The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But
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Enthetan
Master of Disaster
AND had physical unattractiveness being an explicit out-qualification for being accepted in CMO.
Personal theory: he liked having cute girls following him around holding his ashtray for him.
Ted
Gold Meritorious Patron
Enthetan
Master of Disaster
Ted, I generally agree with you, but I would disagree with you on that.
LRH was such an obsessive/compulsive in so many other areas, where things had to be JUST SO to suit him, it seems hard to believe he would have allowed it if he didn't like it. I haven't heard any stories of him taking advantage, but at that point it might have been due to an increasing inability.
Ted
Gold Meritorious Patron
Rog, Carmelo, Toad, Haze, Enthetan and Ted have made some wonderful, I repeat W-O-N-D-E-R-F-U-L posts for you, Lakey. Ted is so, so right about “making love”, IMO. Thank you…I learn so much from all y’all.
Sometime back I made my statement re: boys and girls so I’ll not repeat myself here…you can go back and read it, if you wish. http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=470409&postcount=5776
Human beings are not cattle in a pen at the auction. Men aren’t bulls to be sized up and bid on and women aren’t cows to be picked apart and judged.
Sex is getting one’s rocks off and can be lots of fun. It also can be a situation where one or the other…or both…are, in essence, using the other to masturbate.
“Making Love” to me only occurs when you’re “all the way in” and that doesn’t happen overnight, and it certainly never happens unless the other persons needs, pleasures, dreams and desires are more important to you than your own.
My Lady friend is most attractive, “fit”, desirable to men and successful, and had suitors more handsome, smarter, fitter and richer than I. So, why me?
There are tangible and intangible reasons as to why me. Our relationship is personal and I’m not about to discuss it in any deep detail here on an open board. It’s my personal “business”, as the saying goes, and is between the two of us and no one else.
I will say this as to "why me" for you Lakey, my friend—from some of what she has shared with me; I listen to her, I talk with her and am interested in her dreams, her concerns, her life and her viewpoint; I respect her and treat her with kindness, always; I am honest with her even when that honesty means that I am not Sir Galahad; she can be “herself” with me and I will not judge her nor rebuke her; I know (most of the time) when not to “push” and when to “put my foot down”.
In my experience, women are less “motivated” by the physical attributes of men than men are of women. Women are emerging from centuries upon centuries of oppression by men. That’s a fact, jack. If you lead with your chin (ego) you stand a good chance of getting “slapped” (rejected). If you lead with your heart (openness) you might still get rejected but, I promise you someday, somehow, somewhere you’ll find Love. And, that’s what women are all about—Love. And, what is “Love” to a women? Hell if I know…it’s as different as there are individual men and individual women. But, once they fall in love with you, you’re the greatest thing since sliced bread and, as long as you graciously serve your time in the toaster, the butter and the jam is most exquisite. Men, by nature, are looking for sex, fun and companionship (devotion). Women, by nature, are looking for love, strength (character) and a committment to the realationship.
Oh, and she also likes my 9 inch Shwartz……….just kidding, folks!
Face
looker
Patron Meritorious
Dance like nobody is watching.
Just my 2 cents on finding the right mate, from stuff I've read or seen over the years.
Several years ago on a TV talk show, (it may have been Lenno) a lady match maker asked several single people in the audience to come out to the isle to dance to some light Jazz. she paired up a few people by how similar they danced and how creative they were. The show would pay for their date if they would come back and report how their date went. The match maker explained that dancing is the spirit's interpretation of art or creativeness through the body. It also shows how one might behave in the act of sex. As in nature with animals the dance shows the survivability quotient in pairing for procreation of the species.
Highly physical people tend when dancing to be animated with quick movements jumping or hopping and would likely treat sex as a athletic event.
The more mental analytical person might follow a series or repetitive motions and follow the lead of a partner.
The artful or nurturing type would create a dreamlike flowing dance and might melt in the arms of a equally creative or analytical partner.
