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The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

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Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Really effective looking ship!


It's a Rothesay Class Frigate. I served on it for only six months - doing national service, which was for nine months in those days. Three months spent on basics and learning to be a sonar operator, and then six months on the ship. It was a good time for me. I loved it out at sea - I really felt at home there. We exercised for about a month with a British submarine - HMS Aeneas. The ship was only a year old and we did a lot of sea time which, down in the Cape of Storms, can be quite rough during winter.

I remember another brand new ship at the time USS Enterprise - the first nuclear powered aircraft carrier - coming around the Cape on its way to Viet Nam. We went out to meet them at sea and they put on quite a show for us with planes taking off and landing all the time. We were quite close too and could see it all. Very impressive to young hicks like us. There were two other nuclear ships with it - one was Long Beach and the other Bainbridge. I still remember the names.
 
Re: Ken Ogger, The Pilot speaks from the dead

Pilot's Autobiography
Possibly not published before 2012


[June 2012: Intro by Antony: Before the Pilot's identity was revealed to the “Church” by his wife, and the “Church” did not know who he was, he contacted me and a few other people, and was in touch with us, in fact I set up a private Internet list for that little group. He sent me and Heidrun Beer the following, which I do not think has been published until now. I have made no attempt to correct the spelling – I think many rather liked his lack of finesse as regards spelling! Probably spell checkers were new at that time. It is a funny (that is: funny-peculiar, not funny-ha-ha) coincidence that I should run into this forgotten letter now, due to being involved in a computer change. Antony Phillips]

From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: bio
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:41:32 PST
X-Mailer: Excite Mail
X-Sender-Ip: 206.117.249.5
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


To Antony & Heidrun,

It looks like I did accidently give you enough information to
pin down who I am when I told you the BofA (Bank of America)
story.

Ralph pointed out to me that the LA times story that mentions
my name won a pulitzer prize and is up on the net at
http://www.latimes.com/HOME/NEWS/REPORTS/PULITZER_98/N_HOLLYWOOD/violent_scr
ipt.htm [link no longer valid]

My worry has never been about either of you personally, but
only about the secruity of your files, emails, and the
trustwortyness of people whom you might directly or indirectly
leak information to.

My own flub with this BofA story shows how easy it is to
pass on an interesting tale without realizing that if OSA
heard it, they would have my name that same afternoon.

For that reason, I initially only revealed my identity to
Ralph, Paul, & Homer. And Homer felt that his primary duty
is to keep lightlink and the archives up no matter what
happens, and so he felt that he shouldn't be included in
secret stuff except on a need to know basis.

You probably don't realize how dangerous that BofA story
is because you don't have a list of OT 7 completions to
compare to the Times story, but OSA does.

Since you are now in a position of being able to leak my
identity accidentally, we might as well have the benefits
that come along with the dangers, so here is the brief
bio that I wrote for Ralph etc.

Note that my biggest concern is in protecting Louise rather
than myself. In case you don't know the old Commodore Staff
positions, CS-5 was the equivallent of the modern head
of the RTC.


--------------


Sooper Secret. Eyes Only. Don't leak or hint.

Somebody should know who I am just incase the Marcabians
abduct me or something. And if I just say my name, it
would be meaningless to most people, but OSA would get
everything else from my PC folder if they found out,
so I might as well do a real writeup.


Brief Bio -

You probably don't know me.

My name is Ken Ogger.

I grew up in Manhattan.

I was raised by my grandparents (Margaret & Arthur Ogger) but
told that they were my parents. After I learned the truth,
Margaret would get very upset if the subject was discussed, so
I continued to refer to my actual mother (Louise Kelly) as
my sister, hence people who know us will be used to us refering
to each other as brother and sister. Especially as we always
treated each other that way. The name on my birth certificate
is Kenneth Hart (from Louise's brief teenage marriage), but I've
never used it.

Margaret, Louise, and another sister/aunt named Liane were
all into metaphysics very heavily. I grew up in this atmosphere
as did the younger children in the family (my half brother
Richard and Liane's three daughters).

By the time I was 13, we were doing table tipping seance's
that had the table rising into the air on a regular basis.
Also, Louise had accumulated a tremendous library of metaphysical
books and was doing Rosecrucian drills among other things.

Margaret owned a deli and then later had a business making
potato salid wholesale for other New York delis. Louise
was managing Mellon Music's New York office (which makes her
one of the few SO execs that had significant wog management
experience).

I was in my teens, reading everything in sight, and searching
for truth. Arthur (who had been an accountant) had died when
I was 11 and this may have been another reason besides the
metaphysical exposure which was driving me to search for
answers.

In 1965 I read Evolution of a Science and felt that I had
finally found the way out.

I joined foundation staff at the New York Org in 1966. I was
still going to high school during the day. My first post
was mimeo, and I read everything as I was running it off.
Initially the org was tiny (maybe 20 people on each shift)
but went through a soaring expansion and had about 150 on
each shift by early 1968.

In 1967 I finished SS II and started the OEC and was also
doing auditor training.

In 1968 I completed Class 4 and also was run on Power and
went into a keyed out OT state.

My family had been dubious of Scientology, feeling that
they were more advanced spiritually but I visited them
on Easter weekend of 1968 while I was still in the keyed
out state and demonstrated enough to convince them that
Scientology was the road out.

One odd and interesting thing was that Liane had regularly
recorded our palm prints because of her interest in
palmistry and she took a new print and brought out the
old ones and it was obvious to all of us that every
line in my hands had changed totally, apparantly from
getting run on power.

Louise and her son Richard immediately got on course full
time and trained to class 4, joined the Sea Org, and
went to LA on the "flight to freedom" that founded the AO.
Louise quickly finished Class 8 and became Qual Sec at
the AO, later moving up to being Qual Sec on the flagship
Apollo and was acting Commodore Staff 5 in between
Judy Ziff and John Eastman. Eventually, when Ron was
no longer around to protect her, the bad hats RPFed her
and so she routed out of the Sea Org.

Aside - when she was in the RPF, her replacement as CS-5,
John Eastman, visited her to find out how bad it was because
he was being threatened with being RPFed too. Apparently
it was dreaful enough because he folded and decided to
play ball with the young turks rather than make trouble
and end up in the RPF. That was around 1979 (I'm not
trying to keep this rambling bio in date order).

As for myself, I hung on as a NY staff member until 1971 and
then left upon completing my contract. By then I had
held numerous posts including DofT, DofP, Cramming,
DPV, Ethics, etc. You have already heard most of my own
story.

Eventually I got into computers, doing things such as
designing Citicorp's online ATM authorizing systems
(I was the software architect of their OFS (online financial
systems) program).

