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afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
On Sunday nights, because we're Mormon (joke), we have family barbeque.

Tonight, because of the ESMB thread "another newbie," where a young woman (they're all young when you're me) with a daughter around 10 has become disaffected with the Co$, but her ex hubby is panter (my wife's term for the Pavlovian characteristics of the true believers), I observed with fresh eyes what goes on at our dinner table.

Tonight we had a small group: my wife, myself, Randy (our son), Tami - his wife (our daughter emotionally, if not biologically), and their kids, Nic (12) and Nat (10) and our son, Quincy (of the four legged variety).

My wife runs a property management company and is the founder and head of the board of directors of a K -12 private school that is 40 years old. I'm a schmo. Son randy is a high school grad making big bucks for being an alpha geek at ebay. Tami is a soccer mom, volunteer at school, not stupid. None of the adults or are dog are shrinking violets. You couldn't overwhelm any of us with a Mack truck.

The two kids 7th grade - Nic and 5th grade - Nat fit right in AS EQUALS.

Nic tells us of his day. He went shooting all day, out the door at 7 AM, back around 4. The range he went to with his friend, is 200 yards. Most ranges near here are only 100. He had a good day doing something he likes. Let's face it, he wouldn't like it, if he wasn't good at it. In our family, all the kids shoot. That's how I grew up. That's how our kids grew up. The point really is, Nic isn't a kid at the table. He is an equal contributor. he's also a good listener, joke teller, and good impressionist. In the winter he skis double black diamonds (expert runs) and is on the ski team. He has mastery in certain areas.

Nat (also Natasha or Tasha) is on dance teams with girls who are two or three years older. She is two years ahead of her age peers in ballet. We are talking Royal Academy exams (not a slouch group). She runs like a gazelle. she is beautiful, poised, confident, and quick witted. She does gymnastics competitively too. she is not overwhelmed or downsized in stature because of her age. She gets full respect from everyone. She is a master dancer and gymnast (for her age).

Both kids have travelled with and without their parents.

They text us about things. Not dorky texts, but cogent. They like us. I took Nic on his first cornice (skiing) when he was 6. Natasha, when she was 4, was skiing all day with her aunt and me in a heavy storm . The kids have backbones.

They both have a good sense of style.

They have too much going on to be joining anything like the Sea Org.

When raising kids, fostering mastery in areas is a very good thing.

I am going to post this on "another newbie" too.

Yes Carmelo, Yes!!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

I like to cook and some folks seem to think I’m pretty darn good at it.:coolwink:

I cook everything from Mexican to Italian to Cajun cuisine.

I like to cook for friends and on Sundays I always cook country home-style “comfort food”.

Yesterday was old fashioned meat loaf, garlic mashed potatoes with mushroom gravy, green bean casserole, sweet corn on the cob and a tossed garden salad with my signature vinaigrette.

Every Sunday while I’m cooking and sharing a meal and conversation with friends a feeling of thankfulness and contentment washes over me.

I’m so thankful for the friends I have, the comfortable home I live in, the nice kitchen to cook in with excellent utensils, the bounty of foods available to prepare and consume and the car I drive a short distance to purchase those foods for a nominal amount of money.

We are so Fortunate to Have the Blessings of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Our Own Happiness available to Us for Our Participation and Enjoyment.:yes:

Face:)
 
from Saturday's NY Times

The Roman Republic was spiritually strong enough during the times of the Punic Wars against Carthage, that it could lose a whole army and still recover and return to the fight. In 216 BC, at the Battle of Cannae, the Romans lost 70,000 dead and 10,000 captured, a massive military defeat. Yet they cam back from that, Roman citizens formed new armies, and they finally defeated Carthage.

The victory over Carthage, and subsequent victories over barbarian tribes, provided a significant contributor of the rot that collapsed their empire. The rich imported slaves to work their estates, displacing the individual Roman farmers. To maintain contentment, the Roman elites, in 140 BC started providing bread and circuses (welfare and free entertainment) to the dispossessed. It kept a lid on discontent, but the side effect was that an increasing percentage of the population had no incentive to fight for Rome. The slaves had no love for Rome. The Romans on the dole had no willingness to fight, no sense of duty instilled. It took a while for the increasing rot to take effect, but finally Rome was unable to maintain order within the empire, tribes of barbarians were roaming and looting at will, and the Romans were reduced to paying them tribute to appease them.

