The Real Heroes

[Gottabrain]

Whether it's outrageous claims of the number of actual Scientologists, false stats of expansion, smokescreens of "Ideal Orgs" (to service all of these imaginary new public) or trumped up, highly exaggerated lies to slander and libel critics, Scientologists are best known for extreme bullshitting of others to serve themselves or Scientology.

What irks me lately is the incredibly exaggerated self-promotion that continues amongst some after they leave COS. Taking a kernel of truth and exaggerating it a thousand times to make oneself out to be a hero, a big protester, a major defender of human rights, etc. and posting or verbally stating these boasts to others does not sit well with me, nor does diverting attention to one's self and away from another who has made - and continues to make - substantial contributions to end the abuses of Scientology.

The real heroes in this battle against the abuses of Scientology aren't self-promoting, exaggerating braggarts taking credit for others' hard work.

I ask you all - FZers, Exes, Indies, lurkers, etc - where we see or hear outrageous claims and brags from individuals, before spreading their statements of accomplishments to others and trusting them too readily, do a bit of verification, because some of the claims and stories we hear just aren't true and the people aren't all they claim or promote themselves to be. I love that Anonymous focuses on facts.

Some of my personal heroes in this fight that I have seen truly accomplish a lot legally, in the media and on an unselfish personal basis (and the facts can easily be verified with a simple Google search) include (not in any particular order):

Amy Scobee
Paul Schofield
Emma
Sparrow
Carmel Underwood
Carmen Ranier
Jesse Prince
Tory Christman
Scarlett Hanna
Karen De La Carriere
Janet Reitman
Paulette Cooper
Jon Atack
Ronald deWolf, Jr.
Paul Salerno
John Duignan
Bent Corydon
Kendra
Jenna Miscaviage Hill
Astra Woodcraft
Monica Pignotti
Stephen A. Kent


This is not, by far, a complete list. My personal list is around a hundred, and I'll bet there are nearly a thousand people who have made substantial unselfish contributions to this fight at personal risk, and they didn't go around bragging about it, either. Then there are the thousands of protestors and all the Anons who still remain anonymous. These people just struck me as particularly compassionate and dedicated against the abuses of Scn and are persons I have been fortunate to have some personal dealings with as well.

To hell with the braggarts. Question those who blow their own horns. I have my own heroes because of what I've seen them actually do.

Many thanks to you and all the ones that were not named, as well. You know who you are.

Sheila

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Whether it's outrageous claims of the number of actual Scientologists, false stats of expansion, smokescreens of "Ideal Orgs" (to service all of these imaginary new public) or trumped up, highly exaggerated lies to slander and libel critics, Scientologists are best known for extreme bullshitting of others to serve themselves or Scientology.

What irks me lately is the incredibly exaggerated self-promotion that continues amongst some after they leave COS. Taking a kernel of truth and exaggerating it a thousand times to make oneself out to be a hero, a big protester, a major defender of human rights, etc. and posting or verbally stating these boasts to others does not sit well with me, nor does diverting attention to one's self and away from another who has made - and continues to make - substantial contributions to end the abuses of Scientology.

The real heroes in this battle against the abuses of Scientology aren't self-promoting, exaggerating braggarts taking credit for others' hard work.

I ask you all - FZers, Exes, Indies, lurkers, etc - where we see or hear outrageous claims and brags from individuals, before spreading their statements of accomplishments to others and trusting them too readily, do a bit of verification, because some of the claims and stories we hear just aren't true and the people aren't all they claim or promote themselves to be. I love that Anonymous focuses on facts.

Some of my personal heroes in this fight that I have seen truly accomplish a lot legally, in the media and on an unselfish personal basis (and the facts can easily be verified with a simple Google search) include (not in any particular order):

Amy Scobee
Paul Schofield
Emma
Sparrow
Carmel Underwood
Carmen Ranier
Jesse Prince
Tory Christman
Scarlett Hanna
Karen De La Carriere
Janet Reitman
Paulette Cooper
Jon Atack
Ronald deWolf, Jr.
Paul Salerno
John Duignan
Bent Corydon
Kendra
Jenna Miscaviage Hill
Astra Woodcraft
Monica Pignotti
Stephen A. Kent


This is not, by far, a complete list. My personal list is around a hundred, and I'll bet there are nearly a thousand people who have made substantial unselfish contributions to this fight at personal risk, and they didn't go around bragging about it, either. Then there are the thousands of protestors and all the Anons who still remain anonymous. These people just struck me as particularly compassionate and dedicated against the abuses of Scn and are persons I have been fortunate to have some personal dealings with as well.