I moved to LA in 1978 and went through old OT 7 in the
following year or two.

As I have said elsewhere, I searched out LRH tapes
and studied them endlessly. I found the complete 20th
ACC in LA Org's qual tape cabinet and New York had had
the complete 16th, for example. I spent a fortune on
reels and later on cassettes. And I found other tape
fanatics and worked deals where we would borrow each
other's tapes.

I got NOTS at AO and then went to Flag for Solo Nots
within about a year of its being released. The big
EP happened the next year after having been on the level
about 6 or 8 months.

Then came the endless overruns, messed up reviews, and
heavy ARC breaks. I didn't seem to meet various hidden
standards about OT 7 completions (I'm not very PR).

Since I started before the "return every 6 months" rule
and had never signed an agreement to return that often,
they had no threat to force me back with and I reached
the point where I wasn't going back again for more overrun.

Then they launched the ship and started delivering OT 8,
and to get the ship full they made it easier to attest
to OT 7.

Finally the C/S promised that I would be allowed to
attest if I went back to Flag one more time, and so I
did that. My completion number was, I think, somewhere
in the 700s. The reg was drooling over the idea of getting
me to the ship, but of course I didn't bite after having
been left hanging for so many years.

When the mass exodus began in the early 80s, I decided
to ignore policy and keep in comm with various friends
who joined the independent field. So I freequently saw
Jim Kitzmiller (we did contracting work together) while
he was getting his NOTS at Valerie Stansfields and I
occasionally had lunch with Tom Franklin (old friend from
New York) who was active in CADA. Also, another old
friend was getting audited by Filbert, so I met him and
read a bit of his manuscript.

Finally I dived into doing my own solo research and found
and ran the penalty universes as described in super scio.
It was after this, that I finally went back to flag and
attested to S/NOTS. That included a sec check but I
had a floating TA from the penalty universe handling, so
nothing came up.

I even got through a sec check at Incomm a few years ago.
Still persistant FNing on everything. They needed a consultant
to fix the mess they had made of their accounting system.
They had used wog consultants who didn't understand policy
and every Scientologist who did know policy whom they had
proposed to bring on had been rejected for security reasons.
So they thought that I was the solution because I was a
solo nots completion. I demanded a very high hourly
contracting rate and they got it approved. The work had
to be done at Gilman and I was getting briefed when my
folders came back from uplines with the necessary security
clearance rejected. The folks at Incomm in the Complex
still can't understand why wogs could get an ok to go
work on the computers at Gilman but even an s/nots completion
in good standing couldn't. Very funny.

I am still theoretically in good standing.

Currently I work as a programmer and software architect.
My latest position is at Chasecredit. They do credit
reports for home buyers, pulling data from TRW etc.
I'm the guru for their online system. Their website
is www.chasecredit.com, but I have very little to do with
their internet stuff (except for being trotted out as
their internet security chief when they have to sell
TRW on their technical expertise). In a real emergency
you can email me directly as [email protected],
but I prefer not to use that one at all for this stuff
and you should memorize the address rather than recording
it anywhere.

I live relatively near the complex. I have lots of
friends from the old days. Many of the old New Yorkers
rose very high in the SO.

-----

I was a math genius. I passed Mensa's entrance requirements
and belonged to their organization briefly before I tired
of the bullshit. I had 798 of a possible 800 on the College
Boards (SATs) for Math (and a composite of over 1500). I even
got some damn math award from some institute during my senior
year of high school. Back in 9th grade I had founded the
chess club at McBurney prep, beaten all contenders, and
become the school champion (no I'm not a chess master,
I've hardly played since then, barely an A level player).
I was a near miss on the National Merit test.

My grades roller coastered (sometimes straight As, sometimes
failures) due to both lazyness and because I enjoyed
making fools of teachers who were dumber than I was
(I was in a big make wrong). Even so, I got a scholarship
and went to NYU.

I enrolled in a pre-med concentration (took Organic
Chemistry) with a Music Major (took Music Theory) and
with a special dispensation for advanced math classes
(took honors calculus with the director of the Courant
Institute). This was 1967.

At the same time I was Director of Tech Services on NY
foundation staff with about 7 juniors under me (the
org was huge, St Hill size at that time). I had gotten
on foundation staff back when I was a senior in high
school.

And I was training in the academy for a couple of hours
after post almost every night, not just doing levels
but listening to every damn extra tape that I could
find to fill out the materials and get more understanding.

It's a wonder that I didn't have a nervous breakdown,
burning the candle at both ends. Instead I got run on
grade 5 and keyed out OT.

Then, after half a year of college, I decided to drop
out and get on BOTH shifts at NY org because I believed
in the tech. The university was shocked, considered me
a genius, and insisted on giving me an unlimited leave
of absence, but I never went back.

As for me, I had abandoned everything for the tech,
and the reward was that OT phenomena was starting to
happen around me. I was happy as a clam.

That is, until heavy ethics, standard tech, and all the
other mess dragged me back into the mud as the insanities
escallated throughout 1968-9.

By 1969 I was a shadow of my former self. The last
bright spot was the time when I blew staff and easily got
a job as a cost accountant for a Monsanto subsidiary
(unbelievable for a 19 year old college dropout, but I
could just do things like that pretty much by postulate).
But after a few months of making real money I let Wayne
Marple talk me into getting back on staff.

By 1970 I couldn't postulate my way out of a paper bag.
That's in contrast to being in a state where I'd just
wish for a 7-UP and the waitress (without being asked)
would just put one down in front of me and say that
I could have it for free because she had drawn it by
mistake (true story from 1968).

When I left staff for the last time in 1971 I was in
complete shell shock. I just loafed and mooched off
my family for quite a few months and then worked a super
market cash register for a few months more, it was
that bad.

Finally with my back to the wall I picked up a low
paying job as an accounts payable adjuster for a
department store chain (Korvetts). I stayed there
until 1975, slowly recovering from the dead. During
that period I was married to my first wife, Jenny,
who later married Dave Silberstein and joined the
SO and the two of them worked at ASHO for a few
years before routing out.

Around 1974 I started getting back to my former self
and went in to the NY org, got a bit of auditing and
retreaded class 0. An expanded grades co-audit
got me to expaned grade 2 and I went clear OT on
it. With that the OT state came back.

I decided that I should have a better profession,
looked around and decided that computers was the
thing to learn.

