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Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

RogerB said:
Get the book: Struggle for World Power, by George Knupffer . . . . it's available on Amazon.

As to the "Pogroms" . . . all that sort of stuff happened all over Europe . . . but realize, it was the Jewish folks who separated themselves from the rest of society.
Click to expand...

I admit I'm not expert in this area. But will comment.

Due to a Jewish Grandmother I would have been killed if Hitler had his way.

Many years and some civilizations ago ago Jews were forced to take up
professions not wanted by their christian neighbours. Banking for example.

And there lies a long tale!

Traditionally Jews have perhaps more than any other culture worshipped and promoted learning, philosophy and debate. I gather the initiative was
debate on their scriptures.

In the UK they started out as second class citizens, tailers etc in London's east end. [ cockney land sort of]

I went to school with these in "Grocers" Grammer school. These did not
separate themselves from others particularly. This separation best I know happened in lets say biblical/Roman times.

They were typical Teegeaken troublemakers intellectuals and Ne'er do
wells.

I'm proud to be descended in blood and interest from such. :)

In recent times the intellectual and creative input of Jews into at least western society is ENORMOUS!

In the entire world population they are less than 10,000,000.

But check Philosophers. Quite some.

Check hollywood. And its history. There are many conspiracy theries on that one!

When you check musicians they almost have a monopoly, or did some years ago. Find great Pianists, Violinists and conductors of the early twentieth century and Jews almost outnumber the rest of the world.

Here is a primer:-

http://www.jinfo.org/Music.html

Lucky me to have had the genes from one of these :)

Then Russia:-

In the earliest decades of the twentieth century they were heading to
be the supreme power. In 2005 in the Japanese/Russian naval battle they lost. Maybe they learned from this, I don't know.

In WWII they out created Germany re weapons. [ I'm a boys toys
enthusiast].

Their tanks were superior and cheaper than anything Germany could produce.

Their aeroplanes ended up as at least the equal of the best germany could produce, the Focke Wolf 190.

Was they who defeated Huitler.
 
Re: Clearing Up Some Political Issues

lkwdblds said:
We agree on a lot of things. From your above remarks you infer that I distort obvious facts and realities. I never inferred that you did so. I tried to present a few facts about the Eastern Euro countries rejecting Marxist governments the moment they had the opportunity to do so. I believe my statements and facts presented were correct. Maybe you feel they are distored. That's OK with me. People of good will are going to have differences. That's just the way things arre!

I grew up a Jewish Liberal and switched to Conservatism. You started out as a Libertarian Conservative and switch to Socialism and to feeling that Marx got the major things right. You are a good writer and are well spoken. I made no negative comments about you personally. I just wrote that you "said a mouthful" but did not imply any negativity with that comment. I ask for equal treatment by you.

I've seen how several sides live. Being Jewish is not the norm though only twice in my life did I ever feel discriminated against. All my family and friends were Liberals and I was too. Even now, my Son and Daughter are very Progressive.

Our neighborhood went Black when I was 11 but my Dad did not move out until I was 17 so for 6 years I lived in a neighborhood about 75% black, 20% Korean and 5% white. I made friends with everyone, regardless of race and never felt uncomfortable living there.

Next I worked in the Corporate world: North American Rockwell, Douglas and IBM. IBM was a very conservative company. I saw things from that point of view. Next, I spent a year in Houston in 1964-65 working at NASA and several of my fellow workers were strongly bigoted against Blacks and also made fun of Hispanics. I was considered a "Yankee Agitator" by several people at work since I was still a Liberal then.

Then there is Scientology. I was an S.O. member in Portugal and Spain and worked amongst artists and celebrities in L.A. More recently there is ESMB, extremely multi-viewpointed. Many others have experienced more viewpoints than me but I don't believe that I am "viewpoint defficient.
Lakey
Click to expand...

Thanks Roger! I know it is one tiny anecdote but my uncle Nathan Katz, born in 1882, who came over with my Grandma told us that he served in the Russian Army. He said that he got room and board and a tiny salary but he claimed that they supplied him regularly with new bars of soap and he got to shower every day. He never had anything bad to say about his army service.

