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The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

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Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Should we abdicate out helping solely to the government? Of course not! That is a terrible thing to do. The blunt reality, however, is that in a government of the type that Obama is pursuing, the government takes more money from wage earners, especially the "most fortunate among us", and doles it out to whomever it feels is being treated unfairly by life. This has several adverse effects!

First, money is removed from the hands of individuals. Let's say an upper middle class person paid $30,000 in taxes last year and donated $5,000 to charities. This year his income has not gone up but his taxes go up to say $33,000. With this new tax burden, he is unable to donate $5000 to charity and gives $2,000 instead.

Next, *people who have not earned money but have taken it from the labor of others tend not to be prudent when spending that money. There is usually an enormous amount of waste taking place in their handling of money* as well as pay offs, graft, cronyism, corruption and all of that.

That leads to a third point in that a much lower percentage of the funds earmarked for charity are likely to reach charities when the government makes a donation compared to when an individual citizen makes a donation.
Lakey

If you could prove that, I would be very impressed and more than a little surprised. Can you prove it? If you can't, that's OK, it would just mean that you have formed a fixed belief that isn't based on fact or objective reality. So can you prove it, or not?
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

"The greatest mockery was reserved for American Democracy. Here it got serious. He made a speech about how US democracy allowed one percent of the population to own 99% or whatever of the countries wealth, and those in charge to help their buddies who gambled and lost. Etc."

Shit! gave a film review and unleashed a torrent of political comment.

I'm not that interested or well versed in politics and economics. But will give some opinions here.

Aim your pistols. :) Or 15 inch battleship guns or whatever. [ love them ;)

The peoples republic of the USA own its airwaves. In theory. However anyone seeking political position needs to promote on these socialist [ in theory] airwaves. This costs mucho bucks!

Thus political candidates have to go begging for money. Thus those with money gain influence. [ Right on Sacher Baron Cohen]. Then there is the whole lobbying system. With its monetary influence. Think Monsanto. Monsanto's revolving doors with legislators. Nor are they the only criminals.

Basically the american system though founded on great ideas has become extremely corrupt. Just like CO$ [ Knew I could get back on topic:)]

So here is my view from the UK. Pensions are being inspected, maybe cut. Special needs children are now being denied the help they need. Those over 60 who were entitled to free public transport [ OK london but probably nation wide] now have to wait an extra 5 years for this.

In general all social services are being cut back.

This is a very limited overview in that I don't really follow such ideas.

Then farmers who find GM seeds on their land get sued by Monsanto. Not sure if this is UK, but definitely US.

All because our tax monies bailed out stupid wankers ....Oops bankers.
 
Re: The Art of Intelligence

this morning on Morning Joe:

former operations officer for the CIA's Clandestine Service, Henry Crumpton



[video]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/[/video]


Yikes, I must be missing something! To me Joe Biden is comes across as a cliche, a cartoon character or a buffoon . His life story is amazing! His wife and 3 kids died in an auto accident but he was able to recover from that, rebuild his life with a new wife and kids and achieve success and hapiness. He must be admired for that, no one can take that achievement away from him!

However, as a politician and public speaker he has next to nothing to offer.

Two comments: #1 - He is referring to the rich and the Republicans as if they are synonymous. The fact is that both Democrats and Republicans have considerable numbers of rich among them and millions of working class people among their ranks as well. When John Kerry (the richest person in congress) ran for president, Dems did not criticize him for being rich. Ditto for all of the Kennedy's when they ran for office. The Hollywood elite (Steven Spielberg, l the top actors and behind the scenes people, et al) are almost all Democrat multimillionaires. George Soros, a billionaire who funds the Democrats is never criticized nor is the wealthy Nancy Pelosi. Trying to equate millionaires with Republicans is hypocritical and disingenuous.

#2 - Biden seems to be using the ploy of putting words in someone else's mouth and then heavily attacking that person for saying something which the person never actually said. Who could possibly be against Biden and his working class parents believing that they could get rich and rise to high positions in business or government.

