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The Major Flaw in Knowledgism

alex

alex

Gold Meritorious Patron
The major flaw in knowledgism is spiritual teammates.

What? Teams bad? Spiritual teams sounds like a great idea...

A team is a group organized for a common purpose. Nothing wrong with that.

But with the knowledgism technology these teams are composed partly of the entities that were once unconsciously bound to others.

Entities that may have been unconscious and completely other determined for quite a long time. Knowledgism, rather than completely freeing these entities, uses help and affinity to bind them into a team and then organizes them for purposes other than what the entity may have decided to do left to their own choices.

"Spiritual Teammates" could also be called subtlety enslaved entities. Yes a nice enslavement, affinity flows and all, but still, not completely free.

The purpose of developing these teams is the trap of thinking that power and dominion over material life it necessary to "win" the "game".

It is a trap of not seeing what freedom is, but rather trying to beat a game that is an illusion in the first place.

Power, control, sovereignty, are in themselves elements of separation from true freedom.

My opinion.
 
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alex said:
But with the knowledgism technology these teams are composed partly of the entities that were once unconsciously bound to others.
Click to expand...

In theory.

I accept the existence of entire spiritual beings who are around us and interact with us for mutual benefit, usually ours. I don't accept that there are or were hordes of entire beings trapped in our magnetic plasma fields, body thetans or "fleas" in Hubbard's enlightened parlance, available to become "spiritual teammates" once we magnanimously assist them to become free of their ties.

Paul
 
Dulloldfart said:
In theory.

I accept the existence of entire spiritual beings who are around us and interact with us for mutual benefit, usually ours. I don't accept that there are or were hordes of entire beings trapped in our magnetic plasma fields, body thetans or "fleas" in Hubbard's enlightened parlance, available to become "spiritual teammates" once we magnanimously assist them to become free of their ties.

Paul
Click to expand...

Alan does and teachs how to deal with them.

He also sort of validates ot3 as an incident and discusses spiritual teams.

Alan said:
I think it would be a very good idea if we viewed the whole of the
"OT Levels" in PT. And viewed them from the idea that Amos or Ralph
or Joe Shmoe had discovered them.

!. They are not OT Levels.

2. They are engramic incidents. (I think being transported to a
volcano, having a H-Bomb exploded on top of you qualifies as an engram.)

3. They are late on the chain engramic incidents.......worse they are
"end of game" engramic incidents......as such they have earlier
beginnings and later endings.

4. End of Game and loss of Game are the basis of
depression......Gameless, Goaless and Souless.

5. R6-EW, CC, OT I, II, III. are 3rd and 4th dynamic engramic
incidents - the odds are very few people have enough charge off their
cases to run the actual incidents.

6. In picking up another entities case to run on the
material......you would have exactly the same phenomena on that
entity as you had during your beginning auditing.

7. You now have multiple time tracks and beings in restimulation as
well as your own.

8. The odds of getting these incidents and implants are remote.

9. The logistic are utterly improbable and impossible.

10. The cost would have been astronomical...........DC 8's with
propellers would not have been viable transportation to transport 40
billion bodies to any of the many locations.

11. Running the OT levels violates the Auditors Code.......Do not
evaluate for the pc.

On the plus side.

1. Providing it is real and you have interest. - Run as an "end of
civilization" engram - with earlier beginning and later
endings.......you blow a tremendous amount of charge, also you get
the sequence of how Civilizations are formed and grown.

2. You can make some nifty friends with your entities.....and often
you can build a powerful spiritual team of entities.

3. You can have weird conversations with your friends.

4. You end up on very strange lists, e-mailing very strange messages,
to very strange people. :-D

Alan
Click to expand...
 
alex said:
The major flaw in knowledgism is spiritual teammates.

What? Teams bad? Spiritual teams sounds like a great idea...

A team is a group organized for a common purpose. Nothing wrong with that.

But with the knowledgism technology these teams are composed partly of the entities that were once unconsciously bound to others.

Entities that may have been unconscious and completely other determined for quite a long time. Knowledgism, rather than completely freeing these entities, uses help and affinity bind them into a team and then organizes them for purposes other than what the entity may have decided to do let to their own choices.

"Spiritual Teammates" could also be called subtlety enslaved entities. Yes a nice enslavement, affinity flows and all, but still, not completely free.

The purpose of developing these teams is the trap of thinking that power and dominion over material life it necessary to "win" the "game".

It is a trap of not seeing what freedom is, but rather trying to beat a game that is an illusion in the first place.

Power, control, sovereignty, are in themselves elements of separation from true freedom.

My opinion.
Click to expand...