There are some parallels with today, with "bread and circuses" being replaced by the Welfare State, commercial elites being addicted to cheap labor provided by illegal immigrants who have little interest in becoming loyal Americans, and criminal gangs gaining more and more control over their territories.




September 11, 2010
We’re No. 1(1)!
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
I want to share a couple of articles I recently came across that, I believe, speak to the core of what ails America today but is too little discussed. The first was in Newsweek under the ironic headline “We’re No. 11!” The piece, by Michael Hirsh, went on to say: “Has the United States lost its oomph as a superpower? Even President Obama isn’t immune from the gloom. ‘Americans won’t settle for No. 2!’ Obama shouted at one political rally in early August. How about No. 11? That’s where the U.S.A. ranks in Newsweek’s list of the 100 best countries in the world, not even in the top 10.”

The second piece, which could have been called “Why We’re No. 11,” was by the Washington Post economics columnist Robert Samuelson. Why, he asked, have we spent so much money on school reform in America and have so little to show for it in terms of scalable solutions that produce better student test scores? Maybe, he answered, it is not just because of bad teachers, weak principals or selfish unions.

“The larger cause of failure is almost unmentionable: shrunken student motivation,” wrote Samuelson. “Students, after all, have to do the work. If they aren’t motivated, even capable teachers may fail. Motivation comes from many sources: curiosity and ambition; parental expectations; the desire to get into a ‘good’ college; inspiring or intimidating teachers; peer pressure. The unstated assumption of much school ‘reform’ is that if students aren’t motivated, it’s mainly the fault of schools and teachers.” Wrong, he said. “Motivation is weak because more students (of all races and economic classes, let it be added) don’t like school, don’t work hard and don’t do well. In a 2008 survey of public high school teachers, 21 percent judged student absenteeism a serious problem; 29 percent cited ‘student apathy.’ ”

There is a lot to Samuelson’s point — and it is a microcosm of a larger problem we have not faced honestly as we have dug out of this recession: We had a values breakdown — a national epidemic of get-rich-quickism and something-for-nothingism. Wall Street may have been dealing the dope, but our lawmakers encouraged it. And far too many of us were happy to buy the dot-com and subprime crack for quick prosperity highs.

Ask yourself: What made our Greatest Generation great? First, the problems they faced were huge, merciless and inescapable: the Depression, Nazism and Soviet Communism. Second, the Greatest Generation’s leaders were never afraid to ask Americans to sacrifice. Third, that generation was ready to sacrifice, and pull together, for the good of the country. And fourth, because they were ready to do hard things, they earned global leadership the only way you can, by saying: “Follow me.”

Contrast that with the Baby Boomer Generation. Our big problems are unfolding incrementally — the decline in U.S. education, competitiveness and infrastructure, as well as oil addiction and climate change. Our generation’s leaders never dare utter the word “sacrifice.” All solutions must be painless. Which drug would you like? A stimulus from Democrats or a tax cut from Republicans? A national energy policy? Too hard. For a decade we sent our best minds not to make computer chips in Silicon Valley but to make poker chips on Wall Street, while telling ourselves we could have the American dream — a home — without saving and investing, for nothing down and nothing to pay for two years. Our leadership message to the world (except for our brave soldiers): “After you.”

So much of today’s debate between the two parties, notes David Rothkopf, a Carnegie Endowment visiting scholar, “is about assigning blame rather than assuming responsibility. It’s a contest to see who can give away more at precisely the time they should be asking more of the American people.”

Rothkopf and I agreed that we would get excited about U.S. politics when our national debate is between Democrats and Republicans who start by acknowledging that we can’t cut deficits without both tax increases and spending cuts — and then debate which ones and when — who acknowledge that we can’t compete unless we demand more of our students — and then debate longer school days versus school years — who acknowledge that bad parents who don’t read to their kids and do indulge them with video games are as responsible for poor test scores as bad teachers — and debate what to do about that.

Who will tell the people? China and India have been catching up to America not only via cheap labor and currencies. They are catching us because they now have free markets like we do, education like we do, access to capital and technology like we do, but, most importantly, values like our Greatest Generation had. That is, a willingness to postpone gratification, invest for the future, work harder than the next guy and hold their kids to the highest expectations.

