The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[thetanic]

I had never considered that I knew my mother before. As a mom/daughter relationship not much was restimulated. However in an adult female/adult female scenario things began to get sticky.

I don't think I knew my parents before before, but I did choose them.

 

[lkwdblds]

Typical Mark Baker

Well, Lakey, since in the freezone "loyalists" not only do not attack lrh, neither do they tolerate public impugning of his integrity. They do not publicly acknowledge any of the disreputable aspects of his record or conduct, nor have they any regard for those who do.

Both Aida & Terril fully acknowledge Hubbard's faults, nor does either consider their own use of tech to be in any way beholden to Hubbard's "good reputation". You were mistaken in your prior statements. As I said, the last "loyalist" to routinely post on esmb in my recollection was John Nunez, and he left quite some time back.

It is precisely because false views about the freezoners on the board are routinely posted in an effort to discredit them and the freezone more generally that I have made the point of correcting you.

My prior remark stands. I can't think of a regular poster on esmb who would qualify as a "loyalist". A few have been proponents of "standard tech". Considerably more are generally "pro-tech" in that they advocate either "scientology standard tech" or a form of spiritual tech which is derived from or in some fashion similar to scientology tech. None hold themselves as being personally loyal to LRH, holding that personal loyalty as definitive.


Mark A. Baker

I have not read any free zone sites since 2008. I don't follow them and don't know what they espouse and don't espouse. They are not on my radar screen and I have no interest in discrediting them and did not make any posts to do that. Your "corrections" are not even called for.

All I said in my post was that there are people on the Apollo thread who believe that all LRH tech, both Management and Auditing are valid, others who think some is valid and some isn't and still others who think it is all crap. The sole point in stating this was to get Free Being to tell me more exactly where he stood. In this endeavor, I was successful. Free Being answered with a very straight post telling where he stands and why. MY MISSION WAS ACCOMPLISHED.

Your stated reason to correct me was the following: "It is precisely because false views about the freezoners on the board are routinely posted in an effort to discredit them and the freezone more generally that I have made the point of correcting you."

Isn't part of your argument that there are no freezoners on the board? Yet, here you are stating that freezoners on the board are routinely having false reports written about them. Then you accuse me of stating that a few freezoners are on the board and challenge me to name even one.

YOU HAVE CREATED A LOOP OF CONTRADICTION HERE THAT IS INCREDIBLE!!
You state freezoners on the board are routinely having false views posted about them. I post that there are some "loyalists" on the board. You challenge me to name even one. I do and you insist I am in error. The person herself admits to being a "loyalist" and even then you insist she is not and that I am wrong. You say that I am wrong because she is not a freezoner and there have been no freezoners on the board in years.

THIS IS SHEER INSANITY! YOU HAVE BEEN CAUGHT IN A LOOP OF CONTRADICTION BUT NEVER FEAR, YOU WILL PONTIFICATE THAT YOU ARE RIGHT. YOU HAVE NEVER ADMITTED THAT YOU ARE WRONG ON ESMB TO MY KNOWLEDGE AND I AM SURE YOUR RECORD WILL REMAIN INTACT!

I don't read any of the Freezone sites, I don't know who the Freezoners are and they are not even on my radar screen. Even so, I am accused of posting false views about freezoners to discredit them. TALK ABOUT DELUSION! THIS IS A SAD STATE OF AFFAIRS! It is akin to Sancho Pancho attacking a windwill with his sword, attempting to "correct" the windmill, a non existing enemy which Sancho is sure is posing a major threat to him.

Your performance on this cycle is so erratic, confused and full of contradictions that I am really concerned about your mental state. I sincerely believe that you need some counseling to sort this all out. I am really serious about this, it is not an effort to belittle you. If this was the first time, I would not make this statement but it happens over and over with you, these crazy attacks on me just spring from nowhere and so far to date, they have all been 180 degrees off the mark.

I would recommend that you take a PCA test and have Candy grade it and go over the results with you as a first step in getting this all sorted out.
Sincerely, Lakey

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

For those here that have an interest, I have posted Part Three of "Shooting Stars".

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=526692&postcount=16

Face

 

[Ted]

Isn't it true that on OTIII. the BT's are run through 2 incidents once they are located. First Incident 2 is run and then incident 1. Incident 1 is very early on the track and they are run through this with the intention of having them run out this very basic incident so that they will be gone, i.e. "blow". That's the way the level was when I ran it in the 70's.

On NOTs a different procedure was run but it seems that we were still asked to get them to blow.

