The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Lakey, I can't say I know anyone with ALL of the same traits as LF, but one or two family members or friends come downright close! These people who act as if they are speaking for God and drool when contemplating his show wrath against man are just one big service facsimile. How does carnage make them right? Dunno.

And they are always proponents of enforcing some infallible LAW which rewards themselves as the righteous. Fanatics are getting too much respect. Hrrmmmmmph!

Well on what you say above, we have full agreement. When suicide bombs explode in a public place, or worse yet, an aircraft and children and innocent people are maimed and killed and the perpetrators believe that they are martyrs and will be rewarded by their God with sex in the after life while those back home cheer with frenzy on the streets, it makes one wonder just how sick and brainwashed the human mind can become!

How could anyone in their right mind cheer for maiming and murdering innocent people, especially children. How are they able to maintain an image of a God who would want them to do such acts? Doesn't the Koran incorporate the 10 Commandments in it? Those types of beliefs being held by members of one of the world's largest and greatest religions is one of the things which is most scary on this planet.

I believe only a minority of Muslims believe that way but with over a billion followers, even if only 5% to 10% support terror, that still provides over 50 million to 100 million potential terrorists. It is pretty frightening!!
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Are we losing readers? At the end of the every thread there is a list of every member's name who has read the thread. Lurkers, of course are not listed.

Also there is an option on everyone's control panel to hide the fact that they have visited a thread, in effect concealing the fact that they have visited.

Earlier before ESMB shut down and reopened with a new format, we had a little bit over 600 names listed as having read the thread. After the shut down, that started over again at zero but quickly rose to about 255 in just a few days. That 258 built up to 428 after many months.

An odd thing then happened last week, the 428 dropped to 427 one day and then to 426, amd 425 and now to 424 today. What is happening is that several of our readers are going back and checking the option box in their control panel to conceal the fact that they are reading a thread. Very interesting...
Lakey

 

[Ogsonofgroo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Lol, what list?

Hits on a thread could also be any bot's wot happens to crawl by, figure this, often there are around 50 (guestimate average) members reading around, clicking on the most recent post doesn't mean anyone's really reading anything.
Nothing to fret about imho, stats are for cultic porpoises

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Lol, what list?

Hits on a thread could also be any bot's wot happens to crawl by, figure this, often there are around 50 (guestimate average) members reading around, clicking on the most recent post doesn't mean anyone's really reading anything.
Nothing to fret about imho, stats are for cultic porpoises

Your reply doesn't have anything to do with the point I made. My point was that some readers of the thread were exercising an option on their home page to conceal the fact that they have read a thread, not just this thread but any thread. Before they exercise the option, the info is available that they have read a read but after they exercise it, that info no longer shows up. My point was just noticing that 4 people who have read this read have chosen to exercise that option in the last 4 days which I thought was unusual.
Lakey

 

[Smilla]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Well on what you say above, we have full agreement. When suicide bombs explode in a public place, or worse yet, an aircraft and children and innocent people are maimed and killed and the perpetrators believe that they are martyrs and will be rewarded by their God with sex in the after life while those back home cheer with frenzy on the streets, it makes one wonder just how sick and brainwashed the human mind can become!

How could anyone in their right mind cheer for maiming and murdering innocent people, especially children. How are they able to maintain an image of a God who would want them to do such acts? Doesn't the Koran incorporate the 10 Commandments in it? Those types of beliefs being held by members of one of the world's largest and greatest religions is one of the things which is most scary on this planet.

I believe only a minority of Muslims believe that way but with over a billion followers, even if only 5% to 10% support terror, that still provides over 50 million to 100 million potential terrorists. It is pretty frightening!!
Lakey

"Atrocity is recognized as such by victim and predator alike, by all who learn about it at whatever remove. Atrocity has no excuses, no mitigating argument. Atrocity never balances or rectifies the past. Atrocity merely arms the future for more atrocity. It is self-perpetuating upon itself — a barbarous form of incest. Whoever commits atrocity also commits those future atrocities thus bred."

