The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[Pepin]

Pepin, I respect you a lot but in all due respect, Why was it the King of Spain's land to give. He did not pay anyone for the land but he or some earlier monarch on his Royal Spanish Line simply claimed it while there was a Native Indian population living there whose ancestor's probably staked the first claim.

As I see it, the USA committed a criminal act based upon their doctrine of "manifest destiny" and created some phoney excuse to demand the land from Mexico. When Mexico would not sell it to them, they just took it. Mexico did not do anything wrong in claiming it when they kicked out the Spanish around 1822 but the Spanish just took at from Indians and were no better than the USA in this regard.

THE GADSDEN PURCHASE- Not too long after claiming the land seized from Mexico, in 1854 and setting the territorial borders, the USA needed more land to run the railroad through. They negotiated a purchase from Mexico and paid $10 million (about $240 million in today's money) to purchase an area of about 30,000 square miles, about the size of Scotland. See link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsden_Purchase

This area includes the large city of Tuscon and very nearly encompasses the city of Phoenix. Mexico willingly sold the USA this fairly large piece of land. Therefore, Pepin, the area inside the Gadsden purchase would not be occupied territory because Mexico willingly sold it to the USA. To follow your logic, California and most of Arizona, nearly all of New Mexico, etc are all occupied territy but a Scotland or South Carolina sized island, encompassing Tuscon would be legitimate U.S. Territory. Did you ever think of that? That is a real stretch as is considering the means the King of Spain used to acquire the land from the natives who lived as superior to the manner in which the USA simply took the land from Mexico.
Lakey

My~oh~my

You are correct.

But, You seem to have lost out of the humor I was suggesting in the letter from the King of Spain.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Orlando has the unique distinction of being given away as part of the reparation act. Like the Panama Canal. What happened to respecting the culture that's already living there.

The Seminoles? :angel:

As has been said: things change.

You don't have to like it, but they will still change.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Mark A. Baker]

People occupy lands, generally intermarry with the prior inhabitants, and it becomes hard to tell who's who after a few generations.

Marry?

Historically that's not exactly the way it worked.


Mark A. Baker

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

i cannot let this go any further, I've had enough, Hell, Iv'e had more than enough.

Aboard the Apollo 1973, now what was that? The Apollo space ship or the Apollo Space ship? Were You in present time or in L. Ron Hubbards time? Which?

Were you on the RPF, the RPFs RPF or on fucking drugs?

You don't fool me.

Sharone,

I have read your story here on ESMB and what was done was tragic, criminal and vile and I have commented on several occasions on this board that fact.

I’m afraid I don’t get the gist of your post above.

There has been a wealth of narrative on this thread from the OP and others that in no way can be taken as sympathetic to, gloating on or glossing over the evil of El Ron and the insanity on the Apollo—quite the contrary.

If there is something that you would like to dialogue about here then please do so. I am willing to hear whatever you have to say.

No one here was your jailor nor was there when you were tortured and terrorized. I walked away, in part, because of my disgust with the way innocent people—particularly children and their parents—were treated at Flag and in the SO.

Face

 

[Ted]

[...]

The Inca, Aztec and Mayan cultures were destroyed by the Spaniards not the USA. The Spaniards completely wiped out those Indian cultures and erased them from the Earth. [...]
Lakey

Okay.

So if your were Spanish would you be equally resentful of the Moors who dominated your territory from around 711 to 1492?

If you were a Moor in 1480 would you be equally resentful of the Spanish Queen and Catholic Church kicking your ass out or making you convert to Christianity?

Charge builds up on these self-determined points of view and positions. When that happens O/W tech becomes very useful.

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Okay.

So if your were Spanish would you be equally resentful of the Moors who dominated your territory from around 711 to 1492?

If you were a Moor in 1480 would you be equally resentful of the Spanish Queen and Catholic Church kicking your ass out or making you convert to Christianity?

Charge builds up on these self-determined points of view and positions. When that happens O/W tech becomes very useful.

Yep. There's been a whole buncha rapin', pillagin' and burnin' goin' on.

Face

 

[RogerB]

Yep. There's been a whole buncha rapin', pillagin' and burnin' goin' on.

Face

Yup . . . and I'm glad you got the sequence right Face If you burn and kill first, it screws up the rest of the pleasures . . . .

To really get the best of it ,it goes: rape, plunder, pillage, burn and then do a bit of killing if there's to much angst against the fun!

And, by the way, don't I remember you from some of those old Viking raised we used to do?

Rog

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Yup . . . and I'm glad you got the sequence right Face If you burn and kill first, it screws up the rest of the pleasures . . . .

To really get the best of it ,it goes: rape, plunder, pillage, burn and then do a bit of killing if there's to much angst against the fun!

