The State of Clear

[Martini]

Let me try a definition, this sounds interesting...


Clear: a being who is aware he mocks up his reactive bank, but still might occasionally do so. Generally in better shape than he was before, as the compulsion to mock it up has been handled. Thus a lot of misplaced feelings, intentions, somatics and non-survival factors are removed. He still has other case phenomena to deal with, but he is much better off than prior to going Clear. He feels, and is, more powerful and intelligent than he was previously. He will find his postulates and thoughts are stronger than before. He can make the needle on an e-meter blowdown just by looking at it. His presence will be "felt" more by others. He can be quite intimidating. Is capable of much more achievement than previously.

 

[Smitty]

Here is a definition of Clear: A delusion and/or fraudulent ploy of L. Ron Hubbard designed to procure customers for his racketeering business venture that masquarades as a church.

 

[Veda]

Of course, per the "Tech," this "Clear" now is in the Hubbardian "no interference zone," and is "at risk" until he completes "OT 3," and probably "NOTs."

The Scientology Bridge - over-all - is a failure. It doesn't produce Clears or OTs, and too often produces sick, depressed, and sometimes mentally ill people - or worse - people corrupted by having happily handed over their minds to "Hubbard Guidance." What they are left with is a mission to PR, spin, or bullshit any way they can, the defective and/or deliberately booby-trapped "Bridge." (The spin and PR vary depending upon the targeted 'public')

The reason for "Doing the [Xenu] Bridge" has become to have done the [XENU] "Bridge."

Martini was afraid to read the links I provided him with - but over a hundred pages of detailed information an analysis was provided.

He is not here to learn, but he may learn anyway - slowly - despite himself.

 

[uniquemand]

You think the state of Clear liberates you from the cycle of birth and death????

I don't think so.

I didn't realize there was a cycle of birth and death. I've never heard of anyone being able to prove that they had ever lived before in any way, shape, or form. Some have claimed it, but that's just PR to sell the religion and or viewpoint, there is no supporting evidence.

 

[degraded being]

How about this definition.
A "being" who has paid the money and done the routine and feels good. He feels that he can now get on and enjoy life. Until he finds out he has christ knows (or xenu knows)
how many BTs stuck to him. And that he is actually totally effect of the whole freakin universe and that he is in an infinitely more vulnerable situation than he ever was before (that he know about). And a being who is now fully primed to move from cash-small-creature to huge ca$h cow.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

To me, the state of Clear is an ideal and one that has not been truly achieved. I've seen Scn'ists do very well with auditing and really make positive gains, but what I haven't seen are real clears and stable OTs.

 

[Lovesnightsky]

I didn't realize there was a cycle of birth and death. I've never heard of anyone being able to prove that they had ever lived before in any way, shape, or form. Some have claimed it, but that's just PR to sell the religion and or viewpoint, there is no supporting evidence.

Realizing it takes a lot of spiritual work and is part of becoming free of the cycle of birth and death, albeit not the only part. Maybe it will happen in your next lifetime

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Realizing it takes a lot of spiritual work and is part of becoming free of the cycle of birth and death, albeit not the only part. Maybe it will happen in your next lifetime

Could be true LNS, the trouble is it's difficult to go down that road without immediately thinking "I am going to be free of the cycle of birth and death", and you thus create a timeself - someone who you hope's going to be free eventually - which isn't the real you and (according to the guy in my sig) is the source of your unhappiness.

Vernon used to say that we're free right now, we just block our awareness of it with thinking.

 

[Lovesnightsky]

Could be true LNS, the trouble is it's difficult to go down that road without immediately thinking "I am going to be free of the cycle of birth and death", and you thus create a timeself - someone who you hope's going to be free eventually - which isn't the real you and (according to the guy in my sig) is the source of your unhappiness.

Vernon used to say that we're free right now, we just block our awareness of it with thinking.

Part of the discovery.

 

[degraded being]

Realizing it takes a lot of spiritual work and is part of becoming free of the cycle of birth and death, albeit not the only part. Maybe it will happen in your next lifetime

Realizing that there is no cycle of birth and death - in the sense of personal re-birth is a very difficult task for people. They don't realize that full acceptance of what they are, including their mortality, makes living forever (rebirth), irrelevant and therefore not worth craving for or clinging to. The part that can conceivably live for ever is the spiritual part or essence or soul - but all those parts are ideas only and they will cease to exist when the person who generates them ceases to exist.

"But I don't like that" and all the ideas it generates -to avoid it (mortality) are just more ideas. And so the cycle of birth and death continues, -in the minds of people and liberating themselves from this (set of ideas about) the cycle of birth and death will get them off that merry-go-round.

 

[Martini]

It's been said that the people most afraid of bad karma in their next life are the big promoters of mortality and no future life whatsoever....

 

[degraded being]

It's been said that the people most afraid of bad karma in their next life are the big promoters of mortality and no future life whatsoever....

Lots have things have been said.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Realizing that there is no cycle of birth and death - in the sense of personal re-birth is a very difficult task for people. They don't realize that full acceptance of what they are, including their mortality, makes living forever (rebirth), irrelevant and therefore not worth craving for or clinging to. The part that can conceivably live for ever is the spiritual part or essence or soul - but all those parts are ideas only and they will cease to exist when the person who generates them ceases to exist.

"But I don't like that" and all the ideas it generates -to avoid it (mortality) are just more ideas. And so the cycle of birth and death continues, -in the minds of people and liberating themselves from this (set of ideas about) the cycle of birth and death will get them off that merry-go-round.

