The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But
- Thread starter lkwdblds
- Start date
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FoTi
Crusader
I seem to be getting worse with age about the order vs disorder. I cannot remember where I put somethng after I clean up. I end up so frustrated because if I'd left it just where it was I'd KNOW where to find it!
It worked for me....because the thing was always in the same place and always went back to the same place after use. It was an interesting thing to do....I did it on everything....every scrap of paper.....everything in any drawer....set up files, etc. When I was done, I knew where every single thing was in the house and I then became aware of things that were in disorder outside the house that needed handling. It became very easy to put my hands on anything that I needed in that house.
Just to let you know, it took me about a week to do the whole house and I literally went unconscious doing it, several times...i would be sorting and trying to decide what to do with stuff and I would just fall asleep or go unconscious and wake up a while later and continue on......sometimes it seemed difficult and heavy.....there seemed to be a lot of charge connected to the disorder, and some rather unpleasant memories.
The lady who showed me how to do it helped me to start it and was with me the first day.....it was easier to do it when she was with me.....but she left and never came back, so I had to continue by myself. She got it from some course she was taking in Scientology in '83, which is no longer delivered and which I never took. I think it might have been called the Survival Rundown.
In doing the order vs disorder, the thing was to find a permanent location for everything and not to ever change that permanent location. There were 3 things one could do with each and every item. I had to decide if I wanted to keep the item or throw it away. If I wanted to keep it I had to find a permanent location for it. If I didn't want it, it went in the trash. If I wasn't sure if I wanted to keep it or not, it went into a box in the center of the floor and after I got done sorting the whole room, I had to go back to the box in the center of the room and make a final decision on the stuff in the box.....keep it and find a permanent place for it or throw it away. I started in one corner of the room and worked my way around the room an inch at a time.
The hardest part was cleaning out drawers of papers, which is mainly where I dozed off. I found there were a lot of memories attached to the stuff that I had to wade through and a lot of resistance on putting order into all the stuff in the house. But after I was done I literally knew where everything was without even looking in a drawer, cupboard or closet. I then became aware of how much clutter of one's belongings and environment can effect one's mind and thinking as well as how one's mind or thinking can effect one's environment. I also became aware of how much the memories attached to an object can effect one.
It was an interesting experience. I've noticed over the years when I let it go out and get sloppy about it, the lack of order in my environment also effects me and when I put it back in order again it has a more positive effect on me. I do get lazy, though and then I have to muster up the effort to put things to right again. I do always feel better after I do it. It's kind of like taking a shower and brushing one's teeth....it always feels better after it's done even though one might not want to be bothered doing it. LOL
afaceinthecrowd
Gold Meritorious Patron
I'm keepin' up with all the great stuff that's been posted here over the last few weeks or so but I've just been too tied up with other stuff to post. Reading all y'all's stuff everyday is an important part of my life. Thanks a whole bunch, folks.
Oh, and by the way Carmelo, I just luuuvs fried fish.
Face
Oh, and by the way Carmelo, I just luuuvs fried fish.
Face
Hatshepsut
Crusader
We's got an eye on you too. :wink2:
Ted
Gold Meritorious Patron
Networking and Connections
This is a followup to my search for connectivity and an expansion of ideas from a post a few days ago.
From YouTube: On the web, a new "Friend" may be just a click away, but true connection is harder to find and express. Ze Frank presents a medley of zany Internet toys that require deep participation -- and reward it with something more nourishing. You're invited, if you promise you'll share."
This is an artful and creative use of technology and connections. Twenty minutes in length, be certain to watch to the end. I think there is a treat there that you will enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gSSNHO1dDs
This is a followup to my search for connectivity and an expansion of ideas from a post a few days ago.
From YouTube: On the web, a new "Friend" may be just a click away, but true connection is harder to find and express. Ze Frank presents a medley of zany Internet toys that require deep participation -- and reward it with something more nourishing. You're invited, if you promise you'll share."
This is an artful and creative use of technology and connections. Twenty minutes in length, be certain to watch to the end. I think there is a treat there that you will enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gSSNHO1dDs
FoTi
Crusader
I'm keepin' up with all the great stuff that's been posted here over the last few weeks or so but I've just been too tied up with other stuff to post. Reading all y'all's stuff everyday is an important part of my life. Thanks a whole bunch, folks.
Oh, and by the way Carmelo, I just luuuvs fried fish.
Face
I luv fried fish too!!!
SweetnessandLight
Crusader
Is the media trying to subliminally prepare us for something....
It's always Hollywood that catches on first
Global warming? Drought? :confused2:
Producers bought stock in a Hawaiian shirt factory???
lkwdblds
Crusader
Truer words were never spoken!