- Anon.

 

[RogerB]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Here lakey . . . hopefully this post will excite some readers . . .

By the way, Ogs, only the author of a thread can see the "who's read it/visited thingie" . . . . so hence the "what list" you've got

This little item . . . not in US main stream media makes you wonder why US main stream media are so fixed on putting the sheeples attention on how bad things are in Greece or Spain!

Here's a little truth closer to home . . . .

Wells Fargo Seizes Stockton, California City Hall
Thursday, May 31, 2012

The Stockton City Council announced Wednesday that they will look at bankruptcy contingency plans after Wells Fargo seized the new city hall building.

The city paid $35 million to buy the 8-story building, but was not able to move in because of its money problems, and recently stopped making debt payments all together. This is the fourth building that was repossessed by Wells Fargo; the bank seized three city parking garages for the same reason.

Just wait to financial problems start to put a squeeze on state governments. California and Illinois are high up on the list. They might be able to scrape by for another year or two, but that’s it.

More here: http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2012/05/wells-fargo-seizes-stockton-california.html

Local authority bankruptcies are spreading in the good ol' USofA.

R

 

[Ogsonofgroo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Ahhh my bad, thank you Roger! Didn't know that *hangs head*

 

[Mick Wenlock]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I believe only a minority of Muslims believe that way but with over a billion followers, even if only 5% to 10% support terror, that still provides over 50 million to 100 million potential terrorists. It is pretty frightening!!
Lakey

Where do you get the 5% to 10% figure from? It is way too high imho

What would be the percentage of ANY group that would support terror? I think the figure would be way lower than that. Even during the height of the Provo terror campaigns of the 70' and 80s the estimated hard core of members was a couple of hundred with a close knit support of a couple of thousand.

Terrorist groups intimidate way more of their own people than they do the enemy.

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

On the day I registered on ESMB I made selections that still stand.

To me, there is information others are entitled to and information they are not entitled to.

It would seem that making 'likes' & 'dislikes' plus posts here and there would leave enough of a trail for even the slowest ones to follow.

Stats ? Why - of course - some are still into the glory of stats ( not to mention the use of 'situational' ethics to get 'em up when required !

Stats ! After all some did have to reach the numbers by 2 o'clock today ! So not only do stats matter but that all important 2 o'clock on Thursday is a big deal, too !

Some may have left the cult, now, they need to get their mind out of the cult, too.

 

[Ogsonofgroo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Heya Lakey, I understand what you're saying, but keep in mind another aspect of it, and that is that there are lots of members, new and old, who aren't particularly computer savy and will find things and go "Ooooooo, what does this button do?" r' some-such. Pretty sure there's no conspiracy or what-ever
No worries mate!



:dancer:

 

[RogerB]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Ahhh my bad, thank you Roger! Didn't know that *hangs head*

Nah, not a "bad" Ogs, just missing info. Source a thread, and you can join the club of "innies" who can see how popular one is

R

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Where do you get the 5% to 10% figure from? It is way too high imho

What would be the percentage of ANY group that would support terror? I think the figure would be way lower than that. Even during the height of the Provo terror campaigns of the 70' and 80s the estimated hard core of members was a couple of hundred with a close knit support of a couple of thousand.

Terrorist groups intimidate way more of their own people than they do the enemy.

Mick, as far as I know, no one knows the true figure for what percentage of Muslims are terrorists. The Muslim religion itself should be the spokesman to set the record straight. They don't come up with any actual figure but when they are pressed, they usually mention a small percentage in the 5% to 10% range. This type of "guestimate" is also used on mainstream news channels regularly. After 9-11, when you viewed video clips from various Arab countries, tens of thousands of their citizens were out there in the city streets in dozens of locations, cheering, carrying banners of Bin Laden and burning American Flags.