I can see the Jews being too independent and not integrating into Russian society causing discord with the Russians. However, riding into towns without notice, destroying all the Jewish businesses and killing all the Jews they could find seems a bit too severe of a reaction.

Here is a Cossack song and some interesting pictures of the Russian Cavalry brigades.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q-OzsOmi00

Funny that the Jews resisted participating in the Russian culture. In Germany, England, France, Italy, Netherlands, Italy, Poland, Hungary, Romania and other countries they seem to have been willing to serve in the military and become a part of the country they were in. German Jews fought alongside the Germans in WWI.

Look at how much they integrated into US society, almost right from the start. I find it odd that in Russia they were more resistant to be part of the culture.

Yes, the distance factor...forget Kiev to St. Petersburg, how about about from the Polish border to Vladivostok. That journey appears to be over 7,000 miles or 11,000 kilometers. Before railroads, that is one hell of a trek by horseback! Even by car, you are looking at about 2 weeks if the roads are good.
Lakey
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Terril park said:
I admit I'm not expert in this area. But will comment.

Due to a Jewish Grandmother I would have been killed if Hitler had his way.

Many years and some civilizations ago ago Jews were forced to take up
professions not wanted by their christian neighbours. Banking for example.

And there lies a long tale!

Traditionally Jews have perhaps more than any other culture worshipped and promoted learning, philosophy and debate. I gather the initiative was
debate on their scriptures.

In the UK they started out as second class citizens, tailers etc in London's east end. [ cockney land sort of]

I went to school with these in "Grocers" Grammer school. These did not
separate themselves from others particularly. This separation best I know happened in lets say biblical/Roman times.

They were typical Teegeaken troublemakers intellectuals and Ne'er do
wells.

I'm proud to be descended in blood and interest from such. :)

In recent times the intellectual and creative input of Jews into at least western society is ENORMOUS!

In the entire world population they are less than 10,000,000.

I believe you are a little light Terril. I believe it is a between 13 and 14 million, about5 million in Israel and 6 million in the USA and the rest mainly in Europe, and South America.

But check Philosophers. Quite some.

Check hollywood. And its history. There are many conspiracy theries on that one!

When you check musicians they almost have a monopoly, or did some years ago. Find great Pianists, Violinists and conductors of the early twentieth century and Jews almost outnumber the rest of the world.

Yep! In great composers they did not monopolize but had some good ones, i.e. Mendelsohn, Bizet, Offenbach, St. Saens and Gershwin just to name a few.

Here is a primer:-

http://www.jinfo.org/Music.html

Lucky me to have had the genes from one of these :)

Then Russia:-

In the earliest decades of the twentieth century they were heading to
be the supreme power. In 2005 in the Japanese/Russian naval battle they lost. Maybe they learned from this, I don't know.

In WWII they out created Germany re weapons. [ I'm a boys toys
enthusiast].

Their tanks were superior and cheaper than anything Germany could produce.

Their aeroplanes ended up as at least the equal of the best germany could produce, the Focke Wolf 190.

Was they who defeated Huitler.
Click to expand...

Germany led in submarine development, jet fighters, V1 and V2 Rockets. Fortunately the German weapons were developed to late for them to turn the tide of war.

On the Jewish population, it was estimated at 19 million before WWII and 13 million after the war. 3.5 million Poles no longer existed, 400k Hungarian Jews gone, 500k German Jews gone, hundreds of thousands no longer existing in Denmark and Netherlands, Austria, Czechoslovakia, etc. It makes it pretty hard for Holocaust deniers to be taken seriously. Maybe a few hundred thousand Jews arrived in Palestine just before and during the war but most of the vanished millions were simply exterminated.
 
Re: Clearing Up Some Political Issues

CarmeloOrchards said:
[video=youtube;ODI-NALkI4c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODI-NALkI4c[/video]

[video=youtube;yJXkOgMW3tY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJXkOgMW3tY[/video]



[video=youtube;oeu7Iuz-vKY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeu7Iuz-vKY [/video]



[video=youtube;KQQBCLxgBuE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQQBCLxgBuE&feature=related [/video]
Click to expand...