Dittos, dittos, dittos, truer words were never spoken! The thing about picking a spot where you KNOW you will find it easily (the most logical of all possible spots) is so classic! Typically a week or two will go by and then someone will ask you to produce that item and you confidently smile and tell them, "No problem". When you get back home or to your office the item is nowhere to be found. You tear your hair out trying to find it, checking 4 or 5 "obvious places" and it isn't in any of them!! What you considered the most obvious place 2 weeks ago is now the the most concealed place in the room. This is extremely frustrating.
BTW Hats, that fishbowl cartoon is so cute and communicates so well. Do you find those things on the internet or scan them or do you draw them yourself?
AMUSING ANECDOTE FROM CCLA DAYS When I was Director of Disbursements at CCLA, I owned a bicycle and among other things, I rode it to the bank to make deposits for CCLA. The winter of 1972 must have been a long cold winter with lots of rain because I locked up my bike in a protected area for several months.
When spring "73 arrived and the weather was delightful and I wanted to resume riding the bike, mainly as a form of exercise and also to save gas and wear and tear on my car. I lived "off campus" in an apartment a block from CCLA on 8th St. and try as I might, I could not find the key to the bike lock. I turned my apartment upside done but to no avail. For about 3 weeks the key did not turn up. I was getting Expanded Dianetics auditing and I decided to postulate finding the key. I postulated that I would have the key in my possession and use the bike no later than Friday morning so I could make my bank run by bike.
Thursday night I laid in bed and I felt that somehow my postulate would work but I had no idea how it would happen.
I woke up Friday morning, ate some cold cereal and took a shower. I started to get dressed at which point I had to leave and go on post at CCLA. It looked as if my postulate was going to go down the tubes.
The weather all winter and in the early spring was very cold and I was wearing long sleeved shirts the whole time. This particular morning, it was bright and sunny and the radio said the temperature would reach into the 80's. I made a decision to wear a short sleeved shirt, a pullover with a pocket in it. You can guess the rest, as I took the pullover off of its hanger and began pulling it over my head, there was a clunk on the floor. I looked down and lying on the floor right in front of my feet was my bike lock key!! It had been in the shirt pocket all winter.
I was elated beyond belief! I attributed this occurance to my auditing and L Ron Hubbard. My postulate had worked and worked beautifully, at the last moment, just as I was ready to go out the door without the key, it magically landed on the floor at my feet and made a loud clunk so that I would see it.
Truth be told, the same thing probably would have happened anyway without any postulate being made. As soon as the weather warmed up, I was going to start wearing my summer shirts again and the key would have fallen. The thing is the hot weather happened to come on the exact deadline I had set for the postulate to work. Coincidence? I'll never know for sure.
Lakey
I seem to be getting worse with age about the order vs disorder. I cannot remember where I put somethng after I clean up. I end up so frustrated because if I'd left it just where it was I'd KNOW where to find it!
Dittos, dittos, dittos, truer words were never spoken! The thing about picking a spot where you KNOW you will find it easily (the most logical of all possible spots) is so classic! Typically a week or two will go by and then someone will ask you to produce that item and you confidently smile and tell them, "No problem". When you get back home or to your office the item is nowhere to be found. You tear your hair out trying to find it, checking 4 or 5 "obvious places" and it isn't in any of them!! What you considered the most obvious place 2 weeks ago is now the the most concealed place in the room. This is extremely frustrating.
BTW Hats, that fishbowl cartoon is so cute and communicates so well. Do you find those things on the internet or scan them or do you draw them yourself?
AMUSING ANECDOTE FROM CCLA DAYS When I was Director of Disbursements at CCLA, I owned a bicycle and among other things, I rode it to the bank to make deposits for CCLA. The winter of 1972 must have been a long cold winter with lots of rain because I locked up my bike in a protected area for several months.
When spring "73 arrived and the weather was delightful and I wanted to resume riding the bike, mainly as a form of exercise and also to save gas and wear and tear on my car. I lived "off campus" in an apartment a block from CCLA on 8th St. and try as I might, I could not find the key to the bike lock. I turned my apartment upside done but to no avail. For about 3 weeks the key did not turn up. I was getting Expanded Dianetics auditing and I decided to postulate finding the key. I postulated that I would have the key in my possession and use the bike no later than Friday morning so I could make my bank run by bike.
Thursday night I laid in bed and I felt that somehow my postulate would work but I had no idea how it would happen.
I woke up Friday morning, ate some cold cereal and took a shower. I started to get dressed at which point I had to leave and go on post at CCLA. It looked as if my postulate was going to go down the tubes.
The weather all winter and in the early spring was very cold and I was wearing long sleeved shirts the whole time. This particular morning, it was bright and sunny and the radio said the temperature would reach into the 80's. I made a decision to wear a short sleeved shirt, a pullover with a pocket in it. You can guess the rest, as I took the pullover off of its hanger and began pulling it over my head, there was a clunk on the floor. I looked down and lying on the floor right in front of my feet was my bike lock key!! It had been in the shirt pocket all winter.