School children in Palestine and other Arab countries are taught to hate Israel, hate Jews and hate Americans on a regular basis. A large group of Arab children are indoctrinated from youth to hate with a vengeance anything to do with America or Israel. Even if a cartoon figure of the prophet Mohammed is published, as it was in the Netherlands, murders and riots can take place against the perpetrators. The same is true if a Westerner defaces the Koran even just a little.

Even after the US along with their allies has spent 10 years fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan, the Taliban, though weakened, still retains its ability to fight and make strikes against the Western coalition. Now that they now we are leaving, they are rallying there forces to take over again once we are gone. Terrorist money from Iran is responsible for funding them plus they also buy munitions from Russia.

Its nice that you think the figure would be way lower than 5-10% but do you have anything tangible to back up the way you figure. Even if the figure was as low as 2% - 3% that still gives over 20 to 30 million potential terrorists.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Here lakey . . . hopefully this post will excite some readers . . .

By the way, Ogs, only the author of a thread can see the "who's read it/visited thingie" . . . . so hence the "what list" you've got

This little item . . . not in US main stream media makes you wonder why US main stream media are so fixed on putting the sheeples attention on how bad things are in Greece or Spain!

Here's a little truth closer to home . . . .



Local authority bankruptcies are spreading in the good ol' USofA.

R

The City of Stockton sounds a lot like a C of S Ideal Org. The Ideal Org committee is often able to raise the $5 to $7 million necessary to buy an Ideal Org but they don't have the funds to design and furnish the building and they can't get a good enough price for selling their old quarters so they are unable to move in.

In such a case, there is no one on the premises to do maintenance on the unoccupied ideal org building and after a while the buildings begin to look shabby. Ditto for the old quarters, the Org staff believes that the Org will be vacating soon so only minimum maintenance and gardening are done at the old building as well.

Therefore, both buildings become eyesores which is bad PR for C of S. One thing which is different is that the banks will never take over an abandoned Ideal Org because Scn always pays cash and never borrows money from a bank or other lending institution. At least when I studied Treasury Div Policy, that was the policy, never borrow money from a bank, always pay cash. It seems as if that is one of the few policies which DM has allowed to remain in force.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

On the day I registered on ESMB I made selections that still stand.

To me, there is information others are entitled to and information they are not entitled to.

It would seem that making 'likes' & 'dislikes' plus posts here and there would leave enough of a trail for even the slowest ones to follow.

Stats ? Why - of course - some are still into the glory of stats ( not to mention the use of 'situational' ethics to get 'em up when required !

Stats ! After all some did have to reach the numbers by 2 o'clock today ! So not only do stats matter but that all important 2 o'clock on Thursday is a big deal, too !

Some may have left the cult, now, they need to get their mind out of the cult, too.

It just amazes me the aversion so many people have to discussing stats here on ESMB. Stats are not something that Hubbard thought up or invented. Just look at the newspaper, "The Wall Street Journal". Half the newspaper is just tables and graphs of stats and the other half is disussing these stats and trying to predict how they are going to move.

I was in aerospace as a computer programmer for 9 years. All we did was design and implement computer programs which spit out reams of stats and graphs. These tables of stats helped us get to the moon and also helped in the development of GPS, the Earth's Global Positioning System and in the development of Missile defense. I worked there, ages 22 - 30 without ever having heard of Hubbard.

Some of the simple minded people on ESMB with little or no business experience seem to equate ANY use of stats with Hubbard and his demand for stats by 2:00 PM every Thursday. This is simply not the case, get over it! Hubbard did not invent the use of stats to manage a business or a project.

Stats are stats, they exist outside of Hubbard's and DM's domain. Stats don't equal Hubbard dont equal Thursday at 2:00 0'clock! Stats cam be usefui, informative and fun and people don't have to shy away from mentioning stats because they might offend some ex Scientologists or remind them of an unpleasant time when they had to produce a weekly stat for C of S.

