The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[FoTi]

FoTi,

Well, OK.

I'm not in a position to, and nor would I, counter or invalidate your perception on this.

Later when I get to addressing this subject in full, I'll be addressing the point that (in my view) we retain knowledge of our experiences . . . now, it may get variously, forgotten, occluded or buried . . . but knowledge is knowledge, and it can be recovered.

Processing changes the condition of the record of our experiences . . . it changes such from negative life-force to positive-life force . . . . you do not lose the life-force

And knowledge is positive life-force.

Rog

No, I didn't lose the life-force. I always seemed to end up with more of that. I just lost the memory, like when I delete stuff from my computer. But, I don't know what knowledge I got out of blowing that memory. It was a relief that the negative aspect wasn't there anymore, when it would totally disappear and I didn't even know what we had been running, and all I knew was whatever it was didn't exist any longer. It was usually quite a surprise, and usually accompanied by a change in perceptions.....is that the knowledge that you are speaking of?

I look forward to your future post on this subject.

Also, you had mentioned a while back, somewhere that you were going to address the subject of "fear". Did you ever do that? Did I miss it?

Looking forward to more of your goodies re: life.

 

[FoTi]

Piss In My P nts

Yes, I know what you meant.

 

[paradox]

....

I took on a large task on the Sharone thread. There are two main factions on that thread. One faction consists of Candy, Terril, Leon, MAB and myself and the other faction, much larger, consists of Helluva, Veda, Alanzo, Toady, Sharone, Markus, Gottabrain, ItoldyouIwastrouble, Infine, Mr. Nobody,DB and others.

....

Lakey

"We will not speculate here on why this was so or how I came to rise above the bank. We are dealing only in facts and the above is a fact - the group left to its own devices would not have evolved the Internet but with wild dramatizations of the bank called "new ideas" would have wiped it out. Supporting this is the fact that man has never before evolved workable Message Board posting technology and emphasizing it is the vicious technology he *did* evolve - poison-pen letters, protest marching, posting under anonymous pseudonyms etc., ad infinitum.

So realize that we have climbed out of the mud by whatever good luck and good sense, and *refuse* to sink back into it again. See that Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten above are ruthlessly followed and we will never be stopped. Relax the, get reasonable about it and we will perish.

So far, while keeping myself in complete communication with all suggestions, I have not failed on Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten in areas I could supervise closely. But it's not good enough for just myself and a few others to work at this."
​

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvj_acGhbPk

​

 

[paradox]

....

You were there, are you saying that the commitee gave Roger a total carte blanche as to what he could say and how far he could go in speaking negatively about LRH? If you say it is so, then I will accept that. If it is so, it doesn't reflect very well on Freezone leadership.

....

You obviously missed the point where Roger stated very clearly that his video had been edited to remove his negative comments about the hubbard.



Here's yer sign ... er ... shirt.

​

 

[Mark A. Baker]

... It's really no different from the mugger I once confronted. I caught him with his hand in my purse and I raised HELL. I was not low key. And he was absolutely furious with me. "No need to make a federal case out of it", quoth he. And when I continued to berate him, telling the crowd around me what he had done, he threatened to beat me up. But if he hadn't initiated things by committing a criminal act, that exchange that was so distasteful to him would never have taken place. ...

Sounds more like a pickpocket than a mugger. Afterall, the potential for mugging only became a threat after you responded with an humiliating public denunciation of his choice of avocation.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Piss In My P nts

I'd rather not, thank you for asking.


Mark A. Baker

 

[RogerB]

No, I didn't lose the life-force. I always seemed to end up with more of that. I just lost the memory, like when I delete stuff from my computer. But, I don't know what knowledge I got out of blowing that memory. It was a relief that the negative aspect wasn't there anymore, when it would totally disappear and I didn't even know what we had been running, and all I knew was whatever it was didn't exist any longer. It was usually quite a surprise, and usually accompanied by a change in perceptions.....is that the knowledge that you are speaking of?

I look forward to your future post on this subject.

Also, you had mentioned a while back, somewhere that you were going to address the subject of "fear". Did you ever do that? Did I miss it?

Looking forward to more of your goodies re: life.

Not written on fear yet . . . it's in my stack of things to write on. Hang in there, we'll get to it.

R

 

[FoTi]

I'd rather not, thank you for asking.


Mark A. Baker

Asking what?