Rick Perry, one individual Republican touts Christian values. He ran for the presidential nomination and got almost no support within the Republican party. A lot of Republicans are Christians and want to live using Christian values.

There are also 10's of millions of Democrats who are Christian. In the real world, Christianity probably plays a bigger role in the lives of Republicans than Democrats but when the Democrats are attacked for not being religious, most of them deny that and assert that they are very serious about their Christianity. President Obama is one such example.

Christianity or imposing its values into politics and education is not part of the Republican platform. No mainstream Republican is seriously championing this cause. Rick Perry tried to use it a bit as a PR tool and he immediately sank into oblivion on the national scene.

The thing with Catholic institutions being forced to dispense birth control aids is a constitutional matter. Its getting way more press than it deserves. Obama care has this provision written into it but no one saw ahead of time that it would lead to a major clash.

Obviously, if Catholic institutions are forced by the government to do something against their religion, it is a violation of their first ammendment rights. Only unmarried women who are attending Catholic Universities and want to engage in extracurricular sex would ever encounter the problem. This is a very specialized problem, effecting only a few.

To me, a first amendment right appears to trump an unmarried woman demanding the government supply her with free birth control products but many feel, the woman's rights should come first. There is a serious difference of opinion between two sides operating in good faith. Obviously, a solution can be worked out. Obama tried two solutions himself but neither got and general agreement. I don't see how anyone could rule out supporting a Republican candidate over an issue such as this. If it has that effect on someone than by all means that person should oppose Republicans! No Problem!
Lakey
 
Re: More to the Story...

Ted said:
From the Orlando Sentinel:

Zimmerman’s father, 64-year-old Robert Zimmerman of Lake Mary, delivered a one-page letter to the Sentinel on Thursday, saying that the depiction of his son in the media has been cruel and misleading.

George Zimmerman is Hispanic and grew up in a multiracial family, the statement says.

“He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever …,” the letter says. “The media portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth.”

Statement of Robert Zimmerman, father of Neighborhood Watch volunteer/Trayvon Martin shooter George Zimmerman:


“The tragic events of February 26 are very sad for all concerned. The Martin family, our family, and the entire community have been forever changed. The portrayal of George Zimmerman in the media, as well as the series of events that led to the tragic shooting are false and extremely misleading. Unfortunately, some individuals and organizations have used this tragedy to further their own causes and agendas.

"George is a Spanish speaking minority with many black family members and friends. He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever. One black neighbor recently interviewed said she knew everything in the media was untrue and that she would trust George with her life. Another black neighbor said that George was the only one, black or white, who came and welcomed her to the community, offering any assistance he could provide. Recently, I met two black children George invited to a social event. I asked where they met George. They responded that he was their mentor. They said George visited them routinely, took them places, helped them, and taught them things and that they really loved George. The media portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth.

"The events of February 26 reported in the media are also totally inaccurate. Out of respect for the on-going investigation, I will not discuss specifics. However, the media reports of the events are imaginary at best. At no time did George follow or confront Mr. Martin. When the true details of the event become public, and I hope that will be soon, everyone should be outraged by the treatment of George Zimmerman in the media.

"Our entire family is deeply sorry for the loss of Trayvon. We pray for the Martin family daily. We also pray that the community will grieve together and not be divided by more unwarranted hate.

"The Zimmerman family will have no further contact with the media prior to the resolution of the investigation. It would be greatly appreciated if the media would respect our privacy.”
Click to expand...

Dennis Prager commented on this issue. He read the New York Times articles which first came out on this topic. In its first Sentence the article say, "George Zimmerman, a white Hispanic, ..... then goes on with the article. Prager, mentioned that he had never heard the term "white conservative" before. He also said that in the photo of Zimmerman in the times, Zimmerman looks like a Hispanic person.