That week a friend called me up (out of the blue,
incredible!) and offered to teach me programming.
I did my usual of reading everything in sight around
the clock and got a job teaching programming (!)
a few weeks later. After eight months of that I
became a senior systems programmer at a New York
bank. The year after that I became a technical
leader at Chase Manhattan, and then in 1978 I
moved to LA and started consulting. In 1979 I
got my first big contract and designed Sou Calif
Edison's power plant maintence tracking software
(I even spent a month down at the nuclear plant
reading everything in sight). Eventually in the
1980s I took a high perks job as one of Citicorp's
handfull of systems architects and stayed there
until the end of the 80s. They were flying me
around the country a lot and it was convienient
for stopping off at Flag occasionally.

Through all these years, the OT state has been rare
and sporatic. When its there, my wishes seem to
come true, wild and improbable things happen.
Objects moving is the rarest manifestation, pure
serendipity is the most common.

But I am not there most of the time. Usually I
suffer under the weight of the Mest universe and
the feeling of being trapped.

Some might think that it is simply that when I have
good luck it makes me feel good and so I think
that I am OT. But the sequence is the opposite.
It is always that first I have the wonderful feeling
and the awareness and the certainty, and then comes
the miraculous phone call or the improbable job
offer.

But I can't enter the state at will or get to it
by logic. Sometimes it comes from processing, but
I can't get to it a second time with the same
process, it is a key out effect rather than the
logical consequence of the process run, and it
does not rehab.

I am still struggling for understanding.

----------

I have my sister's support in this effort and a
number of old class 4s & 6s but I haven't dared
to reveal myself to very many people yet.

My wife, Ann Tordai, is not in agreement with me.
She feels that what is wrong is KSW #2, namely
that the SO is incapable of applying the tech
correctory but that the tech itself is correct
and complete. She is not happy with my squirrling
and extending the tech, but doesn't report me because
she is very unhappy with AO which she considers to
have gross out tech and out ethics.

My contacts into the SO and the complex are very
tenuous, being indirect and second hand. Things
like somebody who's son is doing graphics for
www.scientology.org, somebody who's sister is doing
tape transcript for Gold, somebody who's old
friend boasted about coining the term "Ars Bigots"
(all right, it was coined by big league FSM and
OSA shill Jim Jackson, but don't repeat that because
it might trace back to me - he might not have told
may non-OSA people), and so forth.

I do not have lines into upper management although
I do hear stories sometimes.

I do not know how much support I have amoung org
staff or how deeply things have spread.

I just keep writing and hoping that its making a
difference.

It seems really appropriate that both Louise and I
had a majority of our staff experience in Qual.
This really is an effort to correct the tech and
the orgs.

Note that the tape "Talk on a Basic Qual" was
given to Louise personally with her sitting across
the desk from Ron as he spoke and he called her
"The best damn Qual Sec I ever had". She is very
loyal to Ron and doesn't want to have anything
to do with the critics. But she believes strongly
in reform, supports extending the research, and
wants all the tech to get out on the net as I do.

The fact that nobody got sick when the critics
started putting the OT 3 materials out on the net
and talking about BTs was a big eye opener for
her.

She personally recrited DM into the Sea Org. She
was on a recruitment mission and had a whole bunch
rounded up in a room at ASHO. And the GO ripped
off the entire crew. She had to sign a secrecy
agreement not to disclose that she had recruited
them and could not explain why her stat was zero
and had to run around like mad to recruit another
batch of people. And that original crew disappeared
and then reappeared in positions of power the
following year. Very mysterious.

She has been in the same kind of rare sporatic
keyed out OT state that I have. Actually made
a vase float in the air infront of Judy Ziff once.
And just as incapable of doing that stuff at will
as I am.

As far as I know, we're the strongest OTs (along
with a few others like Otto and maybe Filbert) that
came off the bridge. A tiny handfull of people
who've actually moved an object once or twice
infront of witnesses and can't do it again.

Don't even hint of Louise's involvement. The org
does keep tabs on her because she wrote so much of
the materials (data series, etc.) and OSA would be
on her in a flash.

I hope that you're not disappointed because I don't
have the AO HGC ready to revolt at the wave of my
hand. I exaggerate the strenght of my org contacts
slightly in my postings so as to drive OSA PTS.

But I do think that they are building up into a self
destructive frenzy. The phone calls to get me onto
the s/nots certainty course are growing in volume
and urgency and I've talked with other s/nots
completions in good standing who think that the
certainty business is money making bullshit and
wouldn't go back.

Just this once I needed to run off at the mouth
because I've been keeping this all so hidden for
so long. If it leaks I would probably only suffer
being declared and dead agented, but my sister
might be physically in danger, they would see
her as another David Mayo and there is no telling
how psychotic they might act to prevent that from
happening again.

Please keep this all in the strictist confidence.


Best,

You know who.

_______________________________________________________
Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/
 

RogerB

Crusader
Re: Ken Ogger, The Pilot speaks from the dead

Pilot's Autobiography
Possibly not published before 2012


[June 2012: Intro by Antony: Before the Pilot's identity was revealed to the “Church” by his wife, and the “Church” did not know who he was, he contacted me and a few other people, and was in touch with us, in fact I set up a private Internet list for that little group. He sent me and Heidrun Beer the following, which I do not think has been published until now. I have made no attempt to correct the spelling – I think many rather liked his lack of finesse as regards spelling! Probably spell checkers were new at that time. It is a funny (that is: funny-peculiar, not funny-ha-ha) coincidence that I should run into this forgotten letter now, due to being involved in a computer change. Antony Phillips]

From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: bio
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:41:32 PST
X-Mailer: Excite Mail
X-Sender-Ip: 206.117.249.5
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


To Antony & Heidrun,

. . .(snipped) . . .

Please keep this all in the strictist confidence.


Best,

You know who.

_______________________________________________________
Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/

Ant,

Thanks for this above from Ken . . .

Very interesting and enlightening; and spoke to me directly on the issue of the "comings and goings" of one's "OT powers and abilities." That shit is real, of course, and there are reasons why the abilities/powers are fleeting and variable :melodramatic:

Ken, like all who attained those way out, "unbelievable" (but unreliable) states he spoke of could have benefited from Alan Walter's Ascension Crash and Burn handling. :yes::yes:

Ken spoke directly on the point and so exactly reveals the problem of the incomplete and erroneous $cn tech and its line-up when he reveals his variable and unreliable and troubled ascension states, abilities and powers. It's a bitch . . . but now the why and what of it is known and the scene can truly be handled.

The fleeting and unreliable "OT-ness" scene is something that is very real to many of the old-timer Scientologists; and Ken explained it perfectly.

He wrote some really real things; as an example:
Usually I suffer under the weight of the Mest universe and
the feeling of being trapped.