I was elated beyond belief! I attributed this occurance to my auditing and L Ron Hubbard. My postulate had worked and worked beautifully, at the last moment, just as I was ready to go out the door without the key, it magically landed on the floor at my feet and made a loud clunk so that I would see it.
Truth be told, the same thing probably would have happened anyway without any postulate being made. As soon as the weather warmed up, I was going to start wearing my summer shirts again and the key would have fallen. The thing is the hot weather happened to come on the exact deadline I had set for the postulate to work. Coincidence? I'll never know for sure.
Lakey
lkwdblds
Crusader
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
Congrats on 300,000 views!
I started a thread here in San Francisco and put this essay on it, but apparently some sort of cyberfunk prevents views.
If any of you raging deconstructivists want to rip the idea to shreds, lemme see what ya got.
TO DRAW A LINE
by
William Birdwood
In 1973 the Supreme Court of the United States of America with its historic ruling in the case of Roe v. Wade erased the line prohibiting the termination of pregnancy by medically induced miscarriage. That same year our country signed an agreement with Hanoi which left the government in Saigon indefensible and the American League adopted the Designated Hitter Rule. Grievous tragedies are known to come in threes. Baseball remains a beautiful sublime and compelling game, the people of Saigon still call Saigon Saigon, one day those who make maps will as well and thousands of new Americans are born each day.
The National League is not considering taking bats from pitchers’ hands and the politics of Vietnam are in the hands of the Vietnamese but the conflict over our country’s practice of abortion and the treatment of the unborn is alive and active. In the most notable current political initiative, the Obama Administrations seeks a law to require hospitals to offer abortion services. The Catholics have stated flatly they will close their hospitals rather than comply. And this article is not an exercise in objectivity. It is a call to rally to the defense of conscience and not just block an incoming blow but to counter punch.
Our dialogue on abortion is usually characterized in terms of “Pro-Life” and “Pro Choice” and often descends into one side calling the other “Anti-Life” or “Anti-Choice.” In truth our political opinions are spread across a spectrum with four main sections, “Right to Life,” “Pro Life,” Pro Choice” and “Pro Abortion” and perhaps the two in the center are closer to one another than they are to either end. Very many people who have strong sentiments about the sanctity of life have as well so great a love of freedom, such a hatred of tyranny, and so great a compassion, understanding, tolerance and forgiveness for women they are ardent to reduce the rate of abortion but not by demanding the overturning of Roe v. Wade. Many men, myself included, cannot in good conscience ask legislation against a right which is not ours. And then as well, those who are firmly “Pro Choice“ are often deeply touched by the sanctity of life themselves.
Unlike those whose position is not “Pro Choice” but, though never so denominated, is actually “Pro Abortion.” This is so different a stance it could be alleged for those who hold it to call themselves “Pro Choice” is camouflage and a masquerade. My own ears have heard a spokesman state unequivocally, “We want absolute control over procreation.”
No.
Certainly there is a strong consensus humankind must address the undeniable problem of over-population with self-restraint but absolute control over procreation does not belong in the hand of the man I heard speak those words and those who cheered him.
Those who stick to their shillelaghs about “Right to Life” politics appear to be very effectively neutralized. The Equal Rights Amendment failed. America decided it did not wish to eliminate all distinction between genders. However, before it finally stalled it was approved by more than half of our state legislatures and in fact it established broad if incomplete equality between men and women as both the law and custom of the land. So far as I know, the still raised banner of a Right to Life amendment or law has never made it to any ballot. Its supporters are stigmatized by their religious ardor and association, held at bay by Separation of Church and State, the American Press does not stop far short of mockery in its treatment of them and comics who can mix wit with an absence of restraint about them can pack nightclubs with raucous sophisticates.
Though there is some wrong in writing of what may be another soul’s secret I suspect part of the reason for the ineffectuality of “Right to Life” politics is the result of a hidden self-restraint within their ranks. Are there those who must or will put the letter of their faith upon their tongue but keep it from their hand? If so I do not call them hypocrite but friend. An abortion under the most forgivable circumstance is a tragedy and if I could feed five thousand with five loaves and seven fishes my politics would be Right to Life as well. Creator! Ordain a New Physics and Geometry with a flat earth of endless meadows and streams, mountains and seas stretching out endless miles that my politics might match the heart Thy Word has grown within my breast! Science! Open wormholes in space so humankind may set foot upon a thousand verdant earths circling a thousand distant suns that my conscience might play free. I cannot hold to Right to Life in this world as I know it but I would dread to live here if the principle were not espoused.
