The Mayo Challenge

[FoTi]

David Mayo was essentially (in action, if not in title) the ecclesiastical leader of Scientology for some years, handpicked, hand-trained by Hubbard himself.

He's come onto this board posting that he never created a cult.

He asked for examples of how we, the post readers felt he had indeed created the cult.

Using Hubbard's own definitions - isn't creation some sort of "continuous effort to put it there" or something like that?

In his career he did LOTS of "create" in Scientology.

Now I want to know:

1. Does he believe in Clear? Harmonics of Clear?

2. Past lives? Where's Ron? Are they in comm? Why is Ron blown from post?

3. Space aliens stuck on or around one's body or attached by strings or stuck attention?

4. Does he have any evidence for any of these states? Is he OT? Can he prove it?

5. How has he resolved for himself the terrible abuse of mentally ill PCs at Flag while he was the Senior C/S there - this part bravely revealed by Karen Jensch here on this board?

The OP here may be rude. He may not be polite.

But, he has a point!

What if Ron started posting here?

Would we be reminiscing with him about tea and crumpets at St. Hill?

How about....you go to Youtube and watch all the David Mayo videos (maybe some of your questions will be answered there) and then come back and ask your questions?

And while you do that, think about the fact that David Mayo has a legal gag order on him and there are questions that he won't be able to answer for you no matter how much you bitch and moan.

And if you're talking about some sort of "continuous effort to put it there"....we all did that.....everyone ever involved in Scientology has contributed to that motion one way or another.....including you. Would you like to be hung along with him for your 35 years of being involved and contributing to the cult?

 

[uniquemand]

I've been an ex-scientologist for 11 years, and an ex-Churchie for 16, or 20, depending on whether you asked me or them, and people STILL expect me to answer them directly, or think I'm a scientologist because I still espouse some ideas that are also in scientology.

Sometimes, you need to here NOW the answer to a question you've had for a long time, or to a concern raised due to present conditions.

 

[smartone]

imo having been a Sea Org member I've been member of a criminal organization. Was that my intention when I joined? Certainly not. And it was hard for me when I realized it, I had reasons to regret and felt stupid. I remember one specific situation when I could have left and should have left. I was exhausted to the point I wasn't even able to perform a thought or feel anything, so I continued for a while although from that point on I knew SO wasn't the right place to be. If there ever (which I doubt) were the possibility to improve or learn in Scientology, I didn't have the opportunity while on staff. And when I was out, there was a whole world opening up to see and to learn from. I wouldn't consult any of Hubbards writings anymore. The moment I left is a memory of triumph. But it's long ago and I've met some great people there, who were in the same trap.

Good post Morizo. It says it all right there about you not knowing it was a criminal organisation when you joined.

 

[Gadfly]

Good post Morizo. It says it all right there about you not knowing it was a criminal organisation when you joined.

Nobody knows what Scientology "really is" when you first get involved. You are bombarded with endless promo and PR. You are hit endlessly with all of Hubbard's claims and assertions, with everybody smiling and on their best behavior telling you or implying that IT IS ALL TRUE! It is carefully set up that way.

The nastier aspects of OSA are entirely hidden from most staff and public, and it seems unless one goes out of their way to find out, some can remain ignorant for many decades!

Hubbard set it up so that invalidation of ANYTHING about Scientology could not happen. The truth was and is still irrelevant to them. Rules were put in place to prevent discussion of comparing of case gain. Invalidating or belitting the state of Clear or OT was deemed a suppressive act - so even if you had doubts, you couldn't voice them or get sent to ethics. I have known people who didn't feel good about their OT levels, commented about it to others, and were sent to ethcis and SCREAMED at your dramatizing suppressive characteristics!

If you talk to another negatively about Scientology, no matter how true it might be, you are guilty of a suppressive act! Scientology is all about controlling behavior, and while pretending to be a road to and give lots of lip service to "truth", in fact, "truth" is irrelevant. Do as you are tld, and act like you are supposed to - or else. THAT is Scientology.

And, after a few years, confronting the truth of what is actually going on gets more difficult because often one has now invetsed LOTS of money and time, has friends or family in the Church, and is constantly threatened with MAJOR life changes if he or she rocks the boat about what he or she NOW starts to notice as outpoints.

It is a carefully constructed mind fuck. Hubbard did his job well.

+++++++++++++

 

[Petey C]

Communicate or no?