And:
Some might think that it is simply that when I have
good luck it makes me feel good and so I think
that I am OT. But the sequence is the opposite.
It is always that first I have the wonderful feeling
and the awareness and the certainty, and then comes
the miraculous phone call or the improbable job
offer.

But I can't enter the state at will or get to it
by logic. Sometimes it comes from processing, but
I can't get to it a second time with the same
process, it is a key out effect rather than the
logical consequence of the process run, and it
does not rehab.

I am still struggling for understanding.


What a shame he didn't have a chance to do Alan's handling for it.

RogerB
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Rog, for those of us like myself, who don't have a clue what Alan Walter's Ascension Crash and Burn handling is, could you give a short synopsis? Mimsey
 

Hatshepsut

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Well, a happy belated 76 th to Kris Kristofferson.....thanks Carmelo.:thumbsup:

kristofferson2.jpg
__ The Pilgrim

'he's a pilgrim and a preacher and a problem when he's stoned'

MUI9180-L.jpg
____
kris.png



'He's a walking contradiction, partly truth and partly fiction, takin every wrong direction on his lonely way back home'.
 
Last edited:
Re: Ken Ogger, The Pilot speaks from the dead

Pilot's Autobiography
Possibly not published before 2012


[June 2012: Intro by Antony: Before the Pilot's identity was revealed to the “Church” by his wife, and the “Church” did not know who he was, he contacted me and a few other people, and was in touch with us, in fact I set up a private Internet list for that little group. He sent me and Heidrun Beer the following, which I do not think has been published until now. I have made no attempt to correct the spelling – I think many rather liked his lack of finesse as regards spelling! Probably spell checkers were new at that time. It is a funny (that is: funny-peculiar, not funny-ha-ha) coincidence that I should run into this forgotten letter now, due to being involved in a computer change. Antony Phillips]

From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: bio
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:41:32 PST
X-Mailer: Excite Mail
X-Sender-Ip: 206.117.249.5
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


To Antony & Heidrun,

It looks like I did accidently give you enough information to
pin down who I am when I told you the BofA (Bank of America)
story.

Ralph pointed out to me that the LA times story that mentions
my name won a pulitzer prize and is up on the net at
http://www.latimes.com/HOME/NEWS/REPORTS/PULITZER_98/N_HOLLYWOOD/violent_scr
ipt.htm [link no longer valid]

My worry has never been about either of you personally, but
only about the secruity of your files, emails, and the
trustwortyness of people whom you might directly or indirectly
leak information to.

My own flub with this BofA story shows how easy it is to
pass on an interesting tale without realizing that if OSA
heard it, they would have my name that same afternoon.

For that reason, I initially only revealed my identity to
Ralph, Paul, & Homer. And Homer felt that his primary duty
is to keep lightlink and the archives up no matter what
happens, and so he felt that he shouldn't be included in
secret stuff except on a need to know basis.

You probably don't realize how dangerous that BofA story
is because you don't have a list of OT 7 completions to
compare to the Times story, but OSA does.

Since you are now in a position of being able to leak my
identity accidentally, we might as well have the benefits
that come along with the dangers, so here is the brief
bio that I wrote for Ralph etc.

Note that my biggest concern is in protecting Louise rather
than myself. In case you don't know the old Commodore Staff
positions, CS-5 was the equivallent of the modern head
of the RTC.


--------------


Sooper Secret. Eyes Only. Don't leak or hint.

Somebody should know who I am just incase the Marcabians
abduct me or something. And if I just say my name, it
would be meaningless to most people, but OSA would get
everything else from my PC folder if they found out,
so I might as well do a real writeup.


Brief Bio -

You probably don't know me.

My name is Ken Ogger.

I grew up in Manhattan.

I was raised by my grandparents (Margaret & Arthur Ogger) but
told that they were my parents. After I learned the truth,
Margaret would get very upset if the subject was discussed, so
I continued to refer to my actual mother (Louise Kelly) as
my sister, hence people who know us will be used to us refering
to each other as brother and sister. Especially as we always
treated each other that way. The name on my birth certificate
is Kenneth Hart (from Louise's brief teenage marriage), but I've
never used it.

Margaret, Louise, and another sister/aunt named Liane were
all into metaphysics very heavily. I grew up in this atmosphere
as did the younger children in the family (my half brother
Richard and Liane's three daughters).

By the time I was 13, we were doing table tipping seance's
that had the table rising into the air on a regular basis.
Also, Louise had accumulated a tremendous library of metaphysical
books and was doing Rosecrucian drills among other things.

Margaret owned a deli and then later had a business making
potato salid wholesale for other New York delis. Louise
was managing Mellon Music's New York office (which makes her
one of the few SO execs that had significant wog management
experience).

I was in my teens, reading everything in sight, and searching
for truth. Arthur (who had been an accountant) had died when
I was 11 and this may have been another reason besides the
metaphysical exposure which was driving me to search for
answers.

In 1965 I read Evolution of a Science and felt that I had
finally found the way out.

I joined foundation staff at the New York Org in 1966. I was
still going to high school during the day. My first post
was mimeo, and I read everything as I was running it off.
Initially the org was tiny (maybe 20 people on each shift)
but went through a soaring expansion and had about 150 on
each shift by early 1968.

In 1967 I finished SS II and started the OEC and was also
doing auditor training.

In 1968 I completed Class 4 and also was run on Power and
went into a keyed out OT state.

My family had been dubious of Scientology, feeling that
they were more advanced spiritually but I visited them
on Easter weekend of 1968 while I was still in the keyed
out state and demonstrated enough to convince them that
Scientology was the road out.

One odd and interesting thing was that Liane had regularly
recorded our palm prints because of her interest in
palmistry and she took a new print and brought out the
old ones and it was obvious to all of us that every
line in my hands had changed totally, apparantly from
getting run on power.

Louise and her son Richard immediately got on course full
time and trained to class 4, joined the Sea Org, and
went to LA on the "flight to freedom" that founded the AO.
Louise quickly finished Class 8 and became Qual Sec at
the AO, later moving up to being Qual Sec on the flagship
Apollo and was acting Commodore Staff 5 in between
Judy Ziff and John Eastman. Eventually, when Ron was
no longer around to protect her, the bad hats RPFed her
and so she routed out of the Sea Org.

Aside - when she was in the RPF, her replacement as CS-5,
John Eastman, visited her to find out how bad it was because
he was being threatened with being RPFed too. Apparently
it was dreaful enough because he folded and decided to
play ball with the young turks rather than make trouble
and end up in the RPF. That was around 1979 (I'm not
trying to keep this rambling bio in date order).