But in this world as I know it I am thoroughly unconvinced of a necessity to deny the practice of Medicine to those who by conscience will not perform abortion. On the contrary, if there are any of faith who despite not being in a vegetative coma have yet never acted in violation of their own conscience their number must be few. Let us act fiercely and well to keep Acts of Conscience off the Endangered Species List.
So.
Block that and toss this.
Rather than a Right to Life Amendment how about a Pro-Life Amendment?
The United Nations has composed, adopted, and published a Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Am I the only one who noticed it did not state it is a woman’s right to bring a pregnancy to term? I cannot believe I am the only intelligent adult who would call this a human right deeper in the marrow than several other items on the list.
It was long thought our kind rose above animal when we began to use tools but now we know animals as well use tools. Perhaps we became human when first we drew a line.
By what we are, by what abortion is, there was a line. Though that line is now undrawn we are still what we are, abortion is still what it is. Let us measure with keen eye, grasp straightedge with firm hand and, in pencil, with deft and steady stroke, make mark upon the page then turn to our countrymen and women and beseech the Sovereign Ink.
Let us amend the Constitution of the United States of America to read, “A woman’s right to bring a pregnancy to term shall not be abridged.”
Just when this idea of a Pro-Life amendment came to mind escapes me but it stuck fast from its conception. It was at least two or three years before I spoke of it. A couple thousand years ago a controversial rabbi commented on the way swine treat pearls and those who present them and I had already been disabused of the young man’s thought that scripture is largely outmoded.
As it happened I chose well when I finally broached the subject for it was not only treated with respect but I was then told just what I needed to know. I have a friend in Boston who is a lawyer doing pro bono work on behalf of psychiatric patients. I often ate at a bar and grill in the Fenway where he often stopped in the evening and we had a running dialogue for years. He gave a very strong response to the idea locking his gaze on my own. After a timeless moment he looked off and weighed upon it, turned back to me and said, “You’d have to have a case [when the right was abridged].”
‘Nuff said.
Of course it happens every day in private. I had opportunity once to counsel a young woman who was being pressured by here boyfriend to get an abortion she did not want. The look on her face and sound of her voice when she said, “I have very strong feelings about it,” are unforgettable. I don’t recall just when the idea came to me but it was she who inspired it. Would that I could have sprouted angel wings from my back to enfold her. Short of that it would be comforting to know every young woman in her position was taught in grammar school the Law of her Nation stands with her.
This vignette will never be a case at law.
However there was a report this spring in The Boston Globe fulfilling the requirement prima facie. An article related that several American women, including married women, serving in Iraq had been ordered to have abortions.
This would be a lawful order. Yes, a military commander may order a medical action for a subordinate. Many a brave and wounded soldier hot to stand and fight has been ordered from the battlefield to the MASH unit. The pro-abortion forces have been insistent on treating an abortion as a medical procedure no different than setting a broken bone or removing a splinter, have in fact pressed the depredations of Orwellian Newspeak on the language of abortion.
And.
No line is drawn.
Nowhere in law is there a word affirming a woman’s right to her unborn child, an absence now made glaring.
Our Constitution is ours. Our charter seats national sovereignty in the people. It is in our power to raise this question, to say here is a place to draw a line and to appeal to our fellow citizens enshrine it in our Law.
The process of doing so could be a very healing and restorative process. The debate over abortion in our country has been divisive and fierce. This contest will continue even if this initiative were to be fully successful. Those who are very firm in seeking the overturn of Roe v. Wade will not be folding their tents. Some will likely take the position they prefer no line to a line they believe misplaced. Others will recognize that if Oregon declares war on California and mobilizes forces which occupy Redding, California would be wise to establish a firm defensive line north of Sacramento. It seems sort of a shame scripture advises against schadenfreude because it would seem the Pro-Abortion people will be sort of funny looking in their attempts to oppose it. But the Pro-Life and Pro-Choice who are probably the great bulk of the population should be able to warmly unite in support of an action both will find soothing and stabilizing.
For my own part I believe the absence of a line on abortion is subtly but greatly disorienting and that to draw a new line would create a benchmark against which we can measure our efforts to reduce the staggering rate of this tragedy and most especially a barrier to prevent us from falling into an abyss.
Liberty, sweet and fair, may recline on purple velveteen savoring petit fours and Beaujolais in her palazzo built in Yes only if she shows deference to Freedom espoused to Responsibility in their simple abode on the bedrock of No.
Let us draw this line.
William O. Birdwood
San Francisco, California
August 14, 2010
I started a thread here in San Francisco and put this essay on it, but apparently some sort of cyberfunk prevents views.
If any of you raging deconstructivists want to rip the idea to shreds, lemme see what ya got.