Hello there

I've been wanting an opportunity such as this to arise. I am clearly who I am, you are clearly not revealing yourself. I long ago settled with the C of S. I am not wanting to pick any fights with anyone. I am here to reconnect with old friends.

But this reminds me of a situation that has replayed many times during my life. How to communicate with someone who has different intentions than what they have expressed. Perhaps it is better to not communicate with that person at all. Perhaps that truly is the best solution and is my weakness. Because time after time I have communicated to people that I suspected were there for other reasons than what they expressed. But I have great faith in the goodness of man and I think anyone posting to this site probably in some way truly thinks he is doing the right thing. Me included.

....

But I've wondered did I really handle that in the best way possible. I really do not know. The creator of "The Mayo Challenge" most likely isn't a very dear friend like Johnny. He is more likely just someone who has had a lot of disinformation about us and is just doing his job: trying to do us in.

But I want to give him the benefit of the doubt and at the same time I want to be more direct and not hide the obvious. I want to say: "Whoever you are, show what you have in your bag. Reveal your true identity. Tell us what orders you are following." Maybe then we can resolve our differences. Maybe we can be honest. Maybe we can both work towards a better world without strife.

This is a challenge to you, my friend, (I hope). You know our true identities. Reveal yours. Perhaps we can forgive each other and work together towards a brighter future. I have no bad will towards you. Peace.

(If you have a better idea, now is the time to express it.) This may all seem airy fairy, but I think there has got to be some way to bridge the gap, even though it is most likely wider than the Grand Canyon. The soldiers in the trenches during World War 1 eventually started cooperating with each other because they were in it together for the long haul. Maybe that's the answer. "Hey, you guys in the trenches over there. We are going to be here together for a long time to come. Can we at least have a cup of tea and a couple of bikkies?"

Good post, Jules. Interesting stuff about whether to say something you suspected or not.

When I was in Scientology my idea was that I should "confront" and also "communicate". So I did. This made me a pain in the ass while I was in, but it was worse when I was out. The world I had to live in was much more discerning, or maybe reticent, about communication. Well, I learned the hard way to keep my powder dry and not vomit communication all over the place just because it was there and I could. (Sorry to mix metaphors.)

Some of the Scn concepts go so deep that they're hard to pull out by the roots, and while the analysis of the communication cycle has lots of truth, I think the idea that we gotta be confronting and communicating everything is flawed. I think personal integrity is more important, and sometimes keeping your own counsel is a good thing.

And I acknowledge it takes courage for you guys to post under your own name.

Peggy

 

[Mark A. Baker]

David and Julie didn't have to register here under their own names. In fact, few people do so. I wonder why they both did? Nobody demands to see proof of credentials from a person who just calls herself Myrtle_the_Turtle, or something. ....

That is f#cking rich, Freeminds. You slay me.

You are suspicious because a person is NOT hiding his identity.

So in your mind people in hiding are therefore to be trusted, whereas people who are not in hiding are behaving suspiciously. Congratulations. That is seriously loopy thinking.

I'm sure the OSA are proud of their product.




Mark A. Baker

 

[Mark A. Baker]

... It was David Mayo who asked earlier on this thread how we felt he had contributed to creating a cult. ...

Contributing to the development and expansion of the subject of scientology is NOT the same as contributing to the idolatry of L. Ron Hubbard and establishment of a cult of personality built around his personality.

Something to keep in mind when framing your comments.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Mark A. Baker]

When I joined ESMB I took the name literally. It is apparent that it is a misnomer. ...

Your 'literal' understanding is not definitive. You should have checked the FAQ.

Who is considered an "Ex Scientologist"?

Anyone who has broken free of the restraints of the Official Church of Scientology and is "allowed" to read & post to the internet.

http://forum.exscn.net/faq.php?faq=esmbfaq#faq_esmbfaq4

No one here is responsible for your failure to understand, nor does that failure excuse ill conduct.


Mark A. Baker

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Gotta few questions for you, TRNU.

Were you ever on Staff, in the SO or Flag Crew?

IRL did you know or ever interact with El Ron, or Mar Sue, or David Mayo, or Julie Mayo, or Mike Rinder, or Marty Rathbun, or David Miscavige?

How much time have you spent Lurking and reading ESMB?

What is your Agenda for ESMB?