 

[Dilettante]

thanks Dil!

BTW what did you think of the Freezone Free For All or Pierre and Mrs.'s revenge thread?

Hi Carmelo,
So nice of you to invite me aboard! I enjoyed parts of the snit fit over Eithers and blackmail. Can't say I understand much of it but I gather the kerfluffle is about practicing outside of the church? My best reason for leaving the "church" in the first place was suppressed communication and enforcing the only "tech" that's correct. I do abhore one espousing their point of view as superior to another by way of personal attacks. Using logic, humor, documentation and intelligence to bash someone is downright ENTERTAINING.(hi Alonzo..........)
My heart goes out to Lakey and Candy. I welcome their experience and input here as well as Alonzo, Sharon and you among others. Many others. The bickering is inevitable I guess.
These snits are essentially posted on a world wide stage, I think they should be well crafted and intelligent if not polite.
Dil

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Not written on fear yet . . . it's in my stack of things to write on. Hang in there, we'll get to it.

R

:surprise1:


Ooooh, thank-you Roger ... I can hardly wait!​

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Hi Carmelo,
So nice of you to invite me aboard! I enjoyed parts of the snit fit over Eithers and blackmail. Can't say I understand much of it but I gather the kerfluffle is about practicing outside of the church? ...

As with apparently most fights among ex's, it's mostly about 'wounded egos' and 'know best'. Some people expect to be lionized based on 'who' they were when they were in the church or the 'position' they have taken since leaving.


Mark A. Baker

 

[FoTi]

:surprise1:


Ooooh, thank-you Roger ... I can hardly wait!​

Forum Rules

1. Treat others with respect.
You are to respect every other user on the board despite any personal, religious and political differences. The following will not be tolerated:
Personal insults
Ad hominems

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Forum Rules

1. Treat others with respect.
You are to respect every other user on the board despite any personal, religious and political differences. The following will not be tolerated:
Personal insults
Ad hominems

​

 

[lkwdblds]

You obviously missed the point where Roger stated very clearly that his video had been edited to remove his negative comments about the hubbard.



Here's yer sign ... er ... shirt.

.....Image snipped out...................................

I did miss that point, it is useful knowledge that I need to know and I thank you for calling it to my attention. Nevertheless, it only reinforces my claim that if a well known person appears as the keynote speaker for an Organization, his presence there has some promotional value to the Organization and usually will lead to higher attendance at the lectures, heavier viewing of the videos than with a lesser known speaker, and more income and better "brand recognition" for that Organization.

Once again I refer to the initial negotiations between the Organization and its keynote speaker. The Organization can afford to give carte blanche to the speaker if the Organization gets agreement from the speaker that they can edit the videos in any manner they see fit. So you see, nothing of this sort has any effect on my initial comment that the speaker's presence has promotional value for the Organization. If the Organization has carte blanche to edit as they see fit then further agreements are not needed.
Lakey

 

[degraded being]

Hi Carmelo,
So nice of you to invite me aboard! I enjoyed parts of the snit fit over Eithers and blackmail. Can't say I understand much of it but I gather the kerfluffle is about practicing outside of the church? My best reason for leaving the "church" in the first place was suppressed communication and enforcing the only "tech" that's correct. I do abhore one espousing their point of view as superior to another by way of personal attacks. Using logic, humor, documentation and intelligence to bash someone is downright ENTERTAINING.(hi Alonzo..........)
My heart goes out to Lakey and Candy. I welcome their experience and input here as well as Alonzo, Sharon and you among others. Many others. The bickering is inevitable I guess.
These snits are essentially posted on a world wide stage, I think they should be well crafted and intelligent if not polite.
Dil

When you call them "snits" they sound quaint and rather charming.

Sam and Sally and Sue and Sid,
couldn't resist a snotty snit.
They snitted in the morning
they snitted at night,
getting snottier and snottier,
and their anuses more tight.
They poked and they prodded
and they used all they had,
little children and afflictions...
it was shockingly bad.
The onlookers were aghast
at seeing such shit
but t'was nothing to fear
but a snotty snit.

 

[Dilettante]

DB!



Failure to Communicate....

http://youtu.be/VWiVtoRAgCo

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

if anyone would like to contribute an article to IVy

From: [email protected]
Subject: [IVy-subs-1] IVY NEWS
Date: April 9, 2011 3:34:03 PM PDT
To: [email protected]
Reply-To: [email protected]

** ivy-subscribers-1
Relaying positive communication amongst participants since January 1997
**
--




Dear Friends,


so much to say and soooo little time )

In a nutshell: I will from now on take on the job of
Web IVy manager.