As for myself, I hung on as a NY staff member until 1971 and
then left upon completing my contract. By then I had
held numerous posts including DofT, DofP, Cramming,
DPV, Ethics, etc. You have already heard most of my own
story.

Eventually I got into computers, doing things such as
designing Citicorp's online ATM authorizing systems
(I was the software architect of their OFS (online financial
systems) program).

I moved to LA in 1978 and went through old OT 7 in the
following year or two.

As I have said elsewhere, I searched out LRH tapes
and studied them endlessly. I found the complete 20th
ACC in LA Org's qual tape cabinet and New York had had
the complete 16th, for example. I spent a fortune on
reels and later on cassettes. And I found other tape
fanatics and worked deals where we would borrow each
other's tapes.

I got NOTS at AO and then went to Flag for Solo Nots
within about a year of its being released. The big
EP happened the next year after having been on the level
about 6 or 8 months.

Then came the endless overruns, messed up reviews, and
heavy ARC breaks. I didn't seem to meet various hidden
standards about OT 7 completions (I'm not very PR).

Since I started before the "return every 6 months" rule
and had never signed an agreement to return that often,
they had no threat to force me back with and I reached
the point where I wasn't going back again for more overrun.

Then they launched the ship and started delivering OT 8,
and to get the ship full they made it easier to attest
to OT 7.

Finally the C/S promised that I would be allowed to
attest if I went back to Flag one more time, and so I
did that. My completion number was, I think, somewhere
in the 700s. The reg was drooling over the idea of getting
me to the ship, but of course I didn't bite after having
been left hanging for so many years.

When the mass exodus began in the early 80s, I decided
to ignore policy and keep in comm with various friends
who joined the independent field. So I freequently saw
Jim Kitzmiller (we did contracting work together) while
he was getting his NOTS at Valerie Stansfields and I
occasionally had lunch with Tom Franklin (old friend from
New York) who was active in CADA. Also, another old
friend was getting audited by Filbert, so I met him and
read a bit of his manuscript.

Finally I dived into doing my own solo research and found
and ran the penalty universes as described in super scio.
It was after this, that I finally went back to flag and
attested to S/NOTS. That included a sec check but I
had a floating TA from the penalty universe handling, so
nothing came up.

I even got through a sec check at Incomm a few years ago.
Still persistant FNing on everything. They needed a consultant
to fix the mess they had made of their accounting system.
They had used wog consultants who didn't understand policy
and every Scientologist who did know policy whom they had
proposed to bring on had been rejected for security reasons.
So they thought that I was the solution because I was a
solo nots completion. I demanded a very high hourly
contracting rate and they got it approved. The work had
to be done at Gilman and I was getting briefed when my
folders came back from uplines with the necessary security
clearance rejected. The folks at Incomm in the Complex
still can't understand why wogs could get an ok to go
work on the computers at Gilman but even an s/nots completion
in good standing couldn't. Very funny.

I am still theoretically in good standing.

Currently I work as a programmer and software architect.
My latest position is at Chasecredit. They do credit
reports for home buyers, pulling data from TRW etc.
I'm the guru for their online system. Their website
is www.chasecredit.com, but I have very little to do with
their internet stuff (except for being trotted out as
their internet security chief when they have to sell
TRW on their technical expertise). In a real emergency
you can email me directly as [email protected],
but I prefer not to use that one at all for this stuff
and you should memorize the address rather than recording
it anywhere.

I live relatively near the complex. I have lots of
friends from the old days. Many of the old New Yorkers
rose very high in the SO.

-----

I was a math genius. I passed Mensa's entrance requirements
and belonged to their organization briefly before I tired
of the bullshit. I had 798 of a possible 800 on the College
Boards (SATs) for Math (and a composite of over 1500). I even
got some damn math award from some institute during my senior
year of high school. Back in 9th grade I had founded the
chess club at McBurney prep, beaten all contenders, and
become the school champion (no I'm not a chess master,
I've hardly played since then, barely an A level player).
I was a near miss on the National Merit test.

My grades roller coastered (sometimes straight As, sometimes
failures) due to both lazyness and because I enjoyed
making fools of teachers who were dumber than I was
(I was in a big make wrong). Even so, I got a scholarship
and went to NYU.

I enrolled in a pre-med concentration (took Organic
Chemistry) with a Music Major (took Music Theory) and
with a special dispensation for advanced math classes
(took honors calculus with the director of the Courant
Institute). This was 1967.

At the same time I was Director of Tech Services on NY
foundation staff with about 7 juniors under me (the
org was huge, St Hill size at that time). I had gotten
on foundation staff back when I was a senior in high
school.

And I was training in the academy for a couple of hours
after post almost every night, not just doing levels
but listening to every damn extra tape that I could
find to fill out the materials and get more understanding.

It's a wonder that I didn't have a nervous breakdown,
burning the candle at both ends. Instead I got run on
grade 5 and keyed out OT.

Then, after half a year of college, I decided to drop
out and get on BOTH shifts at NY org because I believed
in the tech. The university was shocked, considered me
a genius, and insisted on giving me an unlimited leave
of absence, but I never went back.

As for me, I had abandoned everything for the tech,
and the reward was that OT phenomena was starting to
happen around me. I was happy as a clam.

That is, until heavy ethics, standard tech, and all the
other mess dragged me back into the mud as the insanities
escallated throughout 1968-9.

By 1969 I was a shadow of my former self. The last
bright spot was the time when I blew staff and easily got
a job as a cost accountant for a Monsanto subsidiary
(unbelievable for a 19 year old college dropout, but I
could just do things like that pretty much by postulate).
But after a few months of making real money I let Wayne
Marple talk me into getting back on staff.

By 1970 I couldn't postulate my way out of a paper bag.
That's in contrast to being in a state where I'd just
wish for a 7-UP and the waitress (without being asked)
would just put one down in front of me and say that
I could have it for free because she had drawn it by
mistake (true story from 1968).

When I left staff for the last time in 1971 I was in
complete shell shock. I just loafed and mooched off
my family for quite a few months and then worked a super
market cash register for a few months more, it was
that bad.

Finally with my back to the wall I picked up a low
paying job as an accounts payable adjuster for a
department store chain (Korvetts). I stayed there
until 1975, slowly recovering from the dead. During
that period I was married to my first wife, Jenny,
who later married Dave Silberstein and joined the
SO and the two of them worked at ASHO for a few
years before routing out.

Around 1974 I started getting back to my former self
and went in to the NY org, got a bit of auditing and
retreaded class 0. An expanded grades co-audit
got me to expaned grade 2 and I went clear OT on
it. With that the OT state came back.

