The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[RogerB]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Since you like to see a good man dance, Hats, try this as one of my favorite funnies . . . Clarke Gable at his "best."

[video]http://youtu.be/Ij22kyvf2ps[/video]

Is that a load of charm, or what?

R

 

[Hatshepsut]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I never considered




I never considered Clark Gable to be a song and dance man. I guess nobody else did either. This was his only gig doing this apparently in Idiot's Delight___ a 1939 film which had much competition that year. That is Norma Shearer in the back.

Clark sure couldn't sing.

Thanks Rog

 

[Hatshepsut]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

[video]http://youtu.be/3FfGrZKpMaw[/video]

I liked Clark Gable best in the film he made twice. The film Red Dust was made with Jean Harlow and then remade under the name Mogambo with Eva Gardner.

[video]http://youtu.be/joQ4BvtKLtk[/video]

Jean was later played by Eva
Mary Astor's role was later played by Grace Kelly

hiss spit

hiss spit

 

[Hatshepsut]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

http://gizadeathstar.com/2012/02/apocalypse-theater-the-hidden-nuclear-powers/

Germany got mo dan everbody.

 

[Smilla]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

http://gizadeathstar.com/2012/02/apocalypse-theater-the-hidden-nuclear-powers/

Germany got mo dan everbody.

The Nazis have definitely installed themselves deeply into the USA and other countries and institutions. There's no doubt about that whatsoever. Nazism is alive, well, and thriving, just visible at the periphery of our vision.

http://www.sinisterforces.info/

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Since you like to see a good man dance, Hats, try this as one of my favorite funnies . . . Clarke Gable at his "best."

[video]http://youtu.be/Ij22kyvf2ps[/video]

Is that a load of charm, or what?

R

It seems like most of the big stars of the first half of the 20th century received training in dance, tap dancing and voice and most of them had talent to boot. I had no idea that Clark Gable had that kind of talent in song and dance. This trend seems to have continued through the early 60's, when this type of dancing was still popular with the public. After that it became old school, for senior citizens mostly - such as the fans of Lawrence Welk.

John Travolta brought it back in the mid 70's for a time. Michael Jackson put his own spin on the genre and took it to new heights.

In the old days, performers were taught dance and voice formally and were quite proficient at it. In recent times, some performers can make it big with the public by virtue of a certain sound or look which they have or some sort of gimmick. Formal training isn't always required anymore.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

http://gizadeathstar.com/2012/02/apocalypse-theater-the-hidden-nuclear-powers/

Germany got mo dan everbody.

The thing about Iran is its "saber rattling" and its Holocaust denial. Also there seems to be a strong faction within Islam which desires to bring death to infidels in Allah's glorious name with the concept of being honored for doing so in the afterlife.

Most Westerners know very little about how true this is, but the suicide bombings and terrorist activities carried out around the world illustrate that it is not total PR. If all one has to go on are Western media outlets, which is the case for most US citizens, when you hear and see threats being made by the official Iranian regime to totally wipe out Israel and bring down the USA you just don't want them to attain nuclear weapon capability.

The concept of having to be "fair" to a dangerous regime with a madman as its spokesman and leader is very infantile.

If a nation felt threatened by its neighbors being nuclear armed while they were not, shouldn't they be discrete in pleading their case to the International community. Denying the Holocaust at every turn and threatening to wipe Israel off the map at every opportunity is a stupid thing to do for a country if it wants other nations to leave it alone and let it a develop a nuclear arsenal.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

The Nazis have definitely installed themselves deeply into the USA and other countries and institutions. There's no doubt about that whatsoever. Nazism is alive, well, and thriving, just visible at the periphery of our vision.

http://www.sinisterforces.info/

Could you give a couple of examples of this. I have seen excellent movies on this theme which you espouse such as the "Odessa File" from the 1974 and the "Boys from Brazil" from 1978 but here in 2012, there are now very few ex Nazi's still alive from the war days and they are way up in years.

Right after WWII when the Cold War with the Soviet Union started, it was imperative for US nattional security that our govenment recruit and hire ex Nazi officials and scientists for our intelligence networks and our armaments and rocketry activities. Thus Werner von Braun, ex Nazi, became one of the heads of our Rocket and aerospace programs. The CIA also employed some ex Nazi bigwigs.

I was in Germany in 2009. There is little or no open evidence of any Nazism there now. I was walking by a soldiers' monument in Berlin with a statue of a soldier as its centerpiece. I went up to look at it and to my dismay, it was a memorial to Soviet soldiers who liberated Germany from the Nazi oppressors! So it was in all the museums and in the part of Berlin which was previously East Berlin.