In a flat world where everyone has access to everything, values matter more than ever. Right now the Hindus and Confucians have more Protestant ethics than we do, and as long as that is the case we’ll be No. 11!
 
Yes Carmelo, Yes!!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

I like to cook and some folks seem to think I’m pretty darn good at it.:coolwink:

I cook everything from Mexican to Italian to Cajun cuisine.

I like to cook for friends and on Sundays I always cook country home-style “comfort food”.

Yesterday was old fashioned meat loaf, garlic mashed potatoes with mushroom gravy, green bean casserole, sweet corn on the cob and a tossed garden salad with my signature vinaigrette.

Every Sunday while I’m cooking and sharing a meal and conversation with friends a feeling of thankfulness and contentment washes over me.

I’m so thankful for the friends I have, the comfortable home I live in, the nice kitchen to cook in with excellent utensils, the bounty of foods available to prepare and consume and the car I drive a short distance to purchase those foods for a nominal amount of money.

We are so Fortunate to Have the Blessings of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Our Own Happiness available to Us for Our Participation and Enjoyment.:yes:

Face:)

Ay Men!
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
No access to clean uncontaminated water. No enclosed sewer systems. No public highways. No advanced weather warnings for public safety. Little routine public road maintenance, including de-icing, flood control, etc.. No access to public education. No public health measures, e.g. control of disease vectors, public sanitation, epidemic prevention, etc.. Limited crime prevention. Very minimal crime investigation. Widespread prevalence of vigilante "justice" involving hanging & torture of individuals based on general unpopularity, religious bias, and ethnic discrimination. No minimal standards for workplace health or safety. No minimal standards for food safety. No protection from exploitation economic cartels. ....

What strikes me as interesting is how many at present are thoughtlessly eager to bring back these "happy days of yore". :eyeroll:

Truth is the "glorious days of yesteryear" never were. Only fools ignorant of the reality of history believe otherwise.

If you want to test the heady air of "true freedom" for a bit go live in Somalia for six months. :whistling:


Mark A. Baker

MAB...Lakey's post was about values and viewpoint not toys and infrastructure. Even a dimwit like me could see that.:yes:



Face:)
 
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RogerB

Crusader
Purple and Lakey

God, I'm swamped!

Been away over the weekend . . . you guys have been busier than I can keep up with:D

Purple . . . on the thoughts of what to "name or call what you do" I'd be inclined to look at the current reality and views and language used by to folks that frequent to center you'd be working with . . .

So, how's this?

You recover or restore "spiritual life-force" for folks.

Spiritual life-force is a concept they understand. In other words, you help folks recover their spiritual life-force back under their true control . . . this in the context that any situation of ill-at-easeness, of dis-ease, is really misalgnment of their spiritual life-force.

Your only decision then would be to determine whether you are a "practitioner," a "facilitator" or ???

What you are doing Lakey is also "spiritual life-force realignment" :D (also with the giving a kick in the rear end to any misaligned spiritual life-force sources :duh:)

Rog

Rog
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Absolutely awesome job descriptions!!

God, I'm swamped!

Been away over the weekend . . . you guys have been busier than I can keep up with:D

Purple . . . on the thoughts of what to "name or call what you do" I'd be inclined to look at the current reality and views and language used by to folks that frequent to center you'd be working with . . .

So, how's this?

You recover or restore "spiritual life-force" for folks.

Spiritual life-force is a concept they understand. In other words, you help folks recover their spiritual life-force back under their true control . . . this in the context that any situation of ill-at-easeness, of dis-ease, is really misalgnment of their spiritual life-force.

Your only decision then would be to determine whether you are a "practitioner," a "facilitator" or ???

What you are doing Lakey is also "spiritual life-force realignment" :D (also with the giving a kick in the rear end to any misaligned spiritual life-force sources :duh:)

Rog

Rog

Absolutely brilliant Roger!!! I can't thank you enough, your job titles are absolutely perfect, thank you so much.

Purple Haze - Spiritual Life Force Recovery Facilitator or Spiritual Life Force Recovery Practitioner
Lakey - Spiritual Life Force Realignment Specialist or Practitioner. HOW BRILLIANT AND ACCURATE ARE THESE TITLES!!!