Hullo Alex,

Which hat are you wearing for this thread? :confused2:

From your recent posts on Knowledgism you appear to be operating to an agenda, is this the case? :ohmy:

As far as I am concerned, you are welcome to say whatever you like about any subject here on the board, providing you are expressing your own views and are not working to a prepared script. :yes:

I get the impression you are confused and are struggling to align concepts regarding what one's spiritual team are and what they do. :confused2:

Hubbard demonstrated his drug fuelled paranoia about one's beings in and around you and your space. He wanted to get rid of them all. Well, look where that idea got him and many suffering followers. :no: :grouch:

Before you decide whether a body of knowledge is flawed or not, it might be a good idea to actually read up a bit about it first. :duh:
 
This is somewhat making me curious about what Alan has written. Maybe I'll take a look sometime.

.
 
DartSmohen said:
Before you decide whether a body of knowledge is flawed or not, it might be a good idea to actually read up a bit about it first.
Click to expand...
I thought the Knowledgism stuff was EXPENSIVE, like $30 for a 30 page book. And there seem to be quite a few. That is not a non-profit humanitarian type of action, although of course it doesn't claim to be.

So this sounds a bit like one of these "oh you don't quite understand yet, you need to buy this extra book, or course, or whatever". Just like Scientology in fact. :duh:

I don't think Alex has any hidden evil purpose here. And he certainly knows more about this stuff than me.
 
Vinaire said:
This is somewhat making me curious about what Alan has written. Maybe I'll take a look sometime.

.
Click to expand...

He referred me a couple of times to a recorded lecture explaining his ideas on Spiritual Teammates on his website. Unfortunately it's only in Real Audio format, and I refuse to have anything to do with Real Player. Maybe one day he could use his vaunted abilities to get someone to put an mp3 version online.

Paul
 
DartSmohen said:
Hullo Alex,

Which hat are you wearing for this thread? :confused2:

From your recent posts on Knowledgism you appear to be operating to an agenda, is this the case? :ohmy:

As far as I am concerned, you are welcome to say whatever you like about any subject here on the board, providing you are expressing your own views and are not working to a prepared script. :yes:

I get the impression you are confused and are struggling to align concepts regarding what one's spiritual team are and what they do. :confused2:

Hubbard demonstrated his drug fuelled paranoia about one's beings in and around you and your space. He wanted to get rid of them all. Well, look where that idea got him and many suffering followers. :no: :grouch:

Before you decide whether a body of knowledge is flawed or not, it might be a good idea to actually read up a bit about it first. :duh:
Click to expand...

So rather than deal with the concepts I posted you accuse me of being OSA and uninformed.

Speaks for itself.
 
alex said:
The major flaw in knowledgism is spiritual teammates.

What? Teams bad? Spiritual teams sounds like a great idea...

A team is a group organized for a common purpose. Nothing wrong with that.

But with the knowledgism technology these teams are composed partly of the entities that were once unconsciously bound to others.

Entities that may have been unconscious and completely other determined for quite a long time. Knowledgism, rather than completely freeing these entities, uses help and affinity bind them into a team and then organizes them for purposes other than what the entity may have decided to do let to their own choices.

"Spiritual Teammates" could also be called subtlety enslaved entities. Yes a nice enslavement, affinity flows and all, but still, not completely free.

The purpose of developing these teams is the trap of thinking that power and dominion over material life it necessary to "win" the "game".

It is a trap of not seeing what freedom is, but rather trying to beat a game that is an illusion in the first place.

Power, control, sovereignty, are in themselves elements of separation from true freedom.

My opinion.
Click to expand...


Your opinion, yes, I believe I understand.

Alan has said or written much regarding Spiritual Teammates. You seem to have but scratched the surface. Check the a.c.t. archives.

What Hubbard said? A being is in Treason on the first dynamic of he fails to get rid of all his BT's. (OT-3 pack)

Hubbard said a being will do with entities in the mind as he does with entities in the physical universe. (DMSMH) A corollary vise versa would naturally follow.

Around the time of OT-3 being originated as a level, you also find Scientology emphasis on Lower Ethics Conditions, heavy ethics actions, RPF, and more. Looks to me like Hubbard was doing with entities in the mind as he was doing with entities in the physical universe.

Many people have come and gone in Scientology. In a sense they were people who woke up because they were "scanned" by a book or someone setting a good example of Scientology. After those people joined they met with differing levels of abuse, then they were gone. But, many didn't leave cleanly. Scientology has created most, if not all, of its own enemies.

"Many are called and few are chosen" is both a slogan and a justification for the innies who remain.

To relate to BT's as if they are Spiritual teammates is a new perception. And, I might add, a huge improvement over perceiving them as a hinderance that needs to be audited off.

I related to BT's as if they were any other pc, infinitely capable, only needing a bit of good, non-evaluative, non-invalidative auditing to help them along.

My own finding on the matter is that some leave, some stay. They shouldn't be forced in either direction. That would be bad auditing. The one's that stay belong. Whether that's an actual entity or a piece of one's self is a matter for philosophers to debate.