And, by the way, don't I remember you from some of those old Viking raised we used to do?

Rog

Hah! Thought you'da forgotten all that by now.

The Hall of Odin is one of the joints I been throwed outta.

Face

 

[Ted]

Hah! Thought you'da forgotten all that by now.

The Hall of Odin is one of the joints I been throwed outta.

Face

Yeah! How many did it take to do the throwin'? :wink2:

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Yeah! How many did it take to do the throwin'? :wink2:

Not that many, actually…they was doin’ me a favor. Valhalla wasn’t coed and was highly overrated. I wasn’t about to hang around that place waitin' on Ragnarök.

Face

 

[lkwdblds]

Inappropriate joke time!

The Seminoles? :angel:

As has been said: things change.

You don't have to like it, but they will still change.


Mark A. Baker

JOKE (PRETTY FUNNY)

A guy asks his friend, "Do you know what we call a person who is prejudiced against Floridian Indians?" The friend says, I have no idea, what do you call such a person.

The first guy says, You call him "antiseminole" Ha, Ha! Get it? a play on the word antisemitic.
Lakey

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Not that many, actually…they was doin’ me a favor. Valhalla wasn’t coed and was highly overrated. I wasn’t about to hang around that place waitin' on Ragnarök.

Face

What? You didnt get admitted to the co-ed section?

Ah! That explains why we've never met.


Mark A. Baker

 

[JackStraw]

and when the white men gave blankets with small pox to the Indians, killed all the buffalo, basically did genocide on the American Indians, it was OK because the USA was going to pave Route 66 for George Maharis and Martin Milner to drive?

individuals should have no rights when faced with the USA's growth

Is there a law against shooting tricking, starving, cheating anyone who runs afoul of Manifest destiny? Aren't all those colored people who speak funny languages SPs anyway!

It worked for the US in Hawaii. It is obviously a successful action. we're on the fast flow program. If it's working, don't change a thing.

It's the American way.

Ah, but "the country was young, with God on its side..."

Jack

 

[Hatshepsut]

lkwdblds

...snipped...
Here's my capsule summary of you. You had tremendous physical beauty (and I am sure you still do) but you were no bimbo but actually had an extremely keen intellect. All sorts of men were swarming all over you; at first life looked interesting and full of promise but then you were hurt badly in your first, or one of your first relationships. At the time, you had no workable spiritual technology to undo the hurt. Newer men were now throwing themselves at you, trying all sorts of "lines" to make themselves different. Most of them were idiots whom you would reject and you took delight in rejecting them "hard" so as to cause them pain and deflate their haughty egos.

Lakey, sweetie, noooooo.

I got married at 17. I never dated ever. I was never a bitch. The gentle wonderful man I chose to marry was gay. When he left me I went into a ten yr relationship with someone I met at work. After that, two artsy types who I could not support financially in the long run. Another ten yr relationship then celibate for 13 yrs. My heartache comes from not having had enough power in my childhood to ward off the Stanley Kawalskys (Streetcar Named Desire) I'm not the player you presume. My second dynamic has always been inverted to a 7th it seems. Aloofness is often taken wrong.

 

[lkwdblds]

I am willing to dialogue with you!

Sharone,

I have read your story here on ESMB and what was done was tragic, criminal and vile and I have commented on several occasions on this board that fact.

I’m afraid I don’t get the gist of your post above.

There has been a wealth of narrative on this thread from the OP and others that in no way can be taken as sympathetic to, gloating on or glossing over the evil of El Ron and the insanity on the Apollo—quite the contrary.

If there is something that you would like to dialogue about here then please do so. I am willing to hear whatever you have to say.

No one here was your jailor nor was there when you were tortured and terrorized. I walked away, in part, because of my disgust with th way innocent people—particularly children and their parents—were treated at Flag and in the SO.

Face

Sharone, I am willing to dialogue with you. I understand you were hurt emotionally on the Apollo, it is certainly no laughing matter. I am very concerned about you and will do anything I can to help you recover from being on the Apollo.

It was only from the questions which you asked that I came to the conclusion that you had not read the first 5 pages of the thread. I cover all the questions which you had asked in those early pages.

WE HAVE SIMILARITIES AND DIFFERENCES IN OUR SEA ORG EXPERIENCES.
I was 33 when I got to the Apollo, while you were a kid. I had already had been to college, worked 9 years in aerospace and two years at Celebrity Centre, you were just a kid and wanted to be with your Dad. I had my lower bridge completely audited in and you did not. When we both started getting knocked around, I had a Mom, Dad and Brother back home and my Dad had a job waiting for me. If you left, your Dad would not be able to talk to you.