Roger B. (and perhaps others) has suggested a step where the pre OT is asked whether or not he wants to keep the BT around or have it leave. The Pre OT has a personal choice in this matter instead of always shooting for the BT to leave. Introducing this step seems to greatly improve the results of NOTs style auditing.

If this step is introduced into NOTs, then the body of your post can be applied. However, my experience in C of S, last session in 1993, was that the auditor and the pc were always going for a blow. Having a BT with its charge dissipated and the BT doing well and then sticking around in the pre OT's space was never allowed to happen. On audited NOTs, which is as far as I went, thank God, there was no option to leave a deabberated BT staying in the pre OT's space.

Maybe on Solo NOTs this was an option but I doubt it. Maybe those who have done Solo NOTs can clear up my doubts on this matter.

Another key element in these levels was the use of running "havingness" at the end of a session. The idea is to fill the vacuum created so that it is not re occupied by new BT's. This has some workability but even with this step introduced, new BT's tend to replace the old; it just seems to occur at a much slower pace if havingness is run.
Lakey

I'll speak as one of the "others."

You have it way wrong. It is not up to the pre-OT to determine if he wants to keep the BT around or not. This smacks of further enslavement. (Perhaps it is simply your wording that gives this impression?) Think co-operation. Some stay around to help, to get "trained," to do whatever beings do for each other. Others are free to leave. All get their charge cleaned up. That is not a rule. It happens, usually, that way. Some stay pissed off until the appropriate BPC is located and addressed. Same stuff as with beings with bodies.

Hubbard treated beings in life just as he held them in his mind. He used them, abused them, blamed them, then blew them off.

In the 3 materials he states that a pre-OT with BTs is in Treason to himself.

Hubbard was FOS. Watch out for his slight-of-hand manipulation designed to shift power to Hisself.

I think an auditor surrounded by beings who are dramatizing BPC is possibly in treason as an auditor.

Here is a fine article by Geir Isene. We "others" have had this "cognition" long ago. It is a fine article and given that it is written as someone who has been held in high esteem in the church, what he has to say here should penetrate where it needs to go. On the Value of Life

 

[Hatshepsut]

lkwdblds

Leon, thankis for telling us all those juicy anecdotes from you past track!! The ones in the Roman Coliseum I found particularly interesting. I ran one myself having to do with the ancient Roman Coliseum in 1973 in my XDN, running it R3R style.

I have vivid recall of being a particpant in the battles taking place for gore and entertainment in ancient Rome but I was not a gladiator nor a victim to be killed by a strong and skilled gladiator. I was the "matchmaker". I was Jewish and overweight and I booked various gladiator's to compete with one another. I made the matches, negotiated their contracts and all of that stuff; sort of a 1st century white, Jewish version of Don King the well known boxing matchmaker of the late 20th century.

Like Don King, I was an unsavory character and a bit slimmy and unethical but entertaining and colorful

.

Coooool Lakey!!! That would be the Don King from Cleveland! Mr. Thrilla in Manilla. Mr. Rumble in the Jungle. Maybe you can do the promo for the DM grand slam when it comes. The Scammer in the Slammer. :wink2:

Make it pay.

__

But you've probably crossed over to being a cream puff.

 

[Terril park]

All I said in my post was that there are people on the Apollo thread who believe that all LRH tech, both Management and Auditing are valid,

Can you name one?

 

[Hatshepsut]

lkwdblds

I have vivid recall of being a particpant in the battles taking place for gore and entertainment in ancient Rome but I was not a gladiator nor a victim to be killed by a strong and skilled gladiator. I was the "matchmaker". I was Jewish and overweight and I booked various gladiator's to compete with one another

I actually had considerable charge on the coliseums, though probably in the provinces and not in Rome itself. I had run an incident where one of our Freezone C/Ss was actually condemned along with our little religious group who were dissenters against Rome. He was allowed to minister some sort of blessings or sacraments to us in the cave-like corridors leading into the arena. We just kept being thrown back for sport after each round being saved for later in the day. This went on until we were completely dead. Like letting a cat play with a mouse off and on until it gives up and expires. The memory was sad and our minister was helplessly drunk on the sour wine left over by the guards. Too much to confront.

 

[Terril park]

I'll speak as one of the "others."

You have it way wrong. It is not up to the pre-OT to determine if he wants to keep the BT around or not. This smacks of further enslavement. (Perhaps it is simply your wording that gives this impression?) Think co-operation. Some stay around to help, to get "trained," to do whatever beings do for each other. Others are free to leave. All get their charge cleaned up. That is not a rule. It happens, usually, that way. Some stay pissed off until the appropriate BPC is located and addressed. Same stuff as with beings with bodies.