To hell with the braggarts. Question those who blow their own horns. I have my own heroes because of what I've seen them actually do.

Many thanks to you and all the ones that were not named, as well. You know who you are.

Sheila

with all due respect to you, and your list, there is an older (meaning that you and your generation are younger) list for those of us, who, maybe left in the 70s or 80s, and another list for those, who left in the 50s and 60s.

My list includes, but is not limited to, John McMaster, Jack Horner, Paulette Cooper, Allan Kapular, Alan Walter, Mike and Kima Douglas.

here is a very sane talk by John McMaster, at the Ambassador Hotel in La La Land in 1970.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43776862/Ambasador Hotel Lectures/70-09-20=JM 1 Freedom.mp3

it is 58 minutes long

 

[Panda Termint]

As long as there has been Dianetics and Scientology, there have been people leaving Dianetics and Scientology and speaking out against it. That list is long!

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Gerry Armstong
Larry Wollersheim
Hanna & Jerry Whitfield
Dennis Erlich
Nibs - LRH Jr.
David Mayo

So many did so much, too.

Ida !

My hat is off to so many !

 

[Claire Swazey]

Gerry Armstong
Larry Wollersheim
Hanna & Jerry Whitfield
Dennis Erlich
Nibs - LRH Jr.
David Mayo

So many did so much, too.

Ida !

My hat is off to so many !

I don't have any heroes. Been there, done that.

But plenty of people I admire and whom I deem helpful, some named in this thread, some not.

I also think that everyone has something to say and contribute. And if someone tells me that they hight So and So and they did such and such, I pretty much go with it cuz the person's another contributor and if they aren't asking for anything, then I have no risks to take since I don't do hero worship and I'm allergic to pundits (as well as to Benadryl, too, I found out today.).

 

[La La Lou Lou]

with all due respect to you, and your list, there is an older (meaning that you and your generation are younger) list for those of us, who, maybe left in the 70s or 80s, and another list for those, who left in the 50s and 60s.

My list includes, but is not limited to, John McMaster, Jack Horner, Paulette Cooper, Allan Kapular, Alan Walter, Mike and Kima Douglas.

here is a very sane talk by John McMaster, at the Ambassador Hotel in La La Land in 1970.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43776862/Ambasador Hotel Lectures/70-09-20=JM 1 Freedom.mp3

it is 58 minutes long

I haven't listened yet to the speech, but what you've just said reminded me of a question that's been going round my head. Wasn't scn banned in Australia way back and some of the guys behind that fight must have been big big heroes.

 

[Auditor's Toad]

I don't have any heroes. Been there, done that.

But plenty of people I admire and whom I deem helpful, some named in this thread, some not.

I also think that everyone has something to say and contribute. And if someone tells me that they hight So and So and they did such and such, I pretty much go with it cuz the person's another contributor and if they aren't asking for anything, then I have no risks to take since I don't do hero worship and I'm allergic to pundits (as well as to Benadryl, too, I found out today.).

You may not have heros. You are certainly entitled to that.

I do have heros & heroines that over the years have put themselves at risk to fight the "church" of scientology, it's front groups, PIs, infiltrators, spies, & goon squads.

Sometimes their livelyhood & families were endangered, too.

Some are still there, doing that.

 

[Claire Swazey]

AT, I don't ever make anyone a hero in my eyes. But respect and value? Yep!

 

[DoneDeal]

This isn't one of those make wrong things on what people consider important...lol...honest.

But when I think I have it tough...what I compare myself too is these guys....

The Soldiers who had to get out of the troop carriers at the various beaches in France, and the Marines who had to do Island landings in the Pacific, many times..

These guy's had to somehow, while being easy targets for the entrenched enemy, get through the water and get on the land...and overcome and win....and they did.

