The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[This is NOT OK !!!!]

I'm not a cynic, but...

Dear John,

def. Cynic: a person who believes that only selfishness motivates human actions and who disbelieves in or minimizes selfless acts or disinterested points of view.

a) You've now threatened to suspend sharing your "enlightenment" (chronicles) on ESMB because some portion of us don't appear to be "ready" to recieve it.

b) You switched threads, perhaps to avoid the heat. One result of that "switch" is you're not answering our questions and not responding to our criticisms. To wit, what’s your response to my post # 261 on the earlier thread: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=455928#post455928

def. Criticism: the act of passing judgment as to the merits of anything.

Yes, I made some criticisms of your chronicle on the other thread. But, as Carmelo Orchards and Paul have so kindly explained to you here, it's the nature of the site (and quite frankly, in my opinion, it's the way real life works outside Scientology).

I've been spending a couple months now trying to figure out WHAT THE FUCK JUST HAPPENED for the last 32 years of my life! So my interest level in receiving an OT night briefing from you in the form of a chronicle is EXTREMELY low. It doesn’t matter to me that you used to receive $10.00 a head for the briefing and you believe you’re performing a service to humanity by now posting the chronicle for free.

It’s a two-way street. I spent the bulk of my life learning the “True Story of Scientology” and it’s obvious that you have too.

Will you now spend a couple of hours learning “the rest of the story”?

Regards,

This Is Not OK!!!

P.S. As my name implies, I say and do a lot that’s NOT OK!!!

 

[Blue Spirit]

I Feel Your Love...........

I tend to think of it as kindergarten, actually. We learn not to hit or bite, to be nice to others, to listen, to share and play together nicely, etc.

Really, given what you went through, you are doing just great! I'm so proud of you for not giving up, and caving in. I think that other person who "stamped" (very apt image!) wanted to keep you down and dependent on him. Didn't work, did it?

Yes, you really are on your way now because you are helping others! That is a sure sign to me, of healing, recovery and well being!

and yes I did go through hell and made it out, although more to go of the road.

Thank you for, if I do say so myself, a well-deserved ack.

 

[Blue Spirit]

I Was There

I can't wait to hear about his encounter with the alien ET who nick named him Strawberry.

I was there and it was a very moving experience, with one being truly caring about another.

I'll let Johnny tell the story, of course.

 

[Blue Spirit]

YES

There are actually not all that many ex-scientologists here. Most never were scientologists in the first place.

They are merely ex-CofSists, which is a very different thing to an ex-scientologist.

Yes, and that is a difference that needs to be seen and acknowledged too.

 

[Blue Spirit]

Hubbard as an OT

Last I heard, he had trouble running a second rate ship in the Mediterranean and seeing to it that courses which people were posted to had Hat Packs as per his own policy and he was misinformed and believed some obscure Director of Disbursements had embezzled funds from CCLA treasury just a few months earlier when the guy was one of the most unscrupulously honest peoople who ever served on staff at CCLA.. If he can be so wrong about common every day happenings right under his nose in his own jurisdiction, how can he possibly know what has been going on in an entire Universe going back 4 quadrillion years or so. Pardon me but I am just asking?
Lakey

Hubbard is operating as an OT now, but certainly is out-ranked in OT ability
by a number of other beings that I know about, and did know about in and out of Scientology.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Dear John,

Dear John,

def. Cynic: a person who believes that only selfishness motivates human actions and who disbelieves in or minimizes selfless acts or disinterested points of view.

a) You've now threatened to suspend sharing your "enlightenment" (chronicles) on ESMB because some portion of us don't appear to be "ready" to recieve it.

b) You switched threads, perhaps to avoid the heat. One result of that "switch" is you're not answering our questions and not responding to our criticisms. To wit, what’s your response to my post # 261 on the earlier thread: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=455928#post455928

def. Criticism: the act of passing judgment as to the merits of anything.