When Biden contorts his face and feigns outrage and states very emotionally the words, "They don't get who we are!" The "we" represents Democrats and Progressive but who does "they" refer to. It is IMPLIED that the Republicans all fall into the "they" group but all of the Republicans whom I have heard speak would cheer the Biden family on for believing in themselves - all the more so for starting with humble roots and making it to the top. That achievement is what the right is pushing for.

My opinion is that Biden hasn't much native intelligence. There is not much depth to his proclamations. He sticks his foot in his mouth over and over again, making silly comments which reflect badly on the Obama - Biden administration. His wave length used to communicate seems to vibrate at a low harmonic, basically emoting simple emotional phrases with too much emotion, much like an unskilled actor might do when first starting an acting career.

Maybe I am missing something. Maybe, if he became president, he would be able to take his time, weigh things and make prudent decisions. Perhaps its only when he opens his mouth to the public that he looks like a buffoon. He seems like a nice guy and a "good hearted Joe" but a guy who is lacking in wisdom and maturity as regards his politics and his public speaking abilities.
Lakey
 
74 years old at Cannes -- guess who!

rouille-et-dos-premiere-65th-20120517-100625-886.jpg

rouille-et-dos-premiere-65th-20120517-103849-348.jpg



Barbarella-penthouse.jpg
 
Re: The Art of Intelligence

Yikes, I must be missing something! To me Joe Biden is comes across as a cliche, a cartoon character or a buffoon . His life story is amazing! His wife and 3 kids died in an auto accident but he was able to recover from that, rebuild his life with a new wife and kids and achieve success and hapiness. He must be admired for that, no one can take that achievement away from him!

However, as a politician and public speaker he has next to nothing to offer.

Two comments: #1 - He is referring to the rich and the Republicans as if they are synonymous. The fact is that both Democrats and Republicans have considerable numbers of rich among them and millions of working class people among their ranks as well. When John Kerry (the richest person in congress) ran for president, Dems did not criticize him for being rich. Ditto for all of the Kennedy's when they ran for office. The Hollywood elite (Steven Spielberg, l the top actors and behind the scenes people, et al) are almost all Democrat multimillionaires. George Soros, a billionaire who funds the Democrats is never criticized nor is the wealthy Nancy Pelosi. Trying to equate millionaires with Republicans is hypocritical and disingenuous.

#2 - Biden seems to be using the ploy of putting words in someone else's mouth and then heavily attacking that person for saying something which the person never actually said. Who could possibly be against Biden and his working class parents believing that they could get rich and rise to high positions in business or government.

When Biden contorts his face and feigns outrage and states very emotionally the words, "They don't get who we are!" The "we" represents Democrats and Progressive but who does "they" refer to. It is IMPLIED that the Republicans all fall into the "they" group but all of the Republicans whom I have heard speak would cheer the Biden family on for believing in themselves - all the more so for starting with humble roots and making it to the top. That achievement is what the right is pushing for.

My opinion is that Biden hasn't much native intelligence. There is not much depth to his proclamations. He sticks his foot in his mouth over and over again, making silly comments which reflect badly on the Obama - Biden administration. His wave length used to communicate seems to vibrate at a low harmonic, basically emoting simple emotional phrases with too much emotion, much like an unskilled actor might do when first starting an acting career.

Maybe I am missing something. Maybe, if he became president, he would be able to take his time, weigh things and make prudent decisions. Perhaps its only when he opens his mouth to the public that he looks like a buffoon. He seems like a nice guy and a "good hearted Joe" but a guy who is lacking in wisdom and maturity as regards his politics and his public speaking abilities.
Lakey

I did a bad job of putting the URL I wanted.


the video I wanted to show was the one of "Former CIA..."

he highlighted that the Clinton administration had tried to get bin Laden, and that the Bush administration, prior to 9/11, had gone after nation states.
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

In the 21st century under the Obama administration, the word "equality" seems to have morphed into having a lot to do about material wealth and the relative wealth of different segments of the populace. For example, Obama's term of addressing the rich is to call them the "more fortunate among us". One's who are less wealthy are called the "less fortunate among us".