I just try to imagine what those day's were like...and then compare it to anything I've ever seen. Talk about being certain your last day has arrived. But to do it anyway. Wow.

lol...I'm sure there are tons of stories along those lines throughout history, but I think of those guys.

Those guy's are heroes.

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

Whether one considers these folks heros or not, for me they certainly restore my faith in human beings.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[BunnySkull]

Hey, I got an easy one. I want to add a name to the other list:

bullshit self-promoters who take credit for any and everything regardless of their actual deeds and never stop bragging about it and patting themselves on the back (in between reminding people to donate.)

Marty Rathbun

Early on when I noticed Marty taking credit for pretty much the entire scene that Anons created and then turned around and brag "anonymous fears him as their biggest threat" to CoS reps, I realized he moved to Texas because it was the only state with enough land mass for his ego and he desperately needs a audience of adoring fans felating him 24/7. (Anybody with a tiny bit of class would never let half of those embarrassing ass kissing posts through, nevermind the poems, and don't get me started on the censoring of any real constructive criticism.)

In 2009 I kept waiting for Marty to give a nod to anons and admit their activism finally made safe for him and others to start speaking out, but I now know Marty could never give any credit to others like that, esp non-Hubbard lovers. As far as Marty is concerned there is only one other person on his level, Hubbard. Sad thing is he may be right, but even I think Marty can't be that bad.

(I do find it very interesting that within 1 year of the birth of anonymous protests, you suddenly had the largest number of Ex-SO execs start coming forward and speaking. In the past you had maybe one to two SO-Execs come forward every 5 to 10 years, the last notables being thanks to the LM Trust. But after anonymous we've had a huge wave of high level Execs not only leave, not only speak publicly, but actually take on and fight the CoS. It's impressive and they do deserve credit.)

 

[Gottabrain]

As long as there has been Dianetics and Scientology, there have been people leaving Dianetics and Scientology and speaking out against it. That list is long!

YES!

Gerry Armstong
Larry Wollersheim
Hanna & Jerry Whitfield
Dennis Erlich
Nibs - LRH Jr.
David Mayo

So many did so much, too.

Ida !

My hat is off to so many !

Yep, I'd put all of them on the hero list, too. I'd add Aaron Saxton as well, because he left everything at the drop of a hat to speak out against the abuses and still does this. And Feral! And the wonderful media reporters we have had in Aus and other areas! And so many others who wish to remain Anonymous - people right here on this Board who have rescued others from the cult, talked people out of joining Scn, provided support for them and their families (jobs, money, good advice, counseling, education) and provided shelter for those leaving over many, many years.

Heroes aren't perfect. I've been known to get in some really heated arguments with some of the people I named. That doesn't change the fact they've done terrific things and I love and admire them for that. They all have certain qualities to them - i.e., courage, humanity - and a willingness to sacrifice personal things to do what is right. They aren't all leaders or good public speakers, but their lives are centered around making a better quality of life around them, whether it's ridding the world of a known evil, spreading the truth or taking on the enemy in court or elsewhere. I look up to people like this for those qualities and that's what makes them heroes to me. There are always those who are better than me in different ways and there is a hero in all of us.

I do have heros & heroines that over the years have put themselves at risk to fight the "church" of scientology, it's front groups, PIs, infiltrators, spies, & goon squads.

Sometimes their livelyhood & families were endangered, too.

Some are still there, doing that.

This isn't one of those make wrong things on what people consider important...lol...honest.

But when I think I have it tough...what I compare myself too is these guys....

The Soldiers who had to get out of the troop carriers at the various beaches in France, and the Marines who had to do Island landings in the Pacific, many times..

These guy's had to somehow, while being easy targets for the entrenched enemy, get through the water and get on the land...and overcome and win....and they did.

I just try to imagine what those day's were like...and then compare it to anything I've ever seen. Talk about being certain your last day has arrived. But to do it anyway. Wow.

lol...I'm sure there are tons of stories along those lines throughout history, but I think of those guys.

Those guy's are heroes.

Me, too. That's the ultimate example of courage and dedication. And the nurses who were out on the field, the volunteers and all the other people behind the scenes who risked their lives, families, reputations to save the victims of wars - many died that way and weren't even officially acknowledged.