Yes, I made some criticisms of your chronicle on the other thread. But, as Carmelo Orchards and Paul have so kindly explained to you here, it's the nature of the site (and quite frankly, in my opinion, it's the way real life works outside Scientology).

I've been spending a couple months now trying to figure out WHAT THE FUCK JUST HAPPENED for the last 32 years of my life! So my interest level in receiving an OT night briefing from you in the form of a chronicle is EXTREMELY low. It doesn’t matter to me that you used to receive $10.00 a head for the briefing and you believe you’re performing a service to humanity by now posting the chronicle for free.

It’s a two-way street. I spent the bulk of my life learning the “True Story of Scientology” and it’s obvious that you have too.

Will you now spend a couple of hours learning “the rest of the story”?

Regards,

This Is Not OK!!!

P.S. As my name implies, I say and do a lot that’s NOT OK!!!

That ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ John, this is a real reply to you personally from a real person. If you are even a tenth of the auditor that you say you are (and I do know that you are), you will actually respond to this. AND NOT as a sentence paragraph as a part of a long post of other two sentence replies. The nature of communication mean treating each person with respect, not just lumping them in an in basket of "to handle".

John, this note is to you personally. It is not to This Is Not OK. How would you answer him if he was standing talking to you? He is actually repeating the auditing question. He is looking for some answers.

I don't know, but I'd say he should read some Ayn Rand (starting with the "Virtue of Selfishness")

 

[lkwdblds]

Well, that's why I recommended a 2nd conference call

I would disagree.

On your "Thumbnail Sketch of LRH" thread, I just got bashed by AnonKat and AnonKat is a friend.

There is nothing wrong with being bashed. If every post one ever makes is going to be applauded, how boring would that be. Life is a game. Without an occasional bash, it just isn't very interesting.

A bash every now and again is good for the soul.

ESMB is not brain surgery. It is connecting with your fellows. It is not trying to sell ideas counter to the prevailing posters UNLESS a fight is what you are seeking. This is simple ARC U stuff. Find out what is needed and wanted before you open your mouth.

I made the same comment on that thread myself, that life would be boring if everyone agreed with you. In Johnny's case, he was getting about 80 to 85% bashers. Part of the problem in my humble opinion, is that he has been out of the Scientology loop for 25 years and to him, he figured as if it was still 1983 or 84 and people loved to hear story's about OT phenomena. A 33% rate of being bashed, perhaps a 50% rate, maybe he could have taken in stride but a rate of over 80%? He had not been set up for that. That is just my take on it, that's why I wanted to conference with you, Bule Spirit, and Johnny himself to figure out the best way to procede. Everybody whom I have read so far feels he should continue posting on this thread. How he should approach the main part of the board, I believe it is best the 4 of us to discuss. Of course, the final decision is Johnny's alone to make but we and any other board member can sure give him input in aiding him to make his decision.

I liked very much the fact that several detracters took the trouble to contact him and urged him to keep posting, "That's Not OKay" is one of them and should be acked. Down on Johnny's separate thread, there has been a huge support amongst detractors, urging him to continue posting there. Carmel and Emma, both not detractors, have chimed in and Helluva Hoax has also urged him to continue. You know the old tech about reach and withdraw. Johnny withdrew a bit and so many people have reached to him very strongly urging him to still keep posting and telling his story and his OT wins.

Johnny was getting tremendous TA down there on his own thread. Before order could go in, confusion had to blow off. Though it was looking pretty ugly down there, the TA was moving BIG TIME and progress was being made. As many have already pointed out to Johnny, the TA is moving, don't give up on the process!
Lakey

 

[Ted]

Hello Johnny Raff!

I have written this before to peeps other than yourself. The nature of the internet is that communication rolls forward, and some really good stuff gets electronically buried.

Here's my advice, buried many layers deep and now brought to the surface once again: Take it or leave it:

A person who comes to such a forum as this with the expectation of appreciation, communication, and understandings will often be disappointed.