In the Obama manner of looking at things, the fact that one has achieved a level of wealth is looked at as a matter of being lucky. Not being wealthy is looked at as simply not getting the breaks or, through little or no fault of one's own, having things go against one by chance.

One person being smarter than another, coming up with better ideas, working harder and the like is not factored into the equation. As a result the implication is that it is unfair for the more fortunate among us to have their monetary wealth at the expense of the less fortunate among us and the government, therefore, has the responsibility to redistribute the funds in a more "fair" manner.
Lakey

I read a quote somewhere (I wish I could give proper attribution) to the effect of
"the reason so few answer when Opportunity knocks is that it is dressed in overalls and looks like hard work."

I see the 1% vs 99% as sheer idiocy. Yes, there is a group that today have the highest 1% of the wealth. But the next 1% is pretty darned close to that and the next and so on. Also, the members of any stratum of wealth are constantly in flux. Someone in the bottom 10% last year may well be in the top 10% this year (or even in the top 1%.) It isn't a fixed caste system. That, among others, is the greatness of our system. No one has to stay poor and no one guarantees you will remain at the top.

Jack
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

If you could prove that, I would be very impressed and more than a little surprised. Can you prove it? If you can't, that's OK, it would just mean that you have formed a fixed belief that isn't based on fact or objective reality. So can you prove it, or not?

Its not something I made up. I've heard the subject discussed many times with the actual figures given so I thought it was general knowledge, not subject to dispute. The Federal bureaucracy is top heavy with tenured employees who can't be fired and who receive regular raises based on tenure and not performance. There are a lot of duplicate departments doing similar duties. Just the overhead alone to run the federal bureacracy consumes about 33% of whatever monies are earmarked for charity. There is more waste and perhaps some payola such that the amount of money which actually reaches the people whom the money was intended for is a smaller percentage via the Feds than it is if done by a private person.

Part of the reason is just human nature - when you spend money you earn yourself, you want to ensure maximum value for your dollar but when you are a tenured bureaucrat spending another's money, it's a different ball game. A federal bureaucrat should have a fiduciary responsibility in carrying out his/her duties. However, the Feds have a terrible record of being top heavy in overhead costs and using more people than necessary to carry out a given task. Just look at the shambles our Federal economy is in now, $4 trillion in debt during 8 years of the Bush administration and already $6 trillion in new debt in 3 1/2 years of the Obama administration, taking the USA to a current national debt of $16 trillion . No Federal budget has been passed in the last 1,000 days, the federal debt ceiling is being raised every few months.

Give me a break, Smila, why would you be surprised to hear that the Federal government would do a poor job disbursing moneys earmarked for charities? It would be surprising to find out they they were doing a good job.


People on chat boards don't always do research to back up their statements. The statements are opinions offered on a take it or leave it basis. Usually, a dissenter will offer substantiated facts to counter a fallacious claim by an OP. However, in this case I will spend some time doing research to obtain actual figures. Give me a day or two and I will post the figures for you and any other interested parties.
Lakey
 
government overhead

a former business parker of mine, when he worked for Philco - Ford Aerospace, found that there were secretaries on the payroll, who never came into the building, whose sole job was to "entertain" generals, admirals, and other military procurement buyers. These secretaries were paid well above what other secretaries made.
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Yes....she looks fantastic for 74. Wow!

I've heard some sizizlng stories about her libido. She was on some afternoon talk showast week saying how 'flexible' she STILL was.....referring to women enjoying a long healthy sexife.

Met a person who cleaned the leased jet she and Ted Turner returned. They left an entire adult toy shop on board. Yep, she's a sizzler. :biggrin:

BAREFOOT IN THE PARK

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7euiG3tT2R8&sns=em
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I've heard some sizizlng stories about her libido. She was on some afternoon talk showast week saying how 'flexible' she STILL was.....referring to women enjoying a long healthy sexife.