From what I've read (in Bo Lozoff and other people), what keeps us reincarnating is all the viewpoints we're unwilling to adopt. Saying, for example; "I couldn't stand to be a ---- (fill in the blanks) means you'll set up your next life as a ----, in order to learn compassion for all people.

If this is true (and I wouldn't swear that it was) it explains why so many people struggle with self-esteem and self-worth issues, because they're being now what they at one time in their past very much didn't want to be.

 

[degraded being]

From what I've read (in Bo Lozoff and other people), what keeps us reincarnating is all the viewpoints we're unwilling to adopt. Saying, for example; "I couldn't stand to be a ---- (fill in the blanks) means you'll set up your next life as a ----, in order to learn compassion for all people.

If this is true (and I wouldn't swear that it was) it explains why so many people struggle with self-esteem and self-worth issues, because they're being now what they at one time in their past very much didn't want to be.

Good point, especially if you consider issues about chakras.
But really to get the whole picture the Akashic Records would need to be considered. I wonder too, whether one or two Hindu deities would add to the discussion. Ganesh, as a remover of obstacles, could perhaps be perceived as a remover of Karma - or simply the life-death-rebirth cycle.
Some people seem to think that just meditating will do the job, but as you have said they may have, (we can't say really), lots of identity issues to deal with that meditation alone would not be sufficient for. By the way have you tried Idenics? That is supposed to deal with identities. You were going to try it weren't you? Did you ever get round to that? You can get a free session with Mike Goldstien and Vinnie does it to (but I think he's charging for it now). In the freezone there are all sorts of ways scientology technology could be tailored (squirelled
according to purists) to your own tastes regarding spiritual beliefs. Why not, if we are free of the COS, have auditing combined with say, Pure Land School sect Buddhism. It could give greater wins than dogma-based auditing. Not sure if Pure Land School would have enough "punch" on it's own though, or if it would deal with rebirth, but if it did work at least your next life would be in a nice place. But then that's the same as Christianity - well, the method and the goal seem to be.

 

[13heathens]

Clear, Unclear..

The entire issue of what is a Clear struck me as strange while going over the source material - I cheated and looked it up..

A being who no longer has his own reactive mind. (Intro Sci Ethics)

The clear is a person who is not aberrated.. blah blah blah (new slant on life)

A clear is, by definition, one who has had all entheta in his current life converted to theta.. blah blah blah (Science of Survival)

Well, two of the definitions matched so I checked the definition in advanced procedures and axioms and found;

A much understood state of being.

I Thought that definition was the best. If he'd figured it out he would have told people what it was, right?

To me it just reminded me of Socrates talks about Quietude.

I know I'm jumping in right and the end here - read some of the beginning but it's a LONG thread - so I may have missed someone else making this point.. but there were some references in the books I read about people being able to achieve a state of clear without Scientology, but he counters it by saying that it's temporary - implying that in COS Clear is a permanent state.

I can't tell you how hard I laughed when Beghe said he went clear 3 times.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

The entire issue of what is a Clear struck me as strange while going over the source material - I cheated and looked it up..

A being who no longer has his own reactive mind. (Intro Sci Ethics)

The clear is a person who is not aberrated.. blah blah blah (new slant on life)

A clear is, by definition, one who has had all entheta in his current life converted to theta.. blah blah blah (Science of Survival)

Well, two of the definitions matched so I checked the definition in advanced procedures and axioms and found;

A much understood state of being.

I Thought that definition was the best. If he'd figured it out he would have told people what it was, right?

To me it just reminded me of Socrates talks about Quietude.

I know I'm jumping in right and the end here - read some of the beginning but it's a LONG thread - so I may have missed someone else making this point.. but there were some references in the books I read about people being able to achieve a state of clear without Scientology, but he counters it by saying that it's temporary - implying that in COS Clear is a permanent state.

I can't tell you how hard I laughed when Beghe said he went clear 3 times.

My view:

If you try to understand what "clear" is based on all that Hubbard had to say on the subject, you won't.

If you actually get good auditing that enables you to "go clear", then you will. You will also be able to separate the "marketing" from the "reality" and "get" what Hubbard was on about in his inconsistencies on the topic.


Mark A. Baker

 

[13heathens]

My view:
If you actually get good auditing that enables you to "go clear", then you will. You will also be able to separate the "marketing" from the "reality" and "get" what Hubbard was on about in his inconsistencies on the topic.
Mark A. Baker

Quietude, as described by Socrates is a comfortable place where you're at peace. No extremes. It's not pleasure or pain, angst or excited. It's just a good pleasant mellow state.

I guess I was asking if that's what Hubbard was going for when he was trying to explain what "Clear" is, or is it something completely different?

 

[Martini]

My view:

If you try to understand what "clear" is based on all that Hubbard had to say on the subject, you won't.

If you actually get good auditing that enables you to "go clear", then you will. You will also be able to separate the "marketing" from the "reality" and "get" what Hubbard was on about in his inconsistencies on the topic.


Mark A. Baker

solid!

 

[Pierrot]

Quietude, as described by Socrates is a comfortable place where you're at peace. No extremes. It's not pleasure or pain, angst or excited. It's just a good pleasant mellow state.

I guess I was asking if that's what Hubbard was going for when he was trying to explain what "Clear" is, or is it something completely different?

That's called "Release".

 

[13heathens]

That's called "Release".

Cool, thanks! That was another term I was wrestling with while reading the texts.