I decided that I should have a better profession,
looked around and decided that computers was the
thing to learn.

That week a friend called me up (out of the blue,
incredible!) and offered to teach me programming.
I did my usual of reading everything in sight around
the clock and got a job teaching programming (!)
a few weeks later. After eight months of that I
became a senior systems programmer at a New York
bank. The year after that I became a technical
leader at Chase Manhattan, and then in 1978 I
moved to LA and started consulting. In 1979 I
got my first big contract and designed Sou Calif
Edison's power plant maintence tracking software
(I even spent a month down at the nuclear plant
reading everything in sight). Eventually in the
1980s I took a high perks job as one of Citicorp's
handfull of systems architects and stayed there
until the end of the 80s. They were flying me
around the country a lot and it was convienient
for stopping off at Flag occasionally.

Through all these years, the OT state has been rare
and sporatic. When its there, my wishes seem to
come true, wild and improbable things happen.
Objects moving is the rarest manifestation, pure
serendipity is the most common.

But I am not there most of the time. Usually I
suffer under the weight of the Mest universe and
the feeling of being trapped.

Some might think that it is simply that when I have
good luck it makes me feel good and so I think
that I am OT. But the sequence is the opposite.
It is always that first I have the wonderful feeling
and the awareness and the certainty, and then comes
the miraculous phone call or the improbable job
offer.

But I can't enter the state at will or get to it
by logic. Sometimes it comes from processing, but
I can't get to it a second time with the same
process, it is a key out effect rather than the
logical consequence of the process run, and it
does not rehab.

I am still struggling for understanding.

----------

I have my sister's support in this effort and a
number of old class 4s & 6s but I haven't dared
to reveal myself to very many people yet.

My wife, Ann Tordai, is not in agreement with me.
She feels that what is wrong is KSW #2, namely
that the SO is incapable of applying the tech
correctory but that the tech itself is correct
and complete. She is not happy with my squirrling
and extending the tech, but doesn't report me because
she is very unhappy with AO which she considers to
have gross out tech and out ethics.

My contacts into the SO and the complex are very
tenuous, being indirect and second hand. Things
like somebody who's son is doing graphics for
www.scientology.org, somebody who's sister is doing
tape transcript for Gold, somebody who's old
friend boasted about coining the term "Ars Bigots"
(all right, it was coined by big league FSM and
OSA shill Jim Jackson, but don't repeat that because
it might trace back to me - he might not have told
may non-OSA people), and so forth.

I do not have lines into upper management although
I do hear stories sometimes.

I do not know how much support I have amoung org
staff or how deeply things have spread.

I just keep writing and hoping that its making a
difference.

It seems really appropriate that both Louise and I
had a majority of our staff experience in Qual.
This really is an effort to correct the tech and
the orgs.

Note that the tape "Talk on a Basic Qual" was
given to Louise personally with her sitting across
the desk from Ron as he spoke and he called her
"The best damn Qual Sec I ever had". She is very
loyal to Ron and doesn't want to have anything
to do with the critics. But she believes strongly
in reform, supports extending the research, and
wants all the tech to get out on the net as I do.

The fact that nobody got sick when the critics
started putting the OT 3 materials out on the net
and talking about BTs was a big eye opener for
her.

She personally recrited DM into the Sea Org. She
was on a recruitment mission and had a whole bunch
rounded up in a room at ASHO. And the GO ripped
off the entire crew. She had to sign a secrecy
agreement not to disclose that she had recruited
them and could not explain why her stat was zero
and had to run around like mad to recruit another
batch of people. And that original crew disappeared
and then reappeared in positions of power the
following year. Very mysterious.

She has been in the same kind of rare sporatic
keyed out OT state that I have. Actually made
a vase float in the air infront of Judy Ziff once.
And just as incapable of doing that stuff at will
as I am.

As far as I know, we're the strongest OTs (along
with a few others like Otto and maybe Filbert) that
came off the bridge. A tiny handfull of people
who've actually moved an object once or twice
infront of witnesses and can't do it again.

Don't even hint of Louise's involvement. The org
does keep tabs on her because she wrote so much of
the materials (data series, etc.) and OSA would be
on her in a flash.

I hope that you're not disappointed because I don't
have the AO HGC ready to revolt at the wave of my
hand. I exaggerate the strenght of my org contacts
slightly in my postings so as to drive OSA PTS.

But I do think that they are building up into a self
destructive frenzy. The phone calls to get me onto
the s/nots certainty course are growing in volume
and urgency and I've talked with other s/nots
completions in good standing who think that the
certainty business is money making bullshit and
wouldn't go back.

Just this once I needed to run off at the mouth
because I've been keeping this all so hidden for
so long. If it leaks I would probably only suffer
being declared and dead agented, but my sister
might be physically in danger, they would see
her as another David Mayo and there is no telling
how psychotic they might act to prevent that from
happening again.

Please keep this all in the strictist confidence.


Best,

You know who.

_______________________________________________________
Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/

this is a picture of Louise Kelly, that I took in Ken's house perhaps a decade (or a little less) ago. She was quite something in her prime. One of her lovers was Ingo Swann. Louise died a couple of years ago at her sister's house in NY.
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Ken Ogger, The Pilot speaks from the dead

this is a picture of Louise Kelly, that I took in Ken's house perhaps a decade (or a little less) ago. She was quite something in her prime. One of her lovers was Ingo Swann. Louise died a couple of years ago at her sister's house in NY.

Where's the beef? :confused2:

Louise Kelly was the finest Service Org Evaluator I ever saw...far, f-a-r better than Hisself. :yes:

Face :)
 

Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I knew Ken personally, and have both of his books.

The way OSA "handled" him was to kidnap, drug, and implant him to commit suicide, triggered by any attempt of his to make his researches known. He was able to discover the fact of his being implanted (he called it SDH for sex-drug-hypnosis) but couldn't undo the ill effects. (RONS Orgs' Excalibur would have undone that, but I didn't know it at the time I knew him.)

I had hopes of helping him, and perhaps, if I did a good job, becoming known as the "co-pilot" some day. But that was not to be.

His "penalty universe" technology goes WAY back. Back before the Ring Games http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?24368-RONS-Orgs-Definitions&p=604851#post604851 . I suppose most people can run them only AFTER reaching the top of the other bridges.

Helena
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Ken Ogger, The Pilot speaks from the dead

I was adding to Ant's post about Ken Ogger. I don't understand what you mean by "Where's the beef?"

I'm not getting the picture or a image text on my screen...I though you were referring to an actual Pic of Louise that you posted.
 