I am going to open charging $60 an hour, this is what Freezone Class VIII's charge for giving assists according to Purple. It is also what my local Korean Shiatsu Center charges for a massage. Though they give an excellent massage, even walking on my back while holding onto iron bars on the ceiling, I am doing much more than just a massage but am actually auditing them to erasure on whatever incident caused their body to go out of alignment. As I build up a clientel, I will raise to $75 an hour and hold there for a while and see how it goes. I will be exchanging in abundance even when compared to the best massage parlors. Of course, most massage clients leave a tip of $10 or $20 and I would accept any tips offered. Purple only reads here about once a week now so I already phoned her over her new job title.
Lakey
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Check out this Leon, Isaac Stern and the comedian Jack Benny!! Jack is much better than you might think. The music does not start until aournd 1:30 and doesn't really get going until around 2:45. The greatness of J.S. Bach comes through loud and clear and Jack shows that he can actually play serious violin. He is no Isaac Stern but check out this video!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKGSU_ByWyM

Now, what do you think? Okay, Wolfgang, not too many notes, just as many notes as are required, neither more nor less the same as you! J.S. Bach truly great and immortal!!
Lakey


Thanks for this, A very young Issac Stern. Lovely to hear.

Who was the other bloke? Have I met him before ever?
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
So you never heard of Jack Benny?

Thanks for this, A very young Issac Stern. Lovely to hear.

Who was the other bloke? Have I met him before ever?

Jack Benny was one of the top two or three entertainers in U.S. history. He was born in Peoria Illinois in 1894. He bacame a comedian on the radio in the late 1920's and in the ensuing 1930's, 1940's and 1950's was perhaps the number one comedian in the USA, appearing in a few movies and on radio with a one hour radio show in the 1940's that almost every home in America was tuned to. In the 1950's he did a radio show and then switched to TV. He still had a show in the early 1960's. He was about equal in stature to Bob Hope and Bing Crosby who were from his generation. Al Jolson was also born around the same time, just a tad earlier.

Jack featured several things which comprised his radio personality. First, he took on the image of a tightwad and hoarder of money, second he always said that his age was 39 no matter how old he got. When you saw him on this clip, he was 67 but still claimed to be 39, third he always claimed to be an expert violin player but on his show he played terrible like a child who was just learning and last but not least, his cast became his family. Every member of his cast became a star in his or her own right.

He featured his wife - Mary Livingstone who became a star, a black man, Eddie "Rochester" Anderson, as his aide de camp or personal secretary, called just "Rochester". He had Dennis Day, an Irish Tenor, Don Wilson, his announcer, who was very similar to Ed McMahon on the Johnny Carson Show. Mel Blanc, the voice of Bugs Bunny and Porky Pig and many other cartoon characters, and last but not least he had Phil Harris, who was a pretty big star in his own right as a band leader, even before he joined Jack. In the Disney movie Jungle Book, which was an animated cartoon, Phil was the voice of the ape. This movie was started when Walt Disney was still alive but Walt died before the movie was released in 1966.

Anyone who grew up with Jack Benny can never forget him, he was one of a kind, there will never be another anything quite like him. Carmelo and I first hit it off when we each found that the other guy was a Jack Benny fan.
Lakey
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
My dear Commander,

During these last few moments whilst the Fat Lady warms up in the Green Room, I thought I’d take this opportunity to be magnanimous with all y’all misogynists.

I started lurking on ESMB around a year or so ago and made my first post around 7 months ago. During my lurking days I read from beginning to end a number of threads, including the Apollo thread and this thread. I am a fan of TAJ, Nozeno, you and the others that have made this thread and, I must confess, I am a borderline, worshiper of Mystic. This thread is one of the threads that has the power that El Ron, The Maddest Hatter wanted us to believe Hisself had—the power to be “Real” and to “Heal” and for that, with heartfelt gratitude, I thank you.


I spent some a little time at FCDC “back in the days” and y’all are truly a good bunch of folks. Paraphrasing Mark Twain, D.C. was filled with the nicest and most gracious bunch of thieves and liars you’d ever want to meet from all over the U.S.

On the other hand…unfortunately for y’all…the Apollo was filled to her scuppers with the most irreverent and conniving bunch of pirates and cutthroats ever assembled from around the World.

Revenimus Ad Nauseous,

afaceinthecrowd, AKA “Face”
Flag Officer, Retired
 

RogerB

Crusader
Absolutely brilliant Roger!!! I can't thank you enough, your job titles are absolutely perfect, thank you so much.