Edit your messages so that there can be only one interpretation if at all possible. If a message can be read the wrong way, it likely will be read the wrong way by someone. That alone eliminates a lot of blowback that comes across as entheta and criticism.

After that, answer people's questions. Do the best you can to clarify each one. You won't be able to clarify them all because each being is coming from a different reality, education, indoctrination, and track of experience. Sometimes they just need to read more of what you have to say before asking questions so that they know where you are coming from.

You have let people know who you are. They have not necessarily let you know who they are. Do not engage critical, discourteous, anonymous posters. They only deserve your time and attention when carrying on with civil discourse or when they, too, have made themselves unanonymized.

Keep right on communicating. Say what you have to say. If you get a nice acknowledgment, a friendly reception, a word of appreciation, welcome it. That's your reward. Do not fall into the trap of expecting it, just keep right on communicating.

Lastly, "I was a big cheese in the church," still impresses some, but not all. I for one never appreciated the Class 8-12 brags. I, as a former class 6, am as good any any of them. I never put down lower classed auditors. Hubbard had a habit of positioning his people against each other. It is and was a destructive trap. It destroys potentially good, cooperative relationships.

How's that?

 

[Zinjifar]

Why so much 'bashing' of 'bashers'?

Zinj

 

[Ted]

Why so much 'bashing' of 'bashers'?

Zinj

Personally, I love a basher's first few responses as they let me know where I have failed to communicate. If the bashing continues after that, I suppose they have their responses on automatic, and that ain't worth spit.

And when bashing interrupts civil discourse, bashers deserve to be bashed.

As you can see, I am not the Dalai Lama or Christ.

 

[Zinjifar]

yeah, the continuum of 'Bashers => Whiners' isn't really a continuum; it's an omnipresent cycle with holographic tendencies.

Zinj

 

[RogerB]

Dear John,

def. Cynic: a person who believes that only selfishness motivates human actions and who disbelieves in or minimizes selfless acts or disinterested points of view.

a) You've now threatened to suspend sharing your "enlightenment" (chronicles) on ESMB because some portion of us don't appear to be "ready" to recieve it.

b) You switched threads, perhaps to avoid the heat. One result of that "switch" is you're not answering our questions and not responding to our criticisms. To wit, what’s your response to my post # 261 on the earlier thread: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=455928#post455928

def. Criticism: the act of passing judgment as to the merits of anything.

Yes, I made some criticisms of your chronicle on the other thread. But, as Carmelo Orchards and Paul have so kindly explained to you here, it's the nature of the site (and quite frankly, in my opinion, it's the way real life works outside Scientology).

I've been spending a couple months now trying to figure out WHAT THE FUCK JUST HAPPENED for the last 32 years of my life! So my interest level in receiving an OT night briefing from you in the form of a chronicle is EXTREMELY low. It doesn’t matter to me that you used to receive $10.00 a head for the briefing and you believe you’re performing a service to humanity by now posting the chronicle for free.

It’s a two-way street. I spent the bulk of my life learning the “True Story of Scientology” and it’s obvious that you have too.

Will you now spend a couple of hours learning “the rest of the story”?

Regards,

This Is Not OK!!!

P.S. As my name implies, I say and do a lot that’s NOT OK!!!

That ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ John, this is a real reply to you personally from a real person. If you are even a tenth of the auditor that you say you are (and I do know that you are), you will actually respond to this. AND NOT as a sentence paragraph as a part of a long post of other two sentence replies. The nature of communication mean treating each person with respect, not just lumping them in an in basket of "to handle".

John, this note is to you personally. It is not to This Is Not OK. How would you answer him if he was standing talking to you? He is actually repeating the auditing question. He is looking for some answers.

I don't know, but I'd say he should read some Ayn Rand (starting with the "Virtue of Selfishness")

I would say to both This is NOT OK!!! and to CarmelO, that John has had a hell of a lot of traffic on his lines and that to do a detailed address to each of the specific points raised in any complex rebuttal to anything Raffo wrote, does take some time

TINOK, I wouldn't just yet accuse Raffo of "switched threads, perhaps to avoid the heat. One result of that "switch" is you're not answering our questions and not responding to our criticisms."