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lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Yep, no picture on mine either, probably we just need the link to the picture posted or the picture itself.

It's great how Anthony is using this thread to get out the story about "The Pilot". Kudos to Carmelo! That is how he designed it, to provide a forum where the top posters on ESMB could post their stories in a safe environment and it would actually be read by a reasonably large number of people.

Standard practice would be to run The Pilot's story on a new thread of its own. Typical results would be maybe 2,000 hits and 20 or 25 replies before it died out - not much exposure. I'm not saying this is wrong, probably for most light topics that is the way to go, but for a major topic of this magnitude, its probably better to post it here as opposed to starting a new thread.

I was gone yesterday and didn't post but coming back today, we had around 3,000 hits yesterday. I think that Anthony figured out the best place to put the story was here on the Apollo thread. That would give him both the widest coverage as far as readers plus the most incisive comments by the people who are the most knowledgeable on the subject.
Lakey
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I knew Ken personally, and have both of his books.

The way OSA "handled" him was to kidnap, drug, and implant him to commit suicide, triggered by any attempt of his to make his researches known. He was able to discover the fact of his being implanted (he called it SDH for sex-drug-hypnosis) but couldn't undo the ill effects. (RONS Orgs' Excalibur would have undone that, but I didn't know it at the time I knew him.)

I had hopes of helping him, and perhaps, if I did a good job, becoming known as the "co-pilot" some day. But that was not to be.

His "penalty universe" technology goes WAY back. Back before the Ring Games http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?24368-RONS-Orgs-Definitions&p=604851#post604851 . I suppose most people can run them only AFTER reaching the top of the other bridges.

Helena
I have to wonder though - Ken roller coastered wildly, was he really SDHed? Or was he depressed he was not keyed out OT? I find his death suspect (cinder block wired to his feet, found at bottom of pool) because I think he wouldn't exit that way. His post stating he was PDH'ed seemed over dramatic to me, and IMO suspect. But then again, his wife Ann Tordai betrayed him, he had a colostomy bag so his health wasn't doing too well. Maybe he did off himself. Dunno for sure.

A friend of mine had a really big OT keyout early in his tenure as a scientologist, much like Ken's - think a thought and s/t happens, like walk out the door and the bus pulls up just as you get there, the door simultaneously opens and you walk on. This went on for a while for him - and he was stuck in a win for ages afterwords. He even bought the L's to try and regain the state.

Ken also makes that very same point about Hubbard - major keyout in the 50's - it ends when he goes to jail, never to return, and he ends up a fraction of his former self. I read the same thing in the latest entertainment weekly about Henry Hill (the original "Good Fellas" the movie was based on) How wonderful he felt as a high ranking hood, only to become a schnook when he told his story to the feds. And these rock bands, like Iron Butterfly still on the road?

What is with that yearning to regain one's former status? To debase oneself to get it? What is the allure?

Mimsey
 

RogerB

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Rog, for those of us like myself, who don't have a clue what Alan Walter's Ascension Crash and Burn handling is, could you give a short synopsis? Mimsey


Oh, Oh, . . . . I should have kept my mouth shut and avoided the work! :melodramatic:

Mims, I don’t know how familiar with what’s on ESMB or of Alan’s stuff that’s here. I see you joined ESMB just over a year ago . . . So I’ve enclosed some links of stuff I do recommend be read. It gives an idea of the enormity of the subject we are addressing.

AS I posted on another thread recently, $cn is based on the think and Hubbard’s statements that he had all the answers correct and complete . . . and worse, be made blanket statements as to what would be the complete outcomes for each of the promoted levels on the Grade Chart . . .

This did two damaging things: 1) it introduced hidden standards and false expectations and, 2) invalidated states and powers attained that were not on the standard Grade Chart . . . we read many stories on ESMB of folks who had wondrous wins that were not comprehended by C/Ss and auditors that ended up being invalidated and “disallowed” to be attested to or otherwise enjoyed.

The first thing to know on this subject is that there is an enormous amount of case and failed, sabotaged and/or otherwise lost and destroyed states of Being, subjects, powers and abilities and areas of operation to handle. AS humans we are collapsed in and dotted within and below it all.

When a Being has an ascension experience, they ascend up out of the “dot” of the collapsed Beingness and go free from what had had them trapped in the lower condition . . . but realize, they ascend UP into the remaining case and untoward conditions above!

At first they are not particularly aware of the still unhandled junk they have moved up into. And the person can often stay clean in the ascended state for a very extended period of time, and sometimes the junk they’ve moved up into can move in and begin affecting the person rather soon. And, unfortunately, in an invalidative, evaluative and abusive environment as the CofS now is, the crash and burn of being subject to and effect of the higher level case occurs sooner rather than later.

Ideally, when an ascension or huge big win occurs Alan’s “Celebration of Wins, Regained Abilities, Powers and States of Being” R/D should be run as the next action. It stabilizes it and pulls off the sorts of things that likely would cause the ascended state to collapse.

However, when an ascension crash and burn has occurred there are several R/Ds that can be applied.

The first action is to begin to restore the win and ascension.

One gets the what and when and the action that brought it about. Describe the ascended state, how big were you, etc., etc., and what abilities and powers were turned on and/or recovered.

Then an assessment is done by slow assessment of buttons, some of which are on earlier Scn lists of BPC and Prep Check lists but also buttons not elsewhere than on Alan’s lists. This is done to pick up the whys and what happened to crash the ascension and key in the higher level case and “lose” the ascesion. Each thing found is handled to completion . . . this is not itsa, earlier similar itsa to “F/N” dinky shit . . . you handle fully what comes up. Example: one item on the list is, “Encountered an area of fear?” . . . you handle this to completion!

Then you pick up the package of identities involved before, after and during :ohmy:
This step is a long one with, apart from the handling of each identity (26+steps), you have to handle the relationships between the identities . . . this because the SOBs were accessed and made live in the crash and burn. This too is, from memory around 30 steps/actions.

The end result is a Being aware and able to freely operate at the new level and with the recovered powers and abilities intact and available.

These threads and posts give much of the info to help you on this subject.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?327-Be-in-the-Zone

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?9333-Ascension-Experience

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?33-OPENING-PANDORA-S-BOX-Part-One

This is the thread with vital posts for Ex-scn interested in the bigger picture of what we are dealing with.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...Walter-In-View&p=677482&viewfull=1#post677482

This post contains ascension data
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...Walter-In-View&p=679944&viewfull=1#post679944

Rog
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I have to wonder though - Ken roller coastered wildly, was he really SDHed? Or was he depressed he was not keyed out OT? I find his death suspect (cinder block wired to his feet, found at bottom of pool) because I think he wouldn't exit that way. His post stating he was PDH'ed seemed over dramatic to me, and IMO suspect. But then again, his wife Ann Tordai betrayed him, he had a colostomy bag so his health wasn't doing too well. Maybe he did off himself. Dunno for sure.