The Nazi's are presented as outsiders who hijacked the German government and started a war to carry out their evil goals. The Soviets are looked at as the liberators who liberated Gemany from the Nazi's. I am sure there are still some diehard Nazi sympathizers in Germany but they have to keep a low profile.

Similarly for Jews. Major Jewish museums in the major cities, i.e. 3 or 4 in Frankfurt and several in Berlin. There are several boulevards named for Jews in the big cities and the composer Felix Mendelssohn has streets named after him and statues of him in Berlin. Here in the states, not much Mendelssohn is played but in Berlin, his music is played at half the concerts.

My point is that it is unlikely that actual living ex Nazis are running groups to assist former Nazis and promote a Nazi agenda or revival in today's world. As far as younger people now running new Nazi groups or planning for a revival of an official movement, I don't see that happening at all. There are always a few skin head, white racist types around, but they are fringe groups who don't have any power or money. Perhaps you are referring to the people on the left of the US political spectrum who are against Israel and feel it is illegally occupying Palestinian land.

Could you give a little more data on which groups you are referring to?
Lakey

 

[Smilla]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Israel can, and will, do anything it needs to do to defend itself. Anybody who doesn't like that can go and whistle as far as I'm concerned. Every nation has the absolute right to defend itself, and in the face of threats and a clear and present danger, has the right to do so preemptively.

So don't mess with us Iran, or we will set the girls on you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4kjNIL8prM

 

[purple haze]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Since you like to see a good man dance, Hats, try this as one of my favorite funnies . . . Clarke Gable at his "best."

[video]http://youtu.be/Ij22kyvf2ps[/video]

Is that a load of charm, or what?

R

I LOVE IT, Rog.

Aloha, Candy

 

[purple haze]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

CandyLand Tech:

triangle with: at apex: SHARING
................................ /............\
................................/...............\
............................../...................\
............................/.......................\
at base left: CARING ___________ LOVING at base right


Sharing, Caring & Loving: the ingredients to make life delicious, appetizing and amazing.

Do with it what thou wilt.
Use at own free will.
Freely given as a potential missing link in dear Ron's subject matter.

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
Copyrighted by Candy Swanson Class VIII
June 5, 2012
Solvang, CA

 

[RogerB]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Yes, Purple, that skit by Clarke is one that blew me away when I first saw it years ago. One of the most fun things I'd ever seen.

He does have a certain talent, Lakey . . . but he dances like a lizard with rigor mortis !

Rog

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Israel can, and will, do anything it needs to do to defend itself. Anybody who doesn't like that can go and whistle as far as I'm concerned. Every nation has the absolute right to defend itself, and in the face of threats and a clear and present danger, has the right to do so preemptively.

So don't mess with us Iran, or we will set the girls on you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4kjNIL8prM

Thanks Smila, I thought you were probably referring to the batch of Israel haters who have emerged at the United Nations and a lot of other places. For some reason, those on the left politically, the "Progressives" seem to strongly favor the Palestinian position over the Israeli position. Probably their bias stems from religious considerations. Progressives have disdain for most religions, in particular Judeo-Christian religions which pray to the God of the Bible. For some reason, they give Islam a pass and are neutral or favorable to that religion.

I would agree with you that Anti-Semitism seems to be on the rise. A better term is probably Anti-Zionism. Most of those against Israel whom I have heard speak are not so much against the practice of the Jewish religion but rather they are against the existence of the state of Israel on lands more recently controlled by Islamic people.

However, I would not call this Nazism. Anti Semitism existed long before Hitler founded Nazism and it is not surprising that it still exists after Nazism has been defeated.
Lakey

 

[Axiom142]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Thanks Smila, I thought you were probably referring to the batch of Israel haters who have emerged at the United Nations and a lot of other places.

...

Lakey

If someone criticises the state of Israel, the Israeli government / armed forces or individual Israelis, does that make them an ‘Israel hater’ or anti-semite?

Axiom142

 

[Smilla]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Could you give a couple of examples of this. I have seen excellent movies on this theme which you espouse such as the "Odessa File" from the 1974 and the "Boys from Brazil" from 1978 but here in 2012, there are now very few ex Nazi's still alive from the war days and they are way up in years.

The ideology hasn't died even if most of the known principles have. The ideology lives on in various 'white supremacist' and other groups, on and up into the highest levels of society. Latin America is a Nazi stronghold. The Bush (Busch) family are noteable examples in the US. I'll suggest some avenues for exploration of this at the end of this post.

