The State of Clear

[Carmel]

Methinks we've traveled pretty far afield from the subject of the State of Clear. I guess HE&R fit in as departures from this postulated ideal state.

Methinks and I guess too

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Speaking of buddhist writings, what is your take on the buddhist text that talks of metteyah, a man with red hair, 2,000 years later, etc.?

It's interesting. I know some Scn'ists who think LRH was definitely Buddha. I myself don't have an opinion on it. I know that he said he worked on Scn for many lifetimes and I'm positive that's true, but whether the ol' man was actually Buddha or not, well, even Hubbard could be subject to dub-in.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Good for you.

That's usually called "professional behaviour". However, one doesn't need to know anything about Scientology to know this and behave accordingly.

Sure. But I definitely had Scn admin in mind when I wrote the email and it did help. I did learn most of what I know in business from working in non Scn companies but I have also used Scn policies. It's a marriage made in heaven. :wink2:

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Your whole operating basis since reappearing here at ESMB yesterday has been to argue one point of view very aggressively. And it started, in my opinion, with Darts posts clarifying cicumstances surrounding Power Processing.

So it is not a matter of you "saying your reality and integrity rely on denying others theirs", but of your actions showing that you must be right.

For me personally, I don't believe in the state of Clear, as pushed by Scientology and Scientologists. Because I have never seen it to be real. That is my reality. Your is obviously different. Fine, got it. Understood. Do you need to argue everyone, on every post and point about it. How right do you have to be?

Why can't you just "BE" Clear, rather having to constantly reassert to everyone that you are Clear.

Neo

And why not let people be people? We all have our own various ways of talking to others, airing our views and responding to things that are said. I mean, you're arguing, too, right?

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Neo I think the question that needs to be asked here is - why would OSA want THIS thread hijacked?

I think it's not a good idea to suggest that people on a given thread are or might be OSA. There are plenty of threads that meander, get diverted, derailed, whatever by long time contributors. We're basically like cats someone is trying to herd. We mill around, meander, etc.

 

[Martini]

It's interesting. I know some Scn'ists who think LRH was definitely Buddha. I myself don't have an opinion on it. I know that he said he worked on Scn for many lifetimes and I'm positive that's true, but whether the ol' man was actually Buddha or not, well, even Hubbard could be subject to dub-in.

Yeah I mainly find the Buddhist text more notable. It's quite a prediction. Is it true there are Buddhist sects that acknowledge LRH as metteyah? I think I heard that somewhere.

 

[uniquemand]

I've never heard of such a Buddhist sect. Most Buddhists I have known have never heard of Scientology, nevermind Hubbard. Most of them would probably agree with the definition of Clear as an ability to have (although probably laugh at such a "state"), but consider attachment to that "State" as just as foolish as attachment to a car. Clear is something you do, not something you have.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Agreed. I think that's CofS propaganda. A few times they've had Hindu and Buddhist priests or monks come out as some ecumenical thing. (or PR thing,really.) This story may be from something like that.

 

[Lovesnightsky]

I missed the "HE&R" subargument???? what the fuck!!!

Well, just for the record, I agree with Ceedia on this one with regard the definition and the use of it, she used it correctly.
And I also agree with Pixi in that yes it definitely used wrongly and to bully people... but not by Ceedia.

And I would go further to say that not all behaviour and show of emotion is acceptable in my house when my kids are around. I had one friend who decided to have an emotional fit in front of my kids, I grabbed her by the collar and dragged/carried her out of my house and told her if she ever did that again... well, she'd be sorry. She turned a new leaf that day and started her way to recovery from 20 years of depression.
And if my kids throw a temper tantrum in the supermarket I leave the groceries, pick them off the floor, put them in the car, take them home and put them in the naughty corner and I tell them if they ever want to go with mommy to the grocery store again, they will never, ever do that again. It's worked a treat with all my kids.

With regard Buddhism and scientology. The early tech did have a lot of buddhist research on them, some of the TRs for one were based on buddhist practices. LRH probably went into a buddhist valance and decided he had to be a messiah there of some kind too.

No. There are no buddhist sects that acknowledge scientology or lrh, or red haired messiahs, in any way or form in their doctrines or predictions.

The state of Clear is a scientology speak and definition, no matter how undefined it is. When I was on staff, the cog could not be accepted unless it was accompanied with the pc stating that there was nothing left to run, nothing more available, it was all gone and never was there in the first place.

 

[Martini]

Does anyone know where I could read the orginal text from Buddha writings 2,000 years ago that predicts mettaya and the red hair, and that he would appear 2,000 years later?

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Yes, but why did they leave? Were they involved in a bad ethics cycle or not? If I'm wrong on that observation, let's hear it. Is there a poll or summary somewhere? It's just what I've observed.