Opposites also attract to the degree that they fill in a need or want of another fitting together like a gear. Such as, an excitable person might need someone who is calming.
The couples returned to the show the next night and 4 of the 6 couples said they had a great time and would date again.
Taking a 4 day car trip is another test of creativity, cooperation and tolerance.
But more over its how good a person feels in their own skin.
There is a condition where infatuation coupled with fear can be misinterpreted as love and can become obsessive and toxic. I have experienced this a couple of times in my younger years. Flow 1 and flow 2. It feels strange and surreal when it happens.
Any way, FWIW here is a link to The Discovery Chanel's video series on sex and love.
http://dsc.discovery.com/search/results.html?query=sex&search.x=17&search.y=6
good roads
Just my 2 cents on finding the right mate, from stuff I've read or seen over the years.
Several years ago on a TV talk show, (it may have been Lenno) a lady match maker asked several single people in the audience to come out to the isle to dance to some light Jazz. she paired up a few people by how similar they danced and how creative they were. The show would pay for their date if they would come back and report how their date went. The match maker explained that dancing is the spirit's interpretation of art or creativeness through the body. It also shows how one might behave in the act of sex. As in nature with animals the dance shows the survivability quotient in pairing for procreation of the species.
Highly physical people tend when dancing to be animated with quick movements jumping or hopping and would likely treat sex as a athletic event.
The more mental analytical person might follow a series or repetitive motions and follow the lead of a partner.
The artful or nurturing type would create a dreamlike flowing dance and might melt in the arms of a equally creative or analytical partner.
Opposites also attract to the degree that they fill in a need or want of another fitting together like a gear. Such as, an excitable person might need someone who is calming.
The couples returned to the show the next night and 4 of the 6 couples said they had a great time and would date again.
Taking a 4 day car trip is another test of creativity, cooperation and tolerance.
But more over its how good a person feels in their own skin.
There is a condition where infatuation coupled with fear can be misinterpreted as love and can become obsessive and toxic. I have experienced this a couple of times in my younger years. Flow 1 and flow 2. It feels strange and surreal when it happens.
Any way, FWIW here is a link to The Discovery Chanel's video series on sex and love.
http://dsc.discovery.com/search/results.html?query=sex&search.x=17&search.y=6
good roads
afaceinthecrowd
Gold Meritorious Patron
I was there and saw it all...your analysis is very astute, Ted.
It was also the “Power Trip” thing. It was a "Power Trip" thing for El Ron for Hisself's little nymphets to parade all over the Ship, flaunting their “stuff” (and most of them were v-e-r-y enticing) and no one would dream of messin’ with them because they were “El Ron’s”. Hisself reveled in the fact that they would do whatever Hisself asked knowing that no one else could touch them. It was also a "Power Trip" for the messengers. What teenage girl wouldn't want to wear what they want, have every adult in their world to fawn over them and acquiesce to their adolescent babble, self affected inflection and every mood?:confused2:
The CMO "Show" was one of the things that got me wondering just "who and what" El Ron really was.
El Ron was very adept at preying upon women’s attributes and weaknesses. I think Hisself knew exactly what he was doing.
Face
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purple haze
Patron with Honors
Auditor's Toad
Clear as Mud
"Sex is getting one’s rocks off and can be lots of fun. It also can be a situation where one or the other…or both…are, in essence, using the other to masturbate. "
Interesting. The great thing I got from my second wife ( and I refer that 5 year period of my life as WWIII ) was her saying about her first husband
: " He used me as a place to masturbate !"
That had the most profound effect on love making for me.
As with all things in life ... that it always works best for me when I first and continualy give - in abundance - what it is that I want.
Interesting. The great thing I got from my second wife ( and I refer that 5 year period of my life as WWIII ) was her saying about her first husband
: " He used me as a place to masturbate !"
That had the most profound effect on love making for me.
As with all things in life ... that it always works best for me when I first and continualy give - in abundance - what it is that I want.