Hubbard treated beings in life just as he held them in his mind. He used them, abused them, blamed them, then blew them off.

In the 3 materials he states that a pre-OT with BTs is in Treason to himself.

Hubbard was FOS. Watch out for his slight-of-hand manipulation designed to shift power to Hisself.

I think an auditor surrounded by beings who are dramatizing BPC is possibly in treason as an auditor.

Here is a fine article by Geir Isene. We "others" have had this "cognition" long ago. It is a fine article and given that it is written as someone who has been held in high esteem in the church, what he has to say here should penetrate where it needs to go. On the Value of Life

Done OT 3 twice. Didn't believe the story, but had good results.

Had no consideration of whether those addressed should leave or not.
As it happens I think most did. Their call. Didn't even form part of a theta OSA organisation to keep track.

I didn't happen upon antagonistic or ARCX " BTs" or whatever.

 

[Ted]

For those here that have an interest, I have posted Part Three of "Shooting Stars".

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=526692&postcount=16

Face

Hisself was seriously f'ed up.

I just love the ever-present brushoff, "conducting research."

Hey guess what... I did some scio courses, audited a bunch, ran a couple of organizations. All in all, I was just conducting research. My findings are available on the a.c.t. archives and here, in part, on ESMB.

Good writing, Facey!

 

[Ted]

Done OT 3 twice. Didn't believe the story, but had good results.

Had no consideration of whether those addressed should leave or not.
As it happens I think most did. Their call. Didn't even form part of a theta OSA organisation to keep track.

I didn't happen upon antagonistic or ARCX " BTs" or whatever.

I believe you. It's a case condition. Your reach knows no bounds. Wish I had a person or two like you working in my Div 6.

 

[Terril park]

I believe you. It's a case condition. Your reach knows no bounds. Wish I had a person or two like you working in my Div 6.

You mean I'm not.

 

[Hatshepsut]

Done OT 3 twice. Didn't believe the story, but had good results.

Had no consideration of whether those addressed should leave or not.
As it happens I think most did. Their call. Didn't even form part of a theta OSA organisation to keep track.

I didn't happen upon antagonistic or ARCX " BTs" or whatever.

I agree with Ted. Its a case condition. Possibly most of what is being relieved is collapsed universes and coincidence of viewpoint. Some of these guys are aleady off doing something else in another body or area but part of their attention is still stuck on you via cycles needing to be completed.

On the Happiness RD I felt what I was blowing were just bits returning back to a person where they were currently existing. No mention of BTs or Cs in this type of session. What was actually going on with the perceived 'blows' or noticable departings from one's space (of which there could be lots) wasn't taken up.

I've some observations about the mechanics of O/Ws. It is not all that mechanically important to everyone. I have experienced individuals that have just HAD to turn an occurence around or repay an imagined slight ASAP or their panties would remain in a wad seriously until this was achieved. There is not an inclination to believe that future karma will work things out for them. There is no sense that God will deal out the judgements even though they verbally proclaim this. These believe that because of their good standing with the Infinite and their alliance to guardian angels you will be brought to your knees. (They have their own 'gang' stationed to help make you wrong.)

I think control incidents that whittled a person's space down so as to operate a body or shrunk the person into the pineal gland installed this eye for an eye 'mechanism' so as to keep the playing field safe for people identifying with their human nature. This was protection from those not yet in total agreement with the affair but monkeying around in the area all the same. The impulse to repay a transgression either immediately or in the future can be very STRONG for some.. Most have experienced a piggy back demon at one time who represents the viewpoint of someone who is very very angry with them and needs to see them 'punished'. What to do. Maybe this demon at times interferes with your love interests or your job prospects or just that you know that your accomplishments will be jinxed once you've arrived where you want to be. What are these cloying viewpoints messing with our lives. What is this phenomena of carrying around somebody who is pissed off so bad that it demands our destruction. Would a handling consider it was another being. A part of ourselves? The greatest mushy return to ARC stories told revolve around such stuff. What is really going on? What is it that is blowing.

 

[Ted]

You mean I'm not.

Dropped out time.

Of course you are. :wink2:

 

[Leon]

I always ran them until they "went free". And to me "free" means they are free to go or free to stay.

It worked well.

 

[lkwdblds]

The closest I know to one is Aida Thomas.

Can you name one?