Its good to be sensitive and not mention something which may offend an ex Scio but on something so all encompassing and general as the subject of statistics I don't feel it at all necessary to avoid mentioning them.
Lakey

 

[FoTi]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

It just amazes me the aversion so many people have to discussing stats here on ESMB. Stats are not something that Hubbard thought up or invented. Just look at the newspaper, "The Wall Street Journal". Half the newspaper is just tables and graphs of stats and the other half is disussing these stats and trying to predict how they are going to move.

I was in aerospace as a computer programmer for 9 years. All we did was design and implement computer programs which spit out reams of stats and graphs. These tables of stats helped us get to the moon and also helped in the development of GPS, the Earth's Global Positioning System and in the development of Missile defense. I worked there, ages 22 - 30 without ever having heard of Hubbard.

Some of the simple minded people on ESMB with little or no business experience seem to equate ANY use of stats with Hubbard and his demand for stats by 2:00 PM every Thursday. This is simply not the case, get over it! Hubbard did not invent the use of stats to manage a business or a project.

Stats are stats, they exist outside of Hubbard's and DM's domain. Stats don't equal Hubbard dont equal Thursday at 2:00 0'clock! Stats cam be usefui, informative and fun and people don't have to shy away from mentioning stats because they might offend some ex Scientologists or remind them of an unpleasant time when they had to produce a weekly stat for C of S.

Its good to be sensitive and not mention something which may offend an ex Scio but on something so all encompassing and general as the subject of statistics I don't feel it at all necessary to avoid mentioning stats.
Lakey

Any company I've ever seen that relies on it's sales to survive operates on stats and targets. If the sales people don't keep their stats up, they eventually get fired because the company can't afford to keep them on and pay them. Sales people also get rewards and bonuses in relation to their stats. The Church of Scientology is a business....it runs on stats, just like other businesses outside of Scientology. They are all in business to make money.....but, somehow, Scientologists don't seem to notice that most of the time.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Heya Lakey, I understand what you're saying, but keep in mind another aspect of it, and that is that there are lots of members, new and old, who aren't particularly computer savy and will find things and go "Ooooooo, what does this button do?" r' some-such. Pretty sure there's no conspiracy or what-ever
No worries mate!



:dancer:

No Ogs, no conspiracy, it was just a minor point which I noticed and thought strange so I shared it with the thread. Its no big deal - not worth wasting any more words on it. Thanks for your interest!
Lakey

 

[Hatshepsut]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Lakey, did I ever tell you that your avatar reminds me of Rocky. I took him in as a stray and kept him for 14 yrs until he died. He was killed three yrs ago. I am reminded of him every time I see one of your posts...

 

[Mick Wenlock]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Mick, as far as I know, no one knows the true figure for what percentage of Muslims are terrorists. The Muslim religion itself should be the spokesman to set the record straight. They don't come up with any actual figure but when they are pressed, they usually mention a small percentage in the 5% to 10% range. This type of "guestimate" is also used on mainstream news channels regularly. After 9-11, when you viewed video clips from various Arab countries, tens of thousands of their citizens were out there in the city streets in dozens of locations, cheering, carrying banners of Bin Laden and burning American Flags.

School children in Palestine and other Arab countries are taught to hate Israel, hate Jews and hate Americans on a regular basis. A large group of Arab children are indoctrinated from youth to hate with a vengeance anything to do with America or Israel. Even if a cartoon figure of the prophet Mohammed is published, as it was in the Netherlands, murders and riots can take place against the perpetrators. The same is true if a Westerner defaces the Koran even just a little.

Even after the US along with their allies has spent 10 years fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan, the Taliban, though weakened, still retains its ability to fight and make strikes against the Western coalition. Now that they now we are leaving, they are rallying there forces to take over again once we are gone. Terrorist money from Iran is responsible for funding them plus they also buy munitions from Russia.