Purple Haze - Spiritual Life Force Recovery Facilitator or Spiritual Life Force Recovery Practitioner
Lakey - Spiritual Life Force Realignment Specialist or Practitioner. HOW BRILLIANT AND ACCURATE ARE THESE TITLES!!!

I am going to open charging $60 an hour, this is what Freezone Class VIII's charge for giving assists according to Purple. It is also what my local Korean Shiatsu Center charges for a massage. Though they give an excellent massage, even walking on my back while holding onto iron bars on the ceiling, I am doing much more than just a massage but am actually auditing them to erasure on whatever incident caused their body to go out of alignment. As I build up a clientel, I will raise to $75 an hour and hold there for a while and see how it goes. I will be exchanging in abundance even when compared to the best massage parlors. Of course, most massage clients leave a tip of $10 or $20 and I would accept any tips offered. Purple only reads here about once a week now so I already phoned her over her new job title.
Lakey

:D It seems I do have my uses :D

Now I just need to dream up my next parlor trick. Some of the boys over on the "debate the objectives" thread didn't like my input . . . of course they are such experts on the subject :duh: Such "winners" at everything they touch :D

R
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
A Message for FCDC from Flag

Here is my recent post on the FCDC thread responding to Commander Birdsong's "Call To Arms". I am posting it here in accordance with "Command Intention".:D

My Dear Commander,

During these last few moments, whilst the Fat Lady warms up in the Green Room, I thought I’d take this opportunity to be magnanimous with all y’all misogynists.

I started lurking on ESMB around a year or so ago and made my first post around 7 months ago. During my lurking days I read from beginning to end a number of threads, including the Apollo thread and this thread. I am a fan of TAJ, Nozeno, you and the others that have made this thread and, I must confess, I am a borderline and unashamed worshiper of Mystic. This thread is one of the threads that has the power that El Ron, The Maddest Hatter 0f All wanted us to believe Hisself possessed—the power to be “Real” and to “Heal” and for that, with heartfelt gratitude, I thank you.


I spent some a little time at FCDC “back in the days” and y’all are truly a good bunch of folks. Paraphrasing Mark Twain, D.C. is filled with the nicest and most gracious bunch of thieves and liars you’d ever want to meet from all over the U.S.

On the other hand…unfortunately for y’all…the Apollo is filled to her scuppers with the most irreverent and conniving bunch of pirates and cutthroats ever assembled from around the World.

With Sails Unfurled,
Three Sheets to the Wind,
Revenimus Ad Nauseous,

afaceinthecrowd, AKA Face:)
Flag Officer, Retired
 
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Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Who will tell the people? China and India have been catching up to America not only via cheap labor and currencies. They are catching us because they now have free markets like we do, education like we do, access to capital and technology like we do, but, most importantly, values like our Greatest Generation had. That is, a willingness to postpone gratification, invest for the future, work harder than the next guy and hold their kids to the highest expectations.

One common factor of China, India, and the US generation that came out of the Great Depression: they've grown up in environments where failure to maximize your earning potential risks being subjected to poverty which current generations in the US could not imagine.

There are not many kids in the US (outside of maybe some Scientology Sea Org and staff kids), who have known true poverty and hunger.
 

FoTi

Crusader
God, I'm swamped!

Been away over the weekend . . . you guys have been busier than I can keep up with:D

Purple . . . on the thoughts of what to "name or call what you do" I'd be inclined to look at the current reality and views and language used by to folks that frequent to center you'd be working with . . .

So, how's this?

You recover or restore "spiritual life-force" for folks.

Spiritual life-force is a concept they understand. In other words, you help folks recover their spiritual life-force back under their true control . . . this in the context that any situation of ill-at-easeness, of dis-ease, is really misalgnment of their spiritual life-force.

Your only decision then would be to determine whether you are a "practitioner," a "facilitator" or ???

What you are doing Lakey is also "spiritual life-force realignment" :D (also with the giving a kick in the rear end to any misaligned spiritual life-force sources :duh:)

Rog

Rog

Nice post Roger. I need that. :thumbsup:
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
:D It seems I do have my uses :D

Now I just need to dream up my next parlor trick. Some of the boys over on the "debate the objectives" thread didn't like my input . . . of course they are such experts on the subject :duh: Such "winners" at everything they touch :D

R

The only problem with you, Rog, is them.:coolwink:

The only problem with MAB is us.:D

Face:)

PS: Just kiddin', MAB, you can reopen a scar better than anyone I've ever come across.:coolwink:
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Thanks for sending this.