Whether one considers these folks heros or not, for me they certainly restore my faith in human beings.

The Anabaptist Jacques

Me too! I see so much good in mankind through these people, that I know there is hope. Heaps of it. We fight our evil, the evil of Scientology - and around the world, others are fighting other evils and restoring peace, honour, dignity and sanity to the world.

 

[Gottabrain]

Hey, I got an easy one. I want to add a name to the other list:

bullshit self-promoters who take credit for any and everything regardless of their actual deeds and never stop bragging about it and patting themselves on the back (in between reminding people to donate.)

Marty Rathbun

Early on when I noticed Marty taking credit for pretty much the entire scene that Anons created ...

In 2009 I kept waiting for Marty to give a nod to anons and admit their activism finally made safe for him and others to start speaking out, but I now know Marty could never give any credit to others like that, esp non-Hubbard lovers. As far as Marty is concerned there is only one other person on his level, Hubbard. Sad thing is he may be right, but even I think Marty can't be that bad.

(I do find it very interesting that within 1 year of the birth of anonymous protests, you suddenly had the largest number of Ex-SO execs start coming forward and speaking. In the past you had maybe one to two SO-Execs come forward every 5 to 10 years, the last notables being thanks to the LM Trust. But after anonymous we've had a huge wave of high level Execs not only leave, not only speak publicly, but actually take on and fight the CoS. It's impressive and they do deserve credit.)

I agree with you. Anonymous is responsible for the complete turnaround here. THEY got the media going through the Internet and mags, the huge protests, the research, the legal and other assistance. THEY made Scientology a dirty word. Most of us ex's came out publicly because they made it safe to do so and made us aware that we should. Then came the huge push of ex's, starting with little websites like exscn once was - dedicated people like Michelle and others around the world, working day and night to get legislation through, tesitmonies, taking huge risks. WOW.

And the ones before them. I always loved that early protest vid of Jesse Prince with just one other protester in LA.

And all of these sort of shamed me, because I should have come forward many years ago. Yet all of them - the Anons and ex's - had the grace to never admonish or shame me or anyone else for not coming forward to help sooner. They understood and accepted the huge burden without thinking less of anyone. Another WOW.

Anonymous. It always blows my mind that so many thousands of people would care so much about us and our rights to go to so much trouble for strangers. It's enough to make a person believe in God. It certainly made me believe in the higher qualities of mankind. Talk about reaching out and touching someone! Lol!

 

[Magoo]

Gottabrain.......thank you for this thread.
For many, many years I have been basically against lists....
I think I was against lists from before I ever got into Scientology,
as I was raised by parents (thankfully) who were strong
believers in INCLUSION vs Exclusion.

I know it wasn't your intention to exclude anyone---and I mean that.
However, having been a part of the "Critic movement" for 11 years...
I've watched it evolved. I've realized it honesty DOES "take a village"

And Ok, you may not be a Fan of Hillary Clinton, but that line (It takes
a village) Is about the town I grew up in: Park Ridge, Il. She was in my Graduating class (had I stayed there to Graduate--we moved so I graduated somewhere else) and she and I are in
a Class Counsel Photo. Too funny, eh?

Mainly, I know "the critics"....there are TONS of people whose names never
come up----but I know things they've done and had they not done *that*...some of the bigger things wouldn't have gotten done.

No one on those lists would be there TODAY____had it not been for other
people supporting them, creating a space like this to discuss at, Anonymous---good Gawd, the entire game changed with them. EVERYONE
counts, to me. You, and You, and You!

I know many people don't like Marty---but I'll tell ya what, and I may be
boo'd out of here, but this is what I KNOW to be true: Now.....thanks to all the people before (including X's, Critics and Anonymous) Prior to Marty's Blog, it took 1--2 years to get someone out of C of $, usually 3-5 years, if ever, for them to speak out. Now thanks to ALL.....people have popped out as fast as 24 hours (they told me) and spoke out.