TO DRAW A LINE
by
William Birdwood
In 1973 the Supreme Court of the United States of America with its historic ruling in the case of Roe v. Wade erased the line prohibiting the termination of pregnancy by medically induced miscarriage. That same year our country signed an agreement with Hanoi which left the government in Saigon indefensible and the American League adopted the Designated Hitter Rule. Grievous tragedies are known to come in threes. Baseball remains a beautiful sublime and compelling game, the people of Saigon still call Saigon Saigon, one day those who make maps will as well and thousands of new Americans are born each day.
The National League is not considering taking bats from pitchers’ hands and the politics of Vietnam are in the hands of the Vietnamese but the conflict over our country’s practice of abortion and the treatment of the unborn is alive and active. In the most notable current political initiative, the Obama Administrations seeks a law to require hospitals to offer abortion services. The Catholics have stated flatly they will close their hospitals rather than comply. And this article is not an exercise in objectivity. It is a call to rally to the defense of conscience and not just block an incoming blow but to counter punch.
Our dialogue on abortion is usually characterized in terms of “Pro-Life” and “Pro Choice” and often descends into one side calling the other “Anti-Life” or “Anti-Choice.” In truth our political opinions are spread across a spectrum with four main sections, “Right to Life,” “Pro Life,” Pro Choice” and “Pro Abortion” and perhaps the two in the center are closer to one another than they are to either end. Very many people who have strong sentiments about the sanctity of life have as well so great a love of freedom, such a hatred of tyranny, and so great a compassion, understanding, tolerance and forgiveness for women they are ardent to reduce the rate of abortion but not by demanding the overturning of Roe v. Wade. Many men, myself included, cannot in good conscience ask legislation against a right which is not ours. And then as well, those who are firmly “Pro Choice“ are often deeply touched by the sanctity of life themselves.
Unlike those whose position is not “Pro Choice” but, though never so denominated, is actually “Pro Abortion.” This is so different a stance it could be alleged for those who hold it to call themselves “Pro Choice” is camouflage and a masquerade. My own ears have heard a spokesman state unequivocally, “We want absolute control over procreation.”
No.
Certainly there is a strong consensus humankind must address the undeniable problem of over-population with self-restraint but absolute control over procreation does not belong in the hand of the man I heard speak those words and those who cheered him.
Those who stick to their shillelaghs about “Right to Life” politics appear to be very effectively neutralized. The Equal Rights Amendment failed. America decided it did not wish to eliminate all distinction between genders. However, before it finally stalled it was approved by more than half of our state legislatures and in fact it established broad if incomplete equality between men and women as both the law and custom of the land. So far as I know, the still raised banner of a Right to Life amendment or law has never made it to any ballot. Its supporters are stigmatized by their religious ardor and association, held at bay by Separation of Church and State, the American Press does not stop far short of mockery in its treatment of them and comics who can mix wit with an absence of restraint about them can pack nightclubs with raucous sophisticates.
Though there is some wrong in writing of what may be another soul’s secret I suspect part of the reason for the ineffectuality of “Right to Life” politics is the result of a hidden self-restraint within their ranks. Are there those who must or will put the letter of their faith upon their tongue but keep it from their hand? If so I do not call them hypocrite but friend. An abortion under the most forgivable circumstance is a tragedy and if I could feed five thousand with five loaves and seven fishes my politics would be Right to Life as well. Creator! Ordain a New Physics and Geometry with a flat earth of endless meadows and streams, mountains and seas stretching out endless miles that my politics might match the heart Thy Word has grown within my breast! Science! Open wormholes in space so humankind may set foot upon a thousand verdant earths circling a thousand distant suns that my conscience might play free. I cannot hold to Right to Life in this world as I know it but I would dread to live here if the principle were not espoused.
But in this world as I know it I am thoroughly unconvinced of a necessity to deny the practice of Medicine to those who by conscience will not perform abortion. On the contrary, if there are any of faith who despite not being in a vegetative coma have yet never acted in violation of their own conscience their number must be few. Let us act fiercely and well to keep Acts of Conscience off the Endangered Species List.
So.
Block that and toss this.
Rather than a Right to Life Amendment how about a Pro-Life Amendment?
The United Nations has composed, adopted, and published a Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Am I the only one who noticed it did not state it is a woman’s right to bring a pregnancy to term? I cannot believe I am the only intelligent adult who would call this a human right deeper in the marrow than several other items on the list.
It was long thought our kind rose above animal when we began to use tools but now we know animals as well use tools. Perhaps we became human when first we drew a line.
By what we are, by what abortion is, there was a line. Though that line is now undrawn we are still what we are, abortion is still what it is. Let us measure with keen eye, grasp straightedge with firm hand and, in pencil, with deft and steady stroke, make mark upon the page then turn to our countrymen and women and beseech the Sovereign Ink.