The closest I know to one is Aida Thomas. I know of no LRH policy, either iin management or in tech that she disagrees with and she admits that she is an LRH loyalist but not a blind LRH loyalist. Their are traits of LRH and actions he has taken which she does not agree with but I don't know of any LRH tech that she disagrees with. There is a possibility that Janice Grady and Blue Spirit who both have posted here in the past but are not currently posting also fall into this category. Of all the thousands of ESMB members, I only know a few hundred of them so there be many more in this category but I do not know. Neither do you nor Mark Baker know that they do not exist.

The whole issue is a moot point because it was mentioned briefly in passing solely to gain further understanding from Free Being about one of his posts. My usage of this loyalist class was successful in illiciting a response from Free Being and that is all it was intended for.

I have put in a lot of time explaining why I made the comment I did. By doing what I did, Free Being clarified his position on ESMB very clearly and explained exactly why he feels the way he does. That is why I wrote what I wrote and it achieved its desired result. That is the big picture. If you or Mark Baker want to quibble about a trivial side issue, I have already shown that my remark that there were some people on ESMB who were loyalists was not completely off the wall. Diana Class VIII has admitted in her recent post that she is an LRH loyalist though not a blind one. That shows that there is at least one LRH loyalist currently posting on "the board".

Of course Mark Baker or you, Terrill, would never have the balls to take on Diana Class VIII directly and tell her that she is not a loyalist so you prefer to attack me.

I am closing out this issue and will say no more about it. I made my point and proved that my claim was not bogus plus I got the answer I wanted to know from Free Being.

I am the host of the Apollo 1973 thread, by far the largest and most successful thread ever to appear on ESMB. I was an obscure member of CCLA treasury and failed on the Apollo after only 2 months there. When I arrived here only a handful of people had ever heard of me and yet my thread has 263,500 views when we passed 10,000 views on December 3, 2009 only 14 months ago. That is over a quarter of a million hits in only 14 months.

I know how to run a thread and it is based on telling the truth as best as one can, maintaining personal integrity and granting couresty and beingness to opposing viewpoints. I don't need to prove myself to Mark A. Baker or people of his ilk. The top people in any endeavor are often attacked by people with lower achievment in their field and so it is with me in the area of thread creation and hosting. With Mark and Terril, I have said all I can say about this freezone loyalist dispute and we have reached the point where we will have to agree to disagree.

I respect both their views, Terril's more so than Mark's but I do respect Mark's views. He has written some very good posts recently which I have complimented him on and he is very well informed on the history of the Roman Empire, especially relating to the early Christian period.

I am not going to respond to anymore posts on the LRH loyalist issue.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Nice post Hats!

I agree with Ted. Its a case condition. Possibly most of what is being relieved is collapsed universes and coincidence of viewpoint. Some of these guys are aleady off doing something else in another body or area but part of their attention is still stuck on you via cycles needing to be completed.

On the Happiness RD I felt what I was blowing were just bits returning back to a person where they were currently existing. No mention of BTs or Cs in this type of session. What was actually going on with the perceived 'blows' or noticable departings from one's space (of which there could be lots) wasn't taken up.

I've some observations about the mechanics of O/Ws. It is not all that mechanically important to everyone. I have experienced individuals that have just HAD to turn an occurence around or repay an imagined slight ASAP or their panties would remain in a wad seriously until this was achieved. There is not an inclination to believe that future karma will work things out for them. There is no sense that God will deal out the judgements even though they verbally proclaim this. These believe that because of their good standing with the Infinite and their alliance to guardian angels you will be brought to your knees. (They have their own 'gang' stationed to help make you wrong.)

I think control incidents that whittled a person's space down so as to operate a body or shrunk the person into the pineal gland installed this eye for an eye 'mechanism' so as to keep the playing field safe for people identifying with their human nature. This was protection from those not yet in total agreement with the affair but monkeying around in the area all the same. The impulse to repay a transgression either immediately or in the future can be very STRONG for some.. Most have experienced a piggy back demon at one time who represents the viewpoint of someone who is very very angry with them and needs to see them 'punished'. What to do. Maybe this demon at times interferes with your love interests or your job prospects or just that you know that your accomplishments will be jinxed once you've arrived where you want to be. What are these cloying viewpoints messing with our lives. What is this phenomena of carrying around somebody who is pissed off so bad that it demands our destruction. Would a handling consider it was another being. A part of ourselves? The greatest mushy return to ARC stories told revolve around such stuff. What is really going on? What is it that is blowing.

Hats, you seem to have a good mind for tech. You seem to be able to achieve a conceptual understanding of technical issues rather than just learning rote procedures. There is a lot of good material in your above post.