Met a person who cleaned the leased jet she and Ted Turner returned. They left an entire adult toy shop on board. Yep, she's a sizzler. :biggrin:

BAREFOOT IN THE PARK

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7euiG3tT2R8&sns=em

The "Mouth From the South" goofed on letting her go.
 
Re: The Art of Intelligence

I did a bad job of putting the URL I wanted.


the video I wanted to show was the one of "Former CIA..."

he highlighted that the Clinton administration had tried to get bin Laden, and that the Bush administration, prior to 9/11, had gone after nation states.

Thanks for pointing out that you did not mean to post the Biden video. It thought something was wrong, you mentioned Former CIA and we got Biden instead.

The right slanted news channel, Fox News, often claimed that Clinton was offered a tip which would have handed him Osama Bin Laden on a silver platter but President Clinton decided not to act on the tip he was given. Of course this was quite a few years before 9/11/2001. Obama did act when he had an opportunity to get Bin Laden. To me, that was a highlight of his first term. He did a good job going after Bin Laden. BTW, it looks like the incident where Obama was killed was real and actually happened. When the news of it was first released, I read quite a few opinions which stated that the event was staged and did not really happen.

One other thing on which I am pro Obama is the part he played in bailing out GM and Chrysler. The Carter administration bailed out Chrysler in the late 70's and the Obama administration bailed out GM and Chrysler in 2009. These bailouts have seemed to work out. I think American jobs have been saved and some new jobs created through these bail outs. GM returned to being the largest auto maker in the world last year and Chrysler became the fastest growing car company in the world. It is hard to conceive of the USA without a General Motors Corp. It is also nice that Chrysler was saved. Fiat bought about 55% of Chrysler stock and is doing wonders in helping in the management of the company and they are on the verge of bringing out some cutting edge high tech models such as an all new Dodge Viper and a fantastic car using an old and successful Dodge name, the Dodge Dart. The new Dart will be based on an Alfa Romeo chasis and will be a popular priced entry in the segment which includes the Honda Civic and the Toyota Corolla. It is supposed to have cutting age technology unlike anything now on the market. Both models are scheduled to be released as 2013 models late this year.
Lakey
 
Re: The Art of Intelligence

Thanks for pointing out that you did not mean to post the Biden video. It thought something was wrong, you mentioned Former CIA and we got Biden instead.

The right slanted news channel, Fox News, often claimed that Clinton was offered a tip which would have handed him Osama Bin Laden on a silver platter but President Clinton decided not to act on the tip he was given. Of course this was quite a few years before 9/11/2001. Obama did act when he had an opportunity to get Bin Laden. To me, that was a highlight of his first term. He did a good job going after Bin Laden. BTW, it looks like the incident where Obama was killed was real and actually happened. When the news of it was first released, I read quite a few opinions which stated that the event was staged and did not really happen.

One other thing on which I am pro Obama is the part he played in bailing out GM and Chrysler. The Carter administration bailed out Chrysler in the late 70's and the Obama administration bailed out GM and Chrysler in 2009. These bailouts have seemed to work out. I think American jobs have been saved and some new jobs created through these bail outs. GM returned to being the largest auto maker in the world last year and Chrysler became the fastest growing car company in the world. It is hard to conceive of the USA without a General Motors Corp. It is also nice that Chrysler was saved. Fiat bought about 55% of Chrysler stock and is doing wonders in helping in the management of the company and they are on the verge of bringing out some cutting edge high tech models such as an all new Dodge Viper and a fantastic car using an old and successful Dodge name, the Dodge Dart. The new Dart will be based on an Alfa Romeo chasis and will be a popular priced entry in the segment which includes the Honda Civic and the Toyota Corolla. It is supposed to have cutting age technology unlike anything now on the market. Both models are scheduled to be released as 2013 models late this year.
Lakey

It annoys me that Romney says he was partly responsible for the GM bailout, when he wanted GM to go into bankruptcy. Etch a Sketch is a good label for him.