Let us amend the Constitution of the United States of America to read, “A woman’s right to bring a pregnancy to term shall not be abridged.”
Just when this idea of a Pro-Life amendment came to mind escapes me but it stuck fast from its conception. It was at least two or three years before I spoke of it. A couple thousand years ago a controversial rabbi commented on the way swine treat pearls and those who present them and I had already been disabused of the young man’s thought that scripture is largely outmoded.
As it happened I chose well when I finally broached the subject for it was not only treated with respect but I was then told just what I needed to know. I have a friend in Boston who is a lawyer doing pro bono work on behalf of psychiatric patients. I often ate at a bar and grill in the Fenway where he often stopped in the evening and we had a running dialogue for years. He gave a very strong response to the idea locking his gaze on my own. After a timeless moment he looked off and weighed upon it, turned back to me and said, “You’d have to have a case [when the right was abridged].”
‘Nuff said.
Of course it happens every day in private. I had opportunity once to counsel a young woman who was being pressured by here boyfriend to get an abortion she did not want. The look on her face and sound of her voice when she said, “I have very strong feelings about it,” are unforgettable. I don’t recall just when the idea came to me but it was she who inspired it. Would that I could have sprouted angel wings from my back to enfold her. Short of that it would be comforting to know every young woman in her position was taught in grammar school the Law of her Nation stands with her.
This vignette will never be a case at law.
However there was a report this spring in The Boston Globe fulfilling the requirement prima facie. An article related that several American women, including married women, serving in Iraq had been ordered to have abortions.
This would be a lawful order. Yes, a military commander may order a medical action for a subordinate. Many a brave and wounded soldier hot to stand and fight has been ordered from the battlefield to the MASH unit. The pro-abortion forces have been insistent on treating an abortion as a medical procedure no different than setting a broken bone or removing a splinter, have in fact pressed the depredations of Orwellian Newspeak on the language of abortion.
And.
No line is drawn.
Nowhere in law is there a word affirming a woman’s right to her unborn child, an absence now made glaring.
Our Constitution is ours. Our charter seats national sovereignty in the people. It is in our power to raise this question, to say here is a place to draw a line and to appeal to our fellow citizens enshrine it in our Law.
The process of doing so could be a very healing and restorative process. The debate over abortion in our country has been divisive and fierce. This contest will continue even if this initiative were to be fully successful. Those who are very firm in seeking the overturn of Roe v. Wade will not be folding their tents. Some will likely take the position they prefer no line to a line they believe misplaced. Others will recognize that if Oregon declares war on California and mobilizes forces which occupy Redding, California would be wise to establish a firm defensive line north of Sacramento. It seems sort of a shame scripture advises against schadenfreude because it would seem the Pro-Abortion people will be sort of funny looking in their attempts to oppose it. But the Pro-Life and Pro-Choice who are probably the great bulk of the population should be able to warmly unite in support of an action both will find soothing and stabilizing.
For my own part I believe the absence of a line on abortion is subtly but greatly disorienting and that to draw a new line would create a benchmark against which we can measure our efforts to reduce the staggering rate of this tragedy and most especially a barrier to prevent us from falling into an abyss.
Liberty, sweet and fair, may recline on purple velveteen savoring petit fours and Beaujolais in her palazzo built in Yes only if she shows deference to Freedom espoused to Responsibility in their simple abode on the bedrock of No.
Let us draw this line.
William O. Birdwood
San Francisco, California
August 14, 2010
lkwdblds
Crusader
Thanks for your tour de force post!!
Great to have you post here, William!!
It appears that you have pondered a great deal about this issue and looked at it from all sides. You know much more about it than I do!
It seems to me that the issue boils down to 3 basic major questions. First is the unborn fetus a viable spiritual being or just a collections of cells at the time of abortion? This question is paramount because it determines whether murder or some lower harmonic thereof, is being committed.
The next question is whether the Federal Government should be involved in this issue. The third issue is the right for a woman to do whatever she wants with her own body.
On question #1, that is where uncertainty lies with many people while religious people are positive in one sense and others are equally certain that no form or harmonic of murder is being committed. This is really the crux of the issue. When does the spirit or soul enter and take command of the organism?
My own opinion is that the spirit does not assume control until shortly before birth. That and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee. We do know that beings have recordings of pre natal incidents well before birth. I believe this feeling is held by traditional medicine including psychiatry and not just be Hubbard or New Age and Eastern religions. Still these, memories may only be cellular recordings and not spiritual. I don't know so I won't comment anymore.
On the right of the Federal Government to rule over abortion decisions, I do not feel that this is one of the areas which the Federal Gorvernment should be involved with. I believe that it is a states rights issue, as it was before Roe vs. Wade and I think that it should remain a states rights issue. The law really had to be stretched beyond acceptable limits to rule that this is a Federal matter. The Founders of this country, who wrote the constitution probably turned over in their graves when this decision was made.
On the woman's rights thing, men can only have an opinion but as you say, men should not be deciding that matter for women. My opinion is that women must have control over what happens with their own bodies. The one thing which would limit them the way I see it, which again is just my uninformed opinion, is that the fetus is not a part of the woman's body but is a separate organism existing inside the woman's body. There again, that is where the debate is going to center.
So once again in points #1 and #3 it boils down to whether a viable and nascent spiritual being does exist at the time of the abortion. Not too many pro choice adherents would go along with pro choice if they knew that there was a real life there which was being snuffed out but pro choice people feel that only an unwanted collection of cells is being destroyed.
That brings up the final point. If the woman's health is in jeopardy in any way, the woman must be given the right to choose abortion in all cases. Tthat is my 2 cents. I am not an authority but did want to make some common sense contribution just to thank William for posting here.
Lakey
Great to have you post here, William!!
It appears that you have pondered a great deal about this issue and looked at it from all sides. You know much more about it than I do!
It seems to me that the issue boils down to 3 basic major questions. First is the unborn fetus a viable spiritual being or just a collections of cells at the time of abortion? This question is paramount because it determines whether murder or some lower harmonic thereof, is being committed.
The next question is whether the Federal Government should be involved in this issue. The third issue is the right for a woman to do whatever she wants with her own body.
On question #1, that is where uncertainty lies with many people while religious people are positive in one sense and others are equally certain that no form or harmonic of murder is being committed. This is really the crux of the issue. When does the spirit or soul enter and take command of the organism?
My own opinion is that the spirit does not assume control until shortly before birth. That and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee. We do know that beings have recordings of pre natal incidents well before birth. I believe this feeling is held by traditional medicine including psychiatry and not just be Hubbard or New Age and Eastern religions. Still these, memories may only be cellular recordings and not spiritual. I don't know so I won't comment anymore.
On the right of the Federal Government to rule over abortion decisions, I do not feel that this is one of the areas which the Federal Gorvernment should be involved with. I believe that it is a states rights issue, as it was before Roe vs. Wade and I think that it should remain a states rights issue. The law really had to be stretched beyond acceptable limits to rule that this is a Federal matter. The Founders of this country, who wrote the constitution probably turned over in their graves when this decision was made.
On the woman's rights thing, men can only have an opinion but as you say, men should not be deciding that matter for women. My opinion is that women must have control over what happens with their own bodies. The one thing which would limit them the way I see it, which again is just my uninformed opinion, is that the fetus is not a part of the woman's body but is a separate organism existing inside the woman's body. There again, that is where the debate is going to center.
So once again in points #1 and #3 it boils down to whether a viable and nascent spiritual being does exist at the time of the abortion. Not too many pro choice adherents would go along with pro choice if they knew that there was a real life there which was being snuffed out but pro choice people feel that only an unwanted collection of cells is being destroyed.
That brings up the final point. If the woman's health is in jeopardy in any way, the woman must be given the right to choose abortion in all cases. Tthat is my 2 cents. I am not an authority but did want to make some common sense contribution just to thank William for posting here.
Lakey
RogerB
Crusader
Very nice, FoTi,
I can see why this would put you at cause over your environment. Very nice
Rog
Mark A. Baker
Sponsor
No. She already has that right through her right of privacy.
The fact is males & females are not the same. They do not have the same needs, nor do they face the same risks. The society has been faced with a legal conundrum of seeking to establish 'effective equality' between the sexes for legal purposes while maintaining traditional social distinctions customary to the society. Frankly, the problem is untenable as posed. It can not be 'solved' through legislation. At best only a 'workable' if inconsistent system can be implemented, as is presently the case.
Similarly, the question with regard to the hospitals is whether a woman desirous of SAFE MEDICAL treatment can be denied that treatment because the ONLY AVAILABLE MEDICAL FACILITY capable of performing such treatment refuses on religious grounds. As a matter of economics, religious hospitals are predominant in much of the country as they are subsidized by their respective religions. Non-religious hospitals can rarely compete economically in rural areas due to the economic disadvantages they face. As a result women throughout much of the country have their medical choices effectively limited due to the restrictive policies of particular religions, whether or not the woman is a member of that religion.
The simplest solution is to require that any medical facility be prepared to perform any lawful medical treatments without regard to specific religious affiliations. Notice that this requirement does NOT extend to licensed medical practitioners, only to the medical institutions. A medical practitioner retains the right to refuse to perform any lawful medical procedure with which she herself considers ethically unsuitable.
If a church does not wish to provide necessary medical treatments to the public of an area then they clearly have little interest in providing for the needed medical & hospital services of a region, either as a charity or otherwise. The legal requirement that a medical facility allow for the provision of all legal medical procedures is not an undue burden as these are medical facilities open to the public, and furthermore it serves as a great benefit to the community as a whole. Making such assessments is precisely what governing is about.
Mark A. Baker
lkwdblds
Crusader
Some Very powerful arguments!
Thank you MAB. Outstanding post! Very powerful and logical arguments. I learned a lot by reading this.
Thank you MAB. Outstanding post! Very powerful and logical arguments. I learned a lot by reading this.
SweetnessandLight
Crusader
Aw, Lakey, yer subconscious mind is yer friend!
I make postulates like this all the time...although not so much about lost stuff. I think I remember reading that it especially works if you do it just before you fall asleep, and then your subconscious mind goes figure...figure...figure...figure *bing* "I have the answer!" Which then becomes apparent to you the next day when you are awake. I know a theoretical physics professor who does this when he is stuck on a problem.
Anybody else have experience with this?
Yes, you would have found the key the next time you wore the shirt, but that you had the impulse to wear that shirt with the key in the pocket the next morning when you really wanted the key was the work of your subconscious mind, which remembered the last place you put it, methinks!
That's a cool story!
FoTi
Crusader
A woman's body is the doorway to another being entering into the game of life on planet earth. I think each woman has the responsibility of deciding if that door should be opened and the being allowed to enter the game or if it would be more detrimental for that being to come into the game via her and might be better for the being to enter through another doorway.
Ending a pregnancy is a tough issue. I think it is primarily up to the individual woman. I think she is the one, who has to make the final decision after exploring all possibilities of how either continuing the pregnancy or not will affect her, her mate, her family and the future of the child if it is born. People have many different reasons for terminating a pregnancy or not. Every woman has to live with the decision she has made and either way it's not an easy decision to make. I don't think it's the govt's business to dictate to a woman in this issue.
My opinion is abortion should never be forced on a woman. I also feel that her decision to take that route, if she chooses to do so, with safe medical procedures should not be taken away from her either. In living life, a person has to live with their own conscience - not somebody elses..... and they will live with this decision, which ever way they choose, for the rest of their life.
Ending a pregnancy is a tough issue. I think it is primarily up to the individual woman. I think she is the one, who has to make the final decision after exploring all possibilities of how either continuing the pregnancy or not will affect her, her mate, her family and the future of the child if it is born. People have many different reasons for terminating a pregnancy or not. Every woman has to live with the decision she has made and either way it's not an easy decision to make. I don't think it's the govt's business to dictate to a woman in this issue.
My opinion is abortion should never be forced on a woman. I also feel that her decision to take that route, if she chooses to do so, with safe medical procedures should not be taken away from her either. In living life, a person has to live with their own conscience - not somebody elses..... and they will live with this decision, which ever way they choose, for the rest of their life.
FoTi
Crusader
Aw, Lakey, yer subconscious mind is yer friend!
I make postulates like this all the time...although not so much about lost stuff. I think I remember reading that it especially works if you do it just before you fall asleep, and then your subconscious mind goes figure...figure...figure...figure *bing* "I have the answer!" Which then becomes apparent to you the next day when you are awake. I know a theoretical physics professor who does this when he is stuck on a problem.
Anybody else have experience with this?
Yes, you would have found the key the next time you wore the shirt, but that you had the impulse to wear that shirt with the key in the pocket the next morning when you really wanted the key was the work of your subconscious mind, which remembered the last place you put it, methinks!
That's a cool story!
My father was very successful in business and I once asked him how he did it. He told me that when he went to bed at night he would take whatever problem he needed to solve and turn it over to a higher power before he went to sleep. In the morning he would wake up with the answer.
I tried it....it never worked for me. :confused2:
RogerB
Crusader
Yes, well, at the risk of offending the religious and the politically correct among us . . . could it be that your father, being male was talking to a presumed male God?
It has often interested be; and this since I first looked at the religion thing some 60 years ago, that men and women actually consider their relationships with/to God differently. Of course, that's probably because the Bible as passed down to us was written my (idiot) males who positioned women as secondary to males
. . . I have often reflected on what an idiotically, destructive proposition that notion of women being secondary to males is. Personally, I don't think it takes much smarts or observational powers to see that we are actually equal partners in this game of life; if with slightly different roles.
RogerB
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
read more closely
yes, we all normally think of this as a right. but we now have an actual case where it was violated. and no, if the obama initiative is made law, the catholics will close their hospitals. they and i refuse to consider abortion the moral equivalent of removing a splinter from a thumb.
yes, we all normally think of this as a right. but we now have an actual case where it was violated. and no, if the obama initiative is made law, the catholics will close their hospitals. they and i refuse to consider abortion the moral equivalent of removing a splinter from a thumb.
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