A person can only handle so much traffic at one time. But it is equally true that he has the right to ignore all the criticism, and simply keep on presenting his idea of things just as it is your right, if you choose, to challenge cum criticise what he writes.

Me thinks we should be patient and allow him the time to show his colors (so to speak).

R

 

[Veda]

There are actually not all that many ex-scientologists here. Most never were scientologists in the first place.

They are merely ex-CofSists, which is a very different thing to an ex-scientologist.

Yes, and that is a difference that needs to be seen and acknowledged too.

Why so much 'bashing' of 'bashers'?

Zinj

I don't know, but it's interesting that Leon's attempt at nullifying Ex-Scientologists is identical to the attempt being made by one CofS troll (not on this thread), that "You're not an ex-Scientologist, since you weren't really a Scientologist in the first place." Kind 'a creepy.

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

I would say to both This is NOT OK!!! and to CarmelO, that John has had a hell of a lot of traffic on his lines and that to do a detailed address to each of the specific points raised in any complex rebuttal to anything Raffo wrote, does take some time

TINOK, I wouldn't just yet accuse Raffo of "switched threads, perhaps to avoid the heat. One result of that "switch" is you're not answering our questions and not responding to our criticisms."

A person can only handle so much traffic at one time. But it is equally true that he has the right to ignore all the criticism, and simply keep on presenting his idea of things just as it is your right, if you choose, to challenge cum criticise what he writes.

Me thinks we should be patient and allow him the time to show his colors (so to speak).

R

Check, Mate.

Face

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

“So, what did I buy into and why?", Part Two

I know it irritates Paul when folks post the same thing on two threads simultaneously. I’m kinda in a conundrum as I am responding to Fisherman and the LRH Thumbnail Sketch thread with stuff that was gonna be part of my “Readers Digest” treatments over here.



"Do unto others as you would have done onto you.” Jesus of Nazareth.

“The unexamined life is not worth living.” Socrates of Athens

To distill my personal What and Why re: Scn to compact narrative is not easy but here’s Part One of my go at it.

As I have written earlier on the Apollo ’73 thread, I grew up country, what was then lower middle class or upper lower class. My parents were Born Again, Charismatic, Fundamentalist Christians. They were also verbally, emotionally and physically violent.

From my earliest memory, I have felt “connected” to “something and others” which to this day I cannot describe in words and won’t indulge in here.

I went to a country school and the classes were small with usually 14 to 18 students in each grade K-8. Everything from wealthy Ag families and the Doctors kids to transients and kids from a Catholic orphanage were represented there. It was no secret who or what your family was.

By the time I entered the 3rd grade, I was on my way to “mirroring” the violence and hate that I was growing up around. I was combative, self righteous, angry, often times mean and very much self loathing. I felt trapped and helpless, hopeless.

All around us in this world are truly Angels and Saints, if you will. They are not the big personas, have no shrines in their memory and seek not the riches of the world…my 3rd grade teacher was/is one of them. It was her first year at the school and she was young, probably in her late 20’s-early 30’s. I was the worst, both academically and behaviorally, child in the class. We had reading groups that we worked in and I was the worst reader in the lowest group. During the first few weeks of class it was very clear to her what she had in little Face; a smart mouthed, defiant and troubled little boy that constantly tried to create argument, trouble and pick a fight.

About 3 or 4 weeks into the school year she took me aside and forever changed my life. She told me that I was one of the brightest of children she had seen…that I had no idea of the gifts I had been given…that as long as I was in her class she was not going to allow me to waste what I had been given.

“How do you know that?” I sobbed.

“The question, Mr. Face,” she replied, “is how will you know that?”

“I don’t know how?" I wailed.

“That’s why I am here. I am here to teach you how. I am going to teach you to read.”

“But I can’t read,” I screamed.