Prager then pointed out that "the left" needs to portray White people as killing Blacks. It would not serve their agenda driven cause if they showed a Hispanic killing a Black. Had the man had a Latin surname, probably the N.Y.Times probably would not have run such an inflammatory article.

The papers undoubtedly noticed this Hispanic male had a White surname, Zimmerman. Not wanting to waste this opportunity to stir up more hate and foment more tension between the white and black races, the White surname gave them enough of an opening to run the story the way their agenda demands. All they had to do was to create a new term, "white Hispanic" and they were off and running with their dishonest, biased and agenda driven news story.

Now, the contents of Ted's post reveal that Zimmerman is a Spanish speaking Hispanic with many black family members and friends.

The N.Y.Times will go to any extreme to spew out a hateful interpretation of a terrible killing, even going so far as to coin a brand new term, "white Hispanic" for a man who is not at all white.

When Anabaptist Jacques read the story in FoTi's post a couple days ago, he wrote something like, "The Klan is alive and kicking." That is the type of reaction which an article this biased is designed to produce. Had they written the truth, i.e. "George Zimmerman, Hispanic, did such and such", probably things would be much different and much calmer. Al Sharpton is not going to fly in and go through his routine if a Hispanic kills a young Black man but if a "white Hispanic" did the killing the situation is completely changed. Yellow journalism in action!!!
Lakey
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I don't know how to get in touch with the moderators. I just pm'd Emma to delete my above post for personal reasons. Can anyone put me in touch with a mod.
 
My Heroes Fom Childhood to Present Day

JackStraw said:
All these posts, the last few pages, on Reagan, Santorum, Marx, Gorbachev et al, reminds me of some "stable data" (sorry!) form a conservative talk show host:

1: Never fall in love with a politician. They will break your heart, every time."
2: The ONLY way to look at a politician is: Down.

My own: Never examine your heroes too closely. You will only be disappointed.

Jack
Click to expand...

The above comment about heroes set me looking.

My heroes have, outside of my family and family friends, have been big screen characters, music stars, journalists, and a few (very few) politicians.

If you just peruse these videos, you'll see several very dominant themes.

Country living, with all the hard work that goes with it and horses.

Independent thinking and action.

Love

and more action, whether on horseback, under the sea, or skiing down a mountain.

I learned to rock climb three days after seeing "The Eiger Sanction." I still climb. My children climb, my grand children climb.

Watching "Sea Hunt," as a kid, led me to getting a SCUBA license, good to this day. My daughter has a SCUBA instructor's license.

All our kids and grand kids ski. Why? because I loved "Downhill Racer," and had a friend with a cabin at Bear Valley, who taught me how one morning.

My wife, as a teen, used to jump cactus on her horse. My mother put me on a horse before I was 5. My father and my wife's father, both, knew how to handle and shoot a gun. Now our grandchildren know how to shoot.... and I mean know and like shooting. At least four generations of friendship with guns and ammo.The same is true for horses.

There is something very satisfying, knowing family traits, handed down to us, continue on in succeeding generations.

I left out the elephant in the room, The Beatles. They are a given, with almost anyone on the planet.


one other person affected me greatly, SF Chronicle columnist, Herb Caen.

headshot.gif


http://www.sfgate.com/herbcaen/

The following videos are true examples of greatness, that I admired and continue to:


[video=youtube;OMko5LelBdA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMko5LelBdA[/video]


[video=youtube;c4zhJbzs9es]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4zhJbzs9es[/video]


[video=youtube;KXZ9YmxZPgo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXZ9YmxZPgo&feature=related[/video]


[video=youtube;bYrsDT02OcE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYrsDT02OcE[/video]


[video=youtube;Q9dCI-YqICQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9dCI-YqICQ&ob=av3n[/video]


[video=youtube;2HPjMpyul_o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HPjMpyul_o[/video]


[video=youtube;7bhyKS_SWPM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bhyKS_SWPM[/video]

both of these guys:

[video=youtube;Mfg4N5A-ydQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mfg4N5A-ydQ[/video]


[video=youtube;jrKJJge66YI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrKJJge66YI[/video]