A friend of mine had a really big OT keyout early in his tenure as a scientologist, much like Ken's - think a thought and s/t happens, like walk out the door and the bus pulls up just as you get there, the door simultaneously opens and you walk on. This went on for a while for him - and he was stuck in a win for ages afterwords. He even bought the L's to try and regain the state.

Ken also makes that very same point about Hubbard - major keyout in the 50's - it ends when he goes to jail, never to return, and he ends up a fraction of his former self. I read the same thing in the latest entertainment weekly about Henry Hill (the original "Good Fellas" the movie was based on) How wonderful he felt as a high ranking hood, only to become a schnook when he told his story to the feds. And these rock bands, like Iron Butterfly still on the road?

What is with that yearning to regain one's former status? To debase oneself to get it? What is the allure?

Mimsey


The Hubbardism: What got the stats up will get the stats up.

Sometimes true. Eventually, not true at all. Time marches on. People and things change.

The exact circumstances leading to the ascension are gone. The route there again is not the present route.

I agree with your assessment of Ken's situation. That is the way it appeared to me when he was first posting of his travails.

The thing that baffles me is that all he had to do was introduce himself on the back end of all his Super Scio writings. He had quite the audience and fan club going.

It would go something like this: Hello, my name is Ken Ogger, and I am The Pilot. Having stated my position in the Super Scio series, I would like to announce that I am now accepting new clients/pc's. Contact information, blah, blah, blah.

He could have charged $200 an hour and still had people lining up.

I think the article that Leon referred to earlier would apply. Intelligent people can have some serious blind spots concerning themselves.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

-snip-

Ken also makes that very same point about Hubbard - major keyout in the 50's - it ends when he goes to jail, never to return, and he ends up a fraction of his former self.

-snip-

Forgive me. I'm not following this thread very closely so perhaps I missed something, but who was it that "went to jail"? and when did this jailing occur?

As for Ken Ogger. He also claimed to have been sexually blanketed by the hypnotised thetan of Stacy Moxon.

IMO, he was a nice man, but became lost in the Hubbard labyrinth.
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I'm not following this thread very closely so perhaps I missed something, but who was it that "went to jail"? and when did this jailing occur?
ken mentioned in his super scio - what is what isn't, if I recall correctly Ron Hubbard keyed out ot in the early 50's and in the late 50's he went to jail for something - and it all keyed back in.

Mimsey
 

Veda

Sponsor
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

ken mentioned in his super scio - what is what isn't, if I recall correctly Ron Hubbard keyed out ot in the early 50's and in the late 50's he went to jail for something - and it all keyed back in.

Mimsey

Hubbard never went to jail.
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I should probably let this slide by but I’m gonna have my say and then, regarding this topic, forever hold my piece and peace. I’ve touched on some of this a few times before in the past here but this time I’m gonna let “it” all hang out.

I’m gonna be blunt and to the point. I mean not to hurtful to any one or burden anyone’s heart. At the same time, I seek to alleviate something that hurts me and burdens my heart.

I don’t give a fly F about hits and stats on this Thread or any other Thread on ESMB. I didn’t start posting on ESMB, or this Thread for “Readership Numbers” or “Maximum Exposure” or “Big Audience”. If I had thought that “Stats” was of importance on this Board or Thread I never would have NEVER posted here.

In the “Old Days” when there was the “Top 10” Thread Column and sort of a in-house friendly rivalry with the FCDC Thread the “Stat” thing was kinda a fun little sidebar thing IMO for a while, but, after this Thread passed FCDC and the “Top 10” Column removed, the whole “Stat” thing, to me, has become unattractive hubris.

Why?

The Apollo Thread is a sub-board within a Board…It exists solely due to the Good Graces, Stand and Deliver, Blood, Sweat and Tears Sacrifice of Huge Heart Emma and the Stepping Up of Mick Wenlock and Ethercat. Emma never brought up or gloated about “Stats”, “Audiences”, “Hits” or “Readership”. Emma never sought a nod for nuthin no how neither—and I’m pretty damn certain that’s how things are gonna be with Mick and ‘Cat, too.

The Apollo Thread is such an eclectic, dynamic, detailed and unique mix of Scn history, human interest, general information, discussions, narratives, stories, documents, pictures, humor, links upon links, etc. related directly to Scn and its spinoffs (aka “squirrel groups”). The same is so for myriads of other subjects…just a about everything imaginable under the Sun has been given the Apollo Thread “Treatment” by an ad hoc gang of still breathing dinosaurs from the four corners of the earth. Some have come and moved one and some have passed on. But, the Apollo Thread is a part of ESMB, which is broader in scope, richer in detail and filled with more information, covering more generations and eras than any one Thread.

ESMB has far more readers daily than the Apollo Thread. From my periodic cursory looks, ESMB’s readers are pretty much similar to the Apollo Thread’s…mostly guest lurkers. Often time there are “Hot” contemporary Threads on ESMB that get 3,000 or more hits in a day. I’ve also noticed that many guest lurkers are reading “old” threads. There’s absolutely no way to know whether or not the guest lurkers are reading contemporary posts on the Apollo Thread. And, as perhaps half of the content, or more, of the Thread is none Scn related, there’s no way to know whether or not they are all reading about Scn stuff at all.

I post here because it seemed like the proper place to post what I initially wanted to say and tell and because there were some folks here I felt comfortable about, liked their “style” and they were from the “Old Days”. I never posted here because of “Hits”, “Stats” or “Audience” and on the several occasions someone here has intimated that I care about that or should care about it I have felt most insulted and have quit posting here for a number of weeks. I do care that what is posted here about the Apollo, the Sea Org, general Scn operations, various personnel and perhaps other subjects that I have first hand, personal knowledge and expertise in is accurate. I care about that because there are people reading here that are looking for information and there will we others in the future. It is far more important to me that one person reads something I wrote that in some way on eases their burden and helps them on their own path to recovery and closure than to have a thousand “Hits” a day on a Thread I’m posting on…that don’t mean a goddam thing to me.

If Stats are important to others then they can easily read the numbers themselves...they're no secret.

I am an ESMB Member that off and on posts on the Apollo Thread, not vice versa.

Okay. I’ve vented my spleen.:melodramatic:

Peace. :yes:


Face:)
 
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