Again...........many, many people helped build the road these newer people walk on. I NEVER forget that MANY people ...some people don't even know their names----left years before the Net, and left all alone. One KEY person--I always remind, "I would not be able to do what I do, had you and others not started building this road---so many years ago". He ALWAYS gets tears in his eyes...I think he's spent so many years without anyone even saying "Thank you".

Never forget each other. We're here because of each other. Not just those on the list----because of ALL here and many not here, too. And even some who fought for years and then died. Activists just from my time, who helped me and are now gone are: Ida Camburn, Bob Minton, Alan Walter, Robert Vaughn Young. Bless all their hearts. I miss them, but they left their mark---which will help others, forever.

I love you ALL

Tory/Magoo

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

...


In a darkly ironic way, the person who has singlehandedly generated more disrepute & destruction to L Ron Hubbard, his con games and the fraudulent monstrosity of Scientology is.....David Miscavich.

It actually made me laugh when I just gave pause to think that Scientologists are so incredibly stupid that they actually worship the messiah (Miscavich) who is quietly disposing of their beloved God (Hubbard) without sorrow.

Now that has to be the dumbest group of people on planet earth.

 

[exdivsix]

Hey, I got an easy one. I want to add a name to the other list:

bullshit self-promoters who take credit for any and everything regardless of their actual deeds and never stop bragging about it and patting themselves on the back (in between reminding people to donate.)

Marty Rathbun

Early on when I noticed Marty taking credit for pretty much the entire scene that Anons created and then turned around and brag "anonymous fears him as their biggest threat" to CoS reps, I realized he moved to Texas because it was the only state with enough land mass for his ego and he desperately needs a audience of adoring fans felating him 24/7. (Anybody with a tiny bit of class would never let half of those embarrassing ass kissing posts through, nevermind the poems, and don't get me started on the censoring of any real constructive criticism.)

In 2009 I kept waiting for Marty to give a nod to anons and admit their activism finally made safe for him and others to start speaking out, but I now know Marty could never give any credit to others like that, esp non-Hubbard lovers. As far as Marty is concerned there is only one other person on his level, Hubbard. Sad thing is he may be right, but even I think Marty can't be that bad.

(I do find it very interesting that within 1 year of the birth of anonymous protests, you suddenly had the largest number of Ex-SO execs start coming forward and speaking. In the past you had maybe one to two SO-Execs come forward every 5 to 10 years, the last notables being thanks to the LM Trust. But after anonymous we've had a huge wave of high level Execs not only leave, not only speak publicly, but actually take on and fight the CoS. It's impressive and they do deserve credit.)

Interesting, I really never got that out of Rathbun. Where did Marty take credit for the scene Anons created? If I recall correctly Marty's quote of Anons fearing him the most, was due to 1 phone call, so yes I agree that it was overblown that he said that, but I also remember the day he proclaimed it, and if I remember correctly it was a fairly stressful day, trying to help a blown SO member, and many Scientologists had descended onto his hometown, so its pretty understandable in my view that he would say something like that, maybe you would have handled the situation with utter perfection, as I am sure you have never misspoken. I remember he wrote a post earlier in the year he praised Anons, and also when he went to Germany praising the Anons there. Personally I really don't care for the Anon movement. In fact I think what they are doing against the US govt. is treasonous, and aimed at making this country less secure, and less safe.
Perhaps I have not followed things closely, but when has Marty asked for donations? As far as I can tell he asked for donations for Montalvo's defense, and also Debbie Cooks defense, he does have a donate button, but this board has one also. I get daily emails begging for money from the Democratic and Republican party, among other things, so Marty's couple times of asking for something really doesn't bother me. Maybe the folks he audits, he asks for donations, but as far as I can tell, he doesn't really bring money up when you visit him. You also have interesting ideas on how Rathbun should moderate his blog, he should only allow things through that are critical of him and LRH, and anything that mentions anything positive, or what you think is "ass kissing" he shouldn't allow through.
Anyway, on this board, Marty seems to suck no matter how hard he tries, or doesn't try. So I will continue to enjoy reading about how evil a 50 something chain smoker, with about 300 followers give or take a few is on a mission to destroy the world, and the lives of so many innocent people.
But to get back to the original post, my heroes have nothing to do with taking down Scientology, in fact a few of my heroes looked up to Alestair Crowley(John Lennon, Jim Morrison).