As a related side issue, for a while I was massaging people and if they had a stiff neck or a headache or a bone a little out of place and my strong accupressure massage was unable make them right, I would often detect what I perceived to be an entity, usually connected to their head. These entities could be more like the collapsing universes which you refer to above but that would not change the gist of what I am about to write about.

We would run these out using techniques similar to what I had done to me on NOTs. Nearly all of these perceived entities were harmful beings or clusters who were carrying out a command to reduce the power, awareness or preception of an individual. I went along doing this with good but not exceptional results.

Roger B. commented several times. One comment had to do with flowing admiration to any beings who were resisting leaving. This proved to be extremely effective and improved my sessions greatly. Next, Roger commented on not blowing off all of one's entities and beings. His comments were based on earlier comments by Carmelo.

I don't have Roger's post in front of me since these remarks of his were made sometime in Septemter 2010, I believe. Nevertheless, I recall that Roger said that the pc should be offered the choice of whether the being stays on in his or her space or if the being is made to blow that space. I am hoping Roger will appear tomorrow and comment on this to see if I duplicated him correctly.

In any case, I implemented Roger's suggestion and always asked the pc whether they wanted to keep the being or entity in their space or if they wanted to have them leave their space and go pursue its own life on its own.

At that point, the success rate of the sessions which I was giving improved again although about 90% of the time my pc's wanted the entities to leave their space and not stick around.

I wondered if the fact that all the beings and entities which were being run were turned on only when the pc was experiencing body difficulties such as headaches, and whether this led to a class of entities which the person wanted to get rid of. Maybe other forms of finding entities to run might locate a class of entities which a pc would prefer keeping. I have no idea if this is true but my gut reaction is that it is not true.

Do you have any comments?
Gary

 

[Mark A. Baker]

I actually had considerable charge on the coliseums, though probably in the provinces and not in Rome itself. I had run an incident where one of our Freezone C/Ss was actually condemned along with our little religious group (I was a younger female) who were dissenters against Rome. He was a allowed to minister some sort of blessings or sacraments to us in the cave-like corridors leading into the arenas. We just kept being thrown back for sport after each round being saved for later in the day. This went on until we were each completely dead. Like letting a cat play with a mouse off and on until it gives up and expires. The memory was sad and our minister was helplessly drunk on the cheap wine left over by the guards. Too much to confront.

Thanks for this report. The guards will be duly punished for providing the wine.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Mark A. Baker]

The closest I know to one is Aida Thomas. ...

I am a friend of Aida's and have discussed many such matters with her in depth on numerous occasions. Her views & attitudes are certainly not unknown to me. She has entrusted me with her friendship, as I have her. Accordingly, there is no need for me to "take on Aida".

Your statements completely misrepresent her views. No doubt this is unintentional on your part as it most probably results from your own failure to understand what her actual views are.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Hatshepsut]

I wondered if the fact that all the beings and entities which were being run were turned on only when the pc was experiencing body difficulties such as headaches, and whether this led to a class of entities which the person wanted to get rid of. Maybe other forms of finding entities to run might locate a class of entities which a pc would prefer keeping. I have no idea if this is true but my gut reaction is that it is not true.

Do you have any comments?
Gary

I think any time you carry lots of beings with you attached to the body you have a greater risk of succumbing to overwhelm somewhere along the line. I realize some may feel there's just more love in the group bond.

I, like you, don't think most people would ever prefer to keep entities. The idea of having entities is sort of a 'modifying' factor to one's own beingnes and raw power. There are heavy electrically charged entities. There are beings you can feel which seem just rarified essences. Helpers and guardians etc probably are not anchored or dormant in/on a person's body. There's all manner of life forms around us. But if you are looking for groups of beings who are attached to a body or stuck__ whatever valence they are in, release em! You don't have to intend them to do anything...stay or go.

My thoughts in response to what you posited?

I guess you could have a group who have taken on being machinery to do things for you. Like maybe remembering movements in music or something. And you might think, "I don't want to blow my 'smarty' circuit.... maybe I should keep these guys around, they're my friends. Hmmm. That could leave me lonely." I've heard of rare occasions like this where the PC was lonely afterwards.

Beings are always better off being themselves. And if they are in a valence serving a purpose it's still better for them to be themselves. If one works through the body with love and intends only to relieve charge, I don't see that anything that wanted to stay and help you wouldn't continue to do so gratefully.

Those are my thoughts on it.

 

[Hatshepsut]

Thanks for this report. The guards will be duly punished for providing the wine.


Mark A. Baker

Thanks for the sympathy Roman Consul Augustus Imperator

Beware the Visigoths