“No, Mr. Face…you will not read and that is why you can’t read. I will teach you how and you will read and you will learn,” she answered softly, firmly. “But, the decision is yours. You must, yourself, make this decision and make it now...it is up to you and no one else.”

Ms. “Angel” went on to explain that she had spoken with my parents and told them that she was going return me to 2nd grade unless they, and I, agreed that I would; 1. Stop disrupting the class; 2. Stop fighting; 3. Stay after school for 1 hour a day, 4 days a week for as long as she determined. She went on to tell me that my parents thought I should be sent back a grade to “teach me a lesson” but that it was up me whether or not that was going to happen. I must admit here that the big “driver” for me in taking up Ms. Angel on her offer was that I was defying my parents…I honestly think she knew that from the get go.

Over the next months, Ms. Angel tutored and by Christmas break, I was the best reader in the class and her top student. She taught me so much, not just the three “R”, but about dignity, self esteem…on and on…and, she taught me humility. Every Friday, the 5 levels of reading groups would take their reading book and join Ms. Angel at a table in the room. We would take turns reading out loud and then discuss what we had read. They were children’s books, but, the concept and joy of discussing amongst others what all had read was what she was teaching. Several months into our Lyceum together, Ms. “Angel announced to the class that I was now a member of the green group—the best readers in the class. I was elated, stood up and strutted to the table, receiving my “honor” with an “I’m so cool” gait and sassy “Look at me” grin on my face.
Once we were all seated, Ms. Angel sat down, sweetly smiled and looked me.

“Well, Mr. Face,” she said politely, “I can see that you are off to great start here in the Green Group.”

My heart pounded with pride, my head spun with the exhilaration of self adulation.

“Now,” she said, still ever so politely, “please go back to your desk and put your head down until the Green Group is finished.” Tears welled in my eyes and I looked at her, hurt beyond pain. “You seem to have forgotten why we are here, Mr. Face. You didn’t bring your book,” she finished.

As I sat there with my head down the old hates, loathing and angers consumed me. She had betrayed me. She had made fun of me. After some time, I smiled as the warmth and peace of her lesson washed over me—“Don’t Showboat”.

Over the next four years I read incessantly, at every opportunity… Biographies, Novels, History, Astronomy, Physics and then Encyclopedias, increasing from remedial to Adult. Often, while everyone else in the house was sleeping, I would read late into the night, under the covers, flashlight in hand. When I was in 7th grade, by the grace and providence of Ms. Angel’s gifts to me, one day in the library I found a four volume set of books titled, “The Worlds Great Thinkers” and in those books I found Plato’s Dialogue of Socrates, “Meno”.

I was…we all were…Meno’s slave!

I wept the day I read “Meno” the first time.

Up to and including this day while writing this, as a being, I weep unashamedly when I speak of Ms. Angel.

Face

 

[Infinite]

I was there and it was a very moving experience, with one being truly caring about another.

I'll let Johnny tell the story, of course.

Really? Well, shazbot!!

See, if what you say is true, then by the process of elimination and with the application of logic one would have to reach the singular conclusion that YOU are the alien ET? Hmmmm . . . unless, of course, there were more than two entities present and the third and subsequent ones didn't truly care?

You have piqued my interest. I await TMT's story with baited breath.

 

[Ted]

I know it irritates Paul when folks post the dame thing on two threads simultaneously. I’m kinda in a conundrum as I am responding to Fisherman and the LRH Thumbnail Sketch thread with stuff that was gonna be part of my “Readers Digest” treatments over here.



Do unto others as you would have done onto you.” Jesus of Nazareth.

“The unexamined life is not worth living.” Socrates of Athens

To distill my personal What and Why re: Scn to compact narrative is not easy but here’s Part One of my go at it.

As I have written earlier on the Apollo ’73 thread, I grew up country, what was then lower middle class or upper lower class. My parents were Born Again, Charismatic, Fundamentalist Christians. They were also verbally, emotionally and physically violent.