As a result, I could take the knocks that came my wife and roll with the punches better than you could take your knocks.

Sharone, I think one big thing that sets us apart is that I had received my full lower bridge auditing and had also done a lot of training whereas as a young kid, you did not experience nearly as many benefits as I did.

When you got screwed around, you had very little to fall back on and could only decide that the whole thing was bullshit and Hubbard was nothing but bullshit. For me, I was left with an enormous dilemma, a mystery so to speak. Was Hubbard was good or bad? How could he help me and help so many others and still do the terrible things which he did?

It took me 5 years screwing around on the internet and talking to exes and now I understand the entire phenomena to my satisfaction. When I wrote my Apollo and CCLA stories, I did not know the answers yet. AS THE ANSWERS ROLLED IN FROM VARIOUS BRILLIANT POSTERS ONTHIS THREAD AND A FEW OTHER THREADS AND WEBSITES. I CAREFULLY DOCUMENTED EVERYTHING THAT I EXPERIENCED. OTHER POSTERS DOCUMENTED EVERYTHING WHICH THEY EXPERIENCED (FACE IS AN EXCELLENT EXAMPLE). CARMELO ANOTHER EXAMPLE. All the answers are here on this thread but the shear volume of the thread makes the answers hard to find.

The thread she be condensed and made into a book, with an index, a table of contents and a Glossary. Who has the time to do it, and do it with no pay to boot.

That's all I can tell you Sharone, if you have some specific questions, comments or complaints about either me or the thread in general, please tell us what they are and I, for one, will try to give you fair and honest answers.
Lakey

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Lakey, sweetie, noooooo.

I got married at 17. I never dated ever. I was never a bitch. The gentle wonderful man I chose to marry was gay. When he left me I went into a ten yr relationship with someone I met at work. After that, two artsy types who I could not support financially in the long run. Another ten yr relationship then celibate for 13 yrs. My heartache comes from not having had enough power in my childhood to ward off the Stanley Kawalskys (Streetcar Named Desire) I'm not the player you presume. My second dynamic has always been inverted to a 7th it seems. Aloofness is often taken wrong.

Stella!!! Stella!!!

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

What? You didnt get admitted to the co-ed section?

Ah! That explains why we've never met.


Mark A. Baker

Ah, Crap! Now you tell me....another outfit where there was a whole buncha things they didn't tell me when I signed on.:confused2:

Face

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Lakey, sweetie, noooooo.

I got married at 17. I never dated ever. I was never a bitch. The gentle wonderful man I chose to marry was gay. When he left me I went into a ten yr relationship with someone I met at work. After that, two artsy types who I could not support financially in the long run. Another ten yr relationship then celibate for 13 yrs. My heartache comes from not having had enough power in my childhood to ward off the Stanley Kawalskys (Streetcar Named Desire) I'm not the player you presume. My second dynamic has always been inverted to a 7th it seems. Aloofness is often taken wrong.

Call me when you want a little light olive oil foot massage & sympathy.


Mark A. Baker

 

[smartone]

Yup . . . and I'm glad you got the sequence right Face If you burn and kill first, it screws up the rest of the pleasures . . . .

To really get the best of it ,it goes: rape, plunder, pillage, burn and then do a bit of killing if there's to much angst against the fun!

And, by the way, don't I remember you from some of those old Viking raised we used to do?

Rog

LOL.

 

[lkwdblds]

Well, I was completely wrong but now I know the full story.

Lakey, sweetie, noooooo.

I got married at 17. I never dated ever. I was never a bitch. The gentle wonderful man I chose to marry was gay. When he left me I went into a ten yr relationship with someone I met at work. After that, two artsy types who I could not support financially in the long run. Another ten yr relationship then celibate for 13 yrs. My heartache comes from not having had enough power in my childhood to ward off the Stanley Kawalskys (Streetcar Named Desire) I'm not the player you presume. My second dynamic has always been inverted to a 7th it seems. Aloofness is often taken wrong.

Well, I was completely wrong but at least I got you to reveal your true story. You weren't offering up much so that we could see where you were coming from so I gave it my best shot to piece together the scraps which you gave us. I can't believe I was so far off base, I did not expect to be that wrong but the main thing is that we all now know more about you.

What was your reason for marrying a gay man? Do you mind revealing that? Was he able to find some way of fulfilling your sexual needs during that 17 years period. Was that marriage similar at all to a gay marriage between too lesbians? Was the marriage just an inversion of the 2nd dynamic to the 7th dynamic? You must have loved your husband very much. How did you express that love? You don't have to answer.

Was I at least right about the Apollo thread? You have made lots of connections here and are being rehabilitated through your participation here, right?

You are a fascinating person to try and understand!
Lakey