If you go to the Morning Joe website and scroll / look at the menu you'll find the CIA guy segment. It tells of the Clinton miss of bin Laden. They just knew where bin Laden was at one point, but couldn't predict where he'd be in five hours when they could bomb the place. Clinton and Obama were both trying to kill bin Laden. Bush was fighting wars with countries, not individuals.
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I've heard some sizizlng stories about her libido. She was on some afternoon talk showast week saying how 'flexible' she STILL was.....referring to women enjoying a long healthy sexife.

Met a person who cleaned the leased jet she and Ted Turner returned. They left an entire adult toy shop on board. Yep, she's a sizzler. :biggrin:

BAREFOOT IN THE PARK

No wonder she has such a wonderful smile on her face! :biggrin::biggrin:

:thumbsup::clap::eyeroll:

Rog
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

For you deep thinkers interested in the theme of the idiot classes demanding distribution of wealth from the productive classes to them . . . get a load of this example cited in the WSJ this morning :duh::duh:

This is leftist "share the wealth" (but don't make me work for or produce it--and I'll shoot us both in the foot/back or whatever else I can hit if you attempt to) think par excellence :duh:

Note that this guy could well be Greece's next Prime Minister!

Defiant Message From Greece

ATHENS—The head of Greece's radical left party—throwing down a gauntlet that could increase tensions between Greece and its frustrated European creditors—said he sees little chance Europe will cut off funding to the country but that if it does, Athens will stop paying its debts.
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Its not something I made up. I've heard the subject discussed many times with the actual figures given so I thought it was general knowledge, not subject to dispute. The Federal bureaucracy is top heavy with tenured employees who can't be fired and who receive regular raises based on tenure and not performance. There are a lot of duplicate departments doing similar duties. Just the overhead alone to run the federal bureacracy consumes about 33% of whatever monies are earmarked for charity. There is more waste and perhaps some payola such that the amount of money which actually reaches the people whom the money was intended for is a smaller percentage via the Feds than it is if done by a private person.

Part of the reason is just human nature - when you spend money you earn yourself, you want to ensure maximum value for your dollar but when you are a tenured bureaucrat spending another's money, it's a different ball game. A federal bureaucrat should have a fiduciary responsibility in carrying out his/her duties. However, the Feds have a terrible record of being top heavy in overhead costs and using more people than necessary to carry out a given task. Just look at the shambles our Federal economy is in now, $4 trillion in debt during 8 years of the Bush administration and already $6 trillion in new debt in 3 1/2 years of the Obama administration, taking the USA to a current national debt of $16 trillion . No Federal budget has been passed in the last 1,000 days, the federal debt ceiling is being raised every few months.

Give me a break, Smila, why would you be surprised to hear that the Federal government would do a poor job disbursing moneys earmarked for charities? It would be surprising to find out they they were doing a good job.


People on chat boards don't always do research to back up their statements. The statements are opinions offered on a take it or leave it basis. Usually, a dissenter will offer substantiated facts to counter a fallacious claim by an OP. However, in this case I will spend some time doing research to obtain actual figures. Give me a day or two and I will post the figures for you and any other interested parties.
Lakey

It's OK - no need to go searching for references. As for what you say about government, there's no doubt that there is a lot of waste and poor usage of money, but with regard to the end recipient of government or charity help being spendthrift or wasteful with what they are given, I've never seen anything to support that view.
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

It's OK - no need to go searching for references. As for what you say about government, there's no doubt that there is a lot of waste and poor usage of money, but with regard to the end recipient of government or charity help being spendthrift or wasteful with what they are given, I've never seen anything to support that view.

Well, you've got me curious now. I will make some time and do a Google search and see what, if anything, comes up.

I believe, but am not positively certain, that even when a private citizen gives to charity, the amount that is siphoned off by the management of the charity can be quite substantial. Not that long ago there was a list published somewhere, maybe on ESMB or more likely on Fox News showing how much of the money given to various charities made it through to the intended needy people; it also showed the yearly salary drawn by the CEO of the charity.