From my earliest memory, I have felt “connected” to “something and others” which to this day I cannot describe in words and won’t indulge in here.

I went to a country school and the classes were small with usually 14 to 18 students in each grade K-8. Everything from wealthy Ag families and the Doctors kids to transients and kids from a Catholic orphanage were represented there. It was no secret who or what your family was.

By the time I entered the 3rd grade, I was on my way to “mirroring” the violence and hate that I was growing up around. I was combative, self righteous, angry, often times mean and very much self loathing. I felt trapped and helpless, hopeless.

All around us in this world are truly Angels and Saints, if you will. They are not the big personas, have no shrines in their memory and seek not the riches of the world…my 3rd grade teacher was/is one of them. It was here first year at the school and she was young, probably in her late 20’s-early 30’s. I was the worst, both academically and behaviorally, child in the class. We had reading groups that we worked in and I was the worst reader in the lowest group. During the first few weeks of class it was very clear to her what she had in little Face; a smart mouthed, defiant and troubled little boy that constantly tried to create argument, trouble and pick a fight.

About 3 or 4 weeks into the school year she took me aside and forever changed my life. She told me that I was one of the brightest of children she had seen…that I had no idea of the gifts I had been given…that as long as I was in her class she was not going to allow me to waste what I had been given.

“How do you know that?” I sobbed.

“The question, Mr. Face,” she replied, “is how will you know that?”

“I don’t know how?" I wailed.

“That’s why I am here. I am here to teach you how. I am going to teach you to read.”

“But I can’t read,” I screamed.

“No, Mr. Face…you will not read and that is why you can’t read. I will teach you how and you will read and you will learn,” she answered softly, firmly. “But, the decision is yours. You must, yourself, make this decision and make it now...it is up to you and no one else.”

Ms. “Angel” went on to explain that she had spoken with my parents and told them that she was going return me to 2nd grade unless they, and I, agreed that I would; 1. Stop disrupting the class; 2. Stop fighting; 3. Stay after school for 1 hour a day, 4 days a week for as long as she determined. She went on to tell me that my parents thought I should be sent back a grade to “teach me a lesson” but that it was up me whether or not that was going to happen. I must admit here that the big “driver” for me in taking up Ms. Angel on her offer was that I was defying my parents…I honestly think she knew that from the get go.

Over the next months, Ms. Angel tutored and by Christmas break, I was the best reader in the class and her top student. She taught me so much, not just the three “R”, but about dignity, self esteem…on and on…and, she taught me humility. Every Friday, the 5 levels of reading groups would take their reading book and join Ms. Angel at a table in the room. We would take turns reading out loud and then discuss what we had read. They were children’s books, but, the concept and joy of discussing amongst others what all had read was what she was teaching. Several months into our Lyceum together, Ms. “Angel announced to the class that I was now a member of the green group—the best readers in the class. I was elated, stood up and strutted to the table, receiving my “honor” with an “I’m so cool” gait and sassy “Look at me” grin on my face.
Once we were all seated, Ms. Angel sat down, sweetly smiled and looked me.

“Well, Mr. Face,” she said politely, “I can see that you are off to great start here in the Green Group.”

My heart pounded with pride, my head spun with the exhilaration of self adulation.

“Now,” she said, still ever so politely, “please go back to your desk and put your head down until the Green Group is finished.” Tears welled in my eyes and I looked at her, hurt beyond pain. “You seem to have forgotten why we are here, Mr. Face. You didn’t bring your book,” she finished.

As I sat there with my head down the old hates, loathing and angers consumed me. She had betrayed me. She had made fun of me. After some time, I smiled as the warmth and peace of her lesson washed over me—“Don’t Showboat”.

Over the next four years I read incessantly, at every opportunity… Biographies, Novels, History, Astronomy, Physics and then Encyclopedias, increasing from remedial to Adult. Often, while everyone else in the house was sleeping, I would read late into the night, under the covers, flashlight in hand. When I was in 7th grade, by the grace and providence of Ms. Angel’s gifts to me, one day in the library I found a four volume set of books titled, “The Worlds Great Thinkers” and in those books I found Plato’s Dialogue of Socrates, “Meno”.