 

[Gottabrain]

I know it wasn't your intention to exclude anyone---and I mean that.

Gawd NO! There are THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS who contributed, now and over the years. Can't list them, so I only listed a few to get the ball rolling. Even my full personal list would be at least hundreds, and that's just the ones that aren't anonymous of the ones that affected me personally the most - I didn't mean to exclude anybody and hope I made that clear.

However, having been a part of the "Critic movement" for 11 years...
I've watched it evolved. I've realized it honesty DOES "take a village"

And Ok, you may not be a Fan of Hillary Clinton, but that line (It takes
a village) Is about the town I grew up in: Park Ridge, Il. She was in my Graduating class (had I stayed there to Graduate--we moved so I graduated somewhere else) and she and I are in a Class Counsel Photo. Too funny, eh?

I always liked the Clintons, until Hillary donated billions to buy stoves for 3rd world countries. The last really good US President was Bill, but I think Hillary was running things. Anyway, I like the saying and Park Ridge is gorgeous. I love the way the trees line up and touch each other in the middle of the street, especially in the Fall. TOO cool you have a photo together with Hillary!

Mainly, I know "the critics"....there are TONS of people whose names never
come up----but I know things they've done and had they not done *that*...some of the bigger things wouldn't have gotten done.

No one on those lists would be there TODAY____had it not been for other people supporting them, creating a space like this to discuss at...

YES!

Anonymous---good Gawd, the entire game changed with them.

IT SURE DID!!

EVERYONE counts, to me. You, and You, and You!

Magoo, you're absolutely right. There sure are a lot of people out here helping. Thousands. Don't you just love it? THANK YOU EVERYONE!! I'm really sorry we can't put all your names on here and some are anonymous, but it takes a village, just as Magoo says. Cheers!!

I know many people don't like Marty---but I'll tell ya what, and I may be boo'd out of here, but this is what I KNOW to be true: Now.....thanks to all the people before (including X's, Critics and Anonymous) Prior to Marty's Blog, it took 1--2 years to get someone out of C of $, usually 3-5 years, if ever, for them to speak out. Now thanks to ALL.....people have popped out as fast as 24 hours (they told me) and spoke out.

Again...........many, many people helped build the road these newer people walk on. I NEVER forget that MANY people ...some people don't even know their names----left years before the Net, and left all alone. One KEY person--I always remind, "I would not be able to do what I do, had you and others not started building this road---so many years ago". He ALWAYS gets tears in his eyes...I think he's spent so many years without anyone even saying "Thank you".

Never forget each other. We're here because of each other. Not just those on the list----because of ALL here and many not here, too. And even some who fought for years and then died. Activists just from my time, who helped me and are now gone are: Ida Camburn, Bob Minton, Alan Walter, Robert Vaughn Young. Bless all their hearts. I miss them, but they left their mark---which will help others, forever.

I love you ALL

Tory/Magoo

Thank you, Bob Minton. Bless you. And Alan Walter, Robert Vaughn Young and all the others who are no longer with us but left their mark.

BOB MINTON




I love you too, Tory. You are beautiful. You said it all. Thanks for that.

 

[Auditor's Toad]

<snip>
Anyway, on this board, Marty seems to suck no matter how hard he tries, or doesn't try. So I will continue to enjoy reading about how evil a 50 something chain smoker, with about 300 followers give or take a few is on a mission to destroy the world, and the lives of so many innocent people.
<snip>

Marty didn't become an asshole, he was an asshole for a long time before he left.

Anyway, " 300 followers give or take a few " is hilarous !

Do you really believe Marty has that many followers ?

 

[Claire Swazey]

Ah, yes, but it's de rigeur to bash Maaaartay here. A zillion derails and screechfests later, Ems had to create a MartyWorld sub forum.

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Ah, yes, but it's de rigeur to bash Maaaartay here. A zillion derails and screechfests later, Ems had to create a MartyWorld sub forum.

Oh, gosh, golly....maybe Marty was the good guy all along and no one should have ever bashed him ?

Well, he was funny with the garden hose squirting the SB crew. That was pretty funny.
I give him a point for that.