All in all, I don't see how anyone could complete any auditing where other beings or entities are involved if the auditor did anything other than a professional level of auditing following its most basic of rules.
 
alex said:
Alan does and teachs how to deal with them.

He also sort of validates ot3 as an incident and discusses spiritual teams.
Click to expand...


Regarding OT-3, Alan has stated a number of times, "Right item for some, wrong item for others."

I agree.
 
Alanzo said:
I have to agree with Alex here, Dart.

You totally dodged the issues that Alex raised.
Click to expand...
Alanzo, it's only an "issue" if you grant credence to the arbitrarily declared "flaw".

Surely a man of your experience (6 nooses) can spot the inconsistency in a scn defender, Alex in this case, accusing Alan of the "flaw" of openly discussing something that most scientologists believe?
 
Things unseen...

DartSmohen said:
Hullo Alex,

Which hat are you wearing for this thread? :confused2:

From your recent posts on Knowledgism you appear to be operating to an agenda, is this the case? :ohmy:

As far as I am concerned, you are welcome to say whatever you like about any subject here on the board, providing you are expressing your own views and are not working to a prepared script. :yes:

I get the impression you are confused and are struggling to align concepts regarding what one's spiritual team are and what they do. :confused2:

Hubbard demonstrated his drug fuelled paranoia about one's beings in and around you and your space. He wanted to get rid of them all. Well, look where that idea got him and many suffering followers. :no: :grouch:

Before you decide whether a body of knowledge is flawed or not, it might be a good idea to actually read up a bit about it first. :duh:
Click to expand...

alex said:
So rather than deal with the concepts I posted you accuse me of being OSA and uninformed.

Speaks for itself.
Click to expand...

Alanzo said:
I have to agree with Alex here, Dart.

You totally dodged the issues that Alex raised.
Click to expand...

Where, exactly, does Dart accuse alex of being OSA in the post? :confused2:

Alan is so senior to alex as to make specious and/or irelevant any of alex's ruminations. IMO. :whistling:

EP
 
Panda Termint said:
Alanzo, it's only an "issue" if you grant credence to the arbitrarily declared "flaw".

Surely a man of your experience (6 nooses) can spot the inconsistency in a scn defender, Alex in this case, accusing Alan of the "flaw" of openly discussing something that most scientologists believe?
Click to expand...

In my experience, the problem with Knowledgists is that they employ the same dead agent tactics that Scientologists employ: Character assassinations and red-herrings, insults and ad hom.

They never answer a question or talk to anyone about Kn who seems to be critical or challenging any of their concepts.

I think that Alex made a perfectly legitimate post for discussion. And what he got back was ad hom.

So I pointed it out because I have seen it many times before from them.

It's the worst of Scientology.

They should go ahead and drop that Hubbard technique.
 
DartSmohen said:
Hullo Alex,

snip

Hubbard demonstrated his drug fuelled paranoia about one's beings in and around you and your space. He wanted to get rid of them all. Well, look where that idea got him and many suffering followers. :no: :grouch:

snip
Click to expand...

You and alan and others who bash hubbard, calling him turd, paranoic, drugged etc, ARE THE VERY PEOPLE WHO LET HIM HANG HIMSELF WITH HIS OWN ROPE.

You were his friends and the ones who could have helped him.

I see a ser fac at play here....he "betrayed" you....you'll be right, somehow.

Your accusations speak loud of the overt.
 
Alanzo said:
In my experience, the problem with Knowledgists is that they employ the same dead agent tactics that Scientologists employ: Character assassinations and red-herrings, insults and ad hom.

They never answer a question or talk to anyone about Kn who seems to be critical or challenging any of their concepts.

I think that Alex made a perfectly legitimate post for discussion. And what he got back was ad hom.

So I pointed it out because I have seen it many times before from them.

It's the worst of Scientology.

They should go ahead and drop that Hubbard technique.
Click to expand...
Hey Alanzo,

Look at the title - "The major Flaw in Knowledgism"
Then the category - "Cults in general"
Then the content of the op - Quite a misrepresentation of a concept in Knowledgism I gather.

It all came across as pretty slanderous and ad hom to me, and then Dart responded by calling a spade a spade, and fairly politely too I might add.

Pot kettle black on this one.
 
Carmel said:
Hey Alanzo,

Look at the title - "The major Flaw in Knowledgism"
Then the category - "Cults in general"
Then the content of the op - Quite a misrepresentation of a concept in Knowledgism I gather.

It all came across as pretty slanderous and ad hom to me, and then Dart responded by calling a spade a spade, and fairly politely too I might add.

Pot kettle black on this one.
Click to expand...

More ad hom, I make a point, and rather than discuss it, my motives are questioned, and my integrity is subtlely impugned.

I don't believe I have misrepresentd anything.
 
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