I was…we all were…Meno’s slave!

I wept the day I read “Meno” the first time.

Up to and including this day while writing this, as a being, I weep unashamedly when I speak of Ms. Angel.

Face

Good, good story!

 

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Thank you, Face - and a thought...

...

...snip...

Up to and including this day, as a being, I weep unashamedly when I speak of Ms. Angel.

Face

I know exactly what you mean.

Earlier today I posted, quoting a snippet of advice, wisdom - or maybe just conversation from a man who was my nextdoor neighbor at the time - and, rather as an afterthought, I included his real name, the place and the year.

I suppose this was by way of acknowledgement, and long overdue, as he died shortly thereafter rather unexpectedly. It feels to me like he got that acknowledgement and appreciated it.

It occured to me that your "Ms. Angel" might possibly like to be mentioned by name, if you have not already done that at some other time and place.

Looking forward to the next chapter,

EP

 

[Blue Spirit]

A Good Formula

Personally, I love a basher's first few responses as they let me know where I have failed to communicate. If the bashing continues after that, I suppose they have their responses on automatic, and that ain't worth spit.

And when bashing interrupts civil discourse, bashers deserve to be bashed.

As you can see, I am not the Dalai Lama or Christ.

Sounds like a workable formula, Ted.

 

[The Magic Thetan]

OT Levels

I, too, would love to see a write up by Dart.

I am aware of 3 OTVIII versions - the original that was released by LRH, the current CoS "new OT VIII". and a version that somehow exists in the FZ as the "real" OTVIII....

Does anyone have more info?

I have not seen any of them - but have good friends that have done the various versions...

Marina

QUOTE=SweetnessandLight;455937]Oooh, Dart! If you have not yet written up this part of your story, please do so and share it with us here? Pretty please? Or, if you have already done so, please point us to it. Thank you!

Just to make sure that I understand you clearly, you are referring to the Hubbard handwritten details of "The Final Rundown", which were never released and were destroyed, as the concepts being "well covered by Alan in his book, 'God's in Disguise', and you were not referring to the earlier posting by Roger of Alan's "The Evolution of a Power Technology".

No need to comment if I am correct, but please correct me if I am wrong. Thank you!

[/QUOTE]

The OT research Ron had me do was not associated with any Levels. They were OT exercises, such as using the body of another to perceive. You would have the person spot someone in Paris France for instance. Then you would ask them to see what that person was seeing, hear what they were hearing, feel what they were feeling etc. For what ever reason, it seemed like I could get everyone to do that. It was all kept light, never serious. It was always done with a Spirit of Play. That was not something Ron told me to do. It just was part of my "Disney Character" nature.

It appeared that Ron kept shuffling the OT Levels around in terms of what was on what Level.

:confused2: In 1967 after completing the Briefing course, I did three versions of OT-1 in the church, and later did a couple of OT drills from Ron that were similar to the version of OT-1 where you Mocked up the clearing materials and then ran them out on a conscious self determined basis. You basically, put the stuff there, and then took it away. This was very different from the objective process version of OT-1. In my experience he kept shuffling these things around, in an effort to determine what sequence would work best. As far as I know, the sequence was never set in stone, and from my viewpoint, it should not be set in stone. It is a matter of what works for the unique individual in front of you.

The Creation of Human Ability, which I ran on a PC with astounding results, goes forth if the person simply complies with the command to "Be three feet back of your head."

If they can do that, off they go to all sorts of wonderful OT experiences.

If they cannot, or do not comply with that command, off they go into route 2 that starts with a lot of objectives designed to stabilize then in present time.

That to me, was a saner way to go about things. However, as you and others so astutely observed, it either works, or it doesn't work, for the person sitting across for you.

:wink2:Hope this was of some value, love john