ABSOLUTELY!

The E. O. tried to convince me I was wrong for wanting to route out! Sounds like a bad ethics cycle to me!

I agree with your point. Many people seem to confuse "bad ethics cycle" with "unethical individual". The one being unethical isn't necessarily the one who was "routed to ethics".


Mark A. Baker

 

[Mark A. Baker]

I believe hubbard claimed to BE buddha.... and not that it was an implant.

Although regarding christianity he did say that much of it was based on the R6 implant.

Maitreya, as I recall. Still, a bit megalomaniacal.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Mark A. Baker]

The freezone is a perfect environment for someone who likes the tech and philosophy. Where in the freezone you would fit in I cannot say. I think you could fit into the pursit die hard organizations really well.

Hmm, LNS, I doubt it. Maybe some of the "purists" but not the "die hards".

Martini has an openness of perspective that the real die hards don't show much tolerance for. Fortunately they tend to be a tiny minority, albeit a LOUD & disruptive one.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Panda Termint]

Does anyone know where I could read the orginal text from Buddha writings 2,000 years ago that predicts mettaya and the red hair, and that he would appear 2,000 years later?

These "predictions" are most likely to be found in the mental-mass quagmire that passed itself off as L Ron Hubbard, they used to be filed just to the left of the Xenu section.
As to the whereabouts of this "original text", it'll probably be rediscovered under a rock somewhere, long before your amends project is completed.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

The term "Clear" is definitely a Scn term. However, the wish to be free or clear of aberration and human misery is not unique to Scn. The more I read of Buddhism, the more of it I see in Scn. Obviously because LRH borrowed heavily from Buddhism. He indicated that he'd done so, but, IMO, not the extent.

Personally I consider that most of the parallels between Buddhism & the subject of scientology arise because they actually have similar objectives.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Speaking of buddhist writings, what is your take on the buddhist text that talks of metteyah, a man with red hair, 2,000 years later, etc.?

They don't actually speak of red-hair. They mention brightness, light, or flames about the head & face. Flames about the head is common Buddhist & South Asian imagery used to denote "illuminated beings".


Mark A. Baker

 

[Mark A. Baker]

LOL!!! So this is now a 'scientology technology forum'? :confused2: Geez, and here I was thinking it was an 'ex' scientology forum.

Well, Pix, since the Co$ doesn't actually use standard tech, you have to be an "ex" before you can talk about it.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Pixie]

Well, Pix, since the Co$ doesn't actually use standard tech, you have to be an "ex" before you can talk about it.


Mark A. Baker

Good one Mark!

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Does anyone know where I could read the orginal text from Buddha writings 2,000 years ago that predicts mettaya and the red hair, and that he would appear 2,000 years later?

There are numerous stories about various companions of Gautama Siddhartha and their teachings & histories in the various Buddhist traditions. Maitreya, aka Metteya, was according to some of the Mahayana schools one of the early disciples who adopted the "Bodhisattva Vow" and promised to return to "free all beings". These stories are rather like the catholic "lives of the saints" or chinese tales of the Immortals. If interested, go check out the Buddhism section of your local bookstore.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Soul of Ginnungagab]

...snipped...

"One of the patterns I've noticed since being out and perusing the forums is this:

1) Person left Scientology because of some bad ethics cycle, etc. NOT because the tech didn't work.
2) Person then reads all the black p.r. on the net.
3) Person invalidates all their gains from auditing and training.
4) Person then absolves themselves of it ever having worked, and joins the fashionable crowd of people calling it all a hoax and scam."

...snipped...

Here are some comments on the numbers 1-4:

1) It is my impression that people's stories, under what circumstances they left, can be quite different. Anyway, if all that was wrong was that a person experienced a bad ethics cycle I think he would get over it and stay. But if that cycle was the last straw after years of encountering out points it would be a different matter.

2) Person's can probably read a lot of both white and black pr (and gray pr too!). The result will be that they are exposed to a lot of viewpoints and aspects and that will be exciting, scary sometimes, relaxing other times, maybe even boring now and then, and they could very well blow a lot of charge. It will work as a process in a lot of cases, because it is in fact processing (note that I am applying the terms "process" and "processing" the scientologeese way here. One of the aims of processing is to improve a person's ability to confront what he is and where he is, and he will most likely make a lot of realizations in that regard when doing the above).

3) and 4) When people leave the church they first of all need to sort out their life. It will take time to get it all settled, but I guess that they will know that it was their wins which got them hooked. Without those wins there would never have been something to hook them. Some dismiss it all though. Most people will probably have a different view of the whole thing after some years have gone.