Terril park
Sponsor
From a friend, sort of, who was one of the early messengers on the ship
this is not the case. They were very young, and Hubbard found a way to utilise them/ expand his domination. IIRC hotpants were not worn.
afaceinthecrowd
Gold Meritorious Patron
I was there, Terril. In the very early days they were young. By the early '70's they were most pubescent, wore scant halter tops, tight hot pants and white-leather platform calf–boots. They had the best “do’s”, nails and conditions on the Ship and were, whether they knew it or not, a bunch of “Lolita’s”. There was many a drooling tongue amongst the male crew members and there is no way this can be spun that El Ron, the Messengers and all the crew were not aware of that.
You don't "utilize" children...you nurture, guide, watch out for and "raise" them. When they were actually children, they and their parents should have been sent to land Orgs or "off-loaded". The whole timbre of Flag was that we were at "War" or in "Battle" most of the time...that's not a place for children to grow up or parents to raise children in, if there was a choice. There was a choice...and El Ron made it.
I got along with them very well at that time...later, with the advent of Da Monster and that ilk...that all changed. Back then, they were adolescents that were just trying to please but knew they were "special, important and autonomous".
Face
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Enthetan
Master of Disaster
Rog, Carmelo, Toad, Haze, Enthetan and Ted have made some wonderful, I repeat W-O-N-D-E-R-F-U-L posts for you, Lakey. Ted is so, so right about “making love”, IMO. Thank you…I learn so much from all y’all.
Sometime back I made my statement re: boys and girls so I’ll not repeat myself here…you can go back and read it, if you wish. http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=470409&postcount=5776
Human beings are not cattle in a pen at the auction. Men aren’t bulls to be sized up and bid on and women aren’t cows to be picked apart and judged.
Sex is getting one’s rocks off and can be lots of fun. It also can be a situation where one or the other…or both…are, in essence, using the other to masturbate.
“Making Love” to me only occurs when you’re “all the way in” and that doesn’t happen overnight, and it certainly never happens unless the other persons needs, pleasures, dreams and desires are more important to you than your own.
My Lady friend is most attractive, “fit”, desirable to men and successful, and had suitors more handsome, smarter, fitter and richer than I. So, why me?
There are tangible and intangible reasons as to why me. Our relationship is personal and I’m not about to discuss it in any deep detail here on an open board. It’s my personal “business”, as the saying goes, and is between the two of us and no one else.
I will say this as to "why me" for you Lakey, my friend—from some of what she has shared with me; I listen to her, I talk with her and am interested in her dreams, her concerns, her life and her viewpoint; I respect her and treat her with kindness, always; I am honest with her even when that honesty means that I am not Sir Galahad; she can be “herself” with me and I will not judge her nor rebuke her; I know (most of the time) when not to “push” and when to “put my foot down”.
In my experience, women are less “motivated” by the physical attributes of men than men are of women. Women are emerging from centuries upon centuries of oppression by men. That’s a fact, jack. If you lead with your chin (ego) you stand a good chance of getting “slapped” (rejected). If you lead with your heart (openness) you might still get rejected but, I promise you someday, somehow, somewhere you’ll find Love. And, that’s what women are all about—Love. And, what is “Love” to a women? Hell if I know…it’s as different as there are individual men and individual women. But, once they fall in love with you, you’re the greatest thing since sliced bread and, as long as you graciously serve your time in the toaster, the butter and the jam is most exquisite. Men, by nature, are looking for sex, fun and companionship (devotion). Women, by nature, are looking for love, strength (character) and a committment to the realationship.
Oh, and she also likes my 9 inch Shwartz……….just kidding, folks!
Face
There is no single answer to "what are women looking for in a man". Some things that I think are very common, and evolutionarily based, are ability, fitness, and status. One thing about women, is that they are very vulnerable when pregnant and/or caring for young children -- and the world can be a bad place. It's good to have a man in whom she can have confidence, that he will be able to stand between her and any shit the world may toss her and her kids way. Being able, having status among his peers, being physically fit -- those are qualities that inspire comfort.