Just going from memory, I believe that the "United Way" was the least efficent charity. Their CEO had an annual salary of around $700 thousand and something like 23% of the money reached the needy. The best performance was by the Salvation Army. Their CEO was drawing down only about $55k per year and a little over 80% of the money reached the needy. On average, CEO's were earning around $200 K and around 50% of the money was reaching the needy. These stats are totally from memory and could be wrong. That is what I am going to attempt to find out in my research.

Whatever the actual figures are, you have to figure that the amount reaching the needy is going to be lowered by about 33% if the government gets involved. Let's say that the Feds do run a fairly efficient bureau which chooses what charities to support and exercises good fiduciary responsibility in choosing where to pay the money. The true scenario is probably not that good but for the sake of argument, let us agree that it is. Even in that best possible case, still a significant percentage of the donation has to go to support the Federal government to pay the salaries of the people who work in that bureau. Maybe it won't be 33%, maybe 25% or 20% is closer to the truth. Even at 20%, that's 20% less to the charity than if a private person donates.

Maybe the government offsets that because they force the public to donate to charity. Maybe they take in 50% more money than would be donated voluntarily by individuals. If they did that and took 25% of the money to run their bureaus, the charities would get more, despite the governments percentage. This is certainly possible.

There is another factor at work here which I failed to mention but which is important. The individual gives to who he or she chooses but if the government collects the money from individuals the government chooses who will be the recipients of the money.

You hear these stories about the labor unions being very far to the left politically. Let's say a union has 60% Democrats and 40% Republican in its membership. The Union donates a significant portion of the union dues to their preferred political candidates who are 100% Democrats. Republican candidates are never supported by the trade unions. Therefore, 40% of the membership is having its own money spent for candidates whom that 40% want defeated. Certainly, if Republicans were in control of an Organization with a lot of Democrats as members, the reverse situation could easily occur and I would guess that it does occur in many instances, especially in the Red States.

The point is, why have a government bureau collect money from workers to give to charity? Why not just leave that function to individuals.? I give one plausible answer above. Is that why the feds want to engage in this area or are there other reasons?
Lakey
 
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It's Aloha Friday

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Right now I'd like to be walking down Kalakaua Ave. toward Cheeseburger in Paradise or across the street to The Cheesecake Factory, and then back to the beach for a little more sun. Tomorrow I could be on the North Side getting some shave ice, hop over to Maui, go scuba diving off Lanai. I just need a fix.

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Don Ho was one gracious humble nice man. One night we were in a men's room peeing in adjacent stalls. Chatting. He had none of that "I'm a STAR" He was a regular guy, much like John Madden. He liked people. He liked performing. It showed in all of his actions.

[video=youtube;-Q1dDUlwgQQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q1dDUlwgQQ[/video]


[video=youtube;QNIRvyBbgzA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNIRvyBbgzA[/video]

[video=youtube;x15u9ZiNCI0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x15u9ZiNCI0[/video]

[video=youtube;7WOup9w4JXU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WOup9w4JXU[/video]

[video=youtube;CRzLyvV3Xsw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=CRzLyvV3Xsw[/video]
 
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Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

http://www.maxfarquar.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/EU-Monopoly.jpg
For you deep thinkers interested in the theme of the idiot classes demanding distribution of wealth from the productive classes to them . . . get a load of this example cited in the WSJ this morning :duh::duh:

This is leftist "share the wealth" (but don't make me work for or produce it--and I'll shoot us both in the foot/back or whatever else I can hit if you attempt to) think par excellence :duh:

Note that this guy could well be Greece's next Prime Minister!

Its a game of CHANCE. But when you can't merit anything, deserve it, or earn it, and it's generated out of nuthin, $ VOILA!......it's just monopoly money anyhow. That's why the attitude.

http://www.maxfarquar.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/EU-Monopoly.jpg
 
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