[video=youtube;Em_sxKHQekk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em_sxKHQekk[/video]


[video=youtube;p5D6RnMbfHI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5D6RnMbfHI&feature=related[/video]

[video=youtube;xuFSWcNe8hY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuFSWcNe8hY&feature=relmfu[/video]


[video=youtube;giS4d78APx4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giS4d78APx4[/video]


[video=youtube;qPgZLAAVKUk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPgZLAAVKUk&feature=related[/video]


[video=youtube;rEWaqUVac3M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEWaqUVac3M[/video]


[video=youtube;RBAmLm_jYyY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBAmLm_jYyY[/video]


[video=youtube;2Kh8ftuJ-zs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Kh8ftuJ-zs[/video]


[video=youtube;1gNvuJ7IbTw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gNvuJ7IbTw[/video]


[video=youtube;U-OU7xHYF_Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-OU7xHYF_Y[/video]


[video=youtube;PRRbLE-FT_M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRRbLE-FT_M&feature=fvst[/video]


[video=youtube;cnAv3Y2EBfI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnAv3Y2EBfI[/video]


[video=youtube;8Xjr2hnOHiM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xjr2hnOHiM[/video]


[video=youtube;SeldwfOwuL8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeldwfOwuL8[/video]

[video=youtube;i40DDI7Hplc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i40DDI7Hplc&feature=related[/video]

[video=youtube;UF8uR6Z6KLc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF8uR6Z6KLc[/video]


[video=youtube;eiA7TVQN9Z8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiA7TVQN9Z8[/video]

news women breaking the glass ceiling (especially Barbara Walters, Mika Brzezinski, and Diane Sawyer):

[video=youtube;eEcV00tMxGk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEcV00tMxGk[/video]
 
Last edited:
Re: More to the Story...

lkwdblds said:
Dennis Prager commented on this issue. He read the New York Times articles which first came out on this topic. In its first Sentence the article say, "George Zimmerman, a white Hispanic, ..... then goes on with the article. Prager, mentioned that he had never heard the term "white conservative" before. He also said that in the photo of Zimmerman in the times, Zimmerman looks like a Hispanic person.

Prager then pointed out that "the left" needs to portray White people as killing Blacks. It would not serve their agenda driven cause if they showed a Hispanic killing a Black. Had the man had a Latin surname, probably the N.Y.Times probably would not have run such an inflammatory article.

The papers undoubtedly noticed this Hispanic male had a White surname, Zimmerman. Not wanting to waste this opportunity to stir up more hate and foment more tension between the white and black races, the White surname gave them enough of an opening to run the story the way their agenda demands. All they had to do was to create a new term, "white Hispanic" and they were off and running with their dishonest, biased and agenda driven news story.

Now, the contents of Ted's post reveal that Zimmerman is a Spanish speaking Hispanic with many black family members and friends.

The N.Y.Times will go to any extreme to spew out a hateful interpretation of a terrible killing, even going so far as to coin a brand new term, "white Hispanic" for a man who is not at all white.

When Anabaptist Jacques read the story in FoTi's post a couple days ago, he wrote something like, "The Klan is alive and kicking." That is the type of reaction which an article this biased is designed to produce. Had they written the truth, i.e. "George Zimmerman, Hispanic, did such and such", probably things would be much different and much calmer. Al Sharpton is not going to fly in and go through his routine if a Hispanic kills a young Black man but if a "white Hispanic" did the killing the situation is completely changed. Yellow journalism in action!!!
Lakey
Click to expand...

Lakey....I wrote that about the KKK....here's what was posted.


"I saw this with my own eyes and yes, we called the sheriff and these people were removed, but not arrested.

Several people brought us flyers that were left on their doors a few days earlier. It said that Republicans vote on Tuesday and that Democrats vote on Wednesday. These people knew better. But how many did not?

What kind of country do you want to have? One that has fair elections or one where your preferred candidate is guaranteed to win?

I dare you to go work the polls this coming election. Not in some lily-white precint but in a black precinct. If you are an honest person you will get a change of view.