My two cents. Your mileage may vary.
We now return to your scheduled program.
FoTi
Crusader
This reminded me of Lakey's last few posts on this thread.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7rseCwM9mU&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7rseCwM9mU&feature=player_embedded
Terril park
Sponsor
I was there, Terril. In the very early days they were young. By the early '70's they were most pubescent, wore scant halter tops, tight hot pants and white-leather platform calf–boots. They had the best “do’s”, nails and conditions on the Ship and were, whether they knew it or not, a bunch of “Lolita’s”. There was many a drooling tongue amongst the male crew members and there is no way this can be spun that El Ron, the Messengers and all the crew were not aware of that.
You don't "utilize" children...you nurture, guide, watch out for and "raise" them. When they were actually children, they and their parents should have been sent to land Orgs or "off-loaded". The whole timbre of Flag was that we were at "War" or in "Battle" most of the time...that's not a place for children to grow up or parents to raise children in, if there was a choice. There was a choice...and El Ron made it.
I got along with them very well at that time...later, with the advent of Da Monster and that ilk...that all changed. Back then, they were adolescents that were just trying to please but knew they were "special, important and autonomous".
Face
OK. I may not be completely correct. However Sharone and Janis Grady may possibly comment, as they were messengers back then.
RogerB
Crusader
Real Estate Values
A few pages back some of you were discussing getting into real estate ventures . . . buying and fixing and whatever.
Here is some info for those interested:
http://www.businessinsider.com/gary-shilling-house-prices
The word is that real estate prices will likely fall another 20% . . . the rationale behind this view is well made in the article.
Rog
A few pages back some of you were discussing getting into real estate ventures . . . buying and fixing and whatever.
Here is some info for those interested:
http://www.businessinsider.com/gary-shilling-house-prices
The word is that real estate prices will likely fall another 20% . . . the rationale behind this view is well made in the article.
Rog
afaceinthecrowd
Gold Meritorious Patron
Thank you Terril, my friend...I'd love for Sharone and Janis to comment and dialogue here...that would be great. I've read most of Sharone's posts on this board, as well as Janis' here and other places.
Let's get specific about back "then", Terril. The "correctness" of your post depends largely on what era you're talking about...except for the "utilizing" thing. IMO, they were exploited along with their parents.
Are you talking '67-'69 or '70-'72 or '73-'75? What years are you, or your source, talking about? A girl that was 8 or 9 years old in '68 or '69 was 15 or 16 years old in '74-'75. Plus, there were other adolescents and teenagers added to the crew during all those years. I know what I saw...I know what others saw...it's all over the boards.
I am in no way denigrating or defiling the experience and viewpoint of these now adult children. I’d love to hear their “take” on this ‘cause I was there, I was one of the adult male crew members. I was on El Ron’s personal “lines”, I was one of the “MUD” Decks folks (Midships Upper Decks). My story is mine and their story is theirs. Let ‘er buck.
Face
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Mark A. Baker
Sponsor
Twain Autobiography
CBS News with a report on the upcoming release of Mark Twain's Autobiography.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/17/sunday/main6966458.shtml
Of particular interest is the included excerpt from March 30, 1906.
The more things change, the more they remain the same.
Mark A. Baker
CBS News with a report on the upcoming release of Mark Twain's Autobiography.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/17/sunday/main6966458.shtml
Of particular interest is the included excerpt from March 30, 1906.
The more things change, the more they remain the same.
Mark A. Baker
Hatshepsut
Crusader
Thankyou! Thankyou!
I think possibly that if you could locate the main second dynamic engram a person was motivating from or trying to prevent from ever happening again you could bring some sanity back to many. Kind of Power Processes for the 2nd Dynamic. :wink2:
Face is right in saying women are recovering from centuries of oppression. That is more of a 'cult of women' engram. Something recorded in the group mind of the akasha belonging to the female identity.
Not everyone wears this like a coat, obviously. 
Well said facey.