In the last 15 months I’ve posted over 40,000 words on ESMB pertaining to my Agenda, which I was very specific about when I joined. I’m here to learn, to Dialogue, to Document my “Take” on my Life and Times with El Ron, the SO and Scn, and to have some fun with a whole bunch of folks that I consider to be highly intelligent and fascinating to read and get to know a little bit. I read through threads on this board for 6 months before I made my first post and have a pretty good idea of just how remarkable a resource ESMB is and what a Unique, Valuable, Open and Healing contribution so many folks have made here and still are making. I don’t feel the urge to try and bludgeon others into accepting my way of looking at things and have come to accept the fact that there are some folks that do feel that urge. My “Takes” on all the folks named in my question above to you are in those 40,000 words…I knew and interacted with all of them. My opinion’s regarding them was not formed from reading the net or reading this Board—it was formed from first hand experience over 25 years ago. My opinion doesn’t have to be your opinion or anyone else’s opinion.

I asked the questions so as to get a “Frame of Reference” on where you’re coming from. I don’t expect you read all my posts here and I have no interest in fishing around the net to read what you’ve posted in the past. I post under a Moniker and wish, for now, to retain my anonymity. I looked at your Member Profile page and there is nothing there that gives any information regarding you. If you go to my member profile you will find some information that gives you brief “Frame of Reference” for me and there is much, much more in my 40,000 plus words. I bring all this up as you have made a number of posts with “Characterizations” about folks that I happen to have known, personally, and that I’m interested to see what “shakes out” as they settle in here. So, I’m curious as to what experiential path has led you to the premise for these characterizations and why you harbor such extreme urgency that they “answer up” to you immediately, rather than entering into a civil Dialogue and finding out what they have to—or cannot—say. Just like you and I, there’s stuff neither of us is willing to, or prehaps in good position to, reveal at this time.

I look forward to your response.

Peace.

Face

PS: If you’ve been deeply hurt by Scn, I understand…you have absolutely no clue what I’ve been through.

 

[Terril park]

When I joined ESMB I took the name literally. It is apparent that it is a misnomer. I did not realise at first but it seems that most, if not all, of you are still Scientologists. I am not.

When I originally left I was of the belief that it was just the current management that were altering the subject. But there are many different levels of "out", just as there are different levels of being "in" (ie The Bridge). I get the impression that most of the people here are still on the step where you believe the subject is salvageable, and that once Miscavige is gone all will be rosy once again, and you can go skipping down the lane holding hands.

I am all the way out. I completely and utterly despise Scientology, and I will do everything that I can do to cause its destruction.

I am not looking to repackage it, or reform it. In my opinion there are no redeemable factors in the subject. It is rotten to the core. Anything "good" about it was simply a means to an end for the creators of Scientology, and was used as a piece of bait at the end of the fishing line to reel in the big fish. It's all about money. Scientology does not care about people, and it breeds that mentality in its senior members. Once financially used up people are cast aside like a vampire does with its victim. Next.

The theetie-weetie message from Julie Mayo has no impact on me. It is just a thinly-veiled attempt to get me to reveal my identity. Read it again. Why would she want me to do that? That factor alone is the biggest red flag about her intentions. Scientologists are masterful manipulators of people's emotions, and she has got you all swooning over her (probably made-up) little story about the friend who betrayed her. So what.

The big question is: Why is her husband and herself coming forward right now with their names exposed? What is their agenda?
I know there has to be one, and I suspect that it is because the official CoS is finally cracking at the seams. All of the senior execs who have bailed like Rinder and Rathbun and are setting up shop for the Game Of The Century... "Mmm Hmm, we need to be in on this action".

Money.

As for all of you gathering around Mayo to protect him, that is pathetic. He has probably done more of "The Bridge" than any of you, including all the OT Levels. He is supposed to be a powerhouse of a being. And you are all upset because of my words? I mean c'mon ! The way you are all acting - it is as if I have attacked little 5-year old Suzie Cottonbritches in the playground and I'm punching her senseless. You are all gathering around in defense.

This is a grown man who helped create the most destructive cult on the planet, and my words are hurting him? Give me a break.

I guess time will show what his agenda is.

P.S. Yes, Voltaire. I have had this moniker for over a decade.

With grace Julie used one of the great precepts from Jesus:-

" Turn the other cheek".

She is even apologizing for asking who you are. There any good reason why you can't say?

All the better for communication, less you can't get that
" theetie weetie.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

The Real No user can be a bit acerbic, but I remember some really good contributions.

I appreciate the candor shown. This doesn't mean I want to see anyone attacked. I think the Mayos have more than paid their dues. But I also like The Real No user.

 

[GreyWolf]

Please!

Right on Mike!

