 3 primary reasons.

1. El Ron’s Security, Health
2. Money
3. El Ron wanted to “stick it in Hollywood’s ear” and Money

Number 1 was the big driver for Mary Sue. The hospitalization in Curacao left Hisself in a very vulnerable position. Poor medical care, non Scn Doctors, stuck in a fixed position that could not be completely controlled by Hisself.

Number 2 was El Ron’s big driver. People would pay big bucks for “Flag Only” and “Flag Quality” services, and most of it would go to SO Reserves and LRH Personal Accounts as Royalties and Fees.

Number 3 was driven by the money. El Ron’s “State of Mind” was, more and more, “I am the greatest, most brilliant Writer, Producer, Director in the Universe” and the money allowed Hisself to build his “Dream Castle” and move into it. And, the CMO were the enablers and willing pawns for Hisself’s delusion driven gambit.

When I was growing up I shared a bedroom with my older brother who was going to college. He had a job and when he got home at night he would throw the change in his pocket into a wooden box on his dresser. It was a large box and over time there was a substantial pile of change in the box. There were some “rich kids” I went to school with that I wanted to impress. I did not have nice cloths…mostly hand-me-downs from my brothers and cousins. I started to pilfer the change from my brother’s change box and spend it after school with these kids…buying hamburgers and malts for them, stuff like that. I was suddenly their big “buddy” and I became “drunk” with being cool…I also became sick at heart and tortured at night. I came to a point where I detested myself so much I stopped stealing my brother’s money, replaced what I thought was what I had spent (from doing yard work for neighbors) and never stole again. I never confessed what I had done until years later…my brother laughed and said he was glad that he was the vehicle for my having looked into my own heart and stopped flinching. He passed away a few years ago, surrounded by his family and friends…he was a beautiful man that led a loving, giving and caring life.

I guess that’s what saddens me most about this era, Adios Apollo, about my time with El Ron. It was an opportunity…we, the Crew, were so willing, ready, able and El Ron did as Hisself always did…flinched. El Ron spent the rest of Hisself’s life pilfering from the change box to be cool in front of the other kids.

Face:)
 
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Terril park

Sponsor
Speaking of overtones...I LOVE harmony and harmonics! :coolwink: Anybody else know about sacred harp music or Tuval throat singing? :D

Here are the Cactus Cuties!!! Hope everyone enjoyed Independence day as much as I did! Go, free beings! :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKCVS57j284

Love those Cactus Cuties. Its a very beautiful song. Or can be
made so :) Its up there with my favorite folk anthems from japan to
well, UK.

Some familiarity with throat singing. My least favorite Mongolian
folk singing. Saw Yat Kha live in london a few years back. Or maybe
some other Mongolian group.

Here you go with a very beautiful singer. And thanks for directing me to this u-tube cornocupia I have yet to investigate :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXqX891cuXo
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Read Post 3425 on page 343 of this thread!

I'm still not here, but i wanted to start a conversation about the 4th of July party. by tomorrow, I should have some time.

lakey, did you say "hi" to Don keeler. who did you mingle with?

I met a bunch of new people. I talked to a guy named Helmut, who has just left and brought dozens of people with him. I managed to say that LRH was a real asshole before I knew any of Helmut's story. Can you say foot in mouth?


There were people who had been butchered at Flag who I connected with.

There was a terrific singer.

I made some terrific connections/
.

talking to John R., who used to be a power auditor at ASHO in the 60s and suped the bc and Vll course was good. I hadn't seen him since early 70s.

I've been to that party off and on for years. That one two days ago was the best so far.

Carmelo, I am glad you had a good time. I already posted my report immediately on arriving home, see Page 343, post 3425 on this thread.

Basically, I was sitting with Purple Haze and Blue Spirit's wife most of the time. I saw an old buddy of mine, Buck Haegele, who I met at Aerojet General in 1971. We were the only 2 Scientologists there and had lunch together almost everyday. He and I were also at ASHO together in 1976 &77.

I know Songbird who sang the Star Spanled Banner and God Bless America and talked with her a bit, talked with Blue Spirit who was talking to Mary WIlliams, Blue introduced me to her and I talked to her for a half hour. I met Helmut and talked to him and also a Tym Mott-Smith who is a music teacher and is also into math and computers. Also I reunited with Valerie Stansfield. I went with my family to her for 3 years in the early 80's to get nutritional counseling.

Don Keeler? He came over and hugged Purple Haze, sitting right next to me and he didn't recognize me. I felt very uneasy. I put in print in several places that I believed he was an SP. Actually, I felt antsy when he was in my space although I have been assured that he has never read ESMB. I thought it over quite a bit and just thought it better to not approach him. I have retracted the SP accusations and wish him only good tidings from here on out but I have no interest in conversing with him. i could if I wanted to but I have nothing particular to say to him.

The most exciting thing that happened to me personally is that I made two videos, one upon arrival as most of us were asked to do and when the camera woman found out I had been in since 1970 and had been on the Apollo, she went and told Diana CLass 8 and Diana insisted on making a separate video with her interviewing me about my Apollo experience. She really wanted anecdotes with LRH and the Hubbard family but I had very little to offer in that regard but did very well in the other aspects of the interview. I refered her to Purple Haze for those LRH type of stories and I think they made a video together as well. I was told, the videos would be available for viewing in about a week on some freezone websites and also will be put up on youtube.
Lakey
 
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lkwdblds

Crusader
On the dispute between Roger and Vin

When brilliant people who are also top opinion leaders have a quarrel going, one thing which immediately comes to mind for me is that it is not necessarty to worry about these men getting their feelings hurt or being hurt in any way. There is no need for we observers to have compassion for them in the sense of being sympathetic to them. These two men can both handle themselves superlatively as far as defending their own positions and speaking for themselves.

As Roger delved into the roots of their dispute and showed a topic which they discussed amicably shortly before their disagreement started, I believe we were exposed to some very high level concepts in the upper realms of human understanding. Roger's initial remarks and Vin's reply were both extremely enlightening. Those were made before I began participating on the Oh!God! thread and I never saw that material before.

As an aside, off the main topic, I can not believe that this dispute started with Nexus asking Vin for a definition for the word "ego". Relations were cordial and producing a remarkable series of posts up to that point, when Nexus's insistance on this question being answered by Vin caused a difference of opinion between Roger and Vin to occur as to whether the question needed to be answered by Vin.

There was also a difference of opinioin as to whether the material being addressed on the thread was or was not too lofty for very many readers of the thread to participate with intelligent comments.

At least we now know how the bad feelings began and I thank Roger for going to all that trouble he took in chronicling the origins of the dispute.
Lakey
 
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Blue Spirit

Silver Meritorious Patron
Thank You

to a person, just leaving the Co$, it is a really big reality break to even hear disparaging things about LRH.

in order to be a sucker for so long inside the Co$, there has to be a lot of faith in Ron.

The party just felt so free, I didn't edit my comments based on who I was talking with.

I told Blue Spirit to go fuck himself three or four times. I couldn't handle the petty morality box that he wanted to impose on my associate.

My associate was unaffected by Blue Spirit's comments. He has been to Aida and Dave's many times, and knows the lay of the land. He enjoyed everyone's hospitality, and the sharing of their food. He played and was entertained by the canine member of the household for the nearly 12 hours that we were there...


Thank you very much for your communication.
You are 100% correct, and I thank you for sharing your viewpoint.

Love, B.S.

P.S.- For those not aware, C.O.'s "associate" is a very self-determined Pug breed of dog, a real cool being.
 
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