Perhaps one of my motivations for getting involved with Scientology was that I had been severely overwhelmed in life and any effort to fight back would've resulted in certain harm. I was sitting in powerlessness. This emotional wound is probably something I brought along with me into this life and into the family I was born into. My father was Calabraise and brought the tradition of invalidating and subjugating women with him when he married my mother. I was quickly given to understand that everything took second or third place to the 'flashing lights'. I was fast to adopt an attitude of extreme prejudice against that 'way' of being in the world. To hell with the future, to hell with the offspring. Validation of oneself was never so sweet as when gotten thru sex. I observed it being used as a JUSTIFICATION by mom
I had noticed this extreme hurt in a lot of young women who had turned to same sex partners. I never regarded this as a hormonal situation where they really were 'gay'. I thought they were just deeply deeply psychically wounded. As if observing what had been sacrificed to the 2D was so over the top that there was a decision not to grant it any credence any more. It wasn't until later in life that I realized I was wrong about this reality. I am straight.
My point is these areas of empowerment and disempowerment stick to our ridges like glue. Super Glue. They leave service facsimiles often never inspected.The bigger the ego the more empowerment issues are motivators.
And I have had to ask myself "Do Motivators in and of themselves carry an urge to be dramatized?" Well, silly question...or is it? But who hasn't seen individuals carrying around 'energy packages' that have to do with these encapsulated hurts and valences on the 2D...looking for opportunities to replay themselves.. It takes CHARACTER to not take advantage of opportunities presented in a vulnerable/inviting human being to experience your own power. I believe we are naturally inclined to spot fertile ground on which to act out our pet dramas to a point of evanescence within ourselves. We want to neutralize our angst in a completed cycle of action and an acknowledgment.
The second dynamic has so much insanity. It is a feast of role playing. It is not always rational. We all have our love map. Women will continually think a certain type is her man, and men will have a certain imprinted 'love type' they follow consciously or not.
I know in my life I have often allowed myself to be scripted to any way the dominant male wanted to create me as being. Now I am super sensitive to what beingness is being projected on me via their filters. There is such a wild wild diversity of what attributes men will choose to endow a woman with. Total arbitraries. Phenomenally diverse, and saying much about where they are. This is where you find out about one's character. What role we will pigeonhole another in so as to 'have' some idea or other about ourselves. All arbitraries.
To make something of someone or nothing of someone is a choice.
My two cents to include in this brief lonely hearts club section of our thread.
Enthetan
Master of Disaster
I was there, Terril. In the very early days they were young. By the early '70's they were most pubescent, wore scant halter tops, tight hot pants and white-leather platform calf–boots. They had the best “do’s”, nails and conditions on the Ship and were, whether they knew it or not, a bunch of “Lolita’s”. There was many a drooling tongue amongst the male crew members and there is no way this can be spun that El Ron, the Messengers and all the crew were not aware of that.
You don't "utilize" children...you nurture, guide, watch out for and "raise" them. When they were actually children, they and their parents should have been sent to land Orgs or "off-loaded". The whole timbre of Flag was that we were at "War" or in "Battle" most of the time...that's not a place for children to grow up or parents to raise children in, if there was a choice. There was a choice...and El Ron made it.
I got along with them very well at that time...later, with the advent of Da Monster and that ilk...that all changed. Back then, they were adolescents that were just trying to please but knew they were "special, important and autonomous".
Face
You put your finger on the essential narcissistic evil of LRH.
Somebody raised from childhood in the Sea Org would be trapped in the Sea Org -- no education, no contacts outside Scientology, no experience in how to function in the outside world. Where could they go if they left? Worse, where could they go if they were tossed out?
Then give them power over others, give them a relatively better lifestyle, but with the knowledge that it would all go away in a flash if they failed to please the guy at the top. What evil could such a person resist committing, if it was ordered by the one who held their existence in his hands?
Enthetan
Master of Disaster
I think the disparities may come from different parties being there for different periods in the saga. The scene in the first few years may not have been the scene in the later years.
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