The Anabaptist Jacques

I wrote the following in response.....

"Looks like the KKK is still alive and kickin'. There are too many shitheads in this world. Makes life miserable for the rest of us"

That was my response to what TAJ wrote about the elections. And I still say....there are too many shitheads in this world. Makes life miserable for the rest of us.....regardless of what side they are on.
 
Last edited:
Re: More to the Story...

FoTi said:
Lakey....I wrote that about the KKK....here's what was posted.


"I saw this with my own eyes and yes, we called the sheriff and these people were removed, but not arrested.

Several people brought us flyers that were left on their doors a few days earlier. It said that Republicans vote on Tuesday and that Democrats vote on Wednesday. These people knew better. But how many did not?

What kind of country do you want to have? One that has fair elections or one where your preferred candidate is guaranteed to win?

I dare you to go work the polls this coming election. Not in some lily-white precint but in a black precinct. If you are an honest person you will get a change of view.

The Anabaptist Jacques

I wrote the following in response.....

"Looks like the KKK is still alive and kickin'. There are too many shitheads in this world. Makes life miserable for the rest of us"
Click to expand...

Thanks for correcting me. I apologize to AJ for misquoting him.
Lakey
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I just watched a cool movie on Youtube. If you've never seen it......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3eBOcWmZw4&feature=related

Last night I had it on Youtube all in one piece. I didn't have time to watch the whole thing and forgot to bookmark it. When I went back tonight to watch the rest of it, I could only find it posted in sections....but it's all there.
 
Re: My Heroes Fom Childhood to Present Day

CarmeloOrchards said:
snip waaaay too many videos
Click to expand...

It's not a good idea to post this many videos in one single post. My browser crashed twice when I tried to do anything with this page. Anyone without cable or fast ADSL will struggle to open this thread.
 
Message to Hatsi

Hats, I enjoyed reading your long post about the shooting down in your section of the country. I am sorry about all the major typos in my post which you responded to. The biggest error was saying "white conservative" when I meant "white Hispanic".

Anyway, I was going to reply to your post and then I found out from your next post that you now want to delete it. Its a good thing that you posted that you were trying to delete it because, of course, if someone replies, your post appears again and you can't get it deleted without cooperation from the other poster.

It sure was a very interesting and informative post! A lot of the stuff you wrote about was all new to me. Its just evidence of more deterioration going on in our society, It is really amazing how far we have dropped as a nation since, say, the JFK era.

At that time the future looked rosy, the civil rights movement was in high gear. My friend Ken and I used to go to downtown Vegas and stay at the Fremont Hotel and play blackjack using the Thorpe card counting system. In 1963 a Black friend from work, Joe, wanted to go with us so the 3 of us drove to Vegas. In 1962, Blacks could not have registered at the Fremont but in 1963, Joe was welcomed with open arms and treated with great courtesy. Things were getting better, moving upwards.

Nowadays, it looks as if we reversing course and heading into anarchy. That article of yours shows an awfully ugly side of society. The New York Times is another good example. It once had a reputation for journalistic excellence. The paper now still has a lot of good features in it but its mindset is in the gutter. Creating that term "white Hispanic", knowing full well what they were doing, led to Sharpton coming in with his phony indignation and all the fomenting of racial hatred which he brings to the table.

Does anyone know why the management of the Times' would do a thing like that? How do they benefit from a big race riot going on in Florida that really did not have to happen? What are they going for? Is it more circulation, more notoriety or what? I just don't see how they benefit when they go out of there way to help foment a race riot.
Lakey
 
Re: My Heroes Fom Childhood to Present Day

Emma said:
It's not a good idea to post this many videos in one single post. My browser crashed twice when I tried to do anything with this page. Anyone without cable or fast ADSL will struggle to open this thread.
Click to expand...
Yep, this thread is a nightmare to navigate due to the innumerable multi-video links, I usually avoid it for that exact reason. The script loading of multi-vids can lock up or crash most browsers. Lrn2internet, Appolo Thread folks
 
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