Its nice that you think the figure would be way lower than 5-10% but do you have anything tangible to back up the way you figure. Even if the figure was as low as 2% - 3% that still gives over 20 to 30 million potential terrorists.
Lakey

Well the only thing to go on is to use figures where we already know the amounts

Population of Ireland, north and south? 6.5 million - terrorists? - around 200. Percentage? 0.003% And that is in a country where both sides have been at war and insurrection for nearly a thousand years and where being a member of a terrorist organization - at least for a while, was a badge of honor.

Baader Meinhof? 30 people out of a population of 35 million, a percentage of around 0.00001. Red Brigades? same deal.

I am not trying to belittle the idea that there are terrorists in the Middle east and that they represent a threat. What I am trying to show you is that selecting an arbitrary number as being "low" - as in "even if the figure was as low as 2 to 3 percent") is a logical fallacy. a figure of " 2 or 3 percent" is not low or high without any context to put it in.

I picked three terorist organizations that I know, roughly, the figures of and all three of those (and even the Irgun Zvi Leumi and Stern Gang of the Jewish resistance in the 1940's) have percentages of the population that are way way way lower than you are assuming.

So do your math the other way round - out of a world wide population of Muslims of 1 billion - how many terrorists did Al Qaeda create? Maybe a thousand?

Thats a percentage of 0.00001 ( I think - I may have a 0 too much). But it shows that your figures are about 4 or 5 orders of magnitude too high. And that's from an organization that had money to bankroll an organization.

If yuo had a crowd fanatically chanting "death to America" and burning flags - even if the crowd were 20,000 strong in Teheran - and that would be a big crowd - it would still be an order of magnitude less than the percentage point you are offering.

BTW I realize that Al Qaeda is not the only terrorist organization in the arab world of course - there are Hamas and Hizbollah etc - but even in total numbers they are small, as percentages they are microscopic.

yes indeed Palestinian children are "taught to hate Jews" the surprising thing is that it still does not create armies of terrorists.

Yes riots get provoked if the name of Allah is insulted and death threats are issued but LOOK at the numbers - not the publicity.

As Lenin said "The purpose of terrorism is to terrorize" an organization of people of the number of 20 to 50 if they are prepared to do anything to hurt maim and destroy, can affect MILLIONS of people. Look at those two psychos in DC who were sniping at people and killed what - 10 people. Millions of people traumatized, hundreds of man hours of police work.

Or apply your math to the rest of the world - are you seriously asserting that there are 6 to 9 million terrorists in the USA? Or 1 to 1.5 million in the UK? That's what the "low" figure of 2 to 3 % gives you. There are certainly very dangerous psychopathic people in the world thats for sure but I doubt your assumptions on figures.

And using a dreamed up percentage as a basis for argumentation merely proves the assertion that terrorism does get results - out of all proportion to the amount of terrorists. The purpose of terrorism is to provoke an oversized reaction.

I am no fan of religion at all. But one thing I do KNOW - the ordinary Mohammed, Bashira, Shlomo, Rebecca, Joe, Jean, Fred, Alice, Rasta, Gina, Pierre, Pauline, Gunter, Magda Ivan, Ludmilla, Santiago, Frieda, Seamus, Maeve "in the street" is just an ordinary person who wants to go to work, earn enough for a few (insert your favorite beverages) at the weekend, enjoy life, partner and family and live a decent life.

 

[Smilla]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Lakey, did I ever tell you that your avatar reminds me of Rocky. I took him in as a stray and kept him for 14 yrs until he died. He was killed three yrs ago. I am reminded of him every time I see one of your posts...

Gorgeous, gorgeous, handsome cat!

 

[Hatshepsut]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Collateral being demanded from debtors. Europe being asked to put up Art as hostage.

______

[video=youtube;oEX24Cwu08o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=oEX24Cwu08o[/video]

France and Germany have enough art treasures under wraps. Will they come to take away Italy's.