Right after WWII when the Cold War with the Soviet Union started, it was imperative for US nattional security that our govenment recruit and hire ex Nazi officials and scientists for our intelligence networks and our armaments and rocketry activities. Thus Werner von Braun, ex Nazi, became one of the heads of our Rocket and aerospace programs. The CIA also employed some ex Nazi bigwigs.

Scholarly estimates place the number of Nazis who were taken to the US as being between 12 and 30 thousand. That's a lot of Nazis. The relevant records are still top secret.

Werner Von Braun was an SS Major. Nobody joined the SS for any other reason than that they totally believed in Nazism, up to the point of being willing to die, or kill others, for it. Von Braun was a war criminal who was protected by the US government even though he was guilty of the crime of working slave labourers literally to death. He never spoke one word of regret about this. The same applies to other Nazi scientists who were brought to the US in Operation Paperclip - far too much information for me to present here. I am using the term Nazi here as distinct from German.

"On August 15, 1944, von Brauns wrote a letter to Albin Sawatzki, manager of the V-2 production, admitting that he personally picked labor slaves from the Buchenwald concentration camp, who, he admitted 25 years later in an interview, had been in a "pitiful shape".[not in citation given][2]"

Guy Morand, a French resistance fighter who was a prisoner in Dora, testified in 1995 that after an apparent sabotage attempt:

Without even listening to my explanations, [von Braun] ordered the Meister to have me given 25 strokes...Then, judging that the strokes weren't sufficiently hard, he ordered I be flogged more vigorously...von Braun made me translate that I deserved much more, that in fact I deserved to be hanged...I would say his cruelty, of which I was personally a victim, are, I would say, an eloquent testimony to his Nazi fanaticism.[39]
​

Robert Cazabonne, another French prisoner, testified that von Braun stood by and watched as prisoners were hung by chains from hoists.[40] Von Braun claimed he "never saw any kind of abuse or killing" and only "heard rumors...that some prisoners had been hanged in the underground galleries".[41]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun

Re Nazis and the CIA. and more.


I was in Germany in 2009. There is little or no open evidence of any Nazism there now. I was walking by a soldiers' monument in Berlin with a statue of a soldier as its centerpiece. I went up to look at it and to my dismay, it was a memorial to Soviet soldiers who liberated Germany from the Nazi oppressors! So it was in all the museums and in the part of Berlin which was previously East Berlin.

That statue is known as The Statue of the Unknown Rapist to Berliners. Of course there is no open display of Nazism in Berlin - it is illegal , but I can tell you from personal experience that it is there, and growing.

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2010/September/Neo-Nazism-Spirit-of-Hitler-Still-Alive-in-Germany/

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2010/September/Neo-Nazism-Spirit-of-Hitler-Still-Alive-in-Germany/

The Nazi's are presented as outsiders who hijacked the German government and started a war to carry out their evil goals. The Soviets are looked at as the liberators who liberated Gemany from the Nazi's. I am sure there are still some diehard Nazi sympathizers in Germany but they have to keep a low profile.

That is utterly false.The Nazi Party was massively massively popular with the German people. People from all social, and economic groups were ardent supporters and many many remained so after the war. It's not like somebody through a switch and everyone stopped believing!

Similarly for Jews. Major Jewish museums in the major cities, i.e. 3 or 4 in Frankfurt and several in Berlin. There are several boulevards named for Jews in the big cities and the composer Felix Mendelssohn has streets named after him and statues of him in Berlin. Here in the states, not much Mendelssohn is played but in Berlin, his music is played at half the concerts.

So what? Anti-semitic attacks are on the rise everywhere.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/anti-semitic-incidents-rise-in-germany-australia-u-s-in-2007-1.238050

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/08/police-patrols-antisemitism-jewish-community

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...-spotlights-rise-in-antisemitism-2226787.html

http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/...emitic-attacks-in-french-speaking-switzerland

My point is that it is unlikely that actual living ex Nazis are running groups to assist former Nazis and promote a Nazi agenda or revival in today's world. As far as younger people now running new Nazi groups or planning for a revival of an official movement, I don't see that happening at all. There are always a few skin head, white racist types around, but they are fringe groups who don't have any power or money. Perhaps you are referring to the people on the left of the US political spectrum who are against Israel and feel it is illegally occupying Palestinian land.

What is an ex Nazi? Obviously, the original Nazis have more or less died out, but the ideology is alive and well, all over the world - in high, as well as low places.