 

[Gadfly]

Fifteen years ago, David Mayo wrote, "I am not a Scientologist now and have not been for many years." And just recently, David Mayo has written some posts on ESMB. In addition to that there are oft quoted excerpts from the 1986 interview with Russell Miller, and also the 1991 article on 'Clear' that appeared in the 'Free Spirit' and 'IVy' magazines.

I'm seeing questions being asked that were answered yesterday or the day before, and in some instances were answered years ago.

Considering the delicate nature of the situation, how about you guys doing your homework first?

BINGO!

++++++++

 

[Veda]

Most people who post here have not only left the CofS, but have also ceased advocating the doctrine of Scientology as well. They are not Scientologists of any kind.

I had an interest in higher states of consciousness, out of body experience, human potential, re-incarnation, etc. before I became involved in Scientology. Because I still have an interest in these things does not make me a Scientologist.

Scientology uses the "good stuff" as disguise and as "bait." To not be able to - calmly - describe that disguise is to not be able to fully describe the trap of Scientology.

http://exscn.net/content/view/178/105

 

[justsayin']

That is f#cking rich, Freeminds. You slay me.

You are suspicious because a person is NOT hiding his identity.

So in your mind people in hiding are therefore to be trusted, whereas people who are not in hiding are behaving suspiciously. Congratulations. That is seriously loopy thinking.

I'm sure the OSA are proud of their product.




Mark A. Baker

mark, i just read his entire post and i don't think that's what he was saying.
sounded to me like he was just acknowledging that other people would be suspicious. the whole post sounded more like friend than foe. :confused2:

 

[Boojuum]

Exes understand other exes. I'm an ex. Also, because many of my friends reside here and I want to hang out with my old friends.

Amen!!! Julie.

I've met a number of old friends and have shared a great many fun memories because of this board. I also use the board to vent about the various things about cos that I didn't like. I feel, and perhaps I share this emotion with many others here, that reading the stories and opinions of others on this board help to explain the rich experience of Scientology. The Scieno experience defies description. It's not like the years you spent in the armed services or in college.

You're in for a treat, but keep in mind, it's a rough crowd and you'll continue to be challenged with tough questions and accusations.

I've enjoyed your posts and look forward to reading more.

Glad to see you here!

 

[TheRealNoUser]

Gotta few questions for you, TRNU.
Were you ever on Staff, in the SO or Flag Crew?
snip . . .
PS: If you’ve been deeply hurt by Scn, I understand…you have absolutely no clue what I’ve been through.

The furthest I ever got was "feel my finger".

 

[Mark A. Baker]

mark, i just read his entire post and i don't think that's what he was saying.
sounded to me like he was just acknowledging that other people would be suspicious. the whole post sounded more like friend than foe. :confused2:

Yes, well I was highly amused at his opening paragraph.


Mark a. Baker

 

[Terril park]

The furthest I ever got was "feel my finger".

As the bishop said to the actress.

 

[TheRealNoUser]

Upon running the auditing command "feel my finger" I felt a strange sensation. The room slowly started to get brighter, and I could see the auditor struggling with the TA on the E-Meter. Suddenly the edges of the E-Meter were melting and the auditor was laughing along with me. The walls of the room completely disappeared and I was in an infinite space holding a pair of soup cans. I glugged down the soup quickly, thinking it might be my last meal ever and started to glide forward.

I quickly got bored with the infinite space thing, and was then rushing thru stars, planets, and space on an incredible journey of self-awakening. Then things started slowing down and get darker - with only stars visible - until I was completely stuck in something. I felt like I was in some kind of chair - like a racing seat, but facing the wrong way. My face was stuck. I pulled back and my face plopped out of this gelatine-like substance shaped like a ball.

My God ! I had exited the physical universe !! "That's all it is?", I thought to myself.

I was surrounded by people who were all my previous incarnations, and I then realized that I was actually Xenu, and remembered where I had stashed all the spare nukes from back in the old days. "I'm going back in" - I thought, and stuck my face back in the jello-universe-ball-thing. Everything went black.

The next thing I knew I woke up in an all-night Denny's with my face in a bowl of custard with two cops standing over me. "I'm Clear !" I shouted. "I'm O.T. - and I'm Xenu !!".

The whole room broke into applause, and the cops hauled me off to the lunatic asylum. The Examiner sat me down and said "pick up the cans .... your TA is floating. Thank you."

Then I joined this B.B.S. and started this thread.

Sound familiar?