Here is my recent post on the FCDC thread responding to Commander Birdsong's "Call To Arms". I am posting it here in accordance with "Command Intention".:D

My Dear Commander,

During these last few moments, whilst the Fat Lady warms up in the Green Room, I thought I’d take this opportunity to be magnanimous with all y’all misogynists.

I started lurking on ESMB around a year or so ago and made my first post around 7 months ago. During my lurking days I read from beginning to end a number of threads, including the Apollo thread and this thread. I am a fan of TAJ, Nozeno, you and the others that have made this thread and, I must confess, I am a borderline, worshiper of Mystic. This thread is one of the threads that has the power that El Ron, The Maddest Hatter wanted us to believe Hisself had—the power to be “Real” and to “Heal” and for that, with heartfelt gratitude, I thank you.


I spent some a little time at FCDC “back in the days” and y’all are truly a good bunch of folks. Paraphrasing Mark Twain, D.C. was filled with the nicest and most gracious bunch of thieves and liars you’d ever want to meet from all over the U.S.

On the other hand…unfortunately for y’all…the Apollo was filled to her scuppers with the most irreverent and conniving bunch of pirates and cutthroats ever assembled from around the World.

With Sails Unfurled,
Three Sheets to the Wind,
Revenimus Ad Nauseous,

afaceinthecrowd, AKA Face:)
Flag Officer, Retired


Well Face, thanks for sending your quoted post to FCDC as they transfer from being the Avis of ESMB to being Hertz of "We're #2 so we try harder" fame. They had a good long run at the top but they say all good things must come to an end. We will go out as top dog on ESMB however, because Emma is closing the thread down to new posting in December. We will forever be number 1 in their final count. With that and a $1.75 one can buy a cup of Starbucks coffee.
Lakey
 

FoTi

Crusader
Well Face, thanks for sending your quoted post to FCDC as they transfer from being the Avis of ESMB to being Hertz of "We're #2 so we try harder" fame. They had a good long run at the top but they say all good things must come to an end. We will go out as top dog on ESMB however, because Emma is closing the thread down to new posting in December. We will forever be number 1 in their final count. With that and a $1.75 one can buy a cup of Starbucks coffee.
Lakey

Oh NO! Emma is closing down this thread to new posting in December? :melodramatic:
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Well Face, thanks for sending your quoted post to FCDC as they transfer from being the Avis of ESMB to being Hertz of "We're #2 so we try harder" fame. They had a good long run at the top but they say all good things must come to an end. We will go out as top dog on ESMB however, because Emma is closing the thread down to new posting in December. We will forever be number 1 in their final count. With that and a $1.75 one can buy a cup of Starbucks coffee.
Lakey

Ah, say it ain't so, Joe!!!:no::grouch::confused2:

Gawd, kicked out of spaces yet again!!!:nervous::melodramatic::bigcry:

The South Shall Rise Again!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

We Are The Phoenix!!!:yes::yes::yes:

Face:)
 
...The mood and quality of life was much much much higher in Revolutionary day America than it is now. ...

That is what you want to believe, therefore you require no evidence to accept it as true. Your statement is in fact a nonsense.

What does it mean "the mood & quality of life" when applied to an entire nation or people? The people of that time had their own individual preconceptions, prejudices, personal problems & obsessions as have the people of any other time & culture. They were no more nor less admirable than those of 1930's germany or contemporary iran.

They were interested primarily in promoting their own survival as they saw it. Some few engaged in radical acts of political revolution. Many among them disparaged those acts. Most just got on with their own lives.

The same pattern plays out in every society in every age. Depending on circumstances historical outcomes vary.

You simply wish to project your ideals of a "better time" upon that of which you do not know in preference to the frustrations you experience with the current society of which you are a part.

Me? I like ancient rome, early empire. :D

The truth is, humanity doesn't change much, although societies & technologies do. Humans have been declaiming against the decline of humanity for aeons and the lost "golden age" of their ancestors.

The reality lies in acknowledging the frailties of human nature and human institutions.


Mark A. Baker
p.s. Don't assume you know my politics. :naughty: In that as in other things you merely demonstrate your own simple-mindedness.
 
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