Could you give a little more data on which groups you are referring to?
Lakey

Background
Significant Nazi revivalists
Holocaust Denial
Neo-Nazism and the law
Neo-Nazism in Germany
Neo-Nazism in Austria
Neo-Nazism in Croatia
Neo-Nazism in Greece
Neo-Nazism in the USA
Neo-Nazism in the UK
Neo-Nazism in Russia
Social roots
Ideology
Activities
Neo-Nazism in Scandinavia
Neo-Nazism in other countries


I'd recommend that you read up on 'Operation Paperclip' as a starting point. Can't say more just now - hurt myself in a riding accident, and need to go soak in the bath!

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

...

 

[Smilla]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

If someone criticises the state of Israel, the Israeli government / armed forces or individual Israelis, does that make them an ‘Israel hater’ or anti-semite?

Axiom142

Not in my book. Anyone who does wrong should be brought to book, tried, and punished where a case and evidence exists, regardless of nationality or religion. Israel has done some appalling things that should be loudly condemned by anyone who cares about human rights. I shout louder than most about those things. As a Jew from a family of Middle-Eastern origin, I'm a very close relative of any Palestinian or other Arab, and have a love of that culture. I view anti-arabism/anti-muslimism with the same distaste as I view the hatred of Jews. There's no difference to me.

 

[FoTi]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0GWCk9wnak&feature=related

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Background
Significant Nazi revivalists
Holocaust Denial
Neo-Nazism and the law
Neo-Nazism in Germany
Neo-Nazism in Austria
Neo-Nazism in Croatia
Neo-Nazism in Greece
Neo-Nazism in the USA
Neo-Nazism in the UK
Neo-Nazism in Russia
Social roots
Ideology
Activities
Neo-Nazism in Scandinavia
Neo-Nazism in other countries


I'd recommend that you read up on 'Operation Paperclip' as a starting point. Can't say more just now - hurt myself in a riding accident, and need to go soak in the bath!

Well, you've done a lot more research on this than I have so I am not going to challenge you except about your assertion that joining the Nazi party ALWAYS meant total acceptance of all Hitler's beliefs. Albert Speer, Hitler's hand picked architect who was later appointed to Minister of Armaments Production, was not anti-semitic. I've read a lot about Speer and also read the books he wrote while serving 20 years in Spandau prison for war crimes. If there is such a thing as a good Nazi, Speer iss the best example. Speer never had any hatred for Jews. He joined the Party, not in agreement with Hitler about the Jewish people. Towards the end of the war he worked against Hitler, refusing to obey his orders to blow up German infrastructure. After the war he took responsibility for his part in WWII.

Speer would be like someone who joined the Sea Org, being attracted to L Ron Hubbard and SOME of his major principles. I signed the contract, not actually believing that psychiatry was at the root of all mankind's ills. Plenty of other people joined who did not agree 100% in lockstep with Hubbard. The Nazi's had some who agreed in principle with most of the planks of the Nazi party but did not believe as Hitler did regarding the Jews. I admit these were probably a minority of party members.

There are a lot of parallels with signing a Sea Org contract, devoting your next 1 billion years to Hubbard. Things sound good a first; Hubbard had a very uplifting message and offered a lot of hope. After actually experiencing what's its like being in and seeing and living all the bullshit, people start leaving the fold. I think joining the Nazi Party had some parallels. The people were swept up by the rhetoric and promises and saw these being delivered in in the early days of the 3rd Reich. Once the bombs started falling and the soldiers started being killed by the millions, many people dissolved all ties with the movement as soon as they were able to do so.

On the Werner von Braun situation, I believe the USA made the right move by working with him. If they didn't, then he would have ended up with the Soviets. With the Cold War going on. The US Government choose benefiting from Braun's services over the option of administering justice to him. How could they choose otherwise?

I believe that Werner von Braun was mainly interested in developing rockets. He was a pioneer and a genius in that field. Had he been born in Russia, he would have joined the Communist Party and worked for Stalin, had he been born in the USA or in England, he would have worked for those governments. The fact was, however, that he was born in Germany. He wanted government support to fund his rocket research. He probably joined the Nazi Party because he thought that would enhance his chances of getting the Nazi government to fund him. The Nazi's had little interest in going into outer space. What they were looking for were secret weapons to ensure that they would prevail in the war. That is why they funded von Braun's program. He didn't care that much about politics and they only cared about weaponry. He joined the party mainly to have his program funded.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

If someone criticises the state of Israel, the Israeli government / armed forces or individual Israelis, does that make them an ‘Israel hater’ or anti-semite?

Axiom142

Of course not!! I agree with what Smila says above.
Lakey