I am NOT an editor, just juggling with bits and bytes -
uploading the articles that you creative spirits
bring forth. Please do your own proofreading, or better,
have it done by someone else - proofreading a self-written
text is not ideal, I know this from my own writings.

I am not going to change IVy in style or content, and
I will upload any article that is sent to me for the Web
IVy website, but I reserve the right to reject articles
that I find offensive in any way, or that are written
so badly that they would be a disgrace for the website.
Not that we had any such articles in the past - this
is just a general information )

Now the first thing to do in Web IVy is to change the e-mail
address, as Yahoo Mail is too awfully clumsy to handle,
at least for a person who is used to the sophisticated
features of Forté Agent.

So, please, send groundbreaking articles, enthusiastic
feedback, brilliant ideas and (hopefully) a little money to
[email protected] - I will still handle the old Ivy mailbox
but cannot promise any speed of particle flow there.

For those of you who have written to the old IVy
mailbox and didn't get a reply: I am sorry. I have
moved house - actually I moved the last trailer load
this very day -, and this was going over months, an
absolutely major action, believe me! - Done now.
From tomorrow on, you compete only with farming,
sessions, writing, and a construction site (pioneer
style)... so the Web IVy services should be unbelievably
fast from now on!

Regarding money: Web IVy is basically a free website,
but bills have to be paid like everywhere else in the
world, so if you have an extra dollar or two, I will be
happy about your contribution. PayPal to [email protected].

I will from now on read the IVy list and also the
other FZ mailing lists with more pointed attention,
to make sure that texts that should be saved do not
get lost. Be prepared to be asked by me "OK to publish?"
when you have written something especially ingenious!

)

Web IVy will be searchable by the search machines on the
internet, so any text that lands there will be found by
people who look for articles in the area of the article's
topic. Our chance to contribute our part to the spiritual
seekers' database in the internet "cloud"!

I am very much looking forward to hearing, or better,
to reading from you!



All the best,

Heidrun Beer

Web IVy Manager
http://www.ivymag.org/WebIVy

**
Originations, comments, to the list, send to [email protected]
Home Page: http://www.ivymag.org with extensive links to FZ!
**

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Nevertheless, it only reinforces my claim that if a well known person appears as the keynote speaker for an Organization, his presence there has some promotional value to the Organization and usually will lead to higher attendance at the lectures, heavier viewing of the videos than with a lesser known speaker, and more income and better "brand recognition" for that Organization.

Once again I refer to the initial negotiations between the Organization and its keynote speaker. The Organization can afford to give carte blanche to the speaker if the Organization gets agreement from the speaker that they can edit the videos in any manner they see fit. So you see, nothing of this sort has any effect on my initial comment that the speaker's presence has promotional value for the Organization. If the Organization has carte blanche to edit as they see fit then further agreements are not needed.
Lakey

There was no Organization which put on a convention. It was a simple gathering of people who were in some degree interested in the subject of scientology held at the invitation of one person, Aida Thomas.

Aida decided to host a convention in 2009 and did so. Some of her family & friends gave her some assistance. It proved to be a wonderfully successful event thanks to Aida's planning and the abilities of her guest speakers, among them, Roger.

The conventions are a community tradition which was started about a decade ago by Rey Robles. He hosted them on his own with the assistance of his family for several years as a way of promoting cross-communication among those people interested in pursuing scientology tech outside the church. For 2009 Rey decided not to do so and Aida volunteered to undertake one for that year.

There wasn't and isn't any g@dd@mn Organization. Do you UNDERSTAND that yet?

Learn to read and comprehend the english language. You can be amazingly obtuse for someone who claims to have a background in mathematics & physics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toHlMD50eYY

Mark A. Baker

 

[lkwdblds]

There was no Organization which put on a convention. It was a simple gathering of people who were in some degree interested in the subject of scientology held at the invitation of one person, Aida Thomas.

Aida decided to host a convention in 2009 and did so. Some of her family & friends gave her some assistance. It proved to be a wonderfully successful event thanks to Aida's planning and the abilities of her guest speakers, among them, Roger.

The conventions are a community tradition which was started about a decade ago by Rey Robles. He hosted them on his own with the assistance of his family for several years as a way of promoting cross-communication among those people interested in pursuing scientology tech outside the church. For 2009 Rey decided not to do so and Aida volunteered to undertake one for that year.

There wasn't and isn't any g@dd@mn Organization. Do you UNDERSTAND that yet?

Learn to read and comprehend the english language. You can be amazingly obtuse for someone who claims to have a background in mathematics & physics.

........<snipped the video out to save space>.......

Mark A. Baker

Thanks for filling me in on the history of the Freezone conventions. I believe that Ray Robles is putting on the 2011 convention.

It is helpful to know that there was no committee in 2009 or the prior years. i don't know how you would expect me to know that. Its all brand new news to me in your above post. I thank you for posting it. Back in 2009, I was pretty new on ESMB and just learning the ropes. I did not attend the conventioin nor read anything about it. I was never in the Freezone. I did subscribe to IFACHAT but dropped it because it was too mild for my tastes. In 2010, I watched 3 or 4 of Roger's videos made for that convention.

My point still remains unaffected by this new information. The key point now is that if the Person (not the committee) who put on the 2009 Freezone Convention had the right to edit the keynote speaker's videos, which she obviously did, then the Freezone still gained promotional value by having a well known figure speak at their 2009 Convention.

Essentially, every word in my quoted post remains valid. All one has to do is to replace the words "Freezone Committe" with the word "Aida" and the entire post is updated and is correct as it stands.

So far tonight, I learned newly that Roger's posts were edited to remove some negative comments about LRH and that there was no Committee but that Aida ran the show as an individual, also that Ray Robles had started the annual conventions, about 8 years earlier. It is good to learn all this history and structural background but none of these things change in the slightest way the point which I was making in my original post.

I don't know why it is so hard for certain people to see this. I make a comment which is sound. An Organization gains promotional value if they retain a well known speaker as their keynote speaker. I stand by that. A lot of new info has been introduced into the mix but none of it has anything to do with changing my premise. Maybe, since there was no committee, I should replace the word "Organization" with "Association" or "The Freezone Association" Consider it done.

"An Association gains promotional value if they retain a well known speaker as their keynote speaker." "This is guaranteed if the head of the Association has carte blanche when it comes to editing the keynote speaker's videos."

This is all that I am saying. Many interesting facts concerning the Association involved have been brought to light which are brand new to me. I am appreciative of being filled in on these things but they in no way have anything whatever to do with my original assertion.

The three lines directly above in bold type are all that I am saying. I stand behind those comments and believe that they are 100% true. I don't want to debate it any more. That is my opinion. I have the right to it and I believe it is 100% correct.
Thank you very much. Lakey

 

[Mark A. Baker]

... So far tonight, I learned newly that Roger's posts were edited to remove some negative comments about LRH ...

Aida recorded all the speeches and edited them for the internet, especially those that went to youtube which typically require more extensive editing due to constraints. I am unfamiliar with what she eventually cut or why. She did comment about wanting to prune the 'dead air' out of all of the recordings. During the course of the conference in all of the talks there were periods where not much was actually happening in front of the camera or microphone. None of that 'dead air' was ultimately needed for the final videos. How much made it in ...???

Roger's talk was not exactly laced with cutting remarks about LRH. He spoke about matters of tech, not LRH. Such references as he made to LRH were substantially as they related to differences between his, Alan's, & Roger's respective views on various aspects of technical points. This was not exactly a lengthy polemic of flaming accusations and anecdotes of past misdeeds.

Roger might be able to supply specifics over any remarks he felt were snipped, but unless he received a raw recording from Aida I doubt he'll remember much as having been removed. I doubt that he'd care much either.

I don't recall anything about LRH that I thought was in any way much out of the ordinary from what you see on a relatively 'open' freezone board. Less inflammatory than some, actually. Certainly nothing was said as critical as the sorts of commonalities seen on clambake or ars. Even the few 'loyalists' present weren't exactly outraged and up in arms at what was said. One 'lrh only' person was a bit of a pain, although that's not bad given the size & diversity of the crowd we had.

As Roger has indicated, whatever his own differences with LRH & the scientology tech, he wasn't there to trash talk scientology or LRH. So, I suspect that nothing significant was likely lost in the editing process.

The good stuff is all there in the videos. I recommend watching them